Weekly Monk Days

[MISTERBONK]

I wonder do any other foreigners have similar feelings of disgust.

Every week, my wife and all the villagers buy up half the local market supply of flowers and fruit, return home, and arrange the purchases elaborately on plates to present to their concrete dolls in their concrete dolls houses. The fruit remains in the hot sun all day, eaten by flies and ants and is then disposed of.

What a tragic waste of money and our fast depleting resources.

I feel even more sickened currently when I see this having regard to the millions of displaced people in neighbouring Burma and China, many of whom have or will die through lack of food and water. I realise we can do little about this, especially in Burma, where the junta refuse all offers of assistance.

If they must make weekly offerings, then surely it would be preferable, and just as pleasing to the spirits/gods if they were to give the food to the impoverished old folk in the villages.

I fully appreciate that this is their custom, and would not speak out to them about my thoughts. But surely influential people in the Buddhist hierarchy should consider this absolute waste of food and money and suggest it's diversion elsewhere.

[garro]

In my opinion it is important that people at least try and show some respect for the culture in a country where they are a guest, and you seem to be aware of this. Most people have cultural norms which others might not understand. For example the large amount of money that many westerners are willing to pee down the toilet in bars, or the amount spent on Christmas presents that are never opened, may seem a big waste to those from other cultures.

I think that spirit houses perform important psychological, social, and family cohesion functions.

Edited May 19, 2008 by garro

[Bagwain]

The spirit houses are not anything to do with Budhist religeon. It is more to do with Thailands original religeon of worshiping the anscestors.

I do agree with the waste issue though. In Naklua there is a drunken young man that frequently eats the food and drinks the grog left out on the spirit houses and non of the many Thai's seem to care. Typically what the Thais have done is meld the old with the new to suit them.

[taxexile]

and just as pleasing to the spirits/gods

what spirits and gods ? the existence of spirits and gods has never been proven.

[jumnien]

and just as pleasing to the spirits/gods

what spirits and gods ? the existence of spirits and gods has never been proven.

The non-existence of spirits and gods has never been proven as well!

[dkstoney]

The earth is flat.

[garro]

I think that the existence of spirits is not really an issue. The fact is that people are doing something that brings them comfort and costs relatively little. Other people spend a gross amount of money on things which bring them comfort, and this is especially true for the West. It would seem a bit churlish for westerners to criticise Thais for maintaining their traditions.

The argument that the food and booze could be better used to feed the starving in Burma and China seems a bit naive to me (sorry OP). It gives no consideration for transport and administration costs of getting the food there.

Edited May 19, 2008 by garro

[taxexile]

The non-existence of spirits and gods has never been proven as well!

surely it would be logical to prove that something exists , before believing in it rather than the other way round , but then logic is something that has very little to do with religion and superstition.

a theory that is unfalsifiable is a very weak theory.

sometimes from the patterns of behaviour that are observable , i think that earth has been used as a prison colony and dumping ground by far off and superior civilisations , but i cant prove it , and therefore it must remain a weak theory.

[MISTERBONK]

The argument that the food and booze could be better used to feed the starving in Burma and China seems a bit naive to me (sorry OP). It gives no consideration for transport and administration costs of getting the food there.

But the money spent weekly (likely many millions of baht) could be donated to the aid agencies. Food could then be bought locally instead of perishing in the locals houses.

Cannibalism used to be a tradition in rural Africa, and clitorectamy still sadly is although not so prevalent. Times change - traditions change and what better reason today for change than the terrible conditions in our neighbouring countries.

The existence or non existence of gods and spirits is not relevant in this topic, since if the Thais are giving food, it is they that believe in their existence.

[toptuan]

I had the same feeling when I visited St. Peters in the Vatican.

[Carib]

Go to the backdoor of any restaurant, and i donot even mean in Thailand, and see what is thrown away......

I cannot be made responsible, nor will i have to excuse myself for the "rich enviroment" i live in. My own standards are not to throw things away, but even if i did, nobody in burma would notice.

The only thing i can do, is to donate, and hope that it gets there where it is needed.

[MISTERBONK]

I had the same feeling when I visited St. Peters in the Vatican.

Beliefs, religious or otherwise are largely responsible for so many of the world's problems.

[jumnien]

What problems? Do you believe there are problems?

[Naam]

sometimes from the patterns of behaviour that are observable , i think that earth has been used as a prison colony and dumping ground by far off and superior civilisations , but i cant prove it , and therefore it must remain a weak theory.

but there is proof for your theory! our ancient klingon scripts clearly mention that æons ago our ancestors cleansed planet Klingon and deported all unwanted lifeforms to a planet named "Sol 3"

[pumpuiman]

Why worship in expensive churches? Why travel to see family at Christmas? Why feast on Thanksgiving?

Why does the Pope wear such a big elaborate hat?

[Gary A]

As has been mentioned in previous posts, I am sickened every time I see an elaborate catholic church. Talk about a waste!

[taxexile]

religions are all about power , they speak about the bliss of the next world , but they just want power in this one.

gross displays of wealth , and keeping the masses poor are just ways of flexing that power.

whether it be in gold plated catholic churches , massive and intimidating church of england cathedrals , or shiny tinselly budhist temples , most of the money to build these things comes from the poor and uneducated who are also the most receptive to religious and superstitious mumbo jumbo.

[prakhonchai nick]

As has been mentioned in previous posts, I am sickened every time I see an elaborate catholic church. Talk about a waste!

Agreed. But why restrict it to elaborate catholic churches. It applies equally to places of worship of all faiths.

[Gary A]

As has been mentioned in previous posts, I am sickened every time I see an elaborate catholic church. Talk about a waste!

Agreed. But why restrict it to elaborate catholic churches. It applies equally to places of worship of all faiths.

Mainly because I was born and raised catholic. I felt more comfortable criticizing something that I was a part of.

[jumnien]

Personally, I think the Golden Arches of McDonald's are far more frequent in these parts that large excessive cathedrals!

[coventry]

In my opinion it is important that people at least try and show some respect for the culture in a country where they are a guest, and you seem to be aware of this. Most people have cultural norms which others might not understand. For example the large amount of money that many westerners are willing to pee down the toilet in bars, or the amount spent on Christmas presents that are never opened, may seem a big waste to those from other cultures.

I think that spirit houses perform important psychological, social, and family cohesion functions.

I don't think it is anything to do with culture. Thais are full of supertstition, based on ignorance and poor education. As long as they are kept ignorant then they will always live in the world of ghosts and tooth fairies. My wife doesn't believe in ghosts but when I asked why she has a ghost house she says because people will think of her bad if she doesn't have one. Edited May 19, 2008 by coventry

[ilyushin]

It creates a balance. Not only in the masses that exercise the worship, but even the drunken Thai guy. What comes around goes around. It makes people have hope and try to do good. Deep it is a respect for others and the cultural institution of belonging to a group of others who share a common belief. Who is the odd one out in this picture? You should embrace the very institution you seem to hate to try and understand it. You are now a 5th wheel and will only create an unbalance for those around you. Obviously not everyone is as blessed as you are so when they do something to bless themselves and others don't spit in the faces with you selfish and uninvited arrogance.

Common sense would serve you well living in Asia.

[bergen]

The earth is flat.

Not where I come from, and not where I'm now - I see mountains and hills

[toptuan]

... æons ago our ancestors cleansed planet Klingon and deported all unwanted lifeforms to a planet named "Sol 3"

I do believe researches have uncovered that this was a misprint in the Klingon historical documents. It should read "Soi 3," presumably a Bangkok or Pattaya address on that Third Rock from the Sun.

Edited May 19, 2008 by toptuan

[rockyysdt]

surely it would be logical to prove that something exists , before believing in it rather than the other way round , but then logic is something that has very little to do with religion and superstition.

a theory that is unfalsifiable is a very weak theory.

sometimes from the patterns of behaviour that are observable , i think that earth has been used as a prison colony and dumping ground by far off and superior civilisations , but i cant prove it , and therefore it must remain a weak theory.

The way I see it, both believers and non believers might be equally wrong.

The logical position is to have an open mind.

Those who categorically state that God doesn't exist or that there is no spiritual world must also be able to prove it.

If religions have got it wrong, surely you can only blame the people who run them (politics & power), not the being which they worship.

Even though customs have their place amongst societies, I'd love to be able to cull out barbaric or irrelevant practices throughout the world.

[Dave the Dude]

whether it be in gold plated catholic churches , massive and intimidating church of england cathedrals , or shiny tinselly budhist temples , most of the money to build these things comes from the poor and uneducated who are also the most receptive to religious and superstitious mumbo jumbo.

The CURRENT news in the UK is that The Church of England is to sell off many churches do to the fact that they are empty and surplus to modern society.

I don't know if this is a good thing, nor do I care.

I believe all these religious fairy tales as much as I believe The Life of Brian was factual!

Dave

Edited May 19, 2008 by Dave the Dude

[jumnien]

I fear that the OP lives in a world challenged by his own perceptions. I really doubt that anywhere in Thailand they are using half of the food from local markets to apease the gods.

[garro]

<br />

In my opinion it is important that people at least try and show some respect for the culture in a country where they are a guest, and you seem to be aware of this. Most people have cultural norms which others might not understand. For example the large amount of money that many westerners are willing to pee down the toilet in bars, or the amount spent on Christmas presents that are never opened, may seem a big waste to those from other cultures. <br /><br />I think that spirit houses perform important psychological, social, and family cohesion functions.

I don't think it is anything to do with culture. Thais are full of supertstition, based on ignorance and poor education. As long as they are kept ignorant then they will always live in the world of ghosts and tooth fairies. My wife doesn't believe in ghosts but when I asked why she has a ghost house she says because people will think of her bad if she doesn't have one.

Oh dear, plenty of educated people believe in unusual things. Don't you see that? The arrogance of claiming that people that think differently from you do so because they are uneducated, and are ignorant, is a bit much, don't you think? Get over yourself and allow that other people might have a point of view as equal to respect as your own.

[coventry]

<br />

In my opinion it is important that people at least try and show some respect for the culture in a country where they are a guest, and you seem to be aware of this. Most people have cultural norms which others might not understand. For example the large amount of money that many westerners are willing to pee down the toilet in bars, or the amount spent on Christmas presents that are never opened, may seem a big waste to those from other cultures. <br /><br />I think that spirit houses perform important psychological, social, and family cohesion functions.

I don't think it is anything to do with culture. Thais are full of supertstition, based on ignorance and poor education. As long as they are kept ignorant then they will always live in the world of ghosts and tooth fairies. My wife doesn't believe in ghosts but when I asked why she has a ghost house she says because people will think of her bad if she doesn't have one.

Oh dear, plenty of educated people believe in unusual things. Don't you see that? The arrogance of claiming that people that think differently from you do so because they are uneducated, and are ignorant, is a bit much, don't you think? Get over yourself and allow that other people might have a point of view as equal to respect as your own.

I'm educated and am not ignorant, just level headed. If a door closes on it's own, according, I logically think of a reason why ? I don't automatically think ghost. The Thai will in most cases. Get over yourself what ever that means.

Edited May 19, 2008 by coventry

[blue eyes]

Back to the orignal post.In our moo ban what most people do is set up their offerings to the spirit house, food water and sometime wiskey.Pray a little then sit around and talk for a short time,to give the "spirits time to eat and drink.And then collect what had been left and take it home to eat and drink.If you do see any left it is such a small amount it does not matter.