Doctor Needs A Money Deposit

[kaye]

I've chosen a doctor (Dr Pat from Tokai clinic)

to do a breast augmentation and I am getting a larger (650 or 700 cc)

size and he said it's a special size so he has to order from the dealer in advance...

I was given a paypal account...which is connected through my credit card

...don't think my credit card provider would do a chargeback if something

went wrong for a *service*...

My surgery date is not until mid July and I live overseas...I'm wondering is it wise

to deposit the amount $1000us (30,000baht) having not met the doctor ?...has anyone

gone through a situation like this ? I understand if I want the larger size

they got to order it...but...

I thought they would pre-order themselves and I would

just pay the full amount when I arrived in Thailand at the clinic...

Anyone have any advice ?

[gunnyd]

The fact that the doctor/clinic is asking you to pay through Paypal should have alarms blaring in the background. I have spent hundreds of thousands in Thai hospitals and never have been asked for a deposit.

The only time that a hospital asks for a deposit is when inpatient procedures are being done.

Find another doctor. And a 30k deposit? You can get the whole procedure for that price.

Danger!! Danger!! Will Robinson!!

I presume, though I shouldn't, that you are farang because of the size of implants you are choosing. Unfortunately farangs get taken advantage of in Thailand.

And I really hope you got a second and third opinion on the procedure. The size of the implants are not used in Western countries for a first time augmentation. They are done on a third or more visit. The skin and underlying tissues would be heavily damaged if this is your first augmentation. You need to seek professional advice from a reputable hospital.

GunnyD

[joskydive]

The fact that the doctor/clinic is asking you to pay through Paypal should have alarms blaring in the background. I have spent hundreds of thousands in Thai hospitals and never have been asked for a deposit.

The only time that a hospital asks for a deposit is when inpatient procedures are being done.

Find another doctor. And a 30k deposit? You can get the whole procedure for that price.

Danger!! Danger!! Will Robinson!!

I presume, though I shouldn't, that you are farang because of the size of implants you are choosing. Unfortunately farangs get taken advantage of in Thailand.

And I really hope you got a second and third opinion on the procedure. The size of the implants are not used in Western countries for a first time augmentation. They are done on a third or more visit. The skin and underlying tissues would be heavily damaged if this is your first augmentation. You need to seek professional advice from a reputable hospital.

GunnyD

DITTO to ALL of the above.

[kaye]

I've chosen a doctor (Dr Pat from Tokai clinic)

to do a breast augmentation and I am getting a larger (650 or 700 cc)

size and he said it's a special size so he has to order from the dealer in advance...

I was given a paypal account...which is connected through my credit card

...don't think my credit card provider would do a chargeback if something

went wrong for a *service*...

My surgery date is not until mid July and I live overseas...I'm wondering is it wise

to deposit the amount $1000us (30,000baht) having not met the doctor ?...has anyone

gone through a situation like this ? I understand if I want the larger size

they got to order it...but...

I thought they would pre-order themselves and I would

just pay the full amount when I arrived in Thailand at the clinic...

Anyone have any advice ?

Thanks for your reply.

He also gave me his bank account details.

As for the implant size...I had large breasts before due to breast feeding

so I have enough tissue...

the whole procedure is about $2690 australian dollars or 85000 baht...

I have a few other doctors in mind I might see what they have to say about

ordering implants of this size...

Thanks again...

where can you get the procedure for 30000 baht ? I have emailed

at least 15 or so doctors hospitals and its alwats been around 90000 BAHT to 180000 baht

Edited April 25, 2008 by kaye

[gunnyd]

Your price range sounds about right for getting it done at one of the top hospitals in BKK. I was just saying that you could find many places that it could be done for 30k

Frankly that clinic that asked for the deposit sounds like one of those e-mail scams where they want you to send earnest money by wire to get a prize.

It sounds like you need a doctor with breast reconstruction experience. I personally recommend Bumrungrad International and Vejthani Hospital.

There are many reputable hospitals here and a search of the forum keywords "Breast Augmentation" will get you an idea of the experiences of the members with the major hospitals in Bangkok.

GunnyD

Edited April 25, 2008 by gunnyd

[MsFigure]

Considering you are wanting a larger sized implant, maybe you should reconsider getting them done in Aus. True that it would be more expensive, but at least they have the experience dealing with the larger sized implants.

When I get my implants redone, I'll be definitely be going back to Australia (Perth) because my doc there is very experienced with larger implants

Have you also taken into consideration the type of implant, insertion and placement you want?

And NO - DO NOT PAY upfront, especially since you haven't even met this doctor.

[kaye]

Thanks for your replies...

The doctor in question is American board certified in cosmetic surgery...

I checked...http://www.cosmeticsurgery.org/Patients/searchdetails.asp?id=103005

http://www.cosmeticsurgery.org/Patients/co...surgeryfaqs.asp

Also...I told him I was not comfortable in sending money to him and

would prefer to pay when I arrived...he replied back and said that is fine

to pay when I arrive at the clinic and they will get the dealer to send the implant to the clinic

he will make sure the dealer stocks the implant (because don't hold that size in stock)

It's Mentor brand...which I know is a very popular american company for implants...

And I've read up on it from mentors site...

He just said that I need to email my itinerary...to confirm the company for ordering

my implants for me...

I've heard good things about him...on other boards from people who have gone to him

...good surgeon...clean pristine clinic...modern technologies...

I'm getting silicone hp unders...transaxillary incision...

[wca01]

I know Tokai clinic based on a business relationship. Last year I visited with Dr. Pat a congress in Singapore. Tokai is able to do a good job.

WCA

[p_brownstone]

Well, I for one can understand why the Doctor needs a Deposit.

Suppose he orders the Implants and pays for them himself, then for some reason Kaye does not turn up for the operation?

He would never be able to find another "customer" in Thailand for such large Implants so he would have to take the loss himself.

Patrick

[ballbreaker]

Well, I for one can understand why the Doctor needs a Deposit.

Suppose he orders the Implants and pays for them himself, then for some reason Kaye does not turn up for the operation?

He would never be able to find another "customer" in Thailand for such large Implants so he would have to take the loss himself.

Patrick

Ditto

[basjke]

Your price range sounds about right for getting it done at one of the top hospitals in BKK. I was just saying that you could find many places that it could be done for 30k

Frankly that clinic that asked for the deposit sounds like one of those e-mail scams where they want you to send earnest money by wire to get a prize.

It sounds like you need a doctor with breast reconstruction experience. I personally recommend Bumrungrad International and Vejthani Hospital.

There are many reputable hospitals here and a search of the forum keywords "Breast Augmentation" will get you an idea of the experiences of the members with the major hospitals in Bangkok.

GunnyD

What you will get for 30K?Waterfilled condoms inserted,lol?For sure they will not do it at bumrungrad hospital even near the price you mention.

[dominique355]

What you will get for 30K?Waterfilled condoms inserted,lol?For sure they will not do it at bumrungrad hospital even near the price you mention.

Actually in Bumrungrad they ask you to pay in full before the surgery. And the price for a simple breast augmentation is above THB 100K. If in addition they have to remove and correct an earlier intervention, I would guess it's a bit more than 100K.

But isn't it normal that a hospital or a doctor asks for payment or some sort of guarantee before the surgery? I wasn't surprised by Bumrungrad's policy and paid in full before. (Actually the surgery was not for me but for my Missus, LOL ). After discharge, no additional charges, no surprises. Fully satisfied with Bumrungrad's services.

Edited May 1, 2008 by dominique355

[kaye]

Thanks for your replies...

Yes I agree for the reason why the doc needs a deposit...

to make sure I come...as what he also said...implants are not free they

have to buy them and get them sent especially since Tokai don't stock my large implant size...

I've done much research...he is giving me a reasonable price...some thai

hospitals wants $3900us just for the large implants and even one hospital wanted to

charge about $8000usd for a lift and augmentation...I'm not dumb I know what the costs

are really worth in Thailand...farangs do get charged more but some hospitals are taking

advantage...

As for Bumrungrad, I was going to go through them had appointment for surgery

made and all with Dr teerasit (really good doc) but at the last minute (I assumed they had all sizes) I asked what

is the largest he used and it was 500cc...not big enough...so... not many Thai docs like to use large

implants they are conservative...I have emailed many...Yahnee charge $2000usd for under 400cc

over 500cc it is $3900usd...I'm pretty sure the implant prices are the same for all the sizes...one price...

so why Yahnee charges more I don't know...I think I have emailed every hospital clinic that is known in Thailand...

Anyway I go to Thailand a week before my surgery so I will be able to meet up with the doctor

before surgery...check out his clinic and I'm sure I will be happy with my decision...

Edited May 2, 2008 by kaye

[jrbkk64]

Hi All,

Have done a search but can really not find what I need. My girlfriend wants her breasts done/enlarged. According to her Tokai in sukhumvit 97 is a good one and it is near where we live. She went to see them today and was quoted 100k for contoured implants. This price seems to be in the ballpark, however I am unable to find recent and reliable information on the quality of work in Tokai.

Does anyone have any recent experience??

Edited March 16, 2009 by jrbkk64

[SiamSuzi]

Oooh goodie! One of my recently favorite topics!

I just had implants here in BKK 6 days ago. I consulted with Yanhee (which does infact charge by the CC), Bumrungrad (flat rate), and Yoskarn Clinic (flat rate).

All three of these places ask you to pay on the morning of your surgery, regardless of if they have to special order your implants or not.

I would recommend that you schedule consultations with at least 3 different surgeons before you make your decision. You can even schedule the consultations on the same day. Often they will have slightly different opinions, and you want to consider everything carefully.

If you're interested, you can PM me and I'll be more than happy to give you very detailed information.

When do you plan on coming?

[SiamSuzi]

Um, uh oh.

I want to correct some misinformation you have there. Your doctor is actually not American Board Certified. What is meant when people refer to a doctor as being "American Board Certified" is being certified by the American Board of Plastic Surgery. This is THE single authoritative governing body of plastic surgery (in the U.S.) and the highest accreditation a doctor can recieve. Your doctor isn't American Board Certified. He's got a certificate from the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery. Keywords here being ACADEMY and COSMETIC, totally different. All kinds of boards of this and academies of that pop up all over the place and their certificates mean virtually nothing. The one thing people look for when checking credentials of a doctor in the U.S. is to be sure he's certified by the American Board of Plastic Surgery. Again, your doctor is not. You can check for yourself at www.abplsurg.org.

Also worth noting is that on your doctors "about me" page where he lists all his "credentials", he's got many of the same certificates listed twice. He's scanned them in different sizes and different colors, but has listed them multiple times making it appear as if he's got more credentials than he really has. I'm not trying to discredit him, but why would any ethical and respectable doctor do that?

Finally, regarding the price quotes you got, I hope the ones on the high end of your range included two procedures (like implants AND a lift or nipple reduction), because implants alone would never cost that much here even for the most expensive doctors.

I'm more than happy to speak with you in more detail over PM if you like.

[jackoneilone]

1. He is not american board certified.

2. For that amount of money you could try going elsewhere.

3. Might be smarter idea to find docs who have handled bigger sizes more often and experience in bigger sizes is crucial.

4. Its true that they need a special order for anything generally larger than 500cc i think. this was also the case in Yanhee and bumrungrad and a few other places.

5. All implants are not priced the same. It costs more as the size increases.

Have you tried Preecha?

[SiamSuzi]

Any updates as to your thoughts/concerns?

FYI, Bumrungrad was going to have to special order mine because of large size, but the doctor I actually ended up going with at Yoskarn Clinic (Somyos Kunachak) actually had min in stock.

[jackoneilone]

Any updates as to your thoughts/concerns?

FYI, Bumrungrad was going to have to special order mine because of large size, but the doctor I actually ended up going with at Yoskarn Clinic (Somyos Kunachak) actually had min in stock.

what size? somyos probably either happened to have it in stock(and im sure he has done quite a few larger sizes) or get it from the distributor in BKK.

[SiamSuzi]

Mentor Memory Gel smooth 550cc.

Does Somyos have a rep for doing bigger ones?

Edited March 19, 2009 by SiamSuzi

[BigSnake]

Well, I for one can understand why the Doctor needs a Deposit.

Suppose he orders the Implants and pays for them himself, then for some reason Kaye does not turn up for the operation?

He would never be able to find another "customer" in Thailand for such large Implants so he would have to take the loss himself.

Patrick

Ditto

Ditto, Exactly, the doctor has my support in this case

[jackoneilone]

Mentor Memory Gel smooth 550cc.

Does Somyos have a rep for doing bigger ones?

yes and no.

He does have a larger upper echaleon clientele and quite a few foreigners with "bigger" needs

But it also has to do with the size and structure of the operation. Though im sure somyos may "bulk" buy the most common sizes so as to save money he does have the freedom and ability to buy whatever he feels like whenever and he often does that. I was once there when he sent somebody on an errand to get some implants from Mentor in BKK.

Now places like Bumrungrad etc are large scale and do not really allow for individual maneauvrability and freedom of instantenous purchases. Have you seen the "wall of implants" at yanhee? that might give you a mental image and yanhee prefers allergan/inamed in contrast to mentor and they are veryyyyy reluctant to put mentors in you now. Why? probably because they have better pricing on Allergan Inamed and possibily also that some surgeons genuinely prefer it whereas Bumrungrad is reluctant about Allergan/Inamed implants and push Mentor.

This individuality and freedom explains why Somyos for example is sooo much more knowledgeable about the many procedures and alternatives because he also stays up to date. Others have policies and they only do the set institutionally approved methods and thats it. Bumrungrad as example prefers undercrease incisions or if armpit not more than 300cc or so. For brow lifts they do the conventional brow lift. Yanhee can do upto 500cc+, Conventional + endoscopic though not as much etc different policies. Somyos is the only one that does things like suture lift, aptos sutures, all types of fillers etc lots of endocscopic brow lifts etc and all the other conventional methods too.

[Dakhar]

Mentor Memory Gel smooth 550cc.

Does Somyos have a rep for doing bigger ones?

yes and no.

He does have a larger upper echaleon clientele and quite a few foreigners with "bigger" needs

But it also has to do with the size and structure of the operation. Though im sure somyos may "bulk" buy the most common sizes so as to save money he does have the freedom and ability to buy whatever he feels like whenever and he often does that. I was once there when he sent somebody on an errand to get some implants from Mentor in BKK.

Now places like Bumrungrad etc are large scale and do not really allow for individual maneauvrability and freedom of instantenous purchases. Have you seen the "wall of implants" at yanhee? that might give you a mental image and yanhee prefers allergan/inamed in contrast to mentor and they are veryyyyy reluctant to put mentors in you now. Why? probably because they have better pricing on Allergan Inamed and possibily also that some surgeons genuinely prefer it whereas Bumrungrad is reluctant about Allergan/Inamed implants and push Mentor.

This individuality and freedom explains why Somyos for example is sooo much more knowledgeable about the many procedures and alternatives because he also stays up to date. Others have policies and they only do the set institutionally approved methods and thats it. Bumrungrad as example prefers undercrease incisions or if armpit not more than 300cc or so. For brow lifts they do the conventional brow lift. Yanhee can do upto 500cc+, Conventional + endoscopic though not as much etc different policies. Somyos is the only one that does things like suture lift, aptos sutures, all types of fillers etc lots of endocscopic brow lifts etc and all the other conventional methods too.

Why, because the kick backs from Allegran are better, that is why. Surgeons would implant a football from "Wilson" if they paid enough.

[SiamSuzi]

LOL!! Football!! I keep visualizing Tom Hanks on an island now.

Anyways, eeeeew, I thought under crease incisions were ancient by now. I really didn't know anyone still did them unless there was an extenuating circumstance. I consulted with Poomee at Bumrungrad and he was going to go through the areola incision with my 550's.

I think you're right about many doctors only sticking to conventional standard methods though. That's what Poomee was going to do with me.

I'm glad I did end up with Somyos Kunachak though as he is clearly advanced in his approaches. Because of him I got what I wanted with a less invasive procedure, less scarring, and an easier recovery. I really am smitten with the whole experience. I love his nurses too.

I'm definitely going back to him should I ever decide to have something else done.

[jackoneilone]

Mentor Memory Gel smooth 550cc.

Does Somyos have a rep for doing bigger ones?

yes and no.

He does have a larger upper echaleon clientele and quite a few foreigners with "bigger" needs

But it also has to do with the size and structure of the operation. Though im sure somyos may "bulk" buy the most common sizes so as to save money he does have the freedom and ability to buy whatever he feels like whenever and he often does that. I was once there when he sent somebody on an errand to get some implants from Mentor in BKK.

Now places like Bumrungrad etc are large scale and do not really allow for individual maneauvrability and freedom of instantenous purchases. Have you seen the "wall of implants" at yanhee? that might give you a mental image and yanhee prefers allergan/inamed in contrast to mentor and they are veryyyyy reluctant to put mentors in you now. Why? probably because they have better pricing on Allergan Inamed and possibily also that some surgeons genuinely prefer it whereas Bumrungrad is reluctant about Allergan/Inamed implants and push Mentor.

This individuality and freedom explains why Somyos for example is sooo much more knowledgeable about the many procedures and alternatives because he also stays up to date. Others have policies and they only do the set institutionally approved methods and thats it. Bumrungrad as example prefers undercrease incisions or if armpit not more than 300cc or so. For brow lifts they do the conventional brow lift. Yanhee can do upto 500cc+, Conventional + endoscopic though not as much etc different policies. Somyos is the only one that does things like suture lift, aptos sutures, all types of fillers etc lots of endocscopic brow lifts etc and all the other conventional methods too.

Why, because the kick backs from Allegran are better, that is why. Surgeons would implant a football from "Wilson" if they paid enough.

not sure about kickbacks and if so amounts etc but yeah they probably would though DUNLOP might offer more

[jackoneilone]

LOL!! Football!! I keep visualizing Tom Hanks on an island now.

Anyways, eeeeew, I thought under crease incisions were ancient by now. I really didn't know anyone still did them unless there was an extenuating circumstance. I consulted with Poomee at Bumrungrad and he was going to go through the areola incision with my 550's.

I think you're right about many doctors only sticking to conventional standard methods though. That's what Poomee was going to do with me.

I'm glad I did end up with Somyos Kunachak though as he is clearly advanced in his approaches. Because of him I got what I wanted with a less invasive procedure, less scarring, and an easier recovery. I really am smitten with the whole experience. I love his nurses too.

I'm definitely going back to him should I ever decide to have something else done.

Yeah poomee and that other US trained lady doctor both seem to do a bit of aerola. Teerasit does some armpit, some aerola lots of undercrease.

Its just silly but i guess its like an old mechanic

Wanted a brow lift, poomee "lets cut your ear to ear", preecha "mmmm you look good" somyos "theres all these ways we can address your problem and if u want smooth lines, skin and want to fix those brows higher then maybe endoscopic is best for you. But maybe not now yet? Your still young."

[Dakhar]

Mentor Memory Gel smooth 550cc.

Does Somyos have a rep for doing bigger ones?

yes and no.

He does have a larger upper echaleon clientele and quite a few foreigners with "bigger" needs

But it also has to do with the size and structure of the operation. Though im sure somyos may "bulk" buy the most common sizes so as to save money he does have the freedom and ability to buy whatever he feels like whenever and he often does that. I was once there when he sent somebody on an errand to get some implants from Mentor in BKK.

Now places like Bumrungrad etc are large scale and do not really allow for individual maneauvrability and freedom of instantenous purchases. Have you seen the "wall of implants" at yanhee? that might give you a mental image and yanhee prefers allergan/inamed in contrast to mentor and they are veryyyyy reluctant to put mentors in you now. Why? probably because they have better pricing on Allergan Inamed and possibily also that some surgeons genuinely prefer it whereas Bumrungrad is reluctant about Allergan/Inamed implants and push Mentor.

This individuality and freedom explains why Somyos for example is sooo much more knowledgeable about the many procedures and alternatives because he also stays up to date. Others have policies and they only do the set institutionally approved methods and thats it. Bumrungrad as example prefers undercrease incisions or if armpit not more than 300cc or so. For brow lifts they do the conventional brow lift. Yanhee can do upto 500cc+, Conventional + endoscopic though not as much etc different policies. Somyos is the only one that does things like suture lift, aptos sutures, all types of fillers etc lots of endocscopic brow lifts etc and all the other conventional methods too.

Why, because the kick backs from Allegran are better, that is why. Surgeons would implant a football from "Wilson" if they paid enough.

not sure about kickbacks and if so amounts etc but yeah they probably would though DUNLOP might offer more

I am sure, I work in the health care industry in Thailand and the stuff I see here is down right apalling. The stuff I saw in the US was disturbing, anoying and sometimes rediculous.... but here... speechless.

[SiamSuzi]

What kind of stuff Dakhar?

[Dakhar]

Simply put, kickbacks, kickbacks & more kickbacks. Kickbacks from the manufacturer, & distributor. So the doctors get several layers of kick backs. Then you get the withholding of free medical supplies etc. In other words, something that should be free but is "limited in quantity" then is offered to those that want to be "first in line" for a fee.

There is also refusal to release referals to those that refer. In other words, lets say you are a independent dentist, and you see something that is questionable on a person's toungue. So you refer to an ENT. The ENT reviews the patient, clears the patient "Ahhh nothing wrong, but go see our staff dentist from this point..." Then the patient obediently obeys and does not return to their original dentist. In the medical comunity, YOU DO NOT DO THAT PERIOD.

Then there is the antibiotics for a virus. My son just recentlly came down with Roesella. My wife being the typical Thai, whisks our baby over to the doctor... the doctor looks at him and says he has Roesella, so give him these pills.

My wife did not tell me about the "pills" & the next thing you know my son develops diereah and he is one uncomfortable kid. My wife then say, "Ahh it is probably just the antibiotics....."

<deleted>!!!!!!!

Any how, yes the doctors here have a different level of greed than the ones in the states.... and the one in the states are not white lillies either!

[jackoneilone]

Simply put, kickbacks, kickbacks & more kickbacks. Kickbacks from the manufacturer, & distributor. So the doctors get several layers of kick backs. Then you get the withholding of free medical supplies etc. In other words, something that should be free but is "limited in quantity" then is offered to those that want to be "first in line" for a fee.

There is also refusal to release referals to those that refer. In other words, lets say you are a independent dentist, and you see something that is questionable on a person's toungue. So you refer to an ENT. The ENT reviews the patient, clears the patient "Ahhh nothing wrong, but go see our staff dentist from this point..." Then the patient obediently obeys and does not return to their original dentist. In the medical comunity, YOU DO NOT DO THAT PERIOD.

Then there is the antibiotics for a virus. My son just recentlly came down with Roesella. My wife being the typical Thai, whisks our baby over to the doctor... the doctor looks at him and says he has Roesella, so give him these pills.

My wife did not tell me about the "pills" & the next thing you know my son develops diereah and he is one uncomfortable kid. My wife then say, "Ahh it is probably just the antibiotics....."

<deleted>!!!!!!!

Any how, yes the doctors here have a different level of greed than the ones in the states.... and the one in the states are not white lillies either!

tell us more thats not enough. other stupid docs do that too in other countries like japan as well where for the flu etc some actually dispense antibiotics lol

In some doctors defense eg somyos or preecha that choice is there if u want mentor or allergan and it didnt seem to fase them at all.

Patients should have the choice to go back to their own doctor and not be forced or told to stay within that hospital/doctor's system.

What have u seen in the US?