Us Military In Pataya

[wilko]

U.S.A. still and always #1

a brilliantly thought out and highly persuasive argument.....

....................1 at what BTW?

At allowing the media to criticize every aspect of its functions, including the president.

BTW I'm not american.

cheers

onzestan

yes indeed but from other countries (perspectives) it's not well received........

HUBRIS indeed! one word to sum up a nation!

[Kerryd]

I must say that terms like "these people were most likely just going to be slaughtered" and including other nations as "just as bad" is really not substantiated and the language of apologism.

Wasn't trying to apologise for anything. And other nations were just as bad (or worse), and it has been substantiated (in history). You don't really believe that the US and Britain were the only nations invloved in slavery do you ? Check this out:

"The African slave trade was actually started as early as 869 when Muslim traders sold items to the Africans and the African kings actually traded with their own people! But what most people think about the African slave trade and the southern states in the United States comes much later.

The Dutch were the first people to transport slaves to North America, but black slaves have already been sold around the world. Contrary to people's belief, the Dutch did not really have to use force to get the slaves, instead all they had to do was contact the king of the tribe and just as the Muslim traders had done, just pay the king and he would give you his people. These are numbers that I have found that show an estimate on how many slaves were sold to these major countries.

Portugal/Brazil: 4,650,000

Spain: 1,600,000

France: 1,250,000

Holland: 500,000

Britain: 2,600,000

U.S.A.: 300,000

Denmark: 50,000

Others: 50,000 (From Wiki Answers)

Another stat gleaned from wikipedia site: Slavery in the Muslim world

Male slaves were employed as servants, soldiers, or laborers, while female slaves were traded to Middle Eastern countries and kingdoms by Arab, Indian, or Oriental traders, some as domestic servants, others as sex slaves. Some historians estimate that between 11 and 17 million slaves crossed the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara Desert from 650 to 1900 AD.

I was trying to point out that it seems these days, everyone tries to blame the US (and Britain to a lessor degree) for all the ills and woes of slavery, as though none of it would have ever happened had it not been for those two countries.

Pure hypocrisy on behalf of some. In fact, I get the sense that one of the prime reasons for trying to lay all the blame on those two countries has more to do with their ability to (possibly) pay reparations, than actual culpability.

After all, who is more to blame, the people that were making slaves out of their people and captives long before ever setting eyes on a European, or the people that came around (long after) and bought them ?

Either way it's not right, but one has to remember, we are judging events that took place hundreds, even thousands of years ago, using our current moral guidelines. No doubt that hundreds and thousands of years into the future, those societies will also blame us for the way we currently treat our fellow man.

[onzestan]

The Dutch were the first people to transport slaves to North America, but black slaves have already been sold around the world. Contrary to people's belief, the Dutch did not really have to use force to get the slaves, instead all they had to do was contact the king of the tribe and just as the Muslim traders had done, just pay the king and he would give you his people.

Correct, the Dutch already had a slave trade to Europe with their Oost Indische Company,(ex Indonesia and Sri Lanka) and then followed up to the Americas with the West Indische Company. Hence the Dutch contingent in Nieuw Amsterdam (now New York)

Shortly thereafter the British joined the act.

onzestan

[Jingthing]

No doubt that hundreds and thousands of years into the future, those societies will also blame us for the way we currently treat our fellow man.

Just pointing out that many mainstream scientists think there won't be any mankind left at all in even 100 years.

Cheers! Live for today.

[Ulysses G.]

yes indeed but from other countries (perspectives) it's not well received........

Not at this moment in time.

[wilko]

This is a case of teaching your grandmother to suck eggs - I certainly don't need a history lesson on slavery,.... -but I don't think you got my point...I'm referring to the comments earlier about the history of slavery in relation to the history of the US.....

You will also notice that I carefully used the expression “slave trade” in reference to the golden triangle, and it’s results.

I’m aware of more than just Wiki stats on this, and unfortunately stats and facts alone do not make history...history is the analysis of th EVIDENCE of the past...now copious books have been written on the Atlantic slave trade...which has a relatively short history and its sequent effects on the history of the “western” world which quite frankly I have neither the time or inclination to start at square one here.

..... I don't intend to discuss or go into a full discourse on slavery but believe me I could.

Before we even started you’d have to have a lesson on “Historiography” –

Then, basically, the subject of the history of slavery is for research PHDs – lots of ‘em – and not for a posting on the Pattaya web site.

Suffice it to say that I was referring to post slavery history in USA and treatment of the resulting Afro population there....to say that others were guilty too can in no way diminish the blame that should be / is placed on the shoulders of the USA. (&UK).

(PS - there’s a history behind the expression “square one” too!).

Edited May 18, 2008 by wilko

[wilko]

yes indeed but from other countries (perspectives) it's not well received........

Not at this moment in time.

as someone with family in USA and all over the world...I cannot think of a time where there has not been a large groundswell of anti- American feeling in any country outside the states....

the interpretations put on this are usually reflected in the gross naivety of there comments on other nations and ultimately in their foreign policies. - Why d'you think they have to send in shore police to check out the Pattaya bars?

[sbk]

Not Thailand related, not even Pattaya related any more.

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