Good Bottled Water? Are Any Without Fluoride Available?

[buzzer]

Hi,

Does anyone know what minerals are in the water contained in the commonly available varieties of bottled water? I’m assuming that fluoride is in all the bottled water (except the prohibitively priced imports).

Does anyone have any better information to go on?

I have noticed bottled water falls into 3 categories.

1. Mineral Content Unlisted - Nestle, Singha, Crystal, and others.

2. Mineral Content Listed contains fluoride - Minere, O2, and others.

3. Mineral Content Listed w/o fluoride - Imported and expensive.

My favorite is Crystal, as the taste of the one in glass bottles is usually much better (but i notice a presence of iodine, sometimes). These may be hard to get. It’s distributed by Pepsi. Delivery where I live is hit-and-miss. the Crystal in plastic bottles tastes different. BTW - If you can get it delivered the price of the water (500 ml, I think) is only 2.5 baht - the cheapest price per liter I’ve found aside from the questionable huge white plastic bottles (a friend of mine relied exclusively on these for years - even personally inspecting the local plant in Ko Samui. Then his whole family got sick. He looked at the water and it was slightly green. He complained, and, aware of the problem, they tried to ‘buy him off’.

A restauranteur friend tried to find out what was in Crystal, but they wouldn’t tell him. I tried to get information from Nestle, and just ran into a dead end.

I’m only concerned with commercial, bottled water, not RO or home filtered water. It’s not an alternative for me as a short-time renter.

Thanks - Buzzer

[Sheryl]

I would be surprised if there is fluroide behyong levels occurring in nature.

AFAIK, tap water in Thailand is not fluoridated, or is it?

[GungaDin]

I would be surprised if there is fluroide behyong levels occurring in nature.

AFAIK, tap water in Thailand is not fluoridated, or is it?

Every time I hose down my tiled carport I can smell the flouride (sp), it's quite strong & scarey.

The smell is unmistakable.

[Sheryl]

I would be surprised if there is fluroide behyong levels occurring in nature.

AFAIK, tap water in Thailand is not fluoridated, or is it?

Every time I hose down my tiled carport I can smell the flouride (sp), it's quite strong & scarey.

The smell is unmistakable.

I think you may be confusing chlorine with fluoride

Chlorine has a defiinite odor and taste (how strong depending on the concentration of it) and is used to disinfect the water supply

Fluoride AFAIK has no odor. It is added to drinking water in the west to decrease dental decay.

[GungaDin]

You're right, Sheryl.

I was having flashbacks to the pool I used to train in with Jon Konrads. (50 years ago)

[tim armstrong]

Hi,

Does anyone know what minerals are in the water contained in the commonly available varieties of bottled water? I’m assuming that fluoride is in all the bottled water (except the prohibitively priced imports).

Does anyone have any better information to go on?

I have noticed bottled water falls into 3 categories.

1. Mineral Content Unlisted - Nestle, Singha, Crystal, and others.

2. Mineral Content Listed contains fluoride - Minere, O2, and others.

3. Mineral Content Listed w/o fluoride - Imported and expensive.

My favorite is Crystal, as the taste of the one in glass bottles is usually much better (but i notice a presence of iodine, sometimes). These may be hard to get. It’s distributed by Pepsi. Delivery where I live is hit-and-miss. the Crystal in plastic bottles tastes different. BTW - If you can get it delivered the price of the water (500 ml, I think) is only 2.5 baht - the cheapest price per liter I’ve found aside from the questionable huge white plastic bottles (a friend of mine relied exclusively on these for years - even personally inspecting the local plant in Ko Samui. Then his whole family got sick. He looked at the water and it was slightly green. He complained, and, aware of the problem, they tried to ‘buy him off’.

A restauranteur friend tried to find out what was in Crystal, but they wouldn’t tell him. I tried to get information from Nestle, and just ran into a dead end.

I’m only concerned with commercial, bottled water, not RO or home filtered water. It’s not an alternative for me as a short-time renter.

Thanks - Buzzer

An interesting thread. I drink water from both the brand names and the white plastic bottles, and at home we have the large 10 litre containers delivered. I don't know how you can really tell what's safe or not, or what's in them other than by the taste, and intuition. Our previous home supplier went out of business, as his attention to cleanliness and quality control just weren't up to it. But I'm also sometimes surprised by odd tastes in some of the brands, particularly Singha. I guess some companies use different sterilization processes. I suspect around our area much of the white plastic bottled water is rainwater, collected in the large earthenware urns and not treated at all, but it tastes OK.

As a short term tenant I'd use one that tastes good to you and occassionally give yourself a worm tablet.

[Crushdepth]

My favorite is Crystal, as the taste of the one in glass bottles is usually much better (but i notice a presence of iodine, sometimes). These may be hard to get. It’s distributed by Pepsi. Delivery where I live is hit-and-miss. the Crystal in plastic bottles tastes different. BTW - If you can get it delivered the price of the water (500 ml, I think) is only 2.5 baht - the cheapest price per liter I’ve found aside from the questionable huge white plastic bottles (a friend of mine relied exclusively on these for years - even personally inspecting the local plant in Ko Samui. Then his whole family got sick. He looked at the water and it was slightly green. He complained, and, aware of the problem, they tried to ‘buy him off’.

Once at a former workplace we received boxloads of bottled water full of floaty clumps of dark green algae (I forget the brand but it was a premium label). Later on I worked next to the Office of Food Safety in the Oz government, and one day they were dealing with complaints of bottled water containing fragments of *spiders*, also in a well known brand. Occasionally in Thailand you'll find a muddy taste in the cheaper bottled water. I suspect some companies don't actually filter the water properly, and others may not clean or maintain their filtration equipment properly. Even if they do, if the water is left out in the weather or handled badly it may still fill up with gunk.

I think the big white bottles are actually ok - that's the government one you're referring to right?

[maichai40]

Important topic! Specially since in family water is all we drink (no soft drinks no alcohol) so we use a lot.

I did some research, for quality and price.

What i was looking for are mineral waters, not treated like Crystal, Nestle', Singha etc.

The best i found for price/quality is the mineral water Carrefour brand (green label) at 55 baht/box of six, often on sale at 47 (i literally fill my truck!!). In Tesco they have the same water (same source Samkok) but more expensive.

Anyway for the filterd waters the best i tried is Nestle' and worst Singha (so bitter..).

I also know somebody that got sick with the "big white bottles".

Let me know please if there are other options of mineral water available...not the expensive imported of course! Thanks

[LolaSamui]

Is Crystal water filtered? How did you find this out?

We tried Minere as it said it was natural mineral water on the bottle but both my boyfriend and I found it has a very strange taste which neither of us like. We have now switched back to Crystal - I tried looking at their website but it's all in Thai and I can't understand any of it.

Are there harmful levels of fluoride in it? I'd be interested to know.

[Jay08]

I would be surprised if there is fluroide behyong levels occurring in nature.

AFAIK, tap water in Thailand is not fluoridated, or is it?

Oh yes it is!

I found the attached document after a quick google research. I would encourage everyone to educate themselves on the adverse health effects of tab water flouridisation, there is plenty of material on the web. Most countries "enrich" their drinking water supply under the pretence of maintaining dental health, but the real motives are very different (see second attachment).

Everyone should get clued up on this, and ask some serious questions!

Thai_FDA_Revising_Standard_for_Fluoride_in_Drinking_Water_Bangkok_Thailand_8_19_2009.pdf

FLUORIDATION___Mind_Control_of_the_Masses.pdf

[femi fan]

No-one's mentioned the water from water banks that's about half a baht a litre. Does anyone know how healthy or not this is? We use it for kettle water when making hot drinks.

And we have been buying the six litre bottles of minere for drinking, which until this thread i had never read the contents and now see it does indeed contain fluoride! Oh dear. Can anyone expand on this, in terms of how much there is, and why they would put it in there? How is this minere made?

Is it the same with the big aura bottles?

And what do people think about drinking distilled water as their default drinking water? I've heard mixed views on this.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

using a carbon filter can remove a lot of the issues like flouride, nitrites, nitrates, copper etc. The reverse osmosis does not do much for it in the street machine water. Buying that water or brand water and then running it thru a pour thru carbon filter will not remove it all but will help remove most of it.

Carbon filters aren't as good at removing pharmaceuticals and some industrial toxins however but better than nothing.

Another issue is storing water in plastic which is significant topic of health concern. If you can pick up your water in a plastic jug then carbon filter it and store in a ceramic or glass then better.

[wpcoe]

using a carbon filter can remove a lot of the issues like flouride, nitrites, nitrates, copper etc.

What type of carbon filter do you use to process bottled water for storage in another container? Is it some sort of funnel with a built-in filter?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I brought mine from the states. It's just a pitcher style with a mult stage replacement carbon filter unit. I have seen them for sale in Thailand at various places. If you bring one from your home country just make sure you bring replacement filters also because they have different brands in Thailand.

It might be overkill but fairly simple and cheap.

[wpcoe]

Thanks for the info. Only drawback I see is that I like to drink directly from the water bottle and that contraption looks daunting for that task. ;-)

Seriously, though, do you fill the upper blue part and it trickle filters into the lower clear part? How long does it take?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

you had me going about drinking directly out of the bottle. funny!!

Yeah fill the top chamber and takes like a couple of minutes to filter thru. As the filter ages it slows down slightly.

[james24]

I've been looking for non fluoride for ages!!! Still cant find any!

Does anyone have a name of a brand that is pure of this crap.

[ukrules]

Is there a mainstream brand of bottled distilled water that I can buy pretty much anywhere in Bangkok ?

I've been drinking Minere for the last few years but I generally only get that brand as the bottles are easy to crush by hand when I'm putting them into the rubbish bags to throw away.

If it helps - it all tastes the same to me.

[genghis763]

Jay08, thank you!

I've been looking for this info for ages. Seems to be quite difficult to get a short clear answer otherwise.

Awesome.

[beammeup]

Minere has Flouride in it. I use a reverse osmosis filter all info says it removes floride. Id like to know if the Thai government adds flouride to the tap water??

[james24]

One of the drawbacks to drinking reverse osmosis is that it aso removes many of the natural minerals in the water.

I tend to drink coooly fresh for 3 days and then Tipco for a day.

The funny thing is after drinking Tipco my work rate and concentration seems to get back to normal, because of cooly fresh lacking in some things you tend to notice it.

Edited March 9, 2011 by james24

[Sheryl]

For those living in a house (as opposed to a condo/flat), rain water is a good option. That's what I drink. I just pour it into a simple countertop carbon filter (to remove anything that might have gotten into it in its journey from the roof into the collection jar or naything that might have gotten into the jar). Tastes great.

[pablomontanero]

Hi

I am also concerned about the fluoride levels in bottled water. I found a research about

the fluoride levels in bottled water in Thailand. The article in general is positive about fluoride,

which I am not. But there is a list of many bottled waters in Thailand with fluoride levels.

I attached the article below.

I like the rain water collection idea. Is there an efficient way to do it? What kind

of carbon filter would you use for that solution?

Pablo

flevelinthaiwater.pdf

[Sheryl]

I like the rain water collection idea. Is there an efficient way to do it? What kind

of carbon filter would you use for that solution?

If you want bottled water without fluoride just stick to brands made via reverse osmosis.

As for the rain water, the best way to do it is to connect the roof gutters of the house directly into a collection jar using a closed round (wide bore) pipe. In that instance you need to have a filter in place and a way to detach it so that the year's first run-off (which will have lots of accumulated dirt and debris) doesn't enter. But the more common way, done throughout the countryside and what I do, is just to position a water jar beneath where the roof gutters drain off. Keep a lid on them until it rains (ignoring the season's first few rains for same reason as above) and between rains. It is also a good idea to fashion a net over to keep out mosquitoes and other insects, I make my own from mosquito netting and elastic.

It's a good idea to clean out the jars once a year towards the very end of the dry season or at the very start of the rains. Must admit though I didn't get that done this year...

The water jars are locally made of clay in the countryside, most communities have someone who makes them.

See puix below. The first shows the jar, the second where they are positioned below the roof gutter.

For the countertop filter, any brand is fine. I currently have a Nuevo Pure, got it at I think Lotus or Big C. One tip, I find these brands tend to get discontinued making it hard to buy the replacement filters so when you get one buy plenty of filters. I've had to replace whole unit just because filters were no longer being sold.

The rainwater itself is safe to drink as is, the purpose of the filtration is to remove any dirt and other nasties that may have gotten in there in the collection and storage process.

I pass the water through a sieve when I put it into the top of the filter unit to remove any larger bits of dirt or grit, this makes the filtration faster and extends the life of the filters.

[S0S]

Concerned about the poisonous effects of excess fluoride in water (usually in the form of added sodium fluoride, fluorosilicic acid, or sodium fluorosilicate), I checked up on the brand that so happened to be chosen by me, Nestle's Minere, in that it claimed to be a "Natural Mineral Water."

The label mentions "Mineral Content" and includes Fluoride in the list, but does not give a breakdown of how much.

I emailed the Consumer Relationship Center of Nestle Thai Ltd. with a question regarding the fluoride content, and got the replies that:

"As your question , Nestle's Minere have fluoride content 0.5 mg/l and it is from naturally in the water. It through monitoring from FDA and we confirm that it safety to consume." - AND - "For Nestle'Minere water, we confirm 100% that it is a natural mineral water and there are no artificially added minerals. In Thailand, have a lot of groundwater sources to have a different of mineral content. For nestle , we used the groundwater source from Phosamton at Ayutthaya province which nestle found that it is the best of natural mineral water."

Additionally, "Nestle Waters" website describes their brands which carry on their labels the words "Natural Mineral Water" as follows:

"As defined by EU Directives and Codex Standard is underground, protected water which is stable in mineral composition, microbiologically pure and bottled at source. The characteristic of mineral content must appear on the label as to inform the consumers in their choice. It may have benefic properties for human health approved by Health Authorities and properly labelled. No disinfection treatments are allowed and no additional minerals or vitamins or other ingredients are permitted, only carbon dioxyde can be added or removed."

Still not being 100% convinced about the fluoride level (large corporations have been known to liberally bend the truth through self funded studies and research), further searching on the web led to an interesting study available at the Wiley Online Library. The study, first published in Feb 2011, with the research supported by the Research Fund, Faculty of Dentistry, Chulalongkorn University, Bangkok, and published in the Journal of Investigative and Clinical Dentistry Volume 2, Issue 2, pages 144–147, May 2011, shows the fluoride content of Thirty brands of bottled water (17 bottled plain water and 13 bottled mineral water) in Thailand.

It shows in that study a level of 0.39~0.47mg/l for Minere (which I understand is equivalent to 0.39~0.47ppm) and it corresponds well to Nestle's email clarification of 0.50mg/l, and falls close to the World Health Organization's expected levels of natural fluoride content in water ("for the most part below 0.5mg/l, - from their 1994 study of Fluorides and Oral Health).

Also it appears to fall within Thailand's FDA limit. Quoted from the Global Agricultural Information Network's GAIN Report TH9213 of 19/8/2009: "On 4 August 2009, the Thai Food and Drug Administration notified WTO (G/SPS/N/THA/178) of its change in the food standard for drinking water in sealed containers. The revised notification will limit the content of Fluoride computed as Fluorine to less than 0.7 mg. per liter of drinking water. The revised level of Fluoride in drinking water is being reduced from 1.5 mg. per liter and aims to control the problem of dental and skeletal fluorosis found in both children and adults caused from the excessive intake of fluoride."

Unfortunately, I have assumed that none of the fluoride in the water will be in the form of the non-water soluble organic salt calcium-fluoro-phosphate, which is what our bodies need to strengthen our bones and teeth, but instead would be in forms similar or the same as the other fluorides mentioned above, that are essentially water soluble toxins that "gradually build up and cause harm, damaging kidneys, bones, pineal gland, thyroid, and other tissues."

Though I do not find this brand of water tasty at all, I continue to drink it for lack of finding any better alternative.

Edited July 1, 2011 by S0S

[ronz28]

Reverse osmosis is the best and even gets rid of radiation brought to you by TEPCO/Japan or your local water well. Uranium occurs naturally in some places (maybe where you live?) like Brady, Texas, etc. where the city can't even sell the old water pipes as scrap because they are too hot with radiation ... drinking the water results in Thyroid cancer, etc. Here is a story on Texas government cover-up of the radiation and at the end of the video clip the reverse osmosis system is said to get rid of 98% of radiation in drinking water.

http://www.khou.com/news/State-lowballs-radiation-scores-in-Texas-drinking-water-107125648.html

[edgarfriendly]

Aura brand water.

recommended by raw vegan doctors...

ef

[fullwhenempty]

I'm another who finds the fluoridization of water sinister and take no comfort from any pronouncement from the FDA, EPA or any other regulatory or protective body, who all seem to have been captured by the corporations. Here's a recent 'alarmist' article on the dangers of fluoride... http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-study-fluoride-can-damage-the-brain---avoid-use-in-children-124299299.html

Fluoride seems devilishly difficult to remove from the human body and if the claims of the naysayers are correct, that the fluoride being dumped into our water supply comes from Nuclear waste plants and aluminium smelters then it might be sensible to find some way to remove it. Fluoride is not just in our water but drugs, toothpaste and other products to the extent that the total concentration we imbibe can exceed guidelines. More so for children. I tossed my 'Colgate' in the bin years ago.

Pubmed has some published studies which claim to be able to remove fluoride using Tamarind and or Moringa Oleifera. Moringa has some fascinating uses including water purification and is packed with nutrients.

Using Tamarind Seed to purify water... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17176816

Using Tamarind pulp to remove fluoride from the body... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20980037

[coldmike]

Does anyone have good information about the coin operated vending machines that provide UV treated reverse osmosis water at about one baht per large bottle? I recently drank it often with no negative side affects as it was easy and cheap , but I'm a little concerned if there are any reasons to not use it on a long term basis. Thanks.

[heliox]

Thanks for taking the time to answer the op original question and providing references as well.I have also been thinking what bottled water would be best for my family and you seemed to help answer that question

Cheers :jap:

Concerned about the poisonous effects of excess fluoride in water (usually in the form of added sodium fluoride, fluorosilicic acid, or sodium fluorosilicate), I checked up on the brand that so happened to be chosen by me, Nestle's Minere, in that it claimed to be a "Natural Mineral Water."

The label mentions "Mineral Content" and includes Fluoride in the list, but does not give a breakdown of how much.

I emailed the Consumer Relationship Center of Nestle Thai Ltd. with a question regarding the fluoride content, and got the replies that:

"As your question , Nestle's Minere have fluoride content 0.5 mg/l and it is from naturally in the water. It through monitoring from FDA and we confirm that it safety to consume." - AND - "For Nestle'Minere water, we confirm 100% that it is a natural mineral water and there are no artificially added minerals. In Thailand, have a lot of groundwater sources to have a different of mineral content. For nestle , we used the groundwater source from Phosamton at Ayutthaya province which nestle found that it is the best of natural mineral water."

Additionally, "Nestle Waters" website describes their brands which carry on their labels the words "Natural Mineral Water" as follows:

"As defined by EU Directives and Codex Standard is underground, protected water which is stable in mineral composition, microbiologically pure and bottled at source. The characteristic of mineral content must appear on the label as to inform the consumers in their choice. It may have benefic properties for human health approved by Health Authorities and properly labelled. No disinfection treatments are allowed and no additional minerals or vitamins or other ingredients are permitted, only carbon dioxyde can be added or removed."

Still not being 100% convinced about the fluoride level (large corporations have been known to liberally bend the truth through self funded studies and research), further searching on the web led to an interesting study available at the Wiley Online Library. The study, first published in Feb 2011, with the research supported by the Research Fund, Faculty of Dentistry, Chulalongkorn University, Bangkok, and published in the Journal of Investigative and Clinical Dentistry Volume 2, Issue 2, pages 144–147, May 2011, shows the fluoride content of Thirty brands of bottled water (17 bottled plain water and 13 bottled mineral water) in Thailand.

It shows in that study a level of 0.39~0.47mg/l for Minere (which I understand is equivalent to 0.39~0.47ppm) and it corresponds well to Nestle's email clarification of 0.50mg/l, and falls close to the World Health Organization's expected levels of natural fluoride content in water ("for the most part below 0.5mg/l, - from their 1994 study of Fluorides and Oral Health).

Also it appears to fall within Thailand's FDA limit. Quoted from the Global Agricultural Information Network's GAIN Report TH9213 of 19/8/2009: "On 4 August 2009, the Thai Food and Drug Administration notified WTO (G/SPS/N/THA/178) of its change in the food standard for drinking water in sealed containers. The revised notification will limit the content of Fluoride computed as Fluorine to less than 0.7 mg. per liter of drinking water. The revised level of Fluoride in drinking water is being reduced from 1.5 mg. per liter and aims to control the problem of dental and skeletal fluorosis found in both children and adults caused from the excessive intake of fluoride."

Unfortunately, I have assumed that none of the fluoride in the water will be in the form of the non-water soluble organic salt calcium-fluoro-phosphate, which is what our bodies need to strengthen our bones and teeth, but instead would be in forms similar or the same as the other fluorides mentioned above, that are essentially water soluble toxins that "gradually build up and cause harm, damaging kidneys, bones, pineal gland, thyroid, and other tissues."

Though I do not find this brand of water tasty at all, I continue to drink it for lack of finding any better alternative.