How Much Do You Pay Your Thai Fiance's Mom?

[garro]

I always think that it's a bit sad when people refer to other people in regards to the ethnic/national group they belong to rather than to them as individuals. Thai girls are just as unique and individual as people from other countries, and to think otherwise is just ignorance.

Do I understand you correctly? The cultural norms of the "individual's" native country are VERY IMPORTANT to the issue at hand. A THai girl is most definitely different than an American girl, or English girl, or many others. To think otherwise is more than just a tad naive.

Okay, I'm the OP......

Yes, I am giving this young lady $500 a month to help her and her parents. But let's look at like this way....I have dated women here in the US (Accountants, Doctors, normal every-day women, etc.). One thing I can say for certain. Women in the US (perhaps particularly in Los Angeles) have expectations that are considerably higher than this young Thai lady (at least for now) and have cost me in real dollar terms an enormous amount of money.

This young Thai lady is very nice and treats me well. So does her family. Blinded or not, after 42 years on this planet, American women aren't my first choice for marriage and kids. $500 a month to this Thai young lady is nothing in comparison. Everyone one of us guys out there is paying money to women in one form or another. If you're not, she won't be around long……

There are certainly differences in culture. You either accept them or you don't. If you plan on marrying someone from onother culture then expect to learn different ways of livng.

Yes people are influenced by their culture, but it is important to realise that people are individuals. I have had plenty of girlfriends in the past and they were all individual with their own unique way of thinking. I now live with my wife in her culture, and have done for a few years, but my wife has her own take on Thai culture.

[garro]

I think that a thing people forget is a lot of westerners with Thai women have already 'lost in love' on a number of occasions. Frequently they have similar problems with their Thai partner as they did with other girlfriends, but instead of examining themselves they look for something wrong with the Thai woman or Thai culture. Some of these people will continue like this, going from relationship to relationship, until they decide that there is something wrong with women as a group.

[jmapodaca]

I always think that it's a bit sad when people refer to other people in regards to the ethnic/national group they belong to rather than to them as individuals. Thai girls are just as unique and individual as people from other countries, and to think otherwise is just ignorance.

Do I understand you correctly? The cultural norms of the "individual's" native country are VERY IMPORTANT to the issue at hand. A THai girl is most definitely different than an American girl, or English girl, or many others. To think otherwise is more than just a tad naive.

Okay, I'm the OP......

Yes, I am giving this young lady $500 a month to help her and her parents. But let's look at like this way....I have dated women here in the US (Accountants, Doctors, normal every-day women, etc.). One thing I can say for certain. Women in the US (perhaps particularly in Los Angeles) have expectations that are considerably higher than this young Thai lady (at least for now) and have cost me in real dollar terms an enormous amount of money.

This young Thai lady is very nice and treats me well. So does her family. Blinded or not, after 42 years on this planet, American women aren't my first choice for marriage and kids. $500 a month to this Thai young lady is nothing in comparison. Everyone one of us guys out there is paying money to women in one form or another. If you're not, she won't be around long……

There are certainly differences in culture. You either accept them or you don't. If you plan on marrying someone from onother culture then expect to learn different ways of livng.

A couple things I'm sure you've thought of, but need to consider. What's she going to do when you are working? School, shopping malls, watching Jerry Springer or ? She won't be able to work legally for a while, so she needs something to pass her time. What's she going to do about friends? Where would she make some friends if you are going to keep her away from Thai town? Is she educated, does she speak good English and has she travelled to other parts of the world, or not? If the answer is little to none to the above three items, then there will be some SERIOUS cuture shock.

This is going to be a big culture shock anyway you look at it. She speaks English fairly well. When she gets here she will start formal English school. My father also teaches English and that should be helpful. I have a realtively large family with many nieces most around her age (family is close).

She hasn't traveled at all. Hence, huge culture shock. I think she'll do fine regardless given the family will be around her. Hopefully she will make friends while going to school. That are of course a lot of unknowns.

[jayjayjayjay]

The "REAL MEN" on the forum claim they don't pay their wife/GF family or the girl nothin'. Your self-respect and hers - out the window. It seems although, that they buy houses and vehicles, gold and other what not's in the sole name of their "true love", in lieu of cash monthly payments. Take her & Mama house shopping. One or two million ought to be good for starters.

I don't mind giving her mom money. I already send her US$500 a month to help out. Quite frankly, I cannot afford to pay her mom 2M, or anywhere near that amount.

Your an i....t, you don't need helping out (troll meter running on ultra-high). You've been sending her mum $500 a month just to help out. Why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bendix, that's the way it's done. You're on the inside already, that's what I read from your understanding. You know the family, you know the people. The nephew has his sites set on a good job, you can help fill the gaps coz you know where he's trying to get to in life.

When guys just start sending money from oversees like the OP here, all I want to do is set up a little racket with 20 or 30 girls, coach them into swooning dumb westerners hearts, I'll write the letters, organise to hopital receipt/invoices, take pictures of the sick family dog etc. Let me do the maths:

30 girls x 20,000 baht a month is 600,000 or $20,000 USD a month. Most of the girls (with the exception of the OP's) would be happy with an extra 10,000 baht a month, that leaves me $15,000 tax free to live on and cover expenses. What do I need, ahh yes, a laptop, internet connection, a few letters, a camera.......... goodness, I think I've just about got the profit loss worked out............. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ farangs are ATM's.

And do I give my gf's mother money....... yes, a thousand or two before Songkran or New Years, sometimes when I know there is a need. So what is different. I speak fluent Thai and know what is going on, i am on the inside!

Edited April 30, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[bendix]

Maybe because he wants to?

What right do any of us have to interfere in other people's financial decisions?

[jmapodaca]

I think that a thing people forget is a lot of westerners with Thai women have already 'lost in love' on a number of occasions. Frequently they have similar problems with their Thai partner as they did with other girlfriends, but instead of examining themselves they look for something wrong with the Thai woman or Thai culture. Some of these people will continue like this, going from relationship to relationship, until they decide that there is something wrong with women as a group.

Yes, men and women all over the world have a hard time looking in the mirror . What one needs to realize is that they're not compatible with everyone and that's not expected . I'm sure everyone following this post has had their fair share of relationship that did not work out. Hopefully, we learn from our mistakes. I've seen my fare share of gold-digger's and seek to avoid them at all costs.

Someone pointed out above that some Thai women are taught to lie, cheat and steal. Perhaps. If my gal is one of them, she is VERY VERY good at it. For much of my career I was an auditor whereby my job, in part, was to determine when someone is lying to me. I've caught several people lying and committing fraud and who longer enjoy their life much anymore. My gut tells me she's genuine and is simply trying to do right by her mama. She specifically states that she wants to earn money and make sure her mama does not have to work in the rice and corn fields until the day she dies. Frankly, I can understand that. I know her mother, I wouldn't want to see that either. In comparison to me and my family they live a very hard life. I don't mind helping a bit.......

Edited April 30, 2008 by jmapodaca

[LooseCannon]

I always think that it's a bit sad when people refer to other people in regards to the ethnic/national group they belong to rather than to them as individuals. Thai girls are just as unique and individual as people from other countries, and to think otherwise is just ignorance.

Do I understand you correctly? The cultural norms of the "individual's" native country are VERY IMPORTANT to the issue at hand. A THai girl is most definitely different than an American girl, or English girl, or many others. To think otherwise is more than just a tad naive.

Okay, I'm the OP......

Yes, I am giving this young lady $500 a month to help her and her parents. But let's look at like this way....I have dated women here in the US (Accountants, Doctors, normal every-day women, etc.). One thing I can say for certain. Women in the US (perhaps particularly in Los Angeles) have expectations that are considerably higher than this young Thai lady (at least for now) and have cost me in real dollar terms an enormous amount of money.

This young Thai lady is very nice and treats me well. So does her family. Blinded or not, after 42 years on this planet, American women aren't my first choice for marriage and kids. $500 a month to this Thai young lady is nothing in comparison. Everyone one of us guys out there is paying money to women in one form or another. If you're not, she won't be around long……

There are certainly differences in culture. You either accept them or you don't. If you plan on marrying someone from onother culture then expect to learn different ways of livng.

A couple things I'm sure you've thought of, but need to consider.  What's she going to do when you are working?  School, shopping malls, watching Jerry Springer or ? She won't be able to work legally for a while, so she needs something to pass her time.  What's she going to do about friends? Where would she make some friends if you are going to keep her away from Thai town? Is she educated, does she speak good English and has she travelled to other parts of the world, or not?  If the answer is little to none to the above three items, then there will be some SERIOUS cuture shock.

What about the corporate functions where you get to take your spouse along?

While personally I would enjoy having a cute 20yo Thai bird at such a function, I think it can be safely said that, the wives of your fellow executives would probably feel a bit threatened, & might be inclined to have a little chat with hubby. You might find your career prospects somewhat in jeopardy.

You can't have the wife of the CEO paranoid that her husband is going to upgrade to a little Thai lady.

The corporate customers might not react very well, I can tell you now they will think the worst, & it is hardly conducive to good 'networking' if you have to explain that 'no, despite what you are thinking, my wife is not a whore'.

Snobbery, prejudgement, petty jealousies are rife in this world, & despite all your best efforts to succeed, it will be other people that bring you undone.

[koheesti]

Oh dear, pointing out that people are more than just a member of a group is not PC, it is a simple fact. If you can't see that, well..

As I said, families are different and have different expectations, just as individuals do. There are many scenarios as to why a family might expect a sinsod and many scenarios as to why they might not. To list them all would be impossible. To just say they are golddiggers or non-golddiggers is too simplictic. A family might want the sinsod without them necessarily being golddiggers and another family might not want the sinsod but ultimately be golddiggers.

The sinsod might be expected because; it's tradition, to save face, the money is needed for the family, payback for money invested in the future wife's education, the future wife wants it as a sign of love/ commitment, the family expect it as a sign of cmmitment, ad nauseam.

Obviously we don't understand each other so I'll just leave it here. If you ever make it down to Samui we can clear it up before we finish our first beer.

[jmapodaca]

I always think that it's a bit sad when people refer to other people in regards to the ethnic/national group they belong to rather than to them as individuals. Thai girls are just as unique and individual as people from other countries, and to think otherwise is just ignorance.

Do I understand you correctly? The cultural norms of the "individual's" native country are VERY IMPORTANT to the issue at hand. A THai girl is most definitely different than an American girl, or English girl, or many others. To think otherwise is more than just a tad naive.

Okay, I'm the OP......

Yes, I am giving this young lady $500 a month to help her and her parents. But let's look at like this way....I have dated women here in the US (Accountants, Doctors, normal every-day women, etc.). One thing I can say for certain. Women in the US (perhaps particularly in Los Angeles) have expectations that are considerably higher than this young Thai lady (at least for now) and have cost me in real dollar terms an enormous amount of money.

This young Thai lady is very nice and treats me well. So does her family. Blinded or not, after 42 years on this planet, American women aren't my first choice for marriage and kids. $500 a month to this Thai young lady is nothing in comparison. Everyone one of us guys out there is paying money to women in one form or another. If you're not, she won't be around long……

There are certainly differences in culture. You either accept them or you don't. If you plan on marrying someone from onother culture then expect to learn different ways of livng.

A couple things I'm sure you've thought of, but need to consider. What's she going to do when you are working? School, shopping malls, watching Jerry Springer or ? She won't be able to work legally for a while, so she needs something to pass her time. What's she going to do about friends? Where would she make some friends if you are going to keep her away from Thai town? Is she educated, does she speak good English and has she travelled to other parts of the world, or not? If the answer is little to none to the above three items, then there will be some SERIOUS cuture shock.

What about the corporate functions where you get to take your spouse along?

While personally I would enjoy having a cute 20yo Thai bird at such a function, I think it can be safely said that, the wives of your fellow executives would probably feel a bit threatened, & might be inclined to have a little chat with hubby. You might find your career prospects somewhat in jeopardy.

You can't have the wife of the CEO paranoid that her husband is going to upgrade to a little Thai lady.

The corporate customers might not react very well, I can tell you now they will think the worst, & it is hardly conducive to good 'networking' if you have to explain that 'no, despite what you are thinking, my wife is not a whore'.

Snobbery, prejudgement, petty jealousies are rife in this world, & despite all your best efforts to succeed, it will be other people that bring you undone.

You make some valid points and I gave it a lot of thought before deciding to go forward. The bosses and CEO's I have worked for in the past, at least 50% have remarried to women considerably younger than them. From what I'm seeing, it's becoming a trend. I conducted my own survey of friends, former colleagues and bosses, other executives from my MBA (executive MBA program) program and discovered that they are seeing the same trend. The general consensus was that it would likely have no impact on my career. Besides, Asian women look young for their age .

[jayjayjayjay]

Maybe because he wants to?

What right do any of us have to interfere in other people's financial decisions?

I think sending 20 k a month is idiotic! No Thai family I know really need 20 k a month from nothing. They where doing fine for the last 40 years without a clown sending 20 k a month. If you see my post, I believe what you do(Bendix) is actually best. Your part of the family already, you know the people involved thus make judgements based on case by case. It's about being responsible with money and ensuring Thai's respond appropriately. I do the same. In the OP's case, sending a blank 20 k a month is beyond me! What for, milk, honey or lao khao!

Edited April 30, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[koheesti]

1. CULTURE SHOCK: America was built on immigrants suffering culture shock in a lot less comfortable conditions than the OP's Thai fiancee will endure. The USA has between 35-40 MILLION foreign-born citizens who had culture shock to some degree. It'll be tough but she should survive.

2. DO YOU SUPPORT YOUR FAMILY BACK HOME?: I have family members "in need" back home but they would still be considered very wealthy by the standard of living in these Thai vilages I've heard so much about. I would send home as much as possible if their living conditions were so poor.

3. SOLUTION TO THE MOTHER-IN-LAW & BORED YOUNG HOUSEWIFE QUESTIONS: Bring the mother-in-law along. Your young wife might have other men tempting her but how many would be willing to take mom as well? In the end having her there could be a good insurance policy. You would also avoid the monthly payments but she'd probably end up drinking more at Starbucks each month.

[jmapodaca]

Maybe because he wants to?

What right do any of us have to interfere in other people's financial decisions?

I think sending 20 k a month is idiotic! No Thai family I know really need 20 k a month from nothing. They where doing fine for the last 40 years without a clown sending 20 k a month. If you see my post, I believe what you do(Bendix) is actually best. Your part of the family already, you know the people involved thus make judgements based on case by case. It's about being responsible with money and ensuring Thai's respond appropriately. I do the same. In the OP's case, sending a blank 20 k a month is beyond me! What for, milk, honey or lao khao!

I'm sending her 15000 Baht a month so she can have fun and give some to her parents when I'm not there. The amount is subjective. I don't have a problem with her now being able to go shopping and buy clothes, make-up, and take her family to the local restraunt, which they were never able to do. She will be here in the US - if her interview goes well - by the first of June.

Then I will give her parents between 8-10K Baht per month for 3 years. Not a lot of money for me and it will make her parents happy, given the face issue around their village. I don't fully understand the face-issue and the need to compete with the neighbors, but that is the Thai culture where she lives. If it saves face for the in-laws, so be it.

[koheesti]

Let me do the maths:

30 girls x 20,000 baht a month is 600,000 or $20,000 USD a month. Most of the girls (with the exception of the OP's) would be happy with an extra 10,000 baht a month, that leaves me $15,000 tax free to live on and cover expenses.

Don't forget that each girl can string along several guys. I've read on this forum about Thai girls at Internet cafes typing emails directly from a book on what to say to guys overseas. It must be a lucrative racket for sure.

[jmapodaca]

1. CULTURE SHOCK: America was built on immigrants suffering culture shock in a lot less comfortable conditions than the OP's Thai fiancee will endure. The USA has between 35-40 MILLION foreign-born citizens who had culture shock to some degree. It'll be tough but she should survive.

2. DO YOU SUPPORT YOUR FAMILY BACK HOME?: I have family members "in need" back home but they would still be considered very wealthy by the standard of living in these Thai vilages I've heard so much about. I would send home as much as possible if their living conditions were so poor.

3. SOLUTION TO THE MOTHER-IN-LAW & BORED YOUNG HOUSEWIFE QUESTIONS: Bring the mother-in-law along. Your young wife might have other men tempting her but how many would be willing to take mom as well? In the end having her there could be a good insurance policy. You would also avoid the monthly payments but she'd probably end up drinking more at Starbucks each month.

Item #3, LOL. You are indeed a strategist. Her mother would absolutely be an insurance policy. I'm not quite ready for that however.....

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Okay, the issue has been resolved.

I want to thank each and every one of you for your comments. Even the sarcastic ones, which only make for good reading. So here goes,

I offered to pay her mama $8-10K Baht per month for 3 years. My first offer and she was very happy and informed me her mother would be happy as well. I guess I should have gone lower....hmmm. I'm not at all certain how she was fine with that so quickly, but she was. Thank my lucky stars it was that easy $320 over 3 years yields and NPV of under US$4K at 8% - unless I get hammered by that F*#@%&^ exchange rate.

I can live with it

I think you need to check your net present value calcs

THB 8k a month is THB 96k a year. At a rate of say THB 32 (nice round number) vs USD 1 that's USD 3k a year. This is before discounting.

For 3 years that's THB 288k or USD 9k before discounting. No way would an 8% discount factor reduce that to USD4k.

Depending on whether payment is in advance or arrears it comes out more at USD8k as an NPV for these 3 year cashflows. THB 10k a month would obviously be higher.

I won't comment on the implications of this for someone who allegedly was a former CFO and has an MBA...and the implications for the thread...

Edited April 30, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS

[jayjayjayjay]

Maybe because he wants to?

What right do any of us have to interfere in other people's financial decisions?

I think sending 20 k a month is idiotic! No Thai family I know really need 20 k a month from nothing. They where doing fine for the last 40 years without a clown sending 20 k a month. If you see my post, I believe what you do(Bendix) is actually best. Your part of the family already, you know the people involved thus make judgements based on case by case. It's about being responsible with money and ensuring Thai's respond appropriately. I do the same. In the OP's case, sending a blank 20 k a month is beyond me! What for, milk, honey or lao khao!

I'm sending her 15000 Baht a month so she can have fun and give some to her parents when I'm not there. The amount is subjective. I don't have a problem with her now being able to go shopping and buy clothes, make-up, and take her family to the local restraunt, which they were never able to do. She will be here in the US - if her interview goes well - by the first of June.

Then I will give her parents between 8-10K Baht per month for 3 years. Not a lot of money for me and it will make her parents happy, given the face issue around their village. I don't fully understand the face-issue and the need to compete with the neighbors, but that is the Thai culture where she lives. If it saves face for the in-laws, so be it.

Sending money to a Thai girl for "face" is pure rubbish, it's a money grab, it's showing off. It's not different from than an LA drug dealer covering himself with gold chains top to bottom. If your not a troll, good luck with this girl, she does not have you or your relationship at heart. Your buying the whole lot, and it will get worse from here!

The greatest testament to your Thai girlfriend, wife or partner is when they DO NOT ask for, or tell you they do not need money..... Try that one, ask her how much is enough. Ask her is 5,000,000 baht or 25,000,000 baht would satidfy her family for ever. Ask how much is enough to clear all issues of face, how much is enough for every cousin, grandparent and great aunty. The only thing I can guarantee you, is the day you sent money like this, the first 1,000,000 baht would be spent on the biggest party there Nakorn Nowhere village had ever seen.

The most important words to hear from a Thai:

When do you think she will say "thanks JM, I don't need any money", when I heard those words, I new I had a partner that I could build a future with(and that comes from 20yrs around Thai's).

[jmapodaca]

Okay, the issue has been resolved.

I want to thank each and every one of you for your comments. Even the sarcastic ones, which only make for good reading. So here goes,

I offered to pay her mama $8-10K Baht per month for 3 years. My first offer and she was very happy and informed me her mother would be happy as well. I guess I should have gone lower....hmmm. I'm not at all certain how she was fine with that so quickly, but she was. Thank my lucky stars it was that easy $320 over 3 years yields and NPV of under US$4K at 8% - unless I get hammered by that F*#@%&^ exchange rate.

I can live with it

I think you need to check your net present value calcs

THB 8k a month is THB 96k a year. At a rate of say THB 32 (nice round number) vs USD 1 that's USD 3k a year. This is before discounting.

For 3 years that's THB 288k or USD 9k before discounting. No way would an 8% discount factor reduce that to USD4k.

Depending on whether payment is in advance or arrears it comes out more at USD8k as an NPV for these 3 year cashflows. THB 10k a month would obviously be higher.

I won't comment on the implications of this for someone who allegedly was a former CFO and has an MBA...and the implications for the thread...

Yeah, you got me. Using the NPV was the wrong method. I'm loosing it......

PV (arrears), $300, 8%, 36 months, = $9,600. dam_n, I hate when I do that

Sorry everyone, I more than double my outlay

Edited April 30, 2008 by jmapodaca

[koheesti]

When do you think she will say "thanks JM, I don't need any money", when I heard those words, I new I had a partner that I could build a future with(and that comes from 20yrs around Thai's).

So you got a smart one. That could prove even more costly in the long run.

[mellow1]

How much would you pay a girlfriend's or wife's mother in your own country per month? I think that's the guideline to follow here as well.

[jayjayjayjay]

When do you think she will say "thanks JM, I don't need any money", when I heard those words, I new I had a partner that I could build a future with(and that comes from 20yrs around Thai's).

So you got a smart one. That could prove even more costly in the long run.

That has come to mind, on more than one occasion.......... 555555 lol

[Steve2UK]

Okay, I'm the OP......

Yes, I am giving this young lady $500 a month to help her and her parents. But let's look at like this way....I have dated women here in the US (Accountants, Doctors, normal every-day women, etc.). One thing I can say for certain. Women in the US (perhaps particularly in Los Angeles) have expectations that are considerably higher than this young Thai lady (at least for now) and have cost me in real dollar terms an enormous amount of money.

This young Thai lady is very nice and treats me well. So does her family. Blinded or not, after 42 years on this planet, American women aren't my first choice for marriage and kids. $500 a month to this Thai young lady is nothing in comparison. Everyone one of us guys out there is paying money to women in one form or another. If you're not, she won't be around long……

There are certainly differences in culture. You either accept them or you don't. If you plan on marrying someone from onother culture then expect to learn different ways of livng.

The two sentences I have highlighted are fundamental to understanding what's wrong here. What you would spend in the US on dating a doctor, accountant etc with US salaries bears absolutely no relation to their professional equivalents here in Thailand - not even in Bangkok let alone in the rural provinces........ let alone an "ordinary" family in the rural provinces. You are comparing the cost to yourself as the giver - completely missing the key point that the main comparison needs to be about the impact on the recipients. It's easy to do and many have made the same mistake - including me albeit on a much smaller and shorter-term scale. I learned from it - you need to do the same.

"This Thai young lady" and maybe even all her family and all the family's neighbours could be the salt of the earth, have hearts of gold etc - but you have sown so many seeds of temptation by parachuting in such disproportionate amounts of money on a monthly basis and at such an early stage of the liaison. Would it be so surprising that someone in that family/village now wants to explore what your limits are? Couple that with a (far from universal) Thai tradition of expecting the suitor to show the measure of his status and commitment by the value of his "giving" and it seems clear that you have now unleashed a volatile mix that makes it all but impossible for you to know where you really are in this relationship.

The second sentence highlighted suggests that you now think you are taking good account of the radical differences in cultures. Sorry to be so harsh, but the $500 per month payment and your continuing defence of it makes it very clear that you are nowhere near understanding even the basics of those differences. $500 per month is not "helping a bit" - it's swamping them with surplus cash. As the cliche goes............. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Others have talked about the payment "for" this girl in the same terms as for negotiating to buy a used car. That is also wrong - but you should not let your recoil from that kind of attitude blind you to the importance of the first point above. You brought yourself, your thinking and your money into Thailand and into this situation - you have the responsibility to think on their behalf as well as your own. So far, IMO, you're still only doing the second part.

[YoungFarang13]

for those saying "how much would you pay your mother in law back home"...

you do realize that most Thais do send money to their parents. therefore, if you marry a thai lady, either she can continue working and send the money she earns to her parents, or you can send it for her.

while many farang are conned into paying too much or whatever, its not like the system is completely corrupt. also, a large percentage of thai parents/grand parents live with their children which obviously leads to their children spending money on them.

[jmapodaca]

Okay, I'm the OP......

Yes, I am giving this young lady $500 a month to help her and her parents. But let's look at like this way....I have dated women here in the US (Accountants, Doctors, normal every-day women, etc.). One thing I can say for certain. Women in the US (perhaps particularly in Los Angeles) have expectations that are considerably higher than this young Thai lady (at least for now) and have cost me in real dollar terms an enormous amount of money.

This young Thai lady is very nice and treats me well. So does her family. Blinded or not, after 42 years on this planet, American women aren't my first choice for marriage and kids. $500 a month to this Thai young lady is nothing in comparison. Everyone one of us guys out there is paying money to women in one form or another. If you're not, she won't be around long……

There are certainly differences in culture. You either accept them or you don't. If you plan on marrying someone from onother culture then expect to learn different ways of livng.

The two sentences I have highlighted are fundamental to understanding what's wrong here. What you would spend in the US on dating a doctor, accountant etc with US salaries bears absolutely no relation to their professional equivalents here in Thailand - not even in Bangkok let alone in the rural provinces........ let alone an "ordinary" family in the rural provinces. You are comparing the cost to yourself as the giver - completely missing the key point that the main comparison needs to be about the impact on the recipients. It's easy to do and many have made the same mistake - including me albeit on a much smaller and shorter-term scale. I learned from it - you need to do the same.

"This Thai young lady" and maybe even all her family and all the family's neighbours could be the salt of the earth, have hearts of gold etc - but you have sown so many seeds of temptation by parachuting in such disproportionate amounts of money on a monthly basis and at such an early stage of the liaison. Would it be so surprising that someone in that family/village now wants to explore what your limits are? Couple that with a (far from universal) Thai tradition of expecting the suitor to show the measure of his status and commitment by the value of his "giving" and it seems clear that you have now unleashed a volatile mix that makes it all but impossible for you to know where you really are in this relationship.

The second sentence highlighted suggests that you now think you are taking good account of the radical differences in cultures. Sorry to be so harsh, but the $500 per month payment and your continuing defence of it makes it very clear that you are nowhere near understanding even the basics of those differences. $500 per month is not "helping a bit" - it's swamping them with surplus cash. As the cliche goes............. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Others have talked about the payment "for" this girl in the same terms as for negotiating to buy a used car. That is also wrong - but you should not let your recoil from that kind of attitude blind you to the importance of the first point above. You brought yourself, your thinking and your money into Thailand and into this situation - you have the responsibility to think on their behalf as well as your own. So far, IMO, you're still only doing the second part.

If I'm going to be honest with myself and others, you're right. From the beginning, I have approached this relationship in error by throwing money around and not considering the impact on her, her family and the neighbors. I don't need to speak fluent Thai to see and understand the impact this has had on the family and her neighbors as it relates to impressions and now, expectations. It has indeed given everyone the wrong impression, which I have had to address - hence the start of this thread. Given the high monthly amount provided her, expectations were high when she thought I may give her mama a lot of Sin Sot money. Perhaps, if I didn't allow the perception of available money the Sin Sot issue may never have come up. Now I'll never know. I believe (hope) the Sin Sot issue is resolved, as noted above, and we can move forward.

I guess to some extent I am trying to justify the amount. I wish I could take it back. If I could do it all over again I would do it much differently.

As someone correctly pointed out above, let them think you have no money and take it from there. Great advice!!! Perhaps, the guy or gal reading this post who is early in their relationship can learn from my mistakes I will have to live with the suituation......

Edited April 30, 2008 by jmapodaca

[barky]

I firmly believe you should pay nothing. I would consider paying money only as part of the custom/ceremony with the absolute assurance I and my new wife were going to have it returned immediately after the marriage.

If not , no marriage end of story!.

[YoungFarang13]

u can get married without the ceremony you know.

[jayjayjayjay]

Okay, I'm the OP......

Yes, I am giving this young lady $500 a month to help her and her parents. But let's look at like this way....I have dated women here in the US (Accountants, Doctors, normal every-day women, etc.). One thing I can say for certain. Women in the US (perhaps particularly in Los Angeles) have expectations that are considerably higher than this young Thai lady (at least for now) and have cost me in real dollar terms an enormous amount of money.

This young Thai lady is very nice and treats me well. So does her family. Blinded or not, after 42 years on this planet, American women aren't my first choice for marriage and kids. $500 a month to this Thai young lady is nothing in comparison. Everyone one of us guys out there is paying money to women in one form or another. If you're not, she won't be around long……

There are certainly differences in culture. You either accept them or you don't. If you plan on marrying someone from onother culture then expect to learn different ways of livng.

The two sentences I have highlighted are fundamental to understanding what's wrong here. What you would spend in the US on dating a doctor, accountant etc with US salaries bears absolutely no relation to their professional equivalents here in Thailand - not even in Bangkok let alone in the rural provinces........ let alone an "ordinary" family in the rural provinces. You are comparing the cost to yourself as the giver - completely missing the key point that the main comparison needs to be about the impact on the recipients. It's easy to do and many have made the same mistake - including me albeit on a much smaller and shorter-term scale. I learned from it - you need to do the same.

"This Thai young lady" and maybe even all her family and all the family's neighbours could be the salt of the earth, have hearts of gold etc - but you have sown so many seeds of temptation by parachuting in such disproportionate amounts of money on a monthly basis and at such an early stage of the liaison. Would it be so surprising that someone in that family/village now wants to explore what your limits are? Couple that with a (far from universal) Thai tradition of expecting the suitor to show the measure of his status and commitment by the value of his "giving" and it seems clear that you have now unleashed a volatile mix that makes it all but impossible for you to know where you really are in this relationship.

The second sentence highlighted suggests that you now think you are taking good account of the radical differences in cultures. Sorry to be so harsh, but the $500 per month payment and your continuing defence of it makes it very clear that you are nowhere near understanding even the basics of those differences. $500 per month is not "helping a bit" - it's swamping them with surplus cash. As the cliche goes............. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Others have talked about the payment "for" this girl in the same terms as for negotiating to buy a used car. That is also wrong - but you should not let your recoil from that kind of attitude blind you to the importance of the first point above. You brought yourself, your thinking and your money into Thailand and into this situation - you have the responsibility to think on their behalf as well as your own. So far, IMO, you're still only doing the second part.

If I'm going to be honest with myself and others, you're right. From the beginning, I have approached this relationship in error by throwing money around and not considering the impact on her, her family and the neighbors. I don't need to speak fluent Thai to see and understand the impact this has had on the family and her neighbors as it relates to impressions and now, expectations. It has indeed given everyone the wrong impression, which I have had to address - hence the start of this thread. Given the high monthly amount provided her, expectations were high when she thought I may give her mama a lot of Sin Sot money. Perhaps, if I didn't allow the perception of available money the Sin Sot issue may never have come up. Now I'll never know. I believe (hope) the Sin Sot issue is resolved, as noted above, and we can move forward.

I guess to some extent I am trying to justify the amount. I wish I could take it back. If I could do it all over again I would do it much differently.

As someone correctly pointed out above, let them think you have no money and take it from there. Great advice!!! Perhaps, the guy or gal reading this post who is early in their relationship can learn from my mistakes I will have to live with the suituation......

Two very good posts (Steve2UK and jmapodaca followup), rationally thought out and presented. To jmapodaca I applaud you on standing back from reactive arguement and looking at this from outside the box, good luck on wheretoo from here, cheers, Jay

[tavarich]

If money is an issue now, at the beginning of the relationship. It will never go away, get it straight with her from the start that you make the money and you will control the money. Thai women want to be in charge and it seems that is the way here. Take control now or you will never have the chance again.

[adjan jb]

I'm one of the lucky b#strads. The In-laws are dead.

[rick75]

To the OP JM I have learnt from your mistakes so if it turns pear shaped for you, rest assured you have educated me a little on how not to approach the situation.

To JayJay, last time I was in Bangers I was chatting with a lovely lady who had a similar deal going, Rich German guy, comes to Bangkok once every three months for a week or two when he comes he brings a couple hundred thousand baht for said lady, he has bought her a brand new car as well, all she has to do is spend that short amount of time with him, she tells me that she gets board easy and that he was no fun and she flicked him, I am like you are crazy, she responds there are plenty more who are willing to do the same thing and I will find a new guy. So JayJay when are we going into business.

[Steve2UK]

Okay, I'm the OP......

Yes, I am giving this young lady $500 a month to help her and her parents. But let's look at like this way....I have dated women here in the US (Accountants, Doctors, normal every-day women, etc.). One thing I can say for certain. Women in the US (perhaps particularly in Los Angeles) have expectations that are considerably higher than this young Thai lady (at least for now) and have cost me in real dollar terms an enormous amount of money.

This young Thai lady is very nice and treats me well. So does her family. Blinded or not, after 42 years on this planet, American women aren't my first choice for marriage and kids. $500 a month to this Thai young lady is nothing in comparison. Everyone one of us guys out there is paying money to women in one form or another. If you're not, she won't be around long……

There are certainly differences in culture. You either accept them or you don't. If you plan on marrying someone from onother culture then expect to learn different ways of livng.

The two sentences I have highlighted are fundamental to understanding what's wrong here. What you would spend in the US on dating a doctor, accountant etc with US salaries bears absolutely no relation to their professional equivalents here in Thailand - not even in Bangkok let alone in the rural provinces........ let alone an "ordinary" family in the rural provinces. You are comparing the cost to yourself as the giver - completely missing the key point that the main comparison needs to be about the impact on the recipients. It's easy to do and many have made the same mistake - including me albeit on a much smaller and shorter-term scale. I learned from it - you need to do the same.

"This Thai young lady" and maybe even all her family and all the family's neighbours could be the salt of the earth, have hearts of gold etc - but you have sown so many seeds of temptation by parachuting in such disproportionate amounts of money on a monthly basis and at such an early stage of the liaison. Would it be so surprising that someone in that family/village now wants to explore what your limits are? Couple that with a (far from universal) Thai tradition of expecting the suitor to show the measure of his status and commitment by the value of his "giving" and it seems clear that you have now unleashed a volatile mix that makes it all but impossible for you to know where you really are in this relationship.

The second sentence highlighted suggests that you now think you are taking good account of the radical differences in cultures. Sorry to be so harsh, but the $500 per month payment and your continuing defence of it makes it very clear that you are nowhere near understanding even the basics of those differences. $500 per month is not "helping a bit" - it's swamping them with surplus cash. As the cliche goes............. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Others have talked about the payment "for" this girl in the same terms as for negotiating to buy a used car. That is also wrong - but you should not let your recoil from that kind of attitude blind you to the importance of the first point above. You brought yourself, your thinking and your money into Thailand and into this situation - you have the responsibility to think on their behalf as well as your own. So far, IMO, you're still only doing the second part.

If I'm going to be honest with myself and others, you're right. From the beginning, I have approached this relationship in error by throwing money around and not considering the impact on her, her family and the neighbors. I don't need to speak fluent Thai to see and understand the impact this has had on the family and her neighbors as it relates to impressions and now, expectations. It has indeed given everyone the wrong impression, which I have had to address - hence the start of this thread. Given the high monthly amount provided her, expectations were high when she thought I may give her mama a lot of Sin Sot money. Perhaps, if I didn't allow the perception of available money the Sin Sot issue may never have come up. Now I'll never know. I believe (hope) the Sin Sot issue is resolved, as noted above, and we can move forward.

I guess to some extent I am trying to justify the amount. I wish I could take it back. If I could do it all over again I would do it much differently.

As someone correctly pointed out above, let them think you have no money and take it from there. Great advice!!! Perhaps, the guy or gal reading this post who is early in their relationship can learn from my mistakes I will have to live with the suituation......

[apologies for not editing the quote to reduce the size - but I suspect that many are skipping through this topic and missing key points]

Having thrown the brickbat, I should at least follow up with a bouquet after seeing your response to my comments. From what you say, you have learned. Who knows - maybe the situation is recoverable given "good heart" on all sides? As a comfort to you - and as a warning to the next one in line - let me say that I really believe that this type (if not scale) of situation is way more common than many on here will admit. Hands up any (mainly male) ThaiVisa member who can honestly claim that when they first arrived here, they never got carried away and splashed their cash around a bit? As I know from my own experience, those thousands of baht that mean so much here look like little more than peanuts when we're sitting in or newly arrived from London, L.A. etc - almost impossible to resist the temptation be the generous "good guy" in that situation.

At the risk of sounding patronising to Thai people, I urge my fellow farang to please try and remember:

1] Very few Thai get to travel outside Thailand let alone to the West

2] Most Thai's first hand experience of westerners is seeing them a] free-spending their way through vacations or b] setting up well-earned retirement or c] living off an expat's salary

3] Most Thai's second hand experience of western lifestyle is from Hollywood movies

4] Most Thai regard 10,000 baht (+/- 2,000 or so depending where) per month salary as doing great

I could go on - but I think that's enough to paint the basic picture. Given that context, this kind of trouble through misunderstanding and distorted perceptions is more likely than not - hence my view that it's the farang who has the responsibility to try to foresee it, understand it and manage it. 10/10 to the OP for trying even if it came late.

One final pearl from me............. While it can be really difficult to say "no" here in Thailand, it's a lot easier - and very useful - to learn how to not say "yes".