Can A Monk Who Chain Smokes Thai Roll Your Own Tobbaco Give Good Advise?

[rockyysdt]

On this holiday I'm off the beaten track deep in Isaan country and living with locals.

Within me I feel there are two.

The deeply flawed human with all my weaknesses and vices, and the one who seeks the answer to life.

I recently met a monk and through an interpreter asked him if he could give me any incites.

He said 'practice daily".

Simple as this was, it came through to me as quite profound.

One of my obstacles has been a lack of will power to stick to my regular practice.

I have read that our minds can be very judgmental and this is one our ego remains in charge.

This monk as it turns out is a chain smoker of filterless roll your own thai tobacco.

My mind immediately placed him in rank and credibility below me.

How could a monk destroy a major vehicle of meditation, his lungs?

Is he a malingerer, wearing the robe as a way of avoiding a hard life of low paid work?

I'll ignore my thoughts and simply observe and learn.

His advise after all can't be falted.

I do however wander about his own personal path.

Do many monks smoke?

Is he cheating the system or is he blind to his actions?

Edited May 4, 2008 by rockyysdt

[Austhaied]

So what if he is all that you say.

I thought it was meant to be about you.

You have to look within yourself, not others.

Good luck on your path.

[garro]

Ajahn Chah, who is one of the most respected Thai monks, and especially dear to westerners, occasionally smoked cigarettes.

[Scott]

Of course, everyone has flaws, as this man does, but his advice is good. Some of the best advice I've ever gotten were from people who in a particularly bad situation.

By the way, I wouldn't ask him for advice on what brand of cigarettes is best, though.

[toptuan]

It's human nature (and usually good advice, also) to consider the source of advice. Is it not?

[Austhaied]

Nothing in the Vinaya (the 227 precepts followed in the Sangha) regarding cigarettes. Even roll your owns.

http://www.dhammadana.org/en/samgha/vinaya/227.htm

[jamesc2000]

You don't have to be perfect to give good advice and

there are a lot of very important people that talk nonsense!

imho of course!

[rockyysdt]

Nothing in the Vinaya (the 227 precepts followed in the Sangha) regarding cigarettes. Even roll your owns.

http://www.dhammadana.org/en/samgha/vinaya/227.htm

Hi Aust.

You appear to be an authority on the contents of Vinaya.

Is your post meant to be light hearted humour (interner interaction can be 2 dimensional)?

Although the Vinya may not cover cigarettes specifically, I'm sure there's some reference to caring for your body. If not, our intellect tells us that the breathe, or breathing is an integral part of formal and informal meditation. Damage to your lungs can have a critical impact on your ability to become self aware. Most who smoke heavily have gradually dulled their self awareness considerably. An example of this is for a non smoker to inhale in a day the same number of smokes a heavy smoker inhales. The non smoker may possibly collapse or become quite distressed while the smoker, dulled by the passage of time, continues to inhale with no consequence, except to his health.

With the current world knowledge on the harmful effects of smoking, nothing more need be said.

Garro Ajahn Chah, who is one of the most respected Thai monks, and especially dear to westerners, occasionally smoked cigarettes

I'm often concerned about the ranking of people, as this suggests ego. Enlightenment is an ego less state.

I've read that those who have scaled self awareness to great heights are amongst the most humble of us.

We all have weaknesses, but those who profess to be leaders have a greater responsibility to lead by example.

jamesc2000 You don't have to be perfect to give good advice and

there are a lot of very important people that talk nonsense!

imho of course!

Hi James.

I agree with you.

My only concern was that this particular monk appears to be lost from the path.

In fact judging by the nicotine levels of filterless tobacco, he has a serious addiction and perhaps is wasting his time. I'm also surprised that the group he is associated with haven't either corrected his path, or suggested he choose another career. When on retreat, one presents daily to the head monk for further guidance and correction. The monk in question appears to be missing out on constructive feedback or isn't serious about his chosen path.

I don't want to sound critical but I care to an extent about where the monk is headed (self delusion), not to mention the damage he imparts to his profession and the credibility of his temple.

[khunandy]

Just dont ask him for any advice on how to stop smoking

I often contemplate the meaning of life while sucking back a lung full

[jumnien]

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche was a great writer of Buddhist practice in the 1960,s in America. One of the best spiritual writers on Buddhism, I'd say. Also, a wicked alcoholic. Go figure!

[rockyysdt]

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche was a great writer of Buddhist practice in the 1960,s in America. One of the best spiritual writers on Buddhism, I'd say. Also, a wicked alcoholic. Go figure!

Many people I meet think enlightenment is fictional and view adherants in the same way as they due religious zealots.

If Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche was an alcoholic and smoker whilst practicing, then knowledge of this would help confirm the views of non adherants.

[jumnien]

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche was a great writer of Buddhist practice in the 1960,s in America. One of the best spiritual writers on Buddhism, I'd say. Also, a wicked alcoholic. Go figure!

Many people I meet think enlightenment is fictional and view adherants in the same way as they due religious zealots.

If Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche was an alcoholic and smoker whilst practicing, then knowledge of this would help confirm the views of non adherants.

Care to translate?

[IMA_FARANG]

On this holiday I'm off the beaten track deep in Isaan country and living with locals.

Within me I feel there are two.

The deeply flawed human with all my weaknesses and vices, and the one who seeks the answer to life.

I recently met a monk and through an interpreter asked him if he could give me any incites.

He said 'practice daily".

Simple as this was, it came through to me as quite profound.

One of my obstacles has been a lack of will power to stick to my regular practice.

I have read that our minds can be very judgmental and this is one our ego remains in charge.

This monk as it turns out is a chain smoker of filterless roll your own thai tobacco.

My mind immediately placed him in rank and credibility below me.

How could a monk destroy a major vehicle of meditation, his lungs?

Is he a malingerer, wearing the robe as a way of avoiding a hard life of low paid work?

I'll ignore my thoughts and simply observe and learn.

His advise after all can't be falted.

I do however wander about his own personal path.

Do many monks smoke?

Is he cheating the system or is he blind to his actions?

Simple solution: if his smoking bothers you....respectfully and without criticising....simply find another teacher.

However, as someone mentioned above, there is no particular proscription about smoking, even "roll your owns".

And also...no criticisim implied again...but it might be wise to look to your own "right livelyhood"....to censuring not the conduct of others, but your own conduct first.

If the smoke bothers you, the next time you are with him, wear one of those masks like the Thai traffic police to block your brathing of the fumes. If your monk doesn't understand the least he can do is kick you out.

Perhaps he is testing you, to see how you react to his smoking? And how long it takes before you do react to his smoking?

Perhaps he is testing you to see how long/and if your Ego still controls you?

Think about that.

Edited May 6, 2008 by IMA_FARANG

[jumnien]

Chances are he smokes because he is addicted!

[Plus]

You don't say!

Someone will soon come up with a clever explanation how addiction to drugs is not an obstacle on the path of a 'real" Buddhist.

Tobacco wasn't "discovered" until 2000 years after Buddha, that might explain why it's not mentioned in Vinaya. That actually opens up a lot of opportunities, like wasting all your free time on social websites or watching football in the middle of the night.

On the other hand one can find a valuable lesson practically in any situation. Like, for example, the importance of daily practice is not lost even on a chain smoker.

[Austhaied]

You don't say!

Someone will soon come up with a clever explanation how addiction to drugs is not an obstacle on the path of a 'real" Buddhist.

Tobacco wasn't "discovered" until 2000 years after Buddha, that might explain why it's not mentioned in Vinaya. That actually opens up a lot of opportunities, like wasting all your free time on social websites or watching football in the middle of the night.

On the other hand one can find a valuable lesson practically in any situation. Like, for example, the importance of daily practice is not lost even on a chain smoker.

The point here should not be the history of tobacco http://www.tobacco.org/History/Tobacco_History.html ,but the fact that the OP is looking at someone else's issues without looking at his own..

Judgement of others would be the first thing to look "into".

Edited May 7, 2008 by Austhaied

[Brucenkhamen]

The point here should not be the history of tobacco http://www.tobacco.org/History/Tobacco_History.html ,but the fact that the OP is looking at someone else's issues without looking at his own..

Judgement of others would be the first thing to look "into".

Surely the fact that he is taking the time to ask somebody for advice indicates that he is in fact trying to look at his own issues.

[Austhaied]

The point here should not be the history of tobacco http://www.tobacco.org/History/Tobacco_History.html ,but the fact that the OP is looking at someone else's issues without looking at his own..

Judgement of others would be the first thing to look "into".

Surely the fact that he is taking the time to ask somebody for advice indicates that he is in fact trying to look at his own issues.

Good point.

[rockyysdt]

You don't say!

Someone will soon come up with a clever explanation how addiction to drugs is not an obstacle on the path of a 'real" Buddhist.

Tobacco wasn't "discovered" until 2000 years after Buddha, that might explain why it's not mentioned in Vinaya. That actually opens up a lot of opportunities, like wasting all your free time on social websites or watching football in the middle of the night.

On the other hand one can find a valuable lesson practically in any situation. Like, for example, the importance of daily practice is not lost even on a chain smoker.

The point here should not be the history of tobacco http://www.tobacco.org/History/Tobacco_History.html ,but the fact that the OP is looking at someone else's issues without looking at his own..

Judgement of others would be the first thing to look "into".

Hi Austhaied

I already admitted that I'm deeply flawed and live in duality (ego vs seeker of egoless).

Please don't take my ramblings as an attempt to appear better than others, but simply echoing my ego state.

Having said that I do believe my point is a valid subject for debate.

nb: this monk is not my teacher but a person who was introduced.

My ego state says:

"This monk is openly negligent about his chosen career. I didn't mention the odd 40% proof whiskey he also knocks consumes. He lives off donations, much of which come from poor folk who must eek out a living. He has a grand opportunity to explore enlightenment on the backs of many, but openly squanders this. If not for himself, why can't he show respect to his sponsors?"

Am I overreacting?

[Brucenkhamen]

Am I overreacting?

The issue of monks smoking was covered in detail here recently at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...&hl=smoking so probably people don't want to go over it again.

Take whatever value there is in his advice at face value and move on and find a teacher who inspires you.

[sabaijai]

Am I overreacting?

The issue of monks smoking was covered in detail here recently at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...&hl=smoking so probably people don't want to go over it again.

Take whatever value there is in his advice at face value and move on and find a teacher who inspires you.

Yes and in light of Brucenkhamen pointing out the obvious, we'll close this thread and let the discussion shift to that original thread, as it appears to be active again.