Work Permit

[ChiangMaiThai]

Many people here have repeated that the original work permit should be kept on your person, while a copy should be kept with your company.

My company insists that this is wrong and that the work permit must be held by the company, while all I am entitled to is

I called immigration in CM (who's answers I don't always trust) and they said that it is up to the company whether they want to give it to me or keep it themselves.

Can anyone give me a definitive answer on this? Also, when buying a new car, is the original work permit required or just a copy?

[joskydive]

In the years that I have been here I have always been told to keep my Work Permit and Passport on me at all times as an official can turn up at any time, anywhere, and demand to see them. Penalties if you haven't got them because they both belong to you, not the Company you work for!

Should they get stolen, I always have a record of WP Number and Passport Number, expiry dates etc., and photocopies at home.

[sungod]

This may not help as it seems open to interpretation, however on the back cover of your WP it does state;

"A permit holder must keep the permit with him, or at the place of work during working hours in order that it may be shown to the competent official or the Registrar. Any violation thereof shall be liable to a fine exceeding one thousand baht.'

Does that mean you can take it home at night?????

With regards to buying a car( I guess you are talking about finance), I may be putting my head on the line but they will want to see the original. If you are not going down the finance route for payment, I guess you could get a letter of residence based on your Non Imm B to put it in your name. Although some posters will tell you they have done this with Tourist visa also.

[joskydive]

This may not help as it seems open to interpretation, however on the back cover of your WP it does state;

"A permit holder must keep the permit with him, or at the place of work during working hours in order that it may be shown to the competent official or the Registrar. Any violation thereof shall be liable to a fine exceeding one thousand baht.'

Does that mean you can take it home at night?????

With regards to buying a car( I guess you are talking about finance), I may be putting my head on the line but they will want to see the original. If you are not going down the finance route for payment, I guess you could get a letter of residence based on your Non Imm B to put it in your name. Although some posters will tell you they have done this with Tourist visa also.

I've been stopped by the Police many times on my way to and from work and as soon as they ask 'Where you come from' and 'Where you go', they want to see the Work Permit when you say you are going to or from work. There's no way I would let the Company, take care,of either my Work Permit or my Passport.

I had one really bad experience when I first came to Thailand to work for an Englishman and all I can say is - NEVER AGAIN!

[PhilHarries]

All the time I worked in Thailand the company kept all work permits in their main office. Interestingly though we often performed our duties (i.e. worked) at another company office and at various construction sites around the country. We never took our work permits to these other locations and I often wonder what would have happened if we were visited by an official checking up on such things. Anyone know if a WP can be issued for "A. N. Other Co. Ltd, North Road, Pattaya and any worksite controlled by said company" to cover a multitude of sites?

btw in all the years I was there and all the times I was stopped by the police (traffic violations) they never asked me for my WP. I guess it is just a matter of what particular police area you come under.

[Tomkagai]

Techinically the work permit is yours and therefore the company has no right to keep it...

A few years ago a company I was working for told me they had to by law keep the W/P and passport on the company premises....which is a load of cr*p and they tried to push the issue over keeping the passport until I threatened to talk to my embassy as what they were trying to do was illegal, and would report the company owner (EEC Farang)....

I got both documents given back to me rather quickly and this argument never came up again...

[joskydive]

Your Work Permit states which Province you can work in. Mine says Chonburi Province so if I wanted to work in Chiang Mai I would have to reapply to the registrar for permission.

The Warning in the back of the book tells you:-

A permit holder shall not engage in the work other than that which is specified in the permit or change the locality or place of work from that which is specified in the permit unless prior permission is obtained from the registrar. Any violation thereof shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month or to a fine not exceeding two thousand Baht or both.

[Tomkagai]

Also, when buying a new car, is the original work permit required or just a copy?

In my experience they wanted to see the original and they made a copy, but suppose a notorised copy would suffice...

[ChiangMaiThai]

I spoke to HR again. My company is absolutely steadfast in their stance that all work permits will be kept by them. End of story. They also told me I have no right to talk to immigration about this matter. (This is not some small fly by night company I work for). They will release it to be shown to a car dealership, but it must be returned immediately thereafter.

[joskydive]

You have every right to go and speak to immigration and your Embassy about this matter and I would certainly be the first in line at immigration to discuss this now that they have stated you have no right.

[Tomkagai]

I spoke to HR again. My company is absolutely steadfast in their stance that all work permits will be kept by them. End of story. They also told me I have no right to talk to immigration about this matter. (This is not some small fly by night company I work for). They will release it to be shown to a car dealership, but it must be returned immediately thereafter.

OK...must a company policy rather than a legal requirement...but at the end of the day the W/P is yours not the companies...and as some of the other posters have pointed out if you get sprung by the BiB looking to see your W/P and not near or in the office, you leave yourself open to fines...

Seeing as you are not working for a small fly by night company....sure they will cough up to pay the fine as well..??

[Cyberstar]

I called immigration in CM (who's answers I don't always trust) and they said that it is up to the company whether they want to give it to me or keep it themselves.

It's labor office that decides the rules - not the immigration office. However, immigration police might require you obey the rules of labor department - but since they often don't even know their own rules - how should they be reliable regarding rules of other government departments?

Edited April 26, 2008 by Cyberstar

[Cuban]

I echo comments above about the WP being yours.

I question why your employer has this policy - is it a case of stopping you moving to a different company?

Or is there a history of farang staff loosing their WPs? (can't be the case)

[Misty]

I spoke to HR again. My company is absolutely steadfast in their stance that all work permits will be kept by them. End of story. They also told me I have no right to talk to immigration about this matter. (This is not some small fly by night company I work for). They will release it to be shown to a car dealership, but it must be returned immediately thereafter.

If your company is adamant that they will only give you the work permit for a limited time and purpose, perhaps they could supply you with a Thai language letter to the authorities stating that they are keeping your work permit on file and will only relinquish it upon request by the authorities? That way if you are stopped, you can at least produce the letter and a photocopy of your work permit. Would probably do the trick, I think.

Interestingly, in 14+ years I've never had a policeman ask to see my work permit. (I live in Bangkok.) But it has been required in order to purchase certain items, rent apts, get certain services, apply for bank accounts, credit cards, etc. And I'm told it can be useful to get into national parks at the local price although I've never tried.

In any event, I'm pretty sure the company is wrong about your right to talk to Immigration. It's up to you to decide what you talk to either Immigration or the Labour Dept about.

Cheers, Misty

[TerryLH]

"Your Work Permit states which Province you can work in. Mine says Chonburi Province so if I wanted to work in Chiang Mai I would have to reapply to the registrar for permission."

Your WP has a specific, exact address of where you work. That is the only place you can legally work.

"You have every right to go and speak to immigration and your Embassy about this matter and I would certainly be the first in line at immigration to discuss this now that they have stated you have no right."

Neither immigration or your embassy has anything to do with a WP, but they might be polite and listen to you a while before sending you on your way. Government officials are always impressed by people who come to them for things they obviously have nothing to do with.

"OK...must a company policy rather than a legal requirement...but at the end of the day the W/P is yours not the companies...and as some of the other posters have pointed out if you get sprung by the BiB looking to see your W/P and not near or in the office, you leave yourself open to fines..."

If your company payed for the WP they might feel like they 'own' it. No harm as long as it's kept at the work site to be shown to 'the competent official or Registrar' asking to see it.

There is no requirement to have a WP with you at any time when not at work. The only requirement is that it be kept with you, or at the work site during work hours. Yes, it can be taken home when you're not working.

"If your company is adamant that they will only give you the work permit for a limited time and purpose, perhaps they could supply you with a Thai language letter to the authorities stating that they are keeping your work permit on file and will only relinquish it upon request by the authorities?"

Or you could just tell them it's at your work location, where it's supposed to be(when you are working). In many years here I've never been asked, nor do I personally know anyone who has been asked to show a WP, other than for a loan or something like that.

It seems to me that since there is no requirement to carry a WP around with you, when not working, then any requests to look at it off site would be from people who don't really have any real need to see it.

[Mitker]

And I'm told it can be useful to get into national parks at the local price although I've never tried.

I did and it worked.

I wasn't even carrying my WP with me but showing the stamp the labor dpt put on the last page of my passeport mentionning the WP, I was entitled the "thai rate" at the entrance of the national park.

[Bagwain]

As Managing Director my W/P allows me to work or at least sell my business all over the country.

Never been asked for my W/P by officialdom.

But have been asked many times for other stuff like, buying motorbike, getting internet connection etc.

Crazy

[Tomkagai]

"Your WP has a specific, exact address of where you work. That is the only place you can legally work"

.... Not Strictly true, where you can work is decscribed in the W/P..in my case, I live in Chonburi, my WP address is through the office in BKK (I have never worked in that office) and I have worked all

over Thailand including working offshore, but my W/P specifies permission to do this...

In many years here I've never been asked, nor do I personally know anyone who has been asked to show a WP,

.....Have been asked twice to produce the W/P in the last 6 years...

"question why your employer has this policy - is it a case of stopping you moving to a different company?"

...If the company holds the work permit its not any more difficult or easier to stop you moving companies..as you are moving companies the WP process has to start again anyway...

"And I'm told it can be useful to get into national parks at the local price although I've never tried"

....Yes it does work for national parks and a lot of other places where dual pricing is in place...

[PattayaParent]

I've always understood that the WP should be kept at your place of work in case of visits from the local Labour Office to ascertain the legality of persons working there. My company gets such visitations a couple of times a year and previously the company has kept my WP.

I was surprised when they gave it to me to keep but I just keep it in my desk drawer in the office as it's unlikely any highway cop stopping me on the way to / from work is going to know that I work here and ask me for it. Besides which I keep a photocopy of WP, driving licence and passport in my glove compartment. Tried giving the highway cops a photocopy of a 100 baht note one time too but they wouldn't accept it

For buying a car and opening a bank account photocopies have always sufficed.

[Thenacity]

"question why your employer has this policy - is it a case of stopping you moving to a different company?"

...If the company holds the work permit its not any more difficult or easier to stop you moving companies..as you are moving companies the WP process has to start again anyway...

Is this strictly true? I believe that if you do not surrender your WP from prior employment you face some substantial fines or other obstacles in the future. If the prior employer refuses to cooperate this would seem to be a form of deterrence for people seeking to change jobs.

What is sure is that if the inspectors come snooping around it's best to have all documentation letter-perfect. I've heard of an instance where a foreign employee was arrested and fined while working for the same employer at the same address but having had his desk moved to a different floor from that indicated in his work permit.

Thailand's work permit regulations are rather ridiculous. Have you considered that foreigner employees (even managing directors) of different companies usually cannot have a fact-to-face business meeting without one of them being out of compliance of the terms of their work permit unless it includes some very broad statement for permitted locations? Or that going shopping for a box of paper clips would put most of us out of status on both location and type of work performed?

It is a continual source of frustration that Thailand erects so many barriers to the individual foreign entrepreneur. It seems they do anything they can to turn every business into a jobs programme for Thais particularly in regards to the 4-employee rules. Carrying dead weight to inflate the employee head-count to gain some face is very feudal and very out of step with modern economic realities.

[dinom]

"Your WP has a specific, exact address of where you work. That is the only place you can legally work"

.... Not Strictly true, where you can work is decscribed in the W/P..in my case, I live in Chonburi, my WP address is through the office in BKK (I have never worked in that office) and I have worked all

over Thailand including working offshore, but my W/P specifies permission to do this...

In many years here I've never been asked, nor do I personally know anyone who has been asked to show a WP,

.....Have been asked twice to produce the W/P in the last 6 years...

"question why your employer has this policy - is it a case of stopping you moving to a different company?"

...If the company holds the work permit its not any more difficult or easier to stop you moving companies..as you are moving companies the WP process has to start again anyway...

"And I'm told it can be useful to get into national parks at the local price although I've never tried"

....Yes it does work for national parks and a lot of other places where dual pricing is in place...

It is a difference wheather you just transfer your work permit to a new company or if you start a completely new workpermit. (easier and faster process)

In my case I keep my workpermit since 8 years and happily added or changed my workplaces (same province) many times. I never had to leave Thailand to get a new workvisa. That cleary saves money and time. One of the companies I've worked for instisted to return my workpermit to the labor office and that I would have to start all over again and leave the country first. Well, my lawyer explained the real facts to them and my workpermit was once again simply transferred without any problems.

[Tomkagai]

"Your WP has a specific, exact address of where you work. That is the only place you can legally work"

.... Not Strictly true, where you can work is decscribed in the W/P..in my case, I live in Chonburi, my WP address is through the office in BKK (I have never worked in that office) and I have worked all

over Thailand including working offshore, but my W/P specifies permission to do this...

In many years here I've never been asked, nor do I personally know anyone who has been asked to show a WP,

.....Have been asked twice to produce the W/P in the last 6 years...

"question why your employer has this policy - is it a case of stopping you moving to a different company?"

...If the company holds the work permit its not any more difficult or easier to stop you moving companies..as you are moving companies the WP process has to start again anyway...

"And I'm told it can be useful to get into national parks at the local price although I've never tried"

....Yes it does work for national parks and a lot of other places where dual pricing is in place...

It is a difference wheather you just transfer your work permit to a new company or if you start a completely new workpermit. (easier and faster process)

In my case I keep my workpermit since 8 years and happily added or changed my workplaces (same province) many times. I never had to leave Thailand to get a new workvisa. That cleary saves money and time. One of the companies I've worked for instisted to return my workpermit to the labor office and that I would have to start all over again and leave the country first. Well, my lawyer explained the real facts to them and my workpermit was once again simply transferred without any problems.

Can only talk about my experiences changing the WP over, but in all cases handed my work permit over to the new company and they cancelled or transferred (what ever they do) the existing and then off to Singapore for the night on the companies money to get a new non-imm B, so hasn't cost me any money or time really and a night on the town Singapore...Although Orchard towers can get a bit expensive...

[ricardofel]

I have never carried my work permit and kept a copy at my store. Never carried my passport with me only a copy. As for police why tell them you're going to work...say you're going to get a massage or have your car waxed. All they want is money for stopping you.

[raro]

It is a difference wheather you just transfer your work permit to a new company or if you start a completely new workpermit. (easier and faster process)

In my case I keep my workpermit since 8 years and happily added or changed my workplaces (same province) many times. I never had to leave Thailand to get a new workvisa. That cleary saves money and time. One of the companies I've worked for instisted to return my workpermit to the labor office and that I would have to start all over again and leave the country first. Well, my lawyer explained the real facts to them and my workpermit was once again simply transferred without any problems.

correct, works unfortunately only within the same province. If you move to another provinde the WP must be returned.

If you resign from company A to start working with company B, company A has seven days to return the WP to the labour department. Your non-immi B visa is then cancelled and you have to leave Thailand within 7 days.

If you submit your new application to work with company B within another days to the labour department, you receive a 30 days "under consideration" stamp and do not have to leave the country.

[seagull]

I have never carried my work permit and kept a copy at my store. Never carried my passport with me only a copy. As for police why tell them you're going to work...say you're going to get a massage or have your car waxed. All they want is money for stopping you.

For one thing, you are legitimately here in Thailand. So why must you tell a lie when you're stopped and queried by BIB ?

[PattayaParent]

It is a difference wheather you just transfer your work permit to a new company or if you start a completely new workpermit. (easier and faster process)

In my case I keep my workpermit since 8 years and happily added or changed my workplaces (same province) many times. I never had to leave Thailand to get a new workvisa. That cleary saves money and time. One of the companies I've worked for instisted to return my workpermit to the labor office and that I would have to start all over again and leave the country first. Well, my lawyer explained the real facts to them and my workpermit was once again simply transferred without any problems.

correct, works unfortunately only within the same province. If you move to another provinde the WP must be returned.

If you resign from company A to start working with company B, company A has seven days to return the WP to the labour department. Your non-immi B visa is then cancelled and you have to leave Thailand within 7 days.

If you submit your new application to work with company B within another days to the labour department, you receive a 30 days "under consideration" stamp and do not have to leave the country.

I've also been told (by my company) that it makes a difference if your WP is tied to a BOI quota and that switching between BOI and non-BOI means that the WP has to be cancelled and re-applied for.

I shall 'forget' to tell them about the 30 day "under consideration" possibility as I too fancy a night out in Singapore