Never Invest In Thailand More Than You Can Afford To Lose

[AFKAFSinLOS]

I often read on this forum, and hear from people who claim to be knwoledgeable about Thailand: about "the old adage" of "Never invest more in Thailand than you can walk away from".

I think there is some merit in saying "Be careful investing in Thailand", but that really applies to any investment. Also many examples seem to come down to just poor thought/ planning and getting caught up in dreams (or nightmares) in Thailand that they wouldn't normally do.

Are there any differences for those expats living a fairly "normal family life" compared to those partying/having fun and wanting to extend it.

Are there any circumstances you think it is a risk not to invest here? Such as leaving all your money back home in the US and then getting caught by interest rates, exchange rates, property prices, inflation being different in Thailand. You may not be able to afford losing it, but on the other hand not investing it here could give even bigger problems.

I'd be interested in general thoughts/ views on investing or not here. Investments could obviously cover a wide range of things not just financial, such as stock markets, property, education, emotional aspects, time... etc Reasons to do and not to do etc? As well as simple feedback on the poll and original question.

Look forward to some new thoughts...

Edited May 1, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS

[bendix]

Can't be bothered to vote, but I don't know why we need to add the word 'Thailand' to the phrase.

Surely you should never invest more than you can afford to lose in any environment or country?

Edited May 1, 2008 by bendix

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

There may be a bit more risk because of the uncertainty of the politics. This has to be weighed with the fact that you are not paying any property taxes or rates on the property and you do not pay any capital gain tax after 5 years.

So if you plan to be around a while I think the potential gains can outweigh the risk. This applies more to Condo ownership than a house purchased through a company or a lease. With the company approach it is a bit riskier as they could crack down on them. With a lease the land becomes less valuable every year rather than more valuable like it would in a normal purchase. If you are going to be around for 30 years a lease could end up less expensive than renting for that length of time.

[bkkmick]

Absolutely with Bendix on this one.

[sweetchariot]

For me it's about not building up too many assets here which I may not be able to dispose of.

We've all heard the sob stories about guys getting ripped off by girls for their life savings, and they obviously will be bitter, but this is not my scenario.

I bought a few condo's to provide a rental income to pay for the rent on my house. I knew I would never own the house so refused to buy it. The condo market is dire here at the moment, and if I wanted to sell up and go elsewhere how long would it take?

I am happy to suffer poor interest and exchange rates for security of my capital. I don't even keep much in the bank here and just transfer a few hundred thousand as required.

If, for a number of reasons, I had to leave tomorrow, maybe I could sell the condo's maybe not. Maybe I could sell them at a later date, maybe, maybe, maybe.

If I walked away would it ruin my life? No, but it would p1ss me off quite a bit. Too many people come here to live the dream with their small gratuity/ redundancy/ house sale proceeds, invest the lot in a house/ condo/ bar, and have no exit strategy.

A wealthy friend of mine is involved in money lending up North, he says that if he brought all his assets here he could earn 2-3 times as much as he could at home, but won't do it as he knows he is unlikely to see the capital ever again.

I've just re-read the above, and there's no real point I'm trying to make, just my thoughts.

[funfun]

"I think there is some merit in saying "Be careful investing in Thailand",

as opposed to

"Never invest more in Thailand than you can walk away from"

or

Never invest more in Thailand than you can walk away from and Be very carefull!

[hanibal7]

Applies to anywhere in the world so i wont vote

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Just a few thoughts for those lightning responses: I find that a lot of people seem to need to specify Thailand, both on this forum and elsewhere. As an example, trying googling:

Never Invest In Thailand More Than You Can Afford To Lose

Never Invest In France More Than You Can Afford To Lose

The results: For Thailand quite a few Thailand specific posts come up on the first page. For France (a company with similar population and probably more investment in it by UK and US) no France specific items come up on the first page...Why is that?

Edited May 1, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS

[seagull]

Can't be bothered to vote, but I don't know why we need to add the word 'Thailand' to the phrase.

Surely you should never invest more than you can afford to lose in any environment or country?

1) Op is discussing on subject of investing in Thailand, hence the word "Thailand".

2) Agreed.

[seagull]

Absolutely with Bendix on this one.

Please see Post #09.

[Jingthing]

Well, I voted somewhere in between.

Also I totally disagree with people who think investing in Thailand (or a similar severely xenophobic protectionist nation when you are a FOREIGNER) is the same as investing in a western country.

I have made two investments here. Both are up ON PAPER.

Now whether or not I ever recover baht one of these investments (should I be able to or want to liquidate) is totally unknown. Whether I could ever REPATRIATE the money is totally unknown.

The government, Thai banks, and Thai immigration has total control over us foreigners and it can do anything they want and there is very little we can do about it.

I wouldn't say the old canard, but I would say investing in Thailand (or similar) is a high risk proposition for a foreigner.

Edited May 1, 2008 by Jingthing

[seagull]

Applies to anywhere in the world so i wont vote

Of course it applies to anywhere in the world. But in this regard, the poll applies to Thailand, as the OP may feel that Thailand is at the high end risks !

[WilliamJarvis]

For me this is certainly true - on two fronts:

1. Although visa requirements are not overly onerous in Thailand, when compared to some places, in most cases you will only have 12 month visas. In my mind, your stay in Thailand is only as good as your visa. This may be a rather simple way of looking at things, but to me that makes long-term investments extremely unreliable.

2. Regardless of whether one agrees with this statement or not, in my view Thailand's investment laws are NOT foreigner friendly. In 9 out of every 10 investments you will need the assistance of a Thai partner - even if that is minimal. To me this makes both short-term and long-term investments extremely unreliable. Strangely, on this point, even China has more foreigner friendly investment rules. And to me, this is the crux and the reason why people go elsewhere - they get the more comfort. It is certainly true in my case as I tend to like investing in start-ups, but I'm extremely reluctant to do that in Thailand.

So yes, I would say never invest more in Thailand than you are willing to lose in Las Vegas.

[a2396]

I don't vote on any of the idiotic polls posted here. The results are meaningless. So what? It should be obvious not to invest in property of which you will not have ownership and control. Otherwise, much is a game of chance & skill, as anywhere in the world.

[GuestHouse]

Can't be bothered to vote, but I don't know why we need to add the word 'Thailand' to the phrase.

Surely you should never invest more than you can afford to lose in any environment or country?

1) Op is discussing on subject of investing in Thailand, hence the word "Thailand".

2) Agreed.

It seems we need to point out the obvious again.... This is the ThaiVisa website, where we are discussing issues relating to Thailand and as an aside, the rules of the Forum restrict discussion to Thailand related topics.

It seems therefore that the term 'Thailand' does rightfully belong in the sentence "Never Invest In Thailand More Than You Can Afford To Lose" or at least as it is being discussed here on ThaiVisa.

I do however question the term 'Invest', since I believe the use of this word with respect to making large capital purchases or 'contributions' in Thailand negates the normal sound advice of actually finding out what the local laws are, how they apply to the 'investment' and complying with the law to protect one's 'investment'.

The line of thought that goes "Land/Houses/Stocks/Art Collections' have been solid investments back home - Therefore 'Land/Houses/Stocks/Art Collections' will be solid investments in Thailand" is critically flawed, because in Thailand the laws (and the rules of the game) are different than back home.

Considerable numbers of foreigners have bought and lost properties in Thailand (and continue to do so) and a large truck load of other foreigners have 'invested' in property in Thailand via illegal (or at best dodgy) means.

So I think my own personal advice fits better - 'The biggest lies foreigners hear in Thailand are the lies foreigners tell themselves' - This clearly applies to 'Investments in Thailand'.

Edited May 1, 2008 by GuestHouse

[burman]

I don't vote on any of the idiotic polls posted here. The results are meaningless. So what? It should be obvious not to invest in property of which you will not have ownership and control. Otherwise, much is a game of chance & skill, as anywhere in the world.

Foreigners can own property here.

Buy yes I agree with the posters that say it will never be as safe an investment as in their home countries. There are certainly more risks involved.

And the thread is not just about investment in property anyway.

Edited May 1, 2008 by burman

[burman]

Considerable numbers of foreigners have bought and lost properties in Thailand (and continue to do so) and a large truck load of other foreigners have 'invested' in property in Thailand via illegal (or at best dodgy) means.

A lot of foreign investors have lost properties because they don't seem to invest with the same brain they used in their home countries to make the money in the first place.

[GuestHouse]

And then there is the "Never Invest In Thailand More Than You Can Afford To Lose"

Defining what you can afford to loose is difficult when the the emotions have taken control of reason.

And given the number of guys who turn up in Thailand with the remanents of their divorce settlement - 'More than you can afford to loose' might in truth be 'all you have got left'.

[LinkPopularity]

I think most people make the mistake to think that giving your money away to a woman based on nothing else but personal trust is an investment ...

it's perfectly safe ( as much as anywhere else) to actually invest here ... as long you're actually talking about an investment that is ...

[WilliamJarvis]

^ you may be right, and while slightly out of date, reading this article http://www.siamlaw.co.th/publications/keyaspdec04.htm would have me thinking otherwise

[seagull]

Foresight and diligent ! and topmost, who do you know. If all these fails, walk away.

[mikethevigoman]

Can't be bothered to vote, but I don't know why we need to add the word 'Thailand' to the phrase.

Surely you should never invest more than you can afford to lose in any environment or country?

1) Op is discussing on subject of investing in Thailand, hence the word "Thailand".

2) Agreed.

It seems we need to point out the obvious again.... This is the ThaiVisa website, where we are discussing issues relating to Thailand and as an aside, the rules of the Forum restrict discussion to Thailand related topics.

It seems therefore that the term 'Thailand' does rightfully belong in the sentence "Never Invest In Thailand More Than You Can Afford To Lose" or at least as it is being discussed here on ThaiVisa.

I do however question the term 'Invest', since I believe the use of this word with respect to making large capital purchases or 'contributions' in Thailand negates the normal sound advice of actually finding out what the local laws are, how they apply to the 'investment' and complying with the law to protect one's 'investment'.

The line of thought that goes "Land/Houses/Stocks/Art Collections' have been solid investments back home - Therefore 'Land/Houses/Stocks/Art Collections' will be solid investments in Thailand" is critically flawed, because in Thailand the laws (and the rules of the game) are different than back home.

Considerable numbers of foreigners have bought and lost properties in Thailand (and continue to do so) and a large truck load of other foreigners have 'invested' in property in Thailand via illegal (or at best dodgy) means.

So I think my own personal advice fits better - 'The biggest lies foreigners hear in Thailand are the lies foreigners tell themselves' - This clearly applies to 'Investments in Thailand'.

I think what it really means is ,dont give away more than you can afford to lose In Thailand, as thats what many do ,.

[Jeffery Stanthorpe]

Man, I've been in Pattaya now a few years and you see so many places here today and gone tomorrow.

I invested all my cash in the states cause its got the strongest economy in the world,

I mean like, you're not going to get any crazy generals toppling the president, right !

[Naam]

It seems we need to point out the obvious again.... This is the ThaiVisa website, where we are discussing issues relating to Thailand and as an aside, the rules of the Forum restrict discussion to Thailand related topics.

true! a dozen or more purely Thailand related topics such as "Will Ronaldinho join Dynamo Vladivostok or sign up with Real Madrid?" prove your claim

[Naam]

I invested all my cash in the states cause its got the strongest economy in the world,

:D

[Naam]

Look forward to some new thoughts...

besides the roof over my head and some cash in a thai bank i wouldn't invest a single penny in Thailand. that is not an advice, only my personal view based on my situation. those who have to make a living by running a business in Thailand, with perhaps a thai wife and children have no other choice than investing locally.

[Beardog]

As for investment to make capital Thailand isn't a great Idea. There are better returns in many countries. Maybe U.S. if you can buy now & sit on it for 5-8 years.

Leaving money in your girls name. Definitely do not put in more than you can walk away from.

Condo's who knows with the whims & the fickleness of the government here about as safe as any way you bought.

Here today gone tomorrow!

[Crushdepth]

"Never Invest in Thailand More Than You Can Afford to Lose".

Should have been 'never invest in any market that you don't understand'.

[Scott]

I've seen some people get majorly burned here--but that was mostly around the time of the 1997 crash. I didn't have any money invested--although I had been told I was 'stupid' not to. Since then I've seen some people get burned, but this was mostly stupidity on their part--scams and deals that were too good to be true, or downright illegal.

I would tend to be very careful here and yes, I agree that you shouldn't invest more than you can afford to lose anywhere.

[bruceboy]

Let's say a non-Thai person gives money to their boy or girlfriend to buy a home.

Is this considered investing in Thailand?