Has Living In Thailand Made You More Or Less Nationalistic?

[garro]

I have noticed that many posters on ThaiVisa appear very nationalistic in regards to their home countries. I have always believed that travel can broaden your mind and make you more aware of our common humanity. I am far less nationalistic since leaving home in my teens. What is your experience?

[Sunny Valentine]

I always despised any nationalism. It is IMHO one of the main roots of evil in the world, together with religion.

Sunny

[Ulysses G.]

I wasn't crazy about living in the US, but because it is so fashionable to bash it, it has made me realize how much I like Americans in general and how hypocritical many of our detractors are. The US isn't perfect, but we never stop trying.

[garro]

I always despised any nationalism. It is IMHO one of the main roots of evil in the world, together with religion. Sunny

You must have been a very precocious child.

[zorro1]

Less for sure. On a recent trip to Australia I was with a friend and his g/f and i was raving on about Thailand and noticed they were both staring at the floor. When i asked if I was boring them he stared at me coldly and said " we are white people" I guess he was trying to remind me that I'm still an Aussie

Edited April 20, 2008 by zorro1

[Naam]

I have noticed that many posters on ThaiVisa appear very nationalistic in regards to their home countries. I have always believed that travel can broaden your mind and make you more aware of our common humanity. I am far less nationalistic since leaving home in my teens. What is your experience?

i have never been nationalistic but rather realistic. i also don't understand people who are proud of their country but are not able to present any reason why they are proud. is there a reason that i should be proud of my country whose elected government killed millions of innocent people? or should i be proud because "tchermann" technology is sought after worldwide? should americans be nationalistic or proud because their country is the "Greatest Nation on Earth™", is able to bomb (nearly) any nation back to stone age and that they elected a village idiot to be (quote FAUX News) the "Leader of the Free World"?

[RY12]

More nationalistic? of course not! i find those servile, socialist europeans and auzzies clinging to their monarchs in their scruffy little countries quaint and charming. USA #1!!! just kidding

[Dave the Dude]

I have noticed that many posters on ThaiVisa appear very nationalistic in regards to their home countries. I have always believed that travel can broaden your mind and make you more aware of our common humanity. I am far less nationalistic since leaving home in my teens. What is your experience?

i have never been nationalistic but rather realistic. i also don't understand people who are proud of their country but are not able to present any reason why they are proud. is there a reason that i should be proud of my country whose elected government killed millions of innocent people? or should i be proud because "tchermann" technology is sought after worldwide? should americans be nationalistic or proud because their country is the "Greatest Nation on Earth™", is able to bomb (nearly) any nation back to stone age and that they elected a village idiot to be (quote FAUX News) the "Leader of the Free World"?

Good post Dr Naam.

I feel ( and I am including myself BTW) that whatever your nationality is, in leaving your home countries it tends to make you remember 'The good old days' in that country. Expats tend to wish that things were like they were in (add any country) when they themselves were on an UP and things were rosy. Personally, I don't care if anybody 'bashes' my country as ALL countries have there own 'skeletons in the cupboard'

Dave (Very happy in LOS)

[howtoescape]

I have noticed that many posters on ThaiVisa appear very nationalistic in regards to their home countries. I have always believed that travel can broaden your mind and make you more aware of our common humanity. I am far less nationalistic since leaving home in my teens. What is your experience?

Youre not allowed to be proud of being English without being called a Nazi/racist/hooligan etc...... You must have read the stories the other year of local councils taking people to court for having St George's cross flags outside their property during the World Cup.

Not so long ago most English never thought about being nationalists they were just got on with their lives and were never overly aware of such issues.

This British government now teaches school children to be ashamed of our history, for this very reason my friend has to teach his kids the other side of the story, hence creating a nationalistic father and possibly kids.

The English i know are nationalistic only because weve had uncontrolled immigration for god knows how long and have had whatever identity we had diluted and ridiculed, but worse then that many just couldnt care less about the country anymore.

But the government are looking to change all this by making St Georges day a English national holiday to promote Englishness, i and most others wouldnt have a clue when this day is and wouldnt celebrate being English anyway, as there is no need to push nationalism into peoples faces.

Personally i dont think travelling has made me anymore or less nationalist, just made me want to go on holiday more.

PS English are more proud of which part of the country they are from more then anything, it makes for good football rivalry.

Edited April 20, 2008 by howtoescape

[soundman]

No difference.

I didin't care about much going on in Aussie land before & I still don't. Not like that country is under an imminant threat of invasion.

[Jockstar]

I am proud to be Scottish. But i am also gald that i can pretty much live in any country i want. As much as i am proud of being Scottish, i dont want to live there anymore. But thats because i have found other countries can give me more. ie job security, more money, better way of life and far better weather.

[garro]

I am proud to be Scottish. But i am also gald that i can pretty much live in any country i want. As much as i am proud of being Scottish, i dont want to live there anymore. But thats because i have found other countries can give me more. ie job security, more money, better way of life and far better weather.

I am suprrised to hear that you are nationalistic Jockstar.

I always assumed by your name and avtar that you had more of a global spirit.

Edited April 20, 2008 by garro

[toptuan]

Despite Naam's tendency to never miss a chance to bash one particular country (notice how consistent, kinda like a chip on his shoulder?), I do agree with him in one area: I feel I have become more "realistic" living overseas.

On one hand, I've come to realize how little Americans realize they are perceived internationally (warmongers, bullies, gun-toting, etc.). I am dismayed at how little they seem to seek to understand other cultures and acquire other languages.

On the other hand, I have also come to appreciate MORE some of the things I now miss: their generosity (both at home and abroad), community cooperation domestically, freedom of speech & thought, fairness and trust in business, politeness on the highways, and, domestically good balance of freedom of behavior and abiding by the rule of law in our cities and villages.

Edited April 20, 2008 by toptuan

[RY12]

Despite Naam's tendency to never miss a chance to bash one particular country (notice how consistent, kinda like a chip on his shoulder?), I do agree with him in one area: I feel I have become more "realistic" living overseas.

On one hand, I've come to realize how little Americans realize they are perceived internationally (warmongers, bullies, gun-toting, etc.). I am dismayed at how little they seem to seek to understand other cultures and acquire other languages.

On the other hand, I have also come to appreciate MORE some of the things I now miss: their generosity (both at home and abroad), community cooperation domestically, freedom of speech & thought, fairness and trust in business, politeness on the highways, and, domestically good balance of freedom of behavior and abiding by the rule of law in our cities and villages.

I don't think we're really seen as warmongers or bullies, that's just all we hear cause the people that say that stuff are so vocal. I think actually the best characteristic we have out of that list of yours, and what we're known for, is a quickness to sincerity with those around us and practicalness, and a deep-set respect for liberty governed by constitutional rights. Liberal Europeans will go on and on about how they respect liberty or equality more etc. etc., but in reality, it wasn't a generation ago that they were all servile automatons bringing the world into two world wars and subjugating people across the globe with their colonialism. Moreover, their present constitutional governments and politically-correct societies are just modeled after ours, which we had set up 200 years ago. Everyone wants to go to the US to be educated, to wear our clothes, to listen to our music, etc. because the world is turning on the nexus of american leadership. Don't get me wrong, i'm no flag-waiving patriot and i certainly have very little respect for our federal government or most americans for that matter... but i don't want the subtle merits of american society to get lost in the international dialogue. we're not some fat, stupid country that just stumbled into great wealth... there is something to america that is unprecedented in civilization, and deep down, i think the international community knows that.

Edited April 20, 2008 by RY12

[Jingthing]

Living abroad has made me much more nationalistic. I am one of those left wing Americans who when I was at home always felt the US has a fascist government (I still do). But I still love my country (maybe in the abstract sense because I really don't want to live there anymore) so I became more nationalistic here for two reasons: I feel more defined by my nationality here than at home of course, and also because there are so many America bashers here who have no business bashing America (its OK for Americans to criticize America but most of us really do not want to hear it from outsiders). When I realized that America haters still hated me even when I tell them I also hate Bush, that made an impression on me, that the bashers put all of us and our entire country in the same boat, maybe in a sense we all are in the same boat. I am also disgusted that now that the US is in some deep doo doo (yes, largely of our own making) so many non-Americans seems on the verge of dancing in the street about it, well that doesn't sit right with any red blooded American, many who lost relatives liberating Europe from the Nazis.

BTW, I have a feeling I would not have reacted this way if I was from a country that most people like, such as Holland. Costa Rica, or Canada.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Jingthing

[garro]

Despite Naam's tendency to never miss a chance to bash one particular country (notice how consistent, kinda like a chip on his shoulder?), I do agree with him in one area: I feel I have become more "realistic" living overseas.

On one hand, I've come to realize how little Americans realize they are perceived internationally (warmongers, bullies, gun-toting, etc.). I am dismayed at how little they seem to seek to understand other cultures and acquire other languages.

On the other hand, I have also come to appreciate MORE some of the things I now miss: their generosity (both at home and abroad), community cooperation domestically, freedom of speech & thought, fairness and trust in business, politeness on the highways, and, domestically good balance of freedom of behavior and abiding by the rule of law in our cities and villages.

I don't think we're really seen as warmongers or bullies, that's just all we hear cause the people that say that stuff are so vocal. I think actually the best characteristic we have out of that list of yours, and what we're known for, is a quickness to sincerity with those around us and practicalness, and a deep-set respect for liberty governed by constitutional rights. Liberal Europeans will go on and on about how they respect liberty or equality more etc. etc., but in reality, it wasn't a generation ago that they were all servile automatons bringing the world into two world wars and subjugating people across the globe with their colonialism. Moreover, their present constitutional governments and politically-correct societies are just modeled after ours, which we had set up 200 years ago. Everyone wants to go to the US to be educated, to wear our clothes, to listen to our music, etc. because the world is turning on the nexus of american leadership. Don't get me wrong, i'm no flag-waiving patriot and i certainly have very little respect for our federal government or most americans for that matter... but i don't want the subtle merits of american society to get lossed in the international dialogue. we're not some fat, stupid country that just stumbled into great wealth... there is something to america that is unprecedented in civilization, and deep down, i think the international community knows that.

Sorry but I have to completely disagree with you on a number of issues. I admit that many people do go overboard in their criticism of Americans, but I think a lot of this just comes from frustration. Most of the world does not get to vote in the American elections despite being so affected by their policies. I grew up in a country that was always very pro-America, but I have noticed on recent trips home that even the average non-political person views America as a hypocritical bully. I would say that most would not blame this on the American public as a whole but more on their choice of leadership.

I think that your understanding of history is poor. Many European countries were not involved in colonialism, the second world war also involved Japan, and America was also involved in both world wars. In fact, as I remember it, America nuked one of the participating countries. It is also worth remembering that while colonialism was a terrible thing, Americas lively slave trade wasn't much better.

There is a lot to be critical about in regards to Europe, but it is far more liberal than the states and the average European knows far more, and is more concerned about, world affairs - in my experience.

Of course, this is not to say that everything American is bad - not at all. Some of the nicest people I have met have been American.

Edited April 20, 2008 by garro

[Neeranam]

I am proud to be Scottish. But i am also gald that i can pretty much live in any country i want. As much as i am proud of being Scottish, i dont want to live there anymore. But thats because i have found other countries can give me more. ie job security, more money, better way of life and far better weather. :D

I am proud to be Scottish too. I've kinda forgotten about it though. I get very sentimental sometimes. Last week I was at a birthday party in Oz where a piper in full Scottish gear came, playing the northern lights of Aberdeen.

When I was a lad, a tiny wee lad

My mother said to me

Come see the Northern Lights my boy

They' re bright as they can be

She called them the heavenly dancers

Merry dancers in the sky

I'll never forget, that wonderful sight

They made the heav ens bright

The Northern Lights of old Aberdeen

Mean home sweet home to me

The Northern Lights of old Aberdeen

Are what I long to see

I’ve been a wanderer all of my life

Any many a sight I've seen

God speed the day when l' m on my way

To my home in Aberdeen

I've wandered in many far-off lands

And travelled many a mile

I've missed the folk I cherished most

The joy of a friendly smile

It warms up the heart of a wand'rer

The clasp of a welcoming hand

To greet me when, I return

Home to my native land

Chorus

A very strange thing happened regarding the football - I started cheering for Celtic! My Gran would turn in her grave, if she were dead.

[aerosboy]

I'm American served in military US Marines,I have always accepted anyone and I don't think I'm better than someone from another country.

But when I meet Brits, always have this chip on their shoulder.Because of George Bush doesn't make it any easier with the Iraq war.

I'm not proud of that at all, totally against it.You will always meet people who say negative things but it doesn't bother me.

We have free speech but boy say anything bad about an asian country, why don't you go back to your country.

I can take criticism maybe don't like it but will listen.If you ask me the world isn't open minded.

By being outside of the USA, I appreciate being American have freedom of speech wont be killed for protesting.

With women its all about money not love.

If you ask me they expect us to accept them but rarely accept us

you spend you stay mostly alone too cold to be even your friend.

I'm friendly but most Asians aren't only if they are getting something from you.

[LinkPopularity]

well, I'm proud of my people but ashamed of my government (bunch of left-wing cowards)

[Jockstar]

We have free speech but boy say anything bad about an asian country, why don't you go back to your country.

I can take criticism maybe don't like it but will listen.If you ask me the world isn't open minded.

By being outside of the USA, I appreciate being American have freedom of speech wont be killed for protesting.

With women its all about money not love.

If you ask me they expect us to accept them but rarely accept us

you spend you stay mostly alone too cold to be even your friend.

I'm friendly but most Asians aren't only if they are getting something from you.

[garro]

I am proud to be Scottish. But i am also gald that i can pretty much live in any country i want. As much as i am proud of being Scottish, i dont want to live there anymore. But thats because i have found other countries can give me more. ie job security, more money, better way of life and far better weather.

I am proud to be Scottish too. I've kinda forgotten about it though. I get very sentimental sometimes. Last week I was at a birthday party in Oz where a piper in full Scottish gear came, playing the northern lights of Aberdeen.

When I was a lad, a tiny wee lad

My mother said to me

Come see the Northern Lights my boy

They' re bright as they can be

She called them the heavenly dancers

Merry dancers in the sky

I'll never forget, that wonderful sight

They made the heav ens bright

The Northern Lights of old Aberdeen

Mean home sweet home to me

The Northern Lights of old Aberdeen

Are what I long to see

I've been a wanderer all of my life

Any many a sight I've seen

God speed the day when l' m on my way

To my home in Aberdeen

I've wandered in many far-off lands

And travelled many a mile

I've missed the folk I cherished most

The joy of a friendly smile

It warms up the heart of a wand'rer

The clasp of a welcoming hand

To greet me when, I return

Home to my native land

Chorus

A very strange thing happened regarding the football - I started cheering for Celtic! My Gran would turn in her grave, if she were dead.

I actually spent a year in Glasgow. I had no real interest in football, but because they heard my Irish accent I was adopted by Celtic fans. I worked in a bar in the city and wasn't allowed to work if Rangers were playing at home; after a few fans decided that I was a 'mickey bastard'. I found the open bigotry a bit of a shock, but there were some really good people too. I was there in Glasgow's year of culture, and thought Rab C was great.

[egg6447]

same naam, post six. never been nationalistic. homosapien sapien. same everyone else.

[Naam]

Despite Naam's tendency to never miss a chance to bash one particular country (notice how..

Naam has mentioned (perhaps not consistently but quite often) that he considers americans as the most friendly and helpful (albeit rather naive) people he encountered.

[sweetchariot]

I have noticed that many posters on ThaiVisa appear very nationalistic in regards to their home countries. I have always believed that travel can broaden your mind and make you more aware of our common humanity. I am far less nationalistic since leaving home in my teens. What is your experience?

Youre not allowed to be proud of being English without being called a Nazi/racist/hooligan etc...... You must have read the stories the other year of local councils taking people to court for having St George's cross flags outside their property during the World Cup.

Not so long ago most English never thought about being nationalists they were just got on with their lives and were never overly aware of such issues.

This British government now teaches school children to be ashamed of our history, for this very reason my friend has to teach his kids the other side of the story, hence creating a nationalistic father and possibly kids.

The English i know are nationalistic only because weve had uncontrolled immigration for god knows how long and have had whatever identity we had diluted and ridiculed, but worse then that many just couldnt care less about the country anymore.

But the government are looking to change all this by making St Georges day a English national holiday to promote Englishness, i and most others wouldnt have a clue when this day is and wouldnt celebrate being English anyway, as there is no need to push nationalism into peoples faces.

Personally i dont think travelling has made me anymore or less nationalist, just made me want to go on holiday more.

PS English are more proud of which part of the country they are from more then anything, it makes for good football rivalry.

It's on Wednesday 23rd (my Mum bought me an English calendar for Christmas).

[egg6447]

I don't think we're really seen as warmongers or bullies, that's just all we hear cause the people that say that stuff are so vocal. I think actually the best characteristic we have out of that list of yours, and what we're known for, is a quickness to sincerity with those around us and practicalness, and a deep-set respect for liberty governed by constitutional rights. Liberal Europeans will go on and on about how they respect liberty or equality more etc. etc., but in reality, it wasn't a generation ago that they were all servile automatons bringing the world into two world wars and subjugating people across the globe with their colonialism. Moreover, their present constitutional governments and politically-correct societies are just modeled after ours, which we had set up 200 years ago. Everyone wants to go to the US to be educated, to wear our clothes, to listen to our music, etc. because the world is turning on the nexus of american leadership. Don't get me wrong, i'm no flag-waiving patriot and i certainly have very little respect for our federal government or most americans for that matter... but i don't want the subtle merits of american society to get lost in the international dialogue. we're not some fat, stupid country that just stumbled into great wealth... there is something to america that is unprecedented in civilization, and deep down, i think the international community knows that.

i,m sorry, but only a yank could have writen this. what was that you said about europe modeled on usa. methinks youd better get some education from europe. most of the good that comes out of usa can be refined down to one of the many ethnic groups that go to make up the usa. there is more dislike/hatered demonstrated around the world against usa than any other country in said world. and still yanks say , no they just dont understand us. while i have many yanky friends, as a nation they strike me as , nationalistic to the extreme, blinkered, ignorant and never listen or consider another piont of view. now how bad can it get. usa = ahole of the world. by the way enjoy my hols there.

[jstumbo]

I have definitely become more nationalistic since being on TV.

I find it amusing how any thread about any topic can degrade into US bashing.

Sure, the US is not perfect, far from it. Sure the US could do things differently. But there are a lot of other countries in the world that are worse than the US.

I think the US bashing is partly just jealousy. The US is seen by many as the superpower of the world. People from other countries then want to say, why is it the superpower? Look how bad it is, my country is better. They think their country should be the leader of the world.

I think the reason for many people around the US not knowing much about the rest of the world and not knowing other languages is because we do not need to. English is the default world language. We speak English (although the English might disagree ) so that is not the need to speak another language. People in Europe are used to knowing several languages. They needed to. All of the countries are so close together that you could not help but be introduced to the other languages. Also if a person from Europe wanted to travel the world, they would need to learn several other languages or they could learn English, which is the second language for most of the world. People in the US do not need to travel the world. If you want to go to world class skiing areas, we have them. You want nice sandy beaches and warm weather, we have them. You want tall mountains, we have them. So there is not the need to travel outside the country.

What I really want to know is when are all the EU countries going to lose their seats in the UN? The EU now has a central government, has a common foreign policy, has courts, has everything that a national government has. In reality, the EU is no different from the US in this regards. The US has the central government, and all of the member states, which cannot make rules that are against what the central government says. The central government makes all the rules about foreign policy, has federal courts. The US was setup the same way that the EU is. It was separate states with their own armies that created a federation of states, but the states were still very separate.

We need to start a petition for all member states of the EU to lose any seats they have in any world bodies and have them replaced by a single seat for the EU.

[Beardog]

Despite Naam's tendency to never miss a chance to bash one particular country (notice how consistent, kinda like a chip on his shoulder?), I do agree with him in one area: I feel I have become more "realistic" living overseas.

On one hand, I've come to realize how little Americans realize they are perceived internationally (warmongers, bullies, gun-toting, etc.). I am dismayed at how little they seem to seek to understand other cultures and acquire other languages.

On the other hand, I have also come to appreciate MORE some of the things I now miss: their generosity (both at home and abroad), community cooperation domestically, freedom of speech & thought, fairness and trust in business, politeness on the highways, and, domestically good balance of freedom of behavior and abiding by the rule of law in our cities and villages.

Not entirely accurate as Naam has spent a good many years in the U.S. & his home country & his home country & America have both have had the war mongering syndrome . I am proud of what I represent rather than a nationalist. And I would agree with Naam , My time here in LOS has made me a true realist & being away from the U.S. I can see the reason why the U.S. is losing world favor. No body likes the world cop. Not only that if we were smart we would withdraw support from Iraq rebuild our resources up & get ready for the next wave of attn the U.S. has brought us into.

Collateral damage has got to be the worst words ever contrived.

[madjbs]

I think the US bashing is partly just jealousy. The US is seen by many as the superpower of the world. People from other countries then want to say, why is it the superpower? Look how bad it is, my country is better. They think their country should be the leader of the world.

This excuse always makes me laugh, from my experience it could not be further from the truth. Most countries are not interested in trying to rule the world, the fact that the U.S wants to is what people find so annoying, the rest of the world is quite happy minding their own buisiness.

Edited April 20, 2008 by madjbs

[jstumbo]

To those that would say the US is a war monger... The British and Australians were also in Iraq, the EU is also in Afghanistan. The French were in Vietnam before the US. The rest of the UN was in Korea. The UK and the rest of Europe, except maybe the French , fought in Europe during WWII.

I don't remember reading about any European countries complaining that the US was a war monger during WWII. Sure it is good that the US is a war monger when it saves you asses, but otherwise it is a negative thing.

I think the UK and many of the other countries in Europe made enough mess of things in the Middle East and Africa before the US ever got involved.

[Naam]

Not entirely accurate as Naam has spent a good many years in the U.S. & his home country & his home country & America have both have had the war mongering syndrome . I am proud of what I represent rather than a nationalist. And I would agree with Naam , My time here in LOS has made me a true realist & being away from the U.S. I can see the reason why the U.S. is losing world favor. No body likes the world cop. Not only that if we were smart we would withdraw support from Iraq rebuild our resources up & get ready for the next wave of attn the U.S. has brought us into.

Collateral damage has got to be the worst words ever contrived.

question for Beardog: have you been or do you know any individual U.S. citizen who has been personally accused because of some rubbish some politicians committed? i am convinced your answer is a clear "NO!" and the same goes for me. built a home in the U.S. and during construction period i found out (freedom of information act) that a bunch of my neighbours had names like Goldstein, Rosenbloom, Futterman, etc. was quite apprehensive when we moved in. but did my jewish neighbours blame me for the nazi crimes? NO! we were overwhelmed how warm we were accepted.