General Questions From Newcomer...

[oroboros]

Hi all, been browsing this forum for a bit and have found it to be a great community with a lot of really helpful info. Anyway, my situation is that in the next few months I plan on traveling to Thailand from USA; not sure how long I'll stay at least a couple months if not FOREVER .

Every month I earn between $300-$500 from some website income, bank interest, small investments, ect... I have around $1500 in the bank and a couple credit cards for about another $2000 if absolutely needed. After researching online, I've decided that I'd really like to live in or around the Chiang Mai area taking occasional trips for a weekend or whatever to other places around the country.

Most my time is spend either exploring to take photos or writing, and I'm not really interested in the whole party and girls thing so I figure that should save me some cash. Living in a small studio apartment or house is fine, I don't really watch TV but internet at home would be nice. As far as food goes, a diet of mainly fruits, vegetables, rice, with some fish or chicken here and there is great. Not big on going out to expensive restaurants that often if ever. And travel by train, bike, foot, whatever is fine with me.

So I'm basically wondering if it's a reasonable plan to be able to live there for around $400 average a month-hopefully not really using my savings or credit except for emergency or splurge here and there. As I said around Chiang Mai seems like the place I want to be based in at least for awhile. Also would you suggest looking for a semi-permanent place to rent or just staying in cheap hotels? Any help will be warmly received.

Thx

Edited May 17, 2008 by oroboros

[Blinky Bill]

NO

What savings? US$1,500 is not savings, it is pocket money. Credit cards have to be repayed. You have no hope mate.

Edited May 17, 2008 by Blinky Bill

[ProThaiExpat]

You describe what many would refer to the "starving artist" or "gone native" type of lifestyle which is certainly doable on $400 a month. At the worst exchange rate so far, that is 12K Baht, above what some Thais live on. I suspect some falang also live on this or less. Backpackers particularly.

Good luck on your adventure.

Make sure you buy a round trip ticket.

[Rasseru]

Very tight budget, and so much less than mine that I cannot comment meaningfully on its adequacy, but it sounds like you could at least scrape by, so why not just come to Chiangmai, check it out for a couple of months and find out for yourself?

[Blinky Bill]

Very tight budget, and so much less than mine that I cannot comment meaningfully on its adequacy, but it sounds like you could at least scrape by, so why not just come to Chiangmai, check it out for a couple of months and find out for yourself?

What can you comment on meaningfully, Razza?

[zorro1]

Geez if you said 2 month holiday INC your savings I would have said yes its doable . Buy a calculator and then add in rent, food, health insurance, bus fares , Internet etc. Put some work into this rather than just hoping someone says "yep gee that's plenty come over, have the time of your life " Come back here with your list and ask again if you really need to

EDIT

Go to search, there are a ton of posts on cost of living here

Edited May 17, 2008 by zorro1

[Rasseru]

Very tight budget, and so much less than mine that I cannot comment meaningfully on its adequacy, but it sounds like you could at least scrape by, so why not just come to Chiangmai, check it out for a couple of months and find out for yourself?

What can you comment on meaningfully, Razza?

As I would have thought you knew very well, I can comment meaningfully on the use of written English. Knowing as I do how much the proper use of the language means to you, I have always supposed that you appreciate the corrections of yours that I occasionally offer.

[chiangmaiexpat]

Hmm... Thailand is comparatively cheap, but not that cheap. I suppose 20-30 years ago one could have lived on that budget.

Cheers, CMX

[oroboros]

Geez if you said 2 month holiday INC your savings I would have said yes its doable . Buy a calculator and then add in rent, food, health insurance, bus fares , Internet etc. Put some work into this rather than just hoping someone says "yep gee that's plenty come over, have the time of your life " Come back here with your list and ask again if you really need to

EDIT

Go to search, there are a ton of posts on cost of living here

I'm not looking for someone to just blindly say come on over. And I did search and the answers seemed to be differing for each question, so I figured I'd put out my situation and try to get some feedback if it's reasonable or not from people who are more qualified and experienced than me. That's all. That's what forums are for, right? Exchange of information?

But it seems everyone needs to only post topics that YOU deem fit or they're just going to receive this kind of smart-ass back handed responses from the (INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUSINESS) online police. I guess I'm now being just as big of douchebag as you, but you get what you give. So, thanks for the helpful responses, and zorro try to have some fun with your life even though we both know you don't.

SPOILER:

You're a miserable person who sits around trolling the internet for fun. 1/10

Thx for helping me make up my mind though.

lulz

Edited May 17, 2008 by oroboros

[zorro1]

Okay will do it for you and will take around 3 seconds. Lets take the worst case scenario $300/ month = $9.89 per day

get the PICTURE

Some times it takes a whack around the head to wake some up hence my previous post. Good luck with your "holiday"

Please come back and ask more questions, its how you learn

[oroboros]

Okay will do it for you and will take around 3 seconds. Lets take the worst case scenario $300/ month = $9.89 per day

get the PICTURE

Some times it takes a whack around the head to wake some up hence my previous post. Good luck with your "holiday"

Please come back and ask more questions, its how you learn

Fair enough, I realize how little it is, but I've read from certain places where Thailand is the land of milk and honey dirt cheap!!!! or whatever. I came to a forum to try and find out before I get too far in planning this trip. Next time a simple "YOU: no, that's probably not going to work out well for you, try to have some more cash saved or income - ME: OK, done deal! THX" like chiangmaiexpat, would do great and be way more helpful.

One reason I and others post these threads is because when we do a search half the answers are of the unhelpful negative non-answers kind like your first response, so it doesn't answer our questions, confusion ensues, so we make a post then you or someone tries to beat us down and make us feel stupid for asking, then more confusion, and the cycle repeats over and over and over.

If you want these kinds of newbie threads, that the elder forumers dread for some reason, to stop than just give a straight-up quality response or don't say anything. In a way it's kind of your fault for us noobs to come in here again and again with the same dumb things, see.

Edited May 17, 2008 by oroboros

[tigerbeer]

thailand is not the land of milk and cheap honey... thailand only welcomes rich tourists and expatriates. trust us, we know!

people have already told you to come here for a couple of months and check it out yourself. so i don't see a point of you getting into this newbie and oldie crap and thread bashing or whatever you call it.

have a fun holiday when you come here. if you come here.

[ThaiPauly]

I believe there is a website called www.retireon$550dollars.com

maybe that would give you some idea, and its not too far above your budget

If I have the website address wrong then please google retiring in Thailand (although I know that you do not wanna retire-there may be some useful tips..I really don't know)

Edited due to a spelling mistake that I am sure BB would have picked up on LOL

Edited May 17, 2008 by ThaiPauly

[gennisis]

Hi all, been browsing this forum for a bit and have found it to be a great community with a lot of really helpful info. Anyway, my situation is that in the next few months I plan on traveling to Thailand from USA; not sure how long I'll stay at least a couple months if not FOREVER .

Every month I earn between $300-$500 from some website income, bank interest, small investments, ect... I have around $1500 in the bank and a couple credit cards for about another $2000 if absolutely needed. After researching online, I've decided that I'd really like to live in or around the Chiang Mai area taking occasional trips for a weekend or whatever to other places around the country.

Most my time is spend either exploring to take photos or writing, and I'm not really interested in the whole party and girls thing so I figure that should save me some cash. Living in a small studio apartment or house is fine, I don't really watch TV but internet at home would be nice. As far as food goes, a diet of mainly fruits, vegetables, rice, with some fish or chicken here and there is great. Not big on going out to expensive restaurants that often if ever. And travel by train, bike, foot, whatever is fine with me.

So I'm basically wondering if it's a reasonable plan to be able to live there for around $400 average a month-hopefully not really using my savings or credit except for emergency or splurge here and there. As I said around Chiang Mai seems like the place I want to be based in at least for awhile. Also would you suggest looking for a semi-permanent place to rent or just staying in cheap hotels? Any help will be warmly received.

Thx

I think some of the replies here have been a bit unfriendly,but there again they have pointed out to you that on your anticipated income of $400 you would be on the 'breadline'.You would be having a very restricted lifestyle..(for a foreigner). 16,000 baht each month...yes its quite a bit more than many Thais can earn,but they at least have families,live together,share expenses ect...you would be alone and bearing every expense yourself. It may be that the "excitement 'of a new country,its sights and lifestyles would be ok over a short period,but longterm ???

I guess your best way of finding out is to come and stay as a visitor for a while...thats going to cut into your savings for the airfare for a start though....but you would at least be able to find out how YOUR LIFESTYLE would get on here.

My opinion is that you would be restricted in what you would like to do and what you could afford to do and that would probably be dissapointing for you....but its your life,you are I guess a young man and so it would be part of lifes experience,but not nessesarily an enjoyable one.........best of luck!

[gpdjohn]

I would suggest you have more moola per month before you consider living here.

Like they said, it IS not the land of CHEAP milk and honey.

You can go through the 1500 very quickly as well.

I would also think that the Thai Govt wouldn't allow you to stay long on that income either.

Come and have a nice vacation, check it out and enjoy yourself.

Good luck.

[sweetchariot]

OK, take 4 months income, add to that your savings, also drain your credit cards - how much are we up to $5,000? That's what most people bring for a 2 week holiday (inc airfare).

It may feel like everyone is having a go at you, but we're not, what you are proposing is just not realistic.

[zorro1]

""I believe there is a website called www.retireon$550dollars.com

maybe that would give you some idea, and its not too far above your budget

If I have the website address wrong then please google retiring in Thailand (although I know that you do not wanna retire-there may be some useful tips..I really don't know)

Edited due to a spelling mistake that I am sure BB would have picked up on LOL ""

Not quite right but I found the link and the following info is on the very first page with some pics. I can assume the chics are thrown in for free at $550

http://www.retire-on-550-month.com/index.php

Designed specially for the single gentleman who did not come all this way to Live Alone.

Six lovely ladies and four loveable retiree's together for an afternoon which includes lunch, a romantic river cruise, private party and dinner. You get a chance to meet all six ladies. All 6 ladies want to meet a nice farang for a long term relationship.

Edited May 17, 2008 by zorro1

[Blinky Bill]

[wjmark]

Hey Oroboros,

Don't listen to the crap that some people post - they don't know and don't care. Rasseru has it right (and was polite about it) - a lot of people on Thai Visa have plenty of money, and "cannot relate" to someone who has a lower income. Cannot relate, and don't want to.

In fact a lot of people here think low income people shouldn't even be here - a lot of stuck-up sticky-beaks with just a little too much money retire here! So if someone says NO WAY, $1500 is just pocket money, then you know that they have never had to live on the cheap, and certainly look down on people who try. AND THEIR ANSWER IS WRONG! If you know how to live 'local' (without imported beer, pizza, steaks, a 5 million baht house, and different bar-girls every night), then it can be done.

Some Westerners here actually like experiencing Thai society, and do not come here just because it is a cheap place to spend their medium retirement incomes on the standard Farang excesses.

Live in a small room, eat fantastic Thai food. Drive a piece of shit scooter. Get drunk occasionally on a few cheap beer. A far more real (and rewarding - in my view) type of experience.

Sure you can spend $1500 a month - easy. 45,000 bt per month? 1500bt/day? Beers, pizza, steaks, fancy restaurants, gifts for girls, money for a second "hideaway" apartment for the second girlfrind. Computers and high speed internet. A car and a decent motorcycle... and a community of like-minded Thai-bashers

BUT

12,000 per month? 400/day?

Cheap room with fan = 2,000bt / month (plus electric~300) (EASY TO FIND!) or

Cheap air con room w/ TV and fridge = 4500 (plus electric~800)

So, accommodation = 2500-5000bt/mo

All you can eat lunch vegetarian buffet - Khun Churn = 80bt, including beverage.

Thai buffets with meat run 120 bt and up

Kao Man Gai (Chicken and rice steamed together) = 20-40 baht

An assortment of dishes off the street (great eating) 20-30baht each - full meal 60 baht easily.

Beer = 40-50 baht for large bottle (maybe less - I forget). Bottle of Thai rum/whiskey etc = 180baht

Water? 20-30baht /20liter bottle - good for a week = 3 baht /day

I haven't checked out the markets in a while (I have been away), but many fruit and vegies for less than 30-50br/kilo.

One can buy a small used scooters for 5,000 - 7,000 (not in your monthly budget), but will run less than 1baht per kilometer.

A second hand bike (or cheap new one) will be 2,000 - daily expense? NOTHING

So assume 3,000 rent, an that leaves 9,000 baht per month, or 300 day

Buffet vegie lunch = 80: Supper - chicken curry, rice, fried vegies w/pork = 50: Breakfast - rice, one dish, and a fried egg = 20-30.

Snacks = 25 bt/day.A bag of salted dried fish with peanuts - 5 baht. Lots of chips and sweets available for 5-10 baht.

Petrol for scooter = 20bt (that is lots of riding 20-30 km).

One beer 40 baht.

Phone card for mobile = 1-2 baht per minute. And no money means not so many girlfriends! Therefore your phone bill will be low! (A little bit true and a little bit a joke!).

So what do we have - under 250bt/day with the rent already paid. Not a lot left, but definitely a decent time in Chiang Mai. Add $200, and the horizons open up dramatically!

$400/month? If you need your beer, ciggies, regular sojourn to one of the British pubs, and have to eat western food all the time, then, NO WAY! If you feel the need to shower every Thai prostitute you meet with gifts, then NO WAY! If you need a 1000meter apartment, $200 shoes, and hate the idea of eating Thai street food, then NO WAY!

If you are a experienced traveler who does not mind a modest existence, then it should be relatively easy. And more fun than living in a $2,000 / month bubble.

Good morning, and good luck

wj

[chiangmaiexpat]

"I believe there is a website called www.retireon$550dollars.com

Hilarious, thanks for sharing!

It starts with: "Chiang Mai is home to about 180,000 people..."

When? In 1970? This figure may be true for Amphur Muang alone.

It then goes on with: "The people are fantastic. They work hard, get along and ..."

No doubt, the author is an expert.

Cheers, CMX

[Priceless]

"I believe there is a website called www.retireon$550dollars.com

Hilarious, thanks for sharing!

It starts with: "Chiang Mai is home to about 180,000 people..."

When? In 1970? This figure may be true for Amphur Muang alone.

It then goes on with: "The people are fantastic. They work hard, get along and ..."

No doubt, the author is an expert.

Cheers, CMX

According to Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Mai_Metropolitan_Area ) Amphur Muang alone has a population of 242,739 people, so the quoted website is "slightly" off...

As to the OP's question, I think Blinky gave an honest, straightforward and CORRECT answer. Even though Blinky and I like a different standard of living, I think we know enough to say that living on $400 per month is not doable, except in the very short run. If you look at wjmark's post and throw in a few things like a dentist's bill, being prepared for a possible medical emergency (whether through insurance or rich parents), visa runs and so on you will find that it does NOT work.

The best advice has already been given: Come here as a tourist for a few months, test the waters and then go home to make some REAL money.

BTW I think that Blinky's beautiful picture sums it all up rather well!

/ Priceless

[iainiain101]

Out of interest, how can you survive in the US on an income of $300 to $500 a month?

Iain

[bendix]

What a load of tosh.

All these threads from people glorying in living on $10 a day because that's the Thai way, conveniently ignore one fact. All those Thai's existing on 12000 a month would give their eye teeth to get out of Thailand and go somewhere for a chance to earn real money.

What MUST they think of these heroes who give up the luxury of the west to come and live here like them.

12000 baht a month, my arse. The fact wjmark had to write such a long reply suggests that it's bloody tough scrimping around trying to save 20 baht there and 30 bath there.

That's not living. It's barely an existence.

Hey Oroboros,

Don't listen to the crap that some people post - they don't know and don't care. Rasseru has it right (and was polite about it) - a lot of people on Thai Visa have plenty of money, and "cannot relate" to someone who has a lower income. Cannot relate, and don't want to.

In fact a lot of people here think low income people shouldn't even be here - a lot of stuck-up sticky-beaks with just a little too much money retire here! So if someone says NO WAY, $1500 is just pocket money, then you know that they have never had to live on the cheap, and certainly look down on people who try. AND THEIR ANSWER IS WRONG! If you know how to live 'local' (without imported beer, pizza, steaks, a 5 million baht house, and different bar-girls every night), then it can be done.

Some Westerners here actually like experiencing Thai society, and do not come here just because it is a cheap place to spend their medium retirement incomes on the standard Farang excesses.

Live in a small room, eat fantastic Thai food. Drive a piece of shit scooter. Get drunk occasionally on a few cheap beer. A far more real (and rewarding - in my view) type of experience.

Sure you can spend $1500 a month - easy. 45,000 bt per month? 1500bt/day? Beers, pizza, steaks, fancy restaurants, gifts for girls, money for a second "hideaway" apartment for the second girlfrind. Computers and high speed internet. A car and a decent motorcycle... and a community of like-minded Thai-bashers

BUT

12,000 per month? 400/day?

Cheap room with fan = 2,000bt / month (plus electric~300) (EASY TO FIND!) or

Cheap air con room w/ TV and fridge = 4500 (plus electric~800)

So, accommodation = 2500-5000bt/mo

All you can eat lunch vegetarian buffet - Khun Churn = 80bt, including beverage.

Thai buffets with meat run 120 bt and up

Kao Man Gai (Chicken and rice steamed together) = 20-40 baht

An assortment of dishes off the street (great eating) 20-30baht each - full meal 60 baht easily.

Beer = 40-50 baht for large bottle (maybe less - I forget). Bottle of Thai rum/whiskey etc = 180baht

Water? 20-30baht /20liter bottle - good for a week = 3 baht /day

I haven't checked out the markets in a while (I have been away), but many fruit and vegies for less than 30-50br/kilo.

One can buy a small used scooters for 5,000 - 7,000 (not in your monthly budget), but will run less than 1baht per kilometer.

A second hand bike (or cheap new one) will be 2,000 - daily expense? NOTHING

So assume 3,000 rent, an that leaves 9,000 baht per month, or 300 day

Buffet vegie lunch = 80: Supper - chicken curry, rice, fried vegies w/pork = 50: Breakfast - rice, one dish, and a fried egg = 20-30.

Snacks = 25 bt/day.A bag of salted dried fish with peanuts - 5 baht. Lots of chips and sweets available for 5-10 baht.

Petrol for scooter = 20bt (that is lots of riding 20-30 km).

One beer 40 baht.

Phone card for mobile = 1-2 baht per minute. And no money means not so many girlfriends! Therefore your phone bill will be low! (A little bit true and a little bit a joke!).

So what do we have - under 250bt/day with the rent already paid. Not a lot left, but definitely a decent time in Chiang Mai. Add $200, and the horizons open up dramatically!

$400/month? If you need your beer, ciggies, regular sojourn to one of the British pubs, and have to eat western food all the time, then, NO WAY! If you feel the need to shower every Thai prostitute you meet with gifts, then NO WAY! If you need a 1000meter apartment, $200 shoes, and hate the idea of eating Thai street food, then NO WAY!

If you are a experienced traveler who does not mind a modest existence, then it should be relatively easy. And more fun than living in a $2,000 / month bubble.

Good morning, and good luck

wj

[bendix]

Given the OP's desire to walk around taking pictures and writing, I suspect Mummy and Daddy play a role somewhere . .

Out of interest, how can you survive in the US on an income of $300 to $500 a month?

Iain

[wjmark]

What a load of tosh.

All these threads from people glorying in living on $10 a day because that's the Thai way, conveniently ignore one fact. All those Thai's existing on 12000 a month would give their eye teeth to get out of Thailand and go somewhere for a chance to earn real money.

What MUST they think of these heroes who give up the luxury of the west to come and live here like them.

12000 baht a month, my arse. The fact wjmark had to write such a long reply suggests that it's bloody tough scrimping around trying to save 20 baht there and 30 bath there.

That's not living. It's barely an existence.

I never said it would be so easy, and I am not glorifying poverty - but it can be done, and it can be done easily. It could also be rewarding. Extravagance does not equal happy. Cut out the foreign beer, the western food, and the bar girls, and then it would be quite easy.

Now if you need all the western comforts and the "I love you darling's", then no, cannot do it.

If other things are important, and money is a concern, it would not be that hard.

I did not write such a long reply because it is hard to do. I wrote a long reply to show that it is easy to do (should you want to).

There is plenty of fine food everywhere in Thailand for 20-40 baht. There are many 2-3,000 baht apartments. There you go - food and accommodation without trying for 6-8,000 month.

And following your point, I guess that most Thai people aren't living - just barely existing?

And for all of you with the nasty personal cracks about the OP - shame on you.

[Blinky Bill]

I never said it would be so easy, and I am not glorifying poverty - but it can be done, and it can be done easily. It could also be rewarding. Extravagance does not equal happy. Cut out the foreign beer, the western food, and the bar girls, and then it would be quite easy.

You seem to be contradicting yourself somewhat, wjmark.

And you should be careful when you state that those of us who prefer to live a richer lifestyle have never experienced grass roots living and do not know anything of Thai culture and Thai lifestyle. Many of us have been in Thailand a long time and have forgotten more about the culture and lifestyle than you'll probably ever know.

What is your fixation with bar girls? You seem to assume that anyone living a reasonable lifestyle employs these ladies to keep themselves company. Get real.

[wjmark]

I never said it would be so easy, and I am not glorifying poverty - but it can be done, and it can be done easily. It could also be rewarding. Extravagance does not equal happy. Cut out the foreign beer, the western food, and the bar girls, and then it would be quite easy.

You seem to be contradicting yourself somewhat, wjmark.

And you should be careful when you state that those of us who prefer to live a richer lifestyle have never experienced grass roots living and do not know anything of Thai culture and Thai lifestyle. Many of us have been in Thailand a long time and have forgotten more about the culture and lifestyle than you'll probably ever know.

What is your fixation with bar girls? You seem to assume that anyone living a reasonable lifestyle employs these ladies to keep themselves company. Get real.

Contradicting myself? Perhaps a little. I wouldn't want to live on 12,000/month. And "easy" has many meanings (perhaps I should have said "can be done 'quite' easily'.)

"Easy, not so easy, not easy". Sure. Financially, it is "easy" to do. Emotionally, perhaps "not so easy". If people need the high life just to feel alive, then "not easy".

Some people would find it very easy and rewarding, and some couldn't pull it off no matter what. Easy and not easy.

And about bar girls - not my fixation - I hang around U.N Irish, and Tuskers - two major ex-pat hangouts, and I must say most of the conversations seem to be about the houses people are building, and how much their current girlfriend is costing them.

I hope I am not making too blanket a statement, for I do know plenty of people here who do not spend all their time whoring around. But this thread has been full of negative 'blanket statements", so perhaps I got a little carried away with the moment!

But the amount of ex-pats here who will not even touch Thai food is incredible.

And as for me casting aspersions about people not having a poorer background, I apologize - it is true that poorer people who find money can become just as judgmental and intolerant as those who have always had money.

US$1,500 is not savings, it is pocket money... [snip] You have no hope mate

Come from a rich or poor background - whatever, but "1500 is just pocket money?" "No hope?". C'mon

Do you know more about Thailand than me - probably. And I didn't say that people didn't know Thai culture. I said that many people here don't like it. There is a difference.

I don't know how you can proclaim such blanket statements yourself. Is it really true that the OP has NO HOPE of living here for a few hundred dollars a month? As you know Thailand so well, then you know that 8,000 baht can cover a decent small room, and lots of good food...

No hope? Get real!

[Ulysses G.]

What is your fixation with bar girls? You seem to assume that anyone living a reasonable lifestyle employs these ladies to keep themselves company. Get real.

Blinky Bill is something like 6 feet 6 with a body like Arnold in his prime and as handsome as Mel Gibson. He is one of those lucky fellows that get as much as they want for free and have since they were 11 years old. When he wakes up in the morning, there are Thai girls standing in a neat line in his driveway.

He is a little out of touch with what the rest of us have to do to get a little female company.

[zorro1]

Whats the poor bugger going to do when all his mates go down the Irish pub for a Sunday arvo session. Stay in his nice little room? bullshit! he will blow his whole budget in a one week. And what about the cute little backpacker that he WIll meet? whats he gonna do when she says 'Hey lets go clubbing tonight" is he going to stay in his "nice little 2500bht room" no friigin way! I suppose he could always eat insects and catch frogs a few times to cut back on expenses. That's what some Thais do right?

[Rasseru]

Blinky Bill . . . is one of those lucky fellows that get as much as they want for free and have since they were 11 years old.

That's not quite true. It is true that he has had many wives, perhaps as many as he wanted -- or, who knows, quite possibly even more -- but I don't imagine they were free and I don't think he got the first one when he was eleven.

When he wakes up in the morning, there are Thai girls standing in a neat line in his 'driveway'.

Only when he passes out in front of an ATM.

Edited May 17, 2008 by Rasseru