Culinary Racism (by Thais Against Farangs)

[Jingthing]

I go to all kinds of places. All kinds. I never said it happened all the time. It happens sometimes. I can't quantify it with a percentage really. Now if I did go to a tourist oriented Thai restaurant I would only expect tourist oriented food and would find no cause for complaint if I got what I expected. Of course, I personally avoid such places like the plague. I am talking about regular places where regular Thai people and some expats go. In the case of the Thai Chinese restaurant I did recognize they are attracting Chinese tourists who of course expect decent Thai Chinese food at a Thai Chinese restaurant, AS DID I. the difference is they got it. Last time I didn't. I would have NEVER happened to an Asian. So can you please get that RACE does have alot to do with this? If you don't acknowledge this obvious fact, that these decisions are made on RACE (not even nationality) then we can't even really have an intelligent conversation on this issue. i didn't create this racist behavior, nor do I desire, it now it is not OK to even talk about it?

So according to the Thais are always right crowd, do you seriously believe I was not in the right CONFRONTING this Thai waitress who made a racist decision about what food to bring me? Are you mice or men? Some say it is IGNORANCE, not RACISM. So if it is ignorance, did I not do a service educating this waitress that at least some farangs are going to be very offended by what she did? Or do you shameless apologists think Thais should be protected from education?

Maybe this would be a troll thread if I was making this stuff up. I am not. It is real. If the topic doesn't interest you, ignore it.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Jingthing

[jumnien]

Maybe the restaurant remembers the time when they put exactly the same amount of MSG in the food as they always do and some loudmouth Australian woman accused them of attempted murder and tried to close them down.

[Jingthing]

Maybe the restaurant remembers the time when they put exactly the same amount of MSG in the food as they always do and some loudmouth Australian woman accused them of attempted murder and tried to close them down.

This wasn't an MSG issue and I think your comment is rather daft.

[jumnien]

Maybe the restaurant remembers the time when they put exactly the same amount of MSG in the food as they always do and some loudmouth Australian woman accused them of attempted murder and tried to close them down.

This wasn't an MSG issue and I think your comment is rather daft.

I think you have issues other than MSG then. By the way, I thought your comment was brilliant and you are beautiful. Have a great afternoon!

[t.s]

I go to all kinds of places. All kinds. I never said it happened all the time. It happens sometimes. I can't quantify it with a percentage really. Now if I did go to a tourist oriented Thai restaurant I would only expect tourist oriented food and would find no cause for complaint if I got what I expected. Of course, I personally avoid such places like the plague. I am talking about regular places where regular Thai people and some expats go. In the case of the Thai Chinese restaurant I did recognize they are attracting Chinese tourists who of course expect decent Thai Chinese food at a Thai Chinese restaurant, AS DID I. the difference is they got it. Last time I didn't. I would have NEVER happened to an Asian. So can you please get that RACE does have alot to do with this? If you don't acknowledge this obvious fact, that these decisions are made on RACE (not even nationality) then we can't even really have an intelligent conversation on this issue. i didn't create this racist behavior, nor do I desire, it now it is not OK to even talk about it?

So according to the Thais are always right crowd, do you seriously believe I was not in the right CONFRONTING this Thai waitress who made a racist decision about what food to bring me? Are you mice or men? Some say it is IGNORANCE, not RACISM. So if it is ignorance, did I not do a service educating this waitress that at least some farangs are going to be very offended by what she did? Or do you shameless apologists think Thais should be protected from education?

ride don quixote ride.

so often it is hard to differentiate between the trolls and the morons

[HS Mauberley]

So according to the Thais are always right crowd, do you seriously believe I was not in the right CONFRONTING this Thai waitress who made a racist decision about what food to bring me? Are you mice or men? Some say it is IGNORANCE, not RACISM. So if it is ignorance, did I not do a service educating this waitress that at least some farangs are going to be very offended by what she did? Or do you shameless apologists think Thais should be protected from education?

I take it back. These poor benighted souls should worship the very dirt you walk on. Light of the West, giver of wisdom and all that is good in the world, by the grace of God and her Imperial Majesty Queen Victoria, bring your boundless knowledge to these damned heathen souls. And if these bloody fuzzy-wuzzies won't behave, a crack of the horsewhip is in order - too bloody stupid to know what's good for themselves, eh?

Edited May 27, 2008 by HS Mauberley

[steveromagnino]

In the case of the Thai Chinese restaurant I did recognize they are attracting Chinese tourists who of course expect decent Thai Chinese food at a Thai Chinese restaurant, AS DID I. the difference is they got it. Last time I didn't.

For the most part Chinese tourists cannot handle proper Thai food either; if it is a restuarant catering to Chinese tourists then it is either chinese style food (i.e. not Thai) or probably Thai food watered down a bit.

All tourist trap restuarants suck for the most part.

Curious as to why you think the other tourists (Chinese) aren't also being fed similar bland fare....did you taste it?

'It would have NEVER happened to an Asian'

Sorry, but I think you are very very much mistaken; the tourist restuarants set up for Chinese and Japanese tuorists appeal to the same taste buds somewhat as westerners; and taste like dishwater also.

You got served tourist tasting food at a restuarant; you couldn't clearly request that you wanted it to taste like Thai style and you got them to apologise.

Sorry, but not sure what the big story is here?

My guess is they served you the wrong order but ah well, maybe the racist insinuations don't weigh on me as much as some, after all I am just a dumb 'Asian' so I probably should be practising my english to deal with the next farang that kindly compliments me that I can 'speak english good good, smart boy'

no S^&t sherlock, my GMAT higher than yours boyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Anyhow, I suggest you don't eat there, and start eating somewhere else.

Same as I cannot stand some places...so I just don't go.

Edited May 27, 2008 by steveromagnino

[chickenslegs]

If you are given different goods or services (worse or better) on the grounds of your race, you have suffered (or enjoyed) racial discrimination.

However ‘racism’ is a highly emotive word – normally reserved for more serious situations.

IMHO

Being turned down for a job on the grounds of race alone – racism

Being arrested for a crime on the grounds of race alone – racism

Being verbally or physically abused on the grounds of race alone – racism

Being subjected to ridicule on the grounds of race alone – racism

Etc.

Being given a westernized version of a Thai dish on the grounds of race alone – annoying

I would be very surprised if hatred of foreigners was the reason the dish was prepared differently.

I'm not saying the OP is wrong - just not right

[cophen]

I've been in Chinese restaurants outside of Thailand with Chinese friends and there has been the menu and there has also been the menu that isn't written anywhere but is read out to them in Chinese.

That happens all over the world. It's called 'today's specials'.

[LooseCannon]

I go to all kinds of places. All kinds. I never said it happened all the time. It happens sometimes. I can't quantify it with a percentage really. Now if I did go to a tourist oriented Thai restaurant I would only expect tourist oriented food and would find no cause for complaint if I got what I expected. Of course, I personally avoid such places like the plague. I am talking about regular places where regular Thai people and some expats go. In the case of the Thai Chinese restaurant I did recognize they are attracting Chinese tourists who of course expect decent Thai Chinese food at a Thai Chinese restaurant, AS DID I. the difference is they got it. Last time I didn't. I would have NEVER happened to an Asian. So can you please get that RACE does have alot to do with this? If you don't acknowledge this obvious fact, that these decisions are made on RACE (not even nationality) then we can't even really have an intelligent conversation on this issue. i didn't create this racist behavior, nor do I desire, it now it is not OK to even talk about it?

So according to the Thais are always right crowd, do you seriously believe I was not in the right CONFRONTING this Thai waitress who made a racist decision about what food to bring me? Are you mice or men? Some say it is IGNORANCE, not RACISM. So if it is ignorance, did I not do a service educating this waitress that at least some farangs are going to be very offended by what she did? Or do you shameless apologists think Thais should be protected from education?

Maybe this would be a troll thread if I was making this stuff up. I am not. It is real. If the topic doesn't interest you, ignore it.

From your responses it seems that it really doesn't happen that often, just every now & again.

Have you ever thought that it just a mistake?

No ulterior motive at all, maybe due to staff incompetence, nervousness in serving a farang, laziness or just lack of attention to detail.

People do have 'off' days.

Have you ever thought that they don't understand your Thai?

You may think that your pronunciation is good, but to some people you could be hard to understand & maybe you are not quite as articulate as you like to think that you are.

Maybe your demeanor is a little bit intimidating & you come accross as a total ars*hole & they don't want you in their restaurant.

Maybe some people resent your 'training' techniques.

You talk about 'educating' one particular waitress, but it sounds more like a public humiliation.

You have made a lot of vague generalizations but have only documented the one case of returning to a restaurant & getting a poor meal. Maybe the chef was sick, or asleep & resentful that you had disturbed him, who knows? But categorically declaring it to be racist & continuing to argue the point makes you look foolish.

"Or do you shameless apologists think Thais should be protected from education?" - From the form of education as dispensed by yourself - yes.

[burman]

I've experienced being served different food because I am a farang too. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

[cophen]

So according to the Thais are always right crowd, do you seriously believe I was not in the right CONFRONTING this Thai waitress who made a racist decision about what food to bring me? Are you mice or men? Some say it is IGNORANCE, not RACISM. So if it is ignorance, did I not do a service educating this waitress that at least some farangs are going to be very offended by what she did? Or do you shameless apologists think Thais should be protected from education?

The problem is that you're complaining to the wrong person. What you need to do is to go into the kitchen and look for the guy holding the meat cleaver. He'll be the chef - the guy who actually cooked your food rather than simply delivered it to your table. You then need to humiliate him. Let us know how you get on. Let us know whether you're a mouse or a man.

Edited May 27, 2008 by cophen

[TheDon]

yeah you have to tell them when your ordering i think.

Because I say majority of farangs cant handle the spicy stuff and they are just trying to be nice and not burn the farangs face off.

Pulling out th racist word because they want to save farangs taste buds from not burning off is incorrect.

[grtaylor]

Because I say majority of farangs cant handle the spicy stuff and they are just trying to be nice and not burn the farangs face off.

I say again - I think this nonsense. I've met many more Thais who don't like spicy food than Farangs!

[steveromagnino]

Because I say majority of farangs cant handle the spicy stuff and they are just trying to be nice and not burn the farangs face off.

I say again - I think this nonsense. I've met many more Thais who don't like spicy food than Farangs!

ok pop quiz.

Out of the about 4m farang tourists that compe to Thailand a year, what % you think can actually eat local food; genuine local food?

I am putting it at something less than 5%.

For the about 200,000 farangs living here (total guess) more or less permanently, i'd say maybe of the ones I know, something like 20% at the absolute most can eat genuine Thai food. And within that, there are probably 1/4 (5% total) that eat the hottest foods known to man.

So with odds like that....in a town like Phuket or Pattaya....that's why the food tastes like slop unless you go where the local folk eat. (What's going on bpoo, we'll have no trouble here! This is a local shop, for local folk)

If you are going to tell me that there is a smaller number of Thais than that who enjoy hot food...sorry I just am not seeing or believing it.

[tw25rw]

I had dinner with a couple of bargirls on my last trip. While ordering, I heard one tell the waitress "mai pet", which I understood so I piped up "no I want pet".. They looked surprised but pleased.

When the food came, I added more chili to it, but it still wasn't that firey. I'm either immune, or Thai food really isn't that spicey.

I remember my first trip when I stayed at the Nana hotel.. I ordered something, which came with the little dish of chili, and tipped the lot in. Didn't do that again, but still put as much as the Thais I'm with.

[TheDon]

Because I say majority of farangs cant handle the spicy stuff and they are just trying to be nice and not burn the farangs face off.

I say again - I think this nonsense. I've met many more Thais who don't like spicy food than Farangs!

That sounds nonesense. I havent met any Thai's who dont like spicy food.

I live in Sydney and hardly any westerners can eat spicy food. My mate ate sweet chilli sause once and he was dying as he said that was spicy.

So do you think more Farangs eat spicier food then Thai's? Thats as funny as the Thread made some time ago that farangs age better then Thai's

[jumnien]

Yes, many farangs eat far spicier food than some Thais. Mexican food can be far hotter. Regardless, the defining characteristic of native Thai food is not its spiciness, but rather its oiliness and its sweetness. Thais use more oil in their cuisine than they use in their cars! And don't get me started on the amount of sugar used in these parts.

[grtaylor]

Because I say majority of farangs cant handle the spicy stuff and they are just trying to be nice and not burn the farangs face off.

I say again - I think this nonsense. I've met many more Thais who don't like spicy food than Farangs!

ok pop quiz.

Out of the about 4m farang tourists that compe to Thailand a year, what % you think can actually eat local food; genuine local food?

I am putting it at something less than 5%.

For the about 200,000 farangs living here (total guess) more or less permanently, i'd say maybe of the ones I know, something like 20% at the absolute most can eat genuine Thai food. And within that, there are probably 1/4 (5% total) that eat the hottest foods known to man.

So with odds like that....in a town like Phuket or Pattaya....that's why the food tastes like slop unless you go where the local folk eat. (What's going on bpoo, we'll have no trouble here! This is a local shop, for local folk)

If you are going to tell me that there is a smaller number of Thais than that who enjoy hot food...sorry I just am not seeing or believing it.

Actually what I meant was that of the Thais I have eaten with, many of them do not like spicy food. They are happier with a bowl of rather bland noodles. I was not talking about the entire population, nor comparing proportions.

My main argument is with the concept that the majority of farangs can't eat spicy food - I don't believe that. Of course, that again depends on whether one is talking about farangs world-wide or farangs in Thailand. As this thread was about food here, I was talking about farangs in Thailand.

[JetsetBkk]

I've experienced being served different food because I am a farang too. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

And did you feel insulted by it and start a topic on Thaivisa about it accusing the Thais of culinary racism?

No.

Because you are grown up.

[samran]

this thread is sad, so sad.

We have a bunch of professional victims, who are so politically correct, that they need for find 'racism' in how someone serves their meal.

It isn't racism for fcuks sake! It is some resturant owner or chef who thinks they know that you don't like hot or 'exotic' tasting food. The thing is, as a business owner, they are doing the right thing.

My parents owned the first thai restaurant in Australia, and ran it for 20 years. Their menu was 'dumbed down' for the local market, but hey, it was a very lucrative business. They tried from time to time to make some 'authentic' dishes and they didn't sell.

Are my parents racist? No fugging way they are.

[XTREME]

I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area for many years and have run into the situations like this many times mainly in chinese restaurants. They would list all the good stuff in chinese on the wall and if you asked them what it was they wouldnt tell me or say I wouldnt like it. If I would go to a restaurant with a chinese friend we would get all these wonderful chinese vegetables but not one was listed on the menu. When I would order some authentic dishes there was always a look of surprise that a white person would order something like that. I was in one restaurant once and noticed a different menu behind the counter that was written in both chinese and english and when I asked them to see it they said :"Oh thats chinese menu you won't like it" and I said I want to see it. And god forbid you ask them to explain one of the dishes. They would just answer it is made with some sauce and give you this look like just order the sweet and sour pork and leave me alone. Sure enough it had alot of great dishes. Plus they were usually alot cheaper. Not all places are like this but alot are. It also had alot of dishes that I or most white people would never order but that should be up to me to decide. I once was eating at a Thai restaurant in San Francisco and ordered Pad See Ew. Well it arrived with regular broccoli not chinese broccoli. It even said on the menu that it was made with chinese broccoli. When I asked the waiter why it wasnt made with chinese broccoli his response was most americans dont like chinese broccoli you have to ask for it. Who is he to decide what I may or may not like? And even if you asked them to make it spicy they still wouldnt make it spicy. How would he feel if he went to an american restaurant and ordered a steak and instead received a hamburger because the staff felt he wouldnt like it. Or what if a chinese or thai person went to an american restaurant and there was nothin on the menu except hamburgers and hotdogs and pizza?

[Ijustwannateach]

Btw, Steve, your posts above remind me of a funny afternoon about 4 years ago- a teacher from the South decided to cook us up a genuine Southern curry in a hotpot in the teacher's room. The fumes alone were strong enough to drive everyone (including all the non-Southern Thais!) from the room!

P.S. I've heard dem Asians don't want to hurt us, dey only want our computers!

Hey, we just wanna play counterstrike and Ragnarok ok???!

Counterstrike I can live with; but Ragnarok simply has no point.

So...did you try the southern Curry? Man, I love Southern food, definitely my favourite of Thai regional cuisine; northern too bland, Northeastern good, but southern....oh man ( that's an attempt to show me licking my lips and being a bit Pavlov's salivating dog theory)

I *did* try it- it was less spicy than the fumes seemed to indicate for some reason. It used beans from the pods of one of those big trees with the flaming orange branches of blossoms- the way she said the name sounded like "Sathorn" like the road, but I've never been able to reproduce the tones of it properly. The beans were interestingly bitter.

I'd have to admit that I'm among the many foreigners that you identify as not particularly fond of 'real' Thai food, though I can eat it and enjoy some of it. I like Isaan food, and most versions of Thai food that come in fairly nice restaurants; but most of the stuff that comes out of the food stalls out in the suburbs of Bangkok is, well- pretty missable to me, and not because of the peppers.

However, I'm not being fair to the cuisine because I know food stalls don't compare to home cooking- and on the occasions when I've had *that*, it has been an eye-opener.

Usually my problem is the opposite of the OP's- I forget to say 'mai phet' and suddenly I'm eating 3-chili som tam!

I agree with Samran that in cases where this happens, it's the cook/wait staff just trying to do his/her best to please a customer, and if the good intentions go awry then at least you know they were trying. I'd suggest they should be rewarded for the effort, not shamed. The flip side of this would be restauranteurs who don't take the individual tastes of their customers into account at *all*.

"S"

[jaideeguy]

On the home front, where I do 50% of the cooking, the Thai wife is definately closed minded when it comes to falang food [she influences the kids as well] and I insist that they just taste it before making a snotty face. the wife does taste it and 50% of the time likes it, then the kids folllow moma.

I am an open minded eater and will [and have] try anything at least once...including bugs, snakes, dogs, stink fish. Don't often repeat some things, but at least I can say that I tried it.

[Crushdepth]

So according to the Thais are always right crowd, do you seriously believe I was not in the right CONFRONTING this Thai waitress who made a racist decision about what food to bring me? Are you mice or men? Some say it is IGNORANCE, not RACISM.

Yes, I think you were wrong and also that you have mis-read their intent. Usually restaurant staff do this out of concern for the comfort of the guest. Making an assumption about your food preferences based on the (presumably obvious) fact that you are not Thai does not constitute racism, particularly when you consider it is hard for them to communicate with you. Could you get through a day without making a few assumptions of your own?

[steveromagnino]

I *did* try it- it was less spicy than the fumes seemed to indicate for some reason. It used beans from the pods of one of those big trees with the flaming orange branches of blossoms- the way she said the name sounded like "Sathorn" like the road, but I've never been able to reproduce the tones of it properly. The beans were interestingly bitter.

Just as a slight hijack, I think you mean:

stor

pronounced

sa-tor

(sa very short sound as Thais do with S sounds like this, tor rhymes with law, door, whore, more)

A greeen thing that looks like a very flat massive sized bean right? Actually, one of my family have just brought up some stor for me to eat I think tonight or all times! Yep, lovely, in itself not hot, but often served in a curry or fried that makes it a bit spicy.

YUM!

[Prakanong]

I *did* try it- it was less spicy than the fumes seemed to indicate for some reason. It used beans from the pods of one of those big trees with the flaming orange branches of blossoms- the way she said the name sounded like "Sathorn" like the road, but I've never been able to reproduce the tones of it properly. The beans were interestingly bitter.

Just as a slight hijack, I think you mean:

stor

pronounced

sa-tor

(sa very short sound as Thais do with S sounds like this, tor rhymes with law, door, whore, more)

A greeen thing that looks like a very flat massive sized bean right? Actually, one of my family have just brought up some stor for me to eat I think tonight or all times! Yep, lovely, in itself not hot, but often served in a curry or fried that makes it a bit spicy.

YUM!

I would not let the ex anywhere near me after she ate that - worse than durian

A bag of it was brought up from Samui and stunk the place out for a week

[cobra]

Just the other day I ordered rad na talay in clear Thai and was given a completely different dish (not gravy) in a place where most of the Thai people were indeed eating proper rad na.

To the person who tells me it is my fault and not the restaurants fault when they bugger up my food when I did NOT ask them to, you live on a different planet than me, sorry. If I return to the Thai Chinese place in question, I think they will remember me already because I made them admit they would have brought entirely different food if I had not been a farang. The waitress looked very embarrassed when she admitted this, the kind of embarrassment a BUSTED racist would feel when confronted.

Congratulations. You managed to humiliate a waitress; you must feel so proud.

And as someone who is squealing so loudly about racism, don't you think you should cut down on the groundless and...racist...stereotypes.

Pure, unadulterated troll.

Ah, he's actually not a troll, troll-like yes, he see's conspiracies in every interaction, racism around every bend, and the baht bus mafia ... don't get him started, from art dealers that wouldn't let him use their pencil, to whether waiters were insulting him behind his back, his posts starting to reveal his growing paranoia, the baht bus cartel grows increasing annoyed Jing, RIP

Edited May 28, 2008 by cobra

[thaihome]

I have experienced mild forms of this at times as well. I have never thought of it as racism, but I do find it extremely patronizing, which is just an irritant, almost always easily handled.

TH

Main Entry: rac•ism

Function: noun

Date: 1933

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Main Entry: pa•tron•ize

Function: transitive verb

Inflected Form(s): pa•tron•ized; pa•tron•iz•ing

Date: 1589

1 : to act as patron of : provide aid or support for

2 : to adopt an air of condescension toward : treat haughtily or coolly

3 : to be a frequent or regular customer or client of

[kingwilly]

Some people care more about FOOD than others. That's all I can say. It is not silly. Read the food blogs in the US about the treatment of ROUND EYES as they call them at all kinds of Asian restaurants. This is a huge issue in foodie circles. In the US in many ways it is worse. Chinese language only menus (never translated) where all the "good stuff" is listed are very common. The round eyes get to choose the sweet and sour pork or lemon chicken, while the Asians are offered gourmet feasts. But the thing is, alot of non-Asians really love real Asian food.

Pillock