To All 'new' Catfish Pond Owners

[RedBullHorn]

I was invited to my friend's catfish farm (Big Ooi) the other day. He's very new to fish farming, invested in a new pond(about 28m x 25m)and put in 25'000 fingerlings(3-4").

After observing for a while...i asked if he mind that i give him some comment and advise, sensing some thing wrong and admitted he didn't prepare the pond properly, he was eager to know what was missing.

1. He didn't lime the entire pond...not a bit at all, no EM no dry cow manuring.

2. I notice a lot of wild fishes, and to my horror! Sand Gobblers and and Pla Chon(snakehead) with its

"kidsssssss!!!"(and mom's head measuring approximately 3-4 fingers wide) , when ask if he's doing

this for leisure? He said no..."Its for buisness"...25'000 fingerlings may be wipe out leaving only 5'000

during havesting.

He didn't filter water inlet properly and it is also costly when fishes compete for pellet feed.

3. He's Big Ooi are floating on its head 'vertically' by the thousandsssss and he thought they were

'resting with a full belly' after a good feeding. Answer: It is disease and the poor fishes are sick and

will die if left untreated. Cure it with TRIMETVET(about 180-200 Baht per pack. 100 gm), read the

instruction for proportion, stir in water and mix in with your number 1 pellet feed(fingerlings),

pellets should be 'moist' NOT damp or wet, sun it (if you have the time)...

repeat every feeding for 5-7 days

I hope this will help for TV new catfish farmer...It help if others TV member could also contribute any other cause and cure method here...

...RBH

[ozzydom]

RedBullHorn, Your friend obviously didnt do much research before jumping in,latest reports suggest that with feed costs at their present high, costs are exceeding returns growing catfish.

[Somtham]

RedBullHorn, Your friend obviously didnt do much research before jumping in,latest reports suggest that with feed costs at their present high, costs are exceeding returns growing catfish.

We currently pay B21.5/kg for 30% feed so with a FCR of 1.4 it will cost just over B30/kg of fish. Around here wholesale price is now at B33 so doesn't leave much margin for power and labor. With the pla Chon in the pond I think he'll be lucky to get a FCR of 2.

Is it possible for him to save on the pellets and feed the fish worms?

rgds

[ozzydom]

Somtham, Getting enough worms at the right price would be the problem.

The rising costs have everybody in a spin,CP stopped delivering fish food for about 2 weeks and when the new supplies arrived they had raised the prices.

I think Tilapia got out of catfish to concentrate on Pla Nin because of the poor bottom line and he has his own feed plant,so its pretty grim.

Maybe we are headed back to the days of growing carp in the rice paddies to cut costs.

[Khonwan]

And the outlook isn't getting brighter with the feed producers asking the government for permission to increase the sale price by 10-20%.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Somtham]

Somtham, Getting enough worms at the right price would be the problem.

The rising costs have everybody in a spin,CP stopped delivering fish food for about 2 weeks and when the new supplies arrived they had raised the prices.

I think Tilapia got out of catfish to concentrate on Pla Nin because of the poor bottom line and he has his own feed plant,so its pretty grim.

Maybe we are headed back to the days of growing carp in the rice paddies to cut costs.

I thought RedBull was raising worms.

Anyway, we're in the process of shutting down the catfish farm due to the rising costs of feed. Probably another 4 ton or so to sell. With your and Macan's advice we have just stocked one pond with pla Top Tim and Sawei and another pond with mixed pla Nin and Barramundi. They were stocked at low densities with the plan of little to no supplemental feed.

rgds

[PhimaiPaul]

A quick question on Barramundi.Can Barramundi be reared in fresh water?

I am sure they can't breed but i am not really sure what they can grow

like in a fresh water pond.

Thanks

Paul

Edited May 4, 2008 by PhimaiPaul

[Khonwan]

I thought RedBull was raising worms.

Anyway, we're in the process of shutting down the catfish farm due to the rising costs of feed. Probably another 4 ton or so to sell. With your and Macan's advice we have just stocked one pond with pla Top Tim and Sawei and another pond with mixed pla Nin and Barramundi. They were stocked at low densities with the plan of little to no supplemental feed.

rgds

Hi Somtham

I think you may be thinking of RedBicycle.

Sorry to see your catfish farming hasn't worked out. We stocked our pond with Pla Sawei a few months ago - low density and no supplemental feed. I should really try to net a few to see how they're growing...or if there's any left: didn't notice any whilst swimming last week! I expect they were taking refuge under the Pak Boong.

Best regards

Khonwan

[Crushdepth]

Can Barramundi be reared in fresh water?

Yes but they don't taste anywhere near as good as ones reared in seawater. I'd rather eat tilapia actually.

[Somtham]

Hi Somtham

I think you may be thinking of RedBicycle.

Sorry to see your catfish farming hasn't worked out. We stocked our pond with Pla Sawei a few months ago - low density and no supplemental feed. I should really try to net a few to see how they're growing...or if there's any left: didn't notice any whilst swimming last week! I expect they were taking refuge under the Pak Boong.

Best regards

Khonwan

Yeh, bummer on the catfish. We actually sold 32 tons last year with about 2 rai of ponds but dealing with the wholesaler has just become too much hassle and took the fun out of it along with the high feed costs.

We stocked about 30 Sawei in the settling pond last year and they're now about 3-4kg with no supplemental feed. Odered a small "long see" last week for the uncle so we should get a constant supply of laam for feeding the fish.

rgds

[englissx]

Gentlemen,

i have just had alake dug out for my fishing while up country, can anybody tell me where I can get stock fish in the Issan area, specifically Kallasin area, and if so what type of fish are available for stocking.

Thanks

[allcladrad]

A quick question on Barramundi.Can Barramundi be reared in fresh water?

I am sure they can't breed but i am not really sure what they can grow

like in a fresh water pond.

Paul,

I have them in my fresh water pond. I took a water sample to the the govenment fisheries office and they checked for the amount of salt, found none and acculmated a batch of fry for me.

[ozzydom]

I put some less than 1" fry in just before Xmas ,I caught and weighed one last week at 400gram so they are doing ok ( plenty of baby tilapia in that pond to chomp on).

Nam Sai Farm where I bought my stock has them to 19kg in their big pond (lake).

[Somtham]

Ok back to the OP with some questions.

...

2. I notice a lot of wild fishes, and to my horror! Sand Gobblers and and Pla Chon(snakehead) with its

"kidsssssss!!!"(and mom's head measuring approximately 3-4 fingers wide) , when ask if he's doing

this for leisure? He said no..."Its for buisness"...25'000 fingerlings may be wipe out leaving only 5'000

during havesting.

He didn't filter water inlet properly and it is also costly when fishes compete for pellet feed.

Where was this individual getting the water from and how was the water moved to their pond? I can't see a 3-4 finger pla chon getting sucked through a pump.

3. He's Big Ooi are floating on its head 'vertically' by the thousandsssss and he thought they were

'resting with a full belly' after a good feeding. Answer: It is disease and the poor fishes are sick and

will die if left untreated.

I found this bobbing to be typical of fry after eating on every batch I raised. What disease is it that you refer to that needs this treatment?

rgds

[ozzydom]

I thought it was natural behaviour because they had them in big glass aquariums at the fisheries dept and they were doing just that.

[golden223]

RedBullHorn, Your friend obviously didnt do much research before jumping in,latest reports suggest that with feed costs at their present high, costs are exceeding returns growing catfish.

We currently pay B21.5/kg for 30% feed so with a FCR of 1.4 it will cost just over B30/kg of fish. Around here wholesale price is now at B33 so doesn't leave much margin for power and labor. With the pla Chon in the pond I think he'll be lucky to get a FCR of 2.

Is it possible for him to save on the pellets and feed the fish worms?

rgds

Hi Somtham,

How do you calculate FCR? What is the Mathematic formulate to calculate? What if i decide to market my fish at average 200 grams or maybe 6 fishes per kg, how do you calculate the FCR?

Regards

[Khonwan]

RedBullHorn, Your friend obviously didnt do much research before jumping in,latest reports suggest that with feed costs at their present high, costs are exceeding returns growing catfish.

We currently pay B21.5/kg for 30% feed so with a FCR of 1.4 it will cost just over B30/kg of fish. Around here wholesale price is now at B33 so doesn't leave much margin for power and labor. With the pla Chon in the pond I think he'll be lucky to get a FCR of 2.

Is it possible for him to save on the pellets and feed the fish worms?

rgds

Hi Somtham,

How do you calculate FCR? What is the Mathematic formulate to calculate? What if i decide to market my fish at average 200 grams or maybe 6 fishes per kg, how do you calculate the FCR?

Regards

FCR (Food Conversion Ratio) simply indicates how many units of the feed has to be eaten by the fish (or any other animal) to gain one unit of weight. An FCR of 2 means 2kg of feed has to be consumed to produce a weight increase of 1kg.

Rgds

Khonwan

[RedBullHorn]

Ok back to the OP with some questions.

...

2. I notice a lot of wild fishes, and to my horror! Sand Gobblers and and Pla Chon(snakehead) with its

"kidsssssss!!!"(and mom's head measuring approximately 3-4 fingers wide) , when ask if he's doing

this for leisure? He said no..."Its for buisness"...25'000 fingerlings may be wipe out leaving only 5'000

during havesting.

He didn't filter water inlet properly and it is also costly when fishes compete for pellet feed.

Where was this individual getting the water from and how was the water moved to their pond? I can't see a 3-4 finger pla chon getting sucked through a pump.

3. He's Big Ooi are floating on its head 'vertically' by the thousandsssss and he thought they were

'resting with a full belly' after a good feeding. Answer: It is disease and the poor fishes are sick and

will die if left untreated.

I found this bobbing to be typical of fry after eating on every batch I raised. What disease is it that you refer to that needs this treatment?

rgds

He pond is beside a running stream, he didn't pump in the water, concrete pipe instead of PVC was use, buried in the dam between pond and stream, water sip in between concrete pipe cause by erosion and not spotted by trained eye.

If you throw a piece of dirt at it, if it is alert and frighten by the sudden commotion, it would dive out of sight immediately. if not, it would wriggle very weakly, still floating around and not alert. You see, out of the thousandsssssss when i stomp my feet and throw dirt at them, i would said 3 out of 10 were still floating around, some i could even scoup it up with my hand...(i treat every new batch rise with medication the first 7-10 days)

I advise he not to take it to heart, in the beginning, there's always lessons learnt. I told he to consider integration with pigs.

[ozzydom]

Ok back to the OP with some questions.

...

2. I notice a lot of wild fishes, and to my horror! Sand Gobblers and and Pla Chon(snakehead) with its

"kidsssssss!!!"(and mom's head measuring approximately 3-4 fingers wide) , when ask if he's doing

this for leisure? He said no..."Its for buisness"...25'000 fingerlings may be wipe out leaving only 5'000

during havesting.

He didn't filter water inlet properly and it is also costly when fishes compete for pellet feed.

Where was this individual getting the water from and how was the water moved to their pond? I can't see a 3-4 finger pla chon getting sucked through a pump.

3. He's Big Ooi are floating on its head 'vertically' by the thousandsssss and he thought they were

'resting with a full belly' after a good feeding. Answer: It is disease and the poor fishes are sick and

will die if left untreated.

I found this bobbing to be typical of fry after eating on every batch I raised. What disease is it that you refer to that needs this treatment?

rgds

He pond is beside a running stream, he didn't pump in the water, concrete pipe instead of PVC was use, buried in the dam between pond and stream, water sip in between concrete pipe cause by erosion and not spotted by trained eye.

If you throw a piece of dirt at it, if it is alert and frighten by the sudden commotion, it would dive out of sight immediately. if not, it would wriggle very weakly, still floating around and not alert. You see, out of the thousandsssssss when i stomp my feet and throw dirt at them, i would said 3 out of 10 were still floating around, some i could even scoup it up with my hand...(i treat every new batch rise with medication the first 7-10 days)

I advise he not to take it to heart, in the beginning, there's always lessons learnt. I told he to consider integration with pigs.

RBH,why would you integrate pigs with catfish?

[ozzydom]

Ok back to the OP with some questions.

...

2. I notice a lot of wild fishes, and to my horror! Sand Gobblers and and Pla Chon(snakehead) with its

"kidsssssss!!!"(and mom's head measuring approximately 3-4 fingers wide) , when ask if he's doing

this for leisure? He said no..."Its for buisness"...25'000 fingerlings may be wipe out leaving only 5'000

during havesting.

He didn't filter water inlet properly and it is also costly when fishes compete for pellet feed.

Where was this individual getting the water from and how was the water moved to their pond? I can't see a 3-4 finger pla chon getting sucked through a pump.

3. He's Big Ooi are floating on its head 'vertically' by the thousandsssss and he thought they were

'resting with a full belly' after a good feeding. Answer: It is disease and the poor fishes are sick and

will die if left untreated.

I found this bobbing to be typical of fry after eating on every batch I raised. What disease is it that you refer to that needs this treatment?

rgds

He pond is beside a running stream, he didn't pump in the water, concrete pipe instead of PVC was use, buried in the dam between pond and stream, water sip in between concrete pipe cause by erosion and not spotted by trained eye.

If you throw a piece of dirt at it, if it is alert and frighten by the sudden commotion, it would dive out of sight immediately. if not, it would wriggle very weakly, still floating around and not alert. You see, out of the thousandsssssss when i stomp my feet and throw dirt at them, i would said 3 out of 10 were still floating around, some i could even scoup it up with my hand...(i treat every new batch rise with medication the first 7-10 days)

I advise he not to take it to heart, in the beginning, there's always lessons learnt. I told he to consider integration with pigs.

RBH,why would you integrate pigs with catfish?

[RedBullHorn]

Ok back to the OP with some questions.

...

2. I notice a lot of wild fishes, and to my horror! Sand Gobblers and and Pla Chon(snakehead) with its

"kidsssssss!!!"(and mom's head measuring approximately 3-4 fingers wide) , when ask if he's doing

this for leisure? He said no..."Its for buisness"...25'000 fingerlings may be wipe out leaving only 5'000

during havesting.

He didn't filter water inlet properly and it is also costly when fishes compete for pellet feed.

Where was this individual getting the water from and how was the water moved to their pond? I can't see a 3-4 finger pla chon getting sucked through a pump.

3. He's Big Ooi are floating on its head 'vertically' by the thousandsssss and he thought they were

'resting with a full belly' after a good feeding. Answer: It is disease and the poor fishes are sick and

will die if left untreated.

I found this bobbing to be typical of fry after eating on every batch I raised. What disease is it that you refer to that needs this treatment?

rgds

He pond is beside a running stream, he didn't pump in the water, concrete pipe instead of PVC was use, buried in the dam between pond and stream, water sip in between concrete pipe cause by erosion and not spotted by trained eye.

If you throw a piece of dirt at it, if it is alert and frighten by the sudden commotion, it would dive out of sight immediately. if not, it would wriggle very weakly, still floating around and not alert. You see, out of the thousandsssssss when i stomp my feet and throw dirt at them, i would said 3 out of 10 were still floating around, some i could even scoup it up with my hand...(i treat every new batch rise with medication the first 7-10 days)

I advise he not to take it to heart, in the beginning, there's always lessons learnt. I told he to consider integration with pigs.

RBH,why would you integrate pigs with catfish?

Well, he can't do much at this point now with the Sand Gobblers and Snakehead and wild Tilapia and other feed competitors... I said to him since he has another pond free, prepare it properly and use it for business purpose. As for the first pond... build a bamboo shed over it and i'll give him 5 piglets(SOW) to start for strictly for breeding piglets in near future(i made profit of nearly 60'000 Baht from 3 batches of pigs raised and sold from 1 sow last year and i got 3 sows,Duroc & White hybrid) so by the time his sows deliver the first batch of piglets, raise and sold in about a year time, the pond is ready for havesting. Very little to no feed is necessary, by that time, the CF will be 600-800 grams and depends on how many are left, pla Chon and pla Bu will feed on Tilapia, CF and other wild fishes fries and shrimp, snail Sherly, crabs, tapoles...Put up a light tube + UV and you'll have endless storm of insects like meng maan, meng john, Beatles, crickets, termites......(proteins!) and no forgetting above the water, you'll have pigs manure(plankton creator for fishes like of Tilapia) and food scrap that fell through the shed flooring gaps...

Pigs food= Ram+Pellets+Village school kitchen waste+water. I know...not your ideal muscles builder, Hey! i did this, in Less than 5 months, my Duroc hybrid achieve 70-80 kg a pig(not the ideal 110+ in 4 months with pellet alone)not bad for 13 piggies+mom, cost per batch 12'000+- Baht, and meat price was at year low of 35 Baht a kilo.

I'm no expert...but i've to think and act like the local when live is hard(gas price up= all commodities price up). Once a week, i feed my......(my beloved pigs banana trunks,it's a treat. I bought! not free! I thanks them for what they provide me, i treat my wife and kid to 1" T-Bone steak in a famous restaurant) Some time i'll ask for free maize that fall out of the trailer which's been loaded from local maize farmers...Gosh! they're so nice to me(They respect me,a foreigner who can live and think(drink!) like them)

OK! Back to my friend, i suggested this because his wife own 70 rai of rice field and a rice mill(his wife's dad use to raise pigs because they own a mill but pass away and no family member took over because they don't want to dirty their hands)

Lastly! I sold 53 tons of Big Ooi with 2 rai of pond last last. As i said, i'm no expert, i just follow the tricks learn. Don't ask, I won't tell anymore.

Rdgs.

RedBullHorn

(Not RedBicycle)

[Tilapia]

Yes, I stopped with catfish in open earth ponds, the margin is to small, even when I make my own feed for 15 baht/kg for 30% protein. We now do Pla Nin and Tap Tim in recirculation systems, and that works ok, we are in control of the water at all time, and there are no predators to deal with. We have Pla Sawai in the system as well, and we are going to try with Baramundi, one problem is that the need to learn to eat pellets, and they have to be with a very high protein level 45-50% and then it's hard to get the pellets to float.