Land Purchase

[raybingham]

Sorry to trouble you, I have looked for pinned items re land

purchase.

I am looking for the basic guidelines on protecting one's interests

when buying land in G/F's name.

I have read many horror stories and I have heard that the use of

leases/mortgages/power of attorney can all help in the event of future

problems.

Is there one reference point on the forum where I can find out more ?

Thanks.

[thaigene2]

Sorry to trouble you, I have looked for pinned items re land

purchase.

I am looking for the basic guidelines on protecting one's interests

when buying land in G/F's name.

I have read many horror stories and I have heard that the use of

leases/mortgages/power of attorney can all help in the event of future

problems.

Is there one reference point on the forum where I can find out more ?

Thanks.

Yes right here. Don't do it.

[raybingham]

Yes right here. Don't do it.

Yep - that was about as constructive as many of your other posts I have seen.

Now, accepting that what you put into Thailand probably stays there, are there any more mature contributors than Thaigenie who have experience of my question.

Thanks again

[thaigene2]

Yep - that was about as constructive as many of your other posts I have seen.

Now, accepting that what you put into Thailand probably stays there, are there any more mature contributors than Thaigenie who have experience of my question.

Thanks again

Well - since you've read in raybingham, what are else are you expecting to learn? Some new, golden nugget? I'm not being flippant to you. I've also considered this - so have many of us married to Thais - thus the many threads. What do you want from us (or if not me - from others?)

[DragonQuest]

You want to buy land? ROFLMAO

From what I heard you can't.

But if you want to risk your life's saving, I wont stop you.

Edited May 4, 2008 by DragonQuest

[raybingham]

Thanks again

Well - since you've read in raybingham, what are else are you expecting to learn? Some new, golden nugget? I'm not being flippant to you. I've also considered this - so have many of us married to Thais - thus the many threads. What do you want from us (or if not me - from others?)

Thaigene2 - at least you read my question, unlike DragonQuest who seemed to want to give an answer to a totally different question.

Mine is not a difficult question:-

I am happy to buy some land for my G/F. The purchase falls comfortably within the parameters of "being prepared to lose what you spend in Thailand". Despite DragonQuest thinking that he knows more about my finances than I do, this purchase would do little more than dent my life's savings.

That said, whatever I choose to spend in Thailand has been relatively hard earned and if I can put some 'protection' in place then I would like to do so. Therefore, my question relates to mechanisms such as (a) leases, ( mortgages and © the use of Power of Attorney.

I am not looking for gift-wrapped response, I would just like someone to point me to somewhere on the forum where I can look for answers to a/b/c .

I have seen first hand the sort of situations that bring about the level of scepticism that is prevalent in the forum. However, I also see some comments from respected members who put some faith in the Thai legal system.

I am prepared (if necessary) to put my faith in that system, but it is no good doing that after the horse has bolted. As in any other country, appropriate documentation at the outset could help in the event of future difficulties.

PLEASE, PLEASE try and come up with something constructive. If everyone tells my that there is sweet FA I can do gain some 'legal right' then there must be hundreds of lawyers accross the country earning money under false pretences (apologies to the lawyers - used as an example only).

[johnnyk]

Buy it in her name if you really want to and are fully confident in her.

But protect yourself with usufruct or something similar.

Use the search function, lots of info on tv.

[Ray1167]

from what you say here , you have already researched and come up with the answers . Accept that the Thai must own the land , and be sure the value of it is not something that will 'ruin you ' should you later walk away. Get your name entered on the back of the chanoot ( land certificate ) and build in a usufruct clause registered with the land office at the time of transfer. This ( in theory ) gives you lifetime rights to use the land and will survive any break up in the relationship. If you later build a house on the land , make sure you get a 'tor tor sam' document from the bank evidencing it was your money (remitted from overseas ) that paid for it . And a contract from the builder , again in your name, not hers. This is my basic understanding of things , hope it helps . Good luck

[nothingleftbutfaith]

The plain truth is that , as a farang, you cannot legally own land in Thailand.

Racist, yes, but the plain truth.

[chiangmaibruce]

Hi Ray. The answer to your (main) question is no, I have not come across a single source of info that details all the various things you can do to try to protect yourself. It seems to be a matter of a bit here and a bit there with some overlap and some contradictions thrown in.

I would suggest a combination of keyword search in google and in thaivisa and see what you get using "thailand, land ownership, lease, usufruct" etc etc. A lot of the thai law firm web sites have some info on this issue.

There seems to be quite a lot of measures that can be taken from the simple to the very elaborate. But you will need to find a lawyer who is familiar with these things and competent to implement, a land office staffer who is familar with these things and will agree to process, a girlfriend who agrees to sign everything, & keep copies of everything like money transfers and receipts .... Then if it all goes to potty you will probably still have to queue up and slug it out in court.

Not a great prospect is it? But I am sure where there is a will there is a way. good luck

[Marvo]

I am looking for the basic guidelines on protecting one's interests

when buying land in G/F's name.

Ray, put the kettle on, make yourself a big mug of coffee and settle down in front of http://www.samuiforsale.com

Search for two items of particular relevence to you: "usufruct" and "superfices". The protection these offer are not 100% by any means, but they are the best a farang is going to get.

Also look Isaan Lawyer's usufruct guide at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0

[thaigene2]

The usufruct is probably what will suit you best.

[Heng]

All IMO...

If there is any doubt in your mind, you shouldn't buy land in your wife's/husband's/gf's/bf's name.

If you don't have a home somewhere else in the world, you shouldn't buy it.

And finally, I think all foreigners should own at least one condo in their own them, that will never be in anyone else's name, not even jointly, before they consider buying up more property in someone else's name. Take care of that universal "shelter" need first.

[thaigene2]

All IMO...

If there is any doubt in your mind, you shouldn't buy land in your wife's/husband's/gf's/bf's name.

If you don't have a home somewhere else in the world, you shouldn't buy it.

And finally, I think all foreigners should own at least one condo in their own them, that will never be in anyone else's name, not even jointly, before they consider buying up more property in someone else's name. Take care of that universal "shelter" need first.

Good advice (you do have some - sometimes - don't you? )

[raybingham]

All IMO...

If there is any doubt in your mind, you shouldn't buy land in your wife's/husband's/gf's/bf's name.

If you don't have a home somewhere else in the world, you shouldn't buy it.

And finally, I think all foreigners should own at least one condo in their own them, that will never be in anyone else's name, not even jointly, before they consider buying up more property in someone else's name. Take care of that universal "shelter" need first.

Good advice (you do have some - sometimes - don't you? )

Thanks to all those who got me towards a usufruct agreement. I am now taking specific advice on this as it appears to pretty much achieve what I am looking for.

Thaigene2 - I wish you had made your third post first - it would have made us both look smarter.

Heng - don't worry I have 4 'shelters' in Europe that I can fall back on.

On a broader note, I really think it would be useful to have one pinned item on this subject. I have seen the inane questions asked by newcomers and many deserve the short-shrift they receive. However, in my case I was not looking for someone wipe my ar*e, I was more than happy to undertake hours of research - I just wanted a starting point.

It would really be helpful if someone has the time to post something that says e.g. Don't buy in Thailand if you don't have to, don't buy in Thailand if you want 100% security of tenure. However, if (after very careful consideration) you choose to buy and (bottom line) are prepared/able to lose that 'investment' then look for the following advice:-

I can do no better than quote the the 2 links from Marvo:-

http://www.samuiforsale.com

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0

In my case I have chosen to buy land in my G/f's name because I want a small lifestyle business to keep my grey matter occupied for part of the time I am in Thailand.

This will probably cost me 4 - 5 million baht over the next few years. If I live for another 25 years that equates to 200k p.a. and if my G/F is still with me at that time I would not begrudge her a satang of that money.

If it does not work out then the advice I have just received may help me to recover some of what I spend.

If not I will sell one of my UK 'shelters' and move on.

Thanks again

[GuestHouse]

Just accept that you are giving your girlfriend 4-5 million Bht and then try to put it out of your mind.

If she wants to leave you and take her land with her then there is no real protection for you.

Thinking about that should keep the little grey cells busy, a little too busy, hence I say put it out of your mind.

--

I personally could think of far better things to do with 4-5 million Bht if I wanted to find something that kept me occupied while keeping MY money safe.

Anyway, let's remember the definition of good advice around here..... 'Advice that agrees with what the person asking for advice WANTS to hear'

[wolfmanjack]

And don't forget the other popular quote that pops up on TV from time to time.

Do not make yourself worth more dead than you are alive.

[GuestHouse]

Why not take a lease on a piece of land.

You get to keep your capital and you don't need to worry about what to do if a) your g/f leaves of your business just doesn't take off.

Of course getting your girlfriend to agree that a lease is the best route might not be easy.

[thaigene2]

And don't forget the other popular quote that pops up on TV from time to time.

Do not make yourself worth more dead than you are alive.

Yes, chilling but true isn't it?

[Heng]

That can be somewhat difficult to do unless you regularly disperse one's wealth among strangers.

[Khun Jean]

The day that an important topic will be pinned will be the death of the forum.

At least that is the impression i get what local admins think like.

Just babbling about the same subject every time seems to be better???

[thaigene2]

Agreed. ADMIN -and MODS can we have a SEPARATE TOPIC about foreigners dead/died/die-laoow? If this is "difficult" for you - think about an "Obituary" or "Last Post" forum as we know in the West? Might take some of the "heat" out of the topics your advertisers and "favourite mods" like to haunt? Just a thought..

Edited May 8, 2008 by thaigene2