ไหว สั่น, สะเทือน, กระดิก

[DavidHouston]

I would like to carve out a new post for this drifting of a prior posting:

David

I was out with a Thai friend the other day in Houston; we went to a camera store where wanted to buy a digital camera, his first. Like most first time users, he pushed the shutter button too sharply causing the camera to move and the pictures not to be sharp (despite the fact that this model had an "anti-shake" feature).

In describing "shake", I used the word สะเทือน and once กระเทือน. He corrected me, gently, and use the word "ไหว", a more accurate and common term. I sure am glad that he gave me this valuable lesson.

Neeranam

สั่น is what I've always used for shake.

I thought that was an interesting comment. It turns out that the meanings of these words are fairly similar, although clearly used i n different contexts. Here are the definitions of three words from the Royal Institute Dictionary and my attempt to translate. I would appreciate any corrections and amplifications:

สั่น ก. ไหวถี่ ๆ เช่น กลัวจนตัวสั่น หนาวจนคางสั่น, ทําให้ไหวถี่ ๆ เช่น สั่นกระดิ่ง สั่นหัว.

Verb. Continuous shaking or vibrating; for example, “so afraid that her whole body shook”; “so cold that his chin shivered”; to cause something to vibrate or shake, for example, “to ring a bell” or “to shake one’s head.”

สะเทือน, สะเทื้อน ก. มีอาการเหมือนไหวหรือสั่นเพราะถูกกระทบกระทั่ง เช่น นั่งรถที่แล่นไปตามทางขรุขระก็รู้สึกสะเทือน เสียงระเบิดทำ ให้บ้านสะเทือน, โดยปริยายหมายความว่า รู้สึกหวั่นไหว เช่น เขาว่าลูกก็สะเทือนไปถึงแม่ ใครจะว่าอย่างไร ๆ ก็ไม่สะเทือน, กระเทือน ก็ว่า.

Verb. To be in a conditions similar to vibrating or shaking due to one being knocked about, for example “when one rides in a car which is driving along a broken and uneven road, one feels all shook up”, “the sound of the explosion caused our home to shake.” By implication the word means to feel shaken and anxious, such as “he criticized his son such that it reflected badly on his mother”, “whatever someone might say, it doesn’t bother me.” The word “กระเทือน” is used in the same manner.

ไหว ก. สั่น, สะเทือน, กระดิก, เช่น ใบไม้ไหว. ว. สามารถทําได้ เช่น เดินไหว สู้ไหว กินไหว.

Verb. Having the same meaning as สั่น, สะเทือน, กระดิก, for example, “the leaves are fluttering (in the wind)” eloquent expression. to be able to accomplish some act, for example, “to be able to walk (after an accident)”, “able to continue to fight”, “able to stomach (a food)”.

ไหว ๆ ว. อาการที่เคลื่อนไหวหรือพลิ้วไปมา เช่น ปลาแหวกว่ายกอบัวอยู่ไหว ๆ ลมพัดธงสะบัดอยู่ไหว ๆ, อาการที่เคลื่อนไหวอย่างเห็นไม่ชัด เช่น เห็น คนร้ายวิ่งหนีเข้าไปในพงหญ้าอยู่ไหว ๆ.

Elegant expression. a condition of movement or turning about, for example, “the fish are swimming around the lotus plants”, “the breeze is blowing the flag out briskly”. A condition of movement which is not clearly visible, for example, “I can vaguely see the terrorists fleeing towards the clumps of dense grass.”

[yoot]

As for taking picture, I would say "ถ้ามือสั่นขณะที่ถ่ายภาพ ภาพที่ได้ก็จะไหว"

[sabaijai]

There's also kha-yao เขย่า. meaning to shake a container in order to mix the contents,

[taxexile]

เขย่า.

thats also the word used to our 4 year old nephew who has just started going to the bathroom on his own to pee , hes told not to forget to give it a good shake when hes finished !!

[DavidHouston]

There's also kha-yao เขย่า. meaning to shake a container in order to mix the contents,

Good addition, Sabaijai. The word seems to have a transitive meaning, rather than intransitive. That is, เขย่า is to take something sedentary and to mix it up with vigorous shaking. This is not like "quivering" or "shivering" where the action is involuntary and intransitive. Here is the Royal Institute Dictionary definition:

_______________________

เขย่า [ขะเหฺย่า] ก. อาการที่จับสิ่งใดสั่นหรือยกขึ้นยกลงเร็ว ๆ เพื่อให้

สิ่งนั้นกระเทือนหรือเคลื่อนไหว เช่น เขย่าตัวเพื่อให้ตื่น เขย่าขวด

เพื่อให้ยาระคนกัน เขย่ากิ่งไม้เพื่อให้ลูกไม้หล่น, กระเทือน, ทําให้

กระเทือน, เช่น รถเขย่า เกวียนเขย่า, โดยปริยายหมายถึงอาการ

ที่คล้ายคลึงเช่นนั้น เช่น เขย่าขวัญ เขย่าโลก.

Verb. The action in which someone holds onto something and shakes it or moves it rapidly up and down in order that that thing will be shaken or moved about, for example, "to shake one's self awake"; "to shake the bottle such that the medicine will be blended"; "to shake the branches of a tree so that the fruit will fall down"; to shake or to make something shake; for example, "the car is shaking (me)"; "the wagon is shaking (him)". By implication, the word can be used to mean (metaphors) which show a similar action, such as, "to frighted shock of horrify" (to shake one's spirit); "world-shaking).

Edited April 23, 2008 by DavidHouston

[Neeranam]

Interesting thread David - I would have thought that if you were talking about a person shaking, it would be "สั่น" if talking about a thing shaking, it would be "ไหว".

For example, talking about an alcoholic's hands in the morning, I would use "สั่น" but when talking about the ground shaking during an earthquake, I would use "ไหว".

Could it possibly be "wai" for big things and "sun" for litle things??

ตัวสะท้าน เพราะพิษสุราเรื้อรังwhat about these lyrica from a famous Thai song? สะท้านfor shake - I gues they've used two words to fitinto the song?

N N

Edited April 24, 2008 by Neeranam

[bannork]

กระดิก I've often seen used to describe a dog wagging its tail หมากระดิกหางให้

[mangkorn]

Interesting thread David - I would have thought that if you were talking about a person shaking, it would be "สั่น" if talking about a thing shaking, it would be "ไหว".

For example, talking about an alcoholic's hands in the morning, I would use "สั่น" but when talking about the ground shaking during an earthquake, I would use "ไหว".

Could it possibly be "wai" for big things and "sun" for litle things??

I don't think that's quite right, Neeranam. One everyday example: when a dentist was working on me, and causing certain pain, he admonished: ไม่ไหวนะ

[DavidHouston]

Interesting thread David - I would have thought that if you were talking about a person shaking, it would be "สั่น" if talking about a thing shaking, it would be "ไหว".

For example, talking about an alcoholic's hands in the morning, I would use "สั่น" but when talking about the ground shaking during an earthquake, I would use "ไหว".

Could it possibly be "wai" for big things and "sun" for litle things??

I don't think that's quite right, Neeranam. One everyday example: when a dentist was working on me, and causing certain pain, he admonished: ไม่ไหวนะ

You may have meant that as a joke, but it is interesting to see that the word for "tolerate" is, according to the RID, derived from the word to "vibrate" (from prior post):

"ไหว ก. สั่น, สะเทือน, กระดิก, เช่น ใบไม้ไหว. ว. สามารถทําได้ เช่น เดินไหว สู้ไหว กินไหว.

Verb. Having the same meaning as สั่น, สะเทือน, กระดิก, for example, "the leaves are fluttering (in the wind)" eloquent expression. to be able to accomplish some act, for example, "to be able to walk (after an accident)", "able to continue to fight", "able to stomach (a food)"."

(May we conjecture that the elaborate expression form of the word has the same psychological origin as the metaphor in the song, "We Shall Not Be Moved."

Edited April 24, 2008 by DavidHouston

[CSS]

Interesting thread David - I would have thought that if you were talking about a person shaking, it would be "สั่น" if talking about a thing shaking, it would be "ไหว".

For example, talking about an alcoholic's hands in the morning, I would use "สั่น" but when talking about the ground shaking during an earthquake, I would use "ไหว".

Could it possibly be "wai" for big things and "sun" for litle things??

I don't think that's quite right, Neeranam. One everyday example: when a dentist was working on me, and causing certain pain, he admonished: ไม่ไหวนะ

I do typically hear สั่น used to describe the vibration mobile phone feature and don't know if one would use ไหว. It does feel like Neeranam might be right but made the scale needs to be adjusted to fit mangkorn's experience. I took the dentists comment to refer to his body so maybe small, small things like phones and hands use สั่น. but body sized and up may use ไหว. Even if this is the distinction I'm sure there is a lot of grey area in the middle.

Edited April 24, 2008 by CSS

[DavidHouston]

Here is another application of these words. "Image stabilization" in a digital camera is called "ระบบป้องกันภาพสั่นไหว" as in this review

"ระบบป้องกันภาพสั่นไหว VR ทำให้คุณสามารถถ่าย ภาพในที่แสงน้อย ๆ หรือภาพเคลื่อนไหว"

The image stabilizaton system "VR" enables you to take photographs under very low light conditions and pictures of non-stationary objects."

[DavidHouston]

Interesting thread David - I would have thought that if you were talking about a person shaking, it would be "สั่น" if talking about a thing shaking, it would be "ไหว".

For example, talking about an alcoholic's hands in the morning, I would use "สั่น" but when talking about the ground shaking during an earthquake, I would use "ไหว".

Could it possibly be "wai" for big things and "sun" for litle things??

ตัวสะท้าน เพราะพิษสุราเรื้อรังwhat about these lyrica from a famous Thai song? สะท้านfor shake - I gues they've used two words to fitinto the song?

N N

Good addition, คุณนิรนาม. I did not know this word. Here are the definitions from Lexitron and the Royal Institute Dictionary: สะท้าน [V] shiver; tremble; quake; quiver; shake; shudder

Sample:แม่เฒ่าวูบหนาวจนขนสะท้าน

The old woman experienced such a sudden chill that the hair on her arm quivered.

Sample: ผมตะโกนจนเสียงสะท้านให้เด็กคนนั้นช่วยดันรถกลับขึ้นมา

I yelled at those kids to help push the car back to me until my vocal chords quivered.

สะท้าน ก. รู้สึกเย็นเยือกเข้าหัวใจ ทําให้ครั่นคร้าม หรือหวั่นกลัวจน

ตัวสั่น เช่น เห็นไฟไหม้แล้วสะท้าน, หนาวสั่น เช่น หนาว

สะท้านเหมือนจะเป็นไข้ หนาวสะท้านเพราะเดินกรำฝนมา

หลายชั่วโมง, มักใช้เข้าคู่กับคำ สะทก เป็น สะทกสะท้าน;

ดังลั่น, ดังก้อง, สั่นสะเทือน, เช่น เสียงปืนใหญ่ดังสะท้านก้อง

ไปทั้งกรุง.

Verb. To feel a chill entering one’s heart [to chill one’s spirit?] ; to cause one to become scared and to shiver with fear, for example, “I see the fire burning and it causes me to shake”; to shiver with cold, for example, “he is shivering like he has a fever”; “she is shivering because she was soaked from walking in the rain for many hours”. The word is often used with the word “สะทก” to result in the combined word “สะทกสะท้าน” (to be frightened or perturbed); or with the word “ดังลั่น” or “ดังก้อง” (to reverberate or echo) or “สั่นสะเทือน” (to quake, shake, vibrate), for example, “There was a loud, reverberating noise which echoed throughout the entire city.”

And, this from the poem, “เธอรู้ไหม...ว่าฉันปวดร้าวเพียงใด...”

“สายลมพัดวูบ หนาวสะท้านผิว”

The wind rushes in and my skin shivers with the chill.”

[mangkorn]

Here is another application of these words. "Image stabilization" in a digital camera is called "ระบบป้องกันภาพสั่นไหว" as in this review

"ระบบป้องกันภาพสั่นไหว VR ทำให้คุณสามารถถ่าย ภาพในที่แสงน้อย ๆ หรือภาพเคลื่อนไหว"

The image stabilizaton system "VR" enables you to take photographs under very low light conditions and pictures of non-stationary objects."

Great stuff, David, finding สั่นไหว - that typically Thai use of two similar words to reinforce an idea (what is often regarded as redundant in English), seems to cover, or overlap, the grey area that Khun CSS alluded to?

Or, to borrow from your post on another thread, perhaps the linguistic equivalent of ทับซ้อน

[Neeranam]

What about สะท้านโลก?

[DavidHouston]

What about สะท้านโลก?

I was wondering about that as well. Domnern Sathienpong has the defintion as "world-shaking". However, it is not clear to me whether this is a neologism from English or not. Can someone confirm to us whether a Thai would say, for example, "เป็นเหตุการณ์เชิงสะท้านโลก", It was a world-shaking event."

There was this from Thai Rath:

"กลายเป็นข่าวเศร้าสะท้านโลก ได้รับการรายงานและกล่าวขวัญถึงไปทั่วโลก ทันทีที่เกิดเหตุขึ้น"

"It was sad news of earth-shaking proportions and it was reported and mentioned the whole world round as soon as it happened."

Thanks again for that addition.

[thithi]

What about สะท้านโลก?

I was wondering about that as well. Domnern Sathienpong has the defintion as "world-shaking". However, it is not clear to me whether this is a neologism from English or not. Can someone confirm to us whether a Thai would say, for example, "เป็นเหตุการณ์เชิงสะท้านโลก", It was a world-shaking event."

There was this from Thai Rath:

"กลายเป็นข่าวเศร้าสะท้านโลก ได้รับการรายงานและกล่าวขวัญถึงไปทั่วโลก ทันทีที่เกิดเหตุขึ้น"

"It was sad news of earth-shaking proportions and it was reported and mentioned the whole world round as soon as it happened."

Thanks again for that addition.

It's just like Workd-shaking [as Domnern Sathienpong has the defintion], that makes everybody who read the news shocked