Ee Connee Mee

[p1p]

Just a few things I have noticed in CM recently about our local economy. Costs are shooting upwards and things are not as easy as they once used to be.

Firstly - Marks & Spencer couldn't make a go of it and haver decamped to Bangkok. We now have no good supply of real English strong teabags here and I am beginning to suffer.

Went to Muang Mai market a couple of days ago only to find that three of my usual five suppliers there have gone out of business. They can't make any margin on the meat/poultry/seafood they wholesale and have thrown in the towel. These were good, hard working, honest people who cared about the quality of their produce and were willing to go out of their way to provide a service way over and beyond the norm. Others were intimating their demise was imminent too.

I am not one of the wealthy residents of this city. We have a hard struggle to find enough to cover our costs of living now, but I have close friends on (US) pensions and/or disability who are frankly not surviving any longer on their income. Being unwell and unable to afford the cost of transport to the doctor is no joke, (forget the doctor's fees or cost of medication.) Nor is the necessity of having to survive predominantly on rice and cabbage. It seems reminiscent of Selarang or Changi '45.

I help out where I can - but the time is coming when charity has to begin and remain at home, or there will be no home.

What is your experience. (Try to keep this CM related.)

[taurusguy]

Chiangmai is not the only city suffering from the downturn.Everywhere else in the world are having the same problems; inflation, rocketing fuel prices, etc. If I have to compare the cost of living between Arizona and Chiangmai, the latter will always prevail. That's why I'm still here.

Look at the bright side, things will turn for the better.

[cmsally]

Definitely getting more expensive as it is throughout the world.

Food and fuel definitely the main culprits. Anyone noticed a big jump in other costs?

I am surprised to hear that it has affected foreigners on pensions so much.

I think living here you have to overestimate your costs by a big margin and make sure you have medical insurance.

Rising costs must push a lot of the restaurant businesses to the brink, I have heard many complaining.

It would be interesting to see how much the big guys (LOtus, Carrefour etc) are squeezing their suppliers to max. their profit.

My opinion has always been they want to squeeze out the smaller people so they can hike up their prices and we will be left with no choice. Much like the rest of the world I guess.

[PeaceBlondie]

I know an American on retirement income who lost his ATM card this month. He had no reserves to get by.

I know a farang teacher whose customer base of international students has dried up after the students got fluent in English and the families' foreign currency got battered. One of the families withdrew their children from an expensive international school, moved out of the more expensive moobahn, and the kids are now attending Thai school - but they speak no Thai!

I know sexpats who no longer can feed their habit in the style to which they were accustomed.

One of my old buddies says that three of his neighbors are leaving for Cambodia.

It is easy for those of us with sufficient income, to chastise those who came here with fewer reserves/income than we did. But there, but for the grace of God and the financial markets, go we.

[whatsoever]

I know an American on retirement income who lost his ATM card this month. He had no reserves to get by.

I know a farang teacher whose customer base of international students has dried up after the students got fluent in English and the families' foreign currency got battered. One of the families withdrew their children from an expensive international school, moved out of the more expensive moobahn, and the kids are now attending Thai school - but they speak no Thai!

I know sexpats who no longer can feed their habit in the style to which they were accustomed.

One of my old buddies says that three of his neighbors are leaving for Cambodia.

It is easy for those of us with sufficient income, to chastise those who came here with fewer reserves/income than we did. But there, but for the grace of God and the financial markets, go we.

Food prices are sky rocketing all over the planet. 25% increase this year in China alone (thats 1/4 for americans). In the Uk food and utility costs have gone into orbit (sorry about the cosmic analogys). Civil unrest and disobediance look likely if things continue. I hear many people in Thailand complaining about rip off school fees - they have concluded that they are paying more per month for a <deleted> education than what their kids will be likely to earn - eventualy.

NB Curious to think why you say that 'it is easy for those of us with sufficient income to chastise those who came here with fewer reserve'. Why on earth would you think of making such a statment???

[Bill97]

Driving on four wheels less.

Eating at foreign food restaurants less.

Shopping at traditional markets for food more.

Checking the phone bill more.

Considering non essential purchases more carefully.

Traveling less.

Tightening up can be good for the soul and will help us be ready for the time when it really hits the fan.

[Ajarn]

I think the same thing is happening to us that happened to our parents and grandparents. They all had similar cost inceases, and had to suffer through it with the rest. I'm not feeling any pressure yet, but that is going to change, I feel sure. In my opinion, being here is the best place for me to suffer...

[whatsoever]

I think the same thing is happening to us that happened to our parents and grandparents. They all had similar cost inceases, and had to suffer through it with the rest. I'm not feeling any pressure yet, but that is going to change, I feel sure. In my opinion, being here is the best place for me to suffer...

Nothing like this ever happened to my parents or grandparents: my parents are 40 something and grandparents 60 something!!!!!!!!

[PeaceBlondie]

This math teacher from America, son of a math major who earned his university degree in the USA in 1933, thanks 'whatsoever' for telling us what we knew in fourth grade mathematics class. Also, I never knew any Americans who regularly left their credit cards or passports out on the table.

A sexpat is somebody who spends lots of money on bargirls or bargoys every month.

My remarks about being thankful are directed at those who inevitably say, 'shame on you farang who had the stupidity to come here with less than I came to Thailand with." My apologies to those who mistakenly thought I was quoting them.

Back on topic, many foreigners (not all of them of European descent) in Chiang Mai are really hurting financially, and their nationality has little if anything to do with it..

[Ajarn]

I think the same thing is happening to us that happened to our parents and grandparents. They all had similar cost inceases, and had to suffer through it with the rest. I'm not feeling any pressure yet, but that is going to change, I feel sure. In my opinion, being here is the best place for me to suffer...

Nothing like this ever happened to my parents or grandparents: my parents are 40 something and grandparents 60 something!!!!!!!!

Sure it has, but you just weren't aware of it I suspect. Look at car prices, house prices, gas prices, and compare now to say, 1960... The typical salaries were way under 1,000 a month, with many jobs paying 3-4 hundred dollars a month. Look at the history of the last century with a ten year depression, war (which affected most everyone), and similar increases as now...

Edited May 29, 2008 by Ajarn

[whatsoever]

This math teacher from America, son of a math major who earned his university degree in the USA in 1933, thanks 'whatsoever' for telling us what we knew in fourth grade mathematics class. Also, I never knew any Americans who regularly left their credit cards or passports out on the table.

A sexpat is somebody who spends lots of money on bargirls or bargoys every month.

My remarks about being thankful are directed at those who inevitably say, 'shame on you farang who had the stupidity to come here with less than I came to Thailand with." My apologies to those who mistakenly thought I was quoting them.

Back on topic, many foreigners (not all of them of European descent) in Chiang Mai are really hurting financially, and their nationality has little if anything to do with it..

'those of us' implies that you you include youself in this financial snobbery. I dont understand your other point due to incomprehensible grammatical text!

[whatsoever]

I think the same thing is happening to us that happened to our parents and grandparents. They all had similar cost inceases, and had to suffer through it with the rest. I'm not feeling any pressure yet, but that is going to change, I feel sure. In my opinion, being here is the best place for me to suffer...

Nothing like this ever happened to my parents or grandparents: my parents are 40 something and grandparents 60 something!!!!!!!!

Sure it has, but you just weren't aware of it I suspect. Look at car prices, house prices, gas prices, and compare now to say, 1960... The typical salaries were way under 1,000 a month, with many jobs paying 3-400 hundred dollars a month. Look at the history of the last century with a ten year depression, war (which affected most everyone), and similar increases as now...

Ok, i'll come clean i am infact 40 something and i have never seen anything on this scale. Things are bad, bad, bad, - and getting worse!

[PeaceBlondie]

This math teacher from America, son of a math major who earned his university degree in the USA in 1933, thanks 'whatsoever' for telling us what we knew in fourth grade mathematics class. Also, I never knew any Americans who regularly left their credit cards or passports out on the table.

A sexpat is somebody who spends lots of money on bargirls or bargoys every month.

My remarks about being thankful are directed at those who inevitably say, 'shame on you farang who had the stupidity to come here with less than I came to Thailand with." My apologies to those who mistakenly thought I was quoting them.

Back on topic, many foreigners (not all of them of European descent) in Chiang Mai are really hurting financially, and their nationality has little if anything to do with it..

'those of us' implies that you you include youself in this financial snobbery. I dont understand your other point due to incomprehensible grammatical text!

Stop trying to cause trouble here. The post of mine you are quoting never said "those of us." The third paragraph says "those" twice, and never says "those of us." You may criticize my grammatical text after reviewing my last 1,900 posts. Also, you wrote "...you you would include youself..." Pot, kettle, black.

[gpdjohn]

I could not live in Arizona anymore with the cost of living going through the ceiling there.

I'm retired and still living comfortably here.

Still go out to dinner nightly, but watch what other things I spend on.

Drive a Vespa ( wife hates it, but tough poopy..I like it )

Own a wife ( I'll hear it on this statement) so no skirt chasing..

Rent my humble domicile

Watch movies on DVD

You Tube is my favorite TV channel

Drink cheap whiskey, not that Mekong crap..

Beer Chang..tasty, better than Miller light or Coors ( horse piss )

and eat at the fresh market.

and I have learned to love milk tea..

[sylviex]

The sands are shifting and quickly; no doubt.

I could never be an accountant; money calculations make me instantly itchy and thirsty. There is always and always has been something more interesting to do than that.

But recently I have, on occasion, lain awake estimating the money I have and could make against the years I have and might have ...

I understand almost nothing of economics, but doubt even the financial wizards have much certainty.

It is indeed quite scary, and yes, this feeling has come upon me and others I know fairly suddenly.

I agree that this may be a necessary, though major, turn of the gyre to redress global imbalances.

I eat but don't use much petrol. Better public transport must be a high priority for Chiang Mai.

We also need to be much more together as a community, so nobody need fear the day all financial systems fail. Some of the older expat folks' connections outside the Thai family of their teerak often seem minimal to non-existent.

Perhaps we can make a positive of this.

Edited May 29, 2008 by sylviex

[Ulysses G.]

The last 2 years have seen a dramatic drop in tourists, so my income has gone way down, but I put most of it back into the business anyway, so it hasn't affected my lifestyle too much.

As far as prices go, I ride my bicycle and everything else has pretty much stayed the same (other than the Duke's slow rise upward which he probably would have done anyway.

One thing that probably helps is that I am eating about 75% vegan food at the moment which tends to be Thai and not expensive, but that is for health reasons, rather than to save money.

All in all, I have been lucky so far.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The last 2 years have seen a dramatic drop in tourists, so my income has gone way down, but I put most of it back into the business anyway, so it hasn't affected my lifestyle too much.

As far as prices go, I ride my bicycle and everything else has pretty much stayed the same (other than the Duke's slow rise upward which he probably would have done anyway.

One thing that probably helps is that I am eating about 75% vegan food at the moment which tends to be Thai and not expensive, but that is for health reasons, rather than to save money.

All in all, I have been lucky so far.

its a good point that there are lots of ways to save money but many like myself have become lazy and spoiled... Thailand is still one of the cheapest places in the world with decent infrastructure. Lots of ways to cut costs with a little creativity. Hey how about Expats going on a diet?... Keep Thailand beautiful and lose 10 KG of protruding beer gut.

For those complaining about being squeezed on a fixed income then its pretty hard to not notice that CM is very expensive compared to anywhere else in the north... Lots of smaller towns to consider moving to where real estate and rents are much lower.... CM is like the Tokyo/NYC of northern Thailand...

[p1p]

For those complaining about being squeezed on a fixed income then its pretty hard to not notice that CM is very expensive compared to anywhere else in the north... Lots of smaller towns to consider moving to where real estate and rents are much lower.... CM is like the Tokyo/NYC of northern Thailand...

This is very true - but problematic if you have a family with children to try to give a good education. I'm afraid local provincial Thai schools just do not cut the mustard there.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

For those complaining about being squeezed on a fixed income then its pretty hard to not notice that CM is very expensive compared to anywhere else in the north... Lots of smaller towns to consider moving to where real estate and rents are much lower.... CM is like the Tokyo/NYC of northern Thailand...

This is very true - but problematic if you have a family with children to try to give a good education. I'm afraid local provincial Thai schools just do not cut the mustard there.

Yes and a lot of other factors too like health care, data communications, entertainment. shopping choices, airport proximity and social activities. I think its completely worth it to pay higher city prices and travel less. I would sooner get a mohawk at the barber shop before moving to the hinterlands. Big picture is that CM is still a super bargain as a place to live....

[sylviex]

Right; no value can be ascribed to a good education of the conventional kind, and better if possible.

BUT I can tell you something that may reassure you somewhat -- what children learn at school is overwhelmingly about knowing how to fit in at school, and only very little, relatively, about anything else.

"Social skills" come from home and outside, too. Home tutored kids tend to be brighter and more confident.

[lordofdelusion]

As my neighbor from Arizona, ( I'm from New Mexico) and others have pointed out, it is still cheaper to live here than back home. More expensive yes, but imagine if if you were one of the millions of Thais who farm, drive tuk tuks or operate the local food cart. Those people are really suffering.

I read an article about a year ago regarding wealth in the world. Much to my surprise, I was in the top 1% on the planet in net worth. It took only the equivilant of $250,000 US dollars to place in the top 2% on the PLANET! I try to count my blessings every day. Not the least of which is the opportunity to live a simpler life, eat more vegies, eat smaller portions, go without luxuries that I really don't need. I wasted too much of my life chasing "stuff". Now, out of necessity, I can look for something else for meaning in my life. My family and friends back home: they are busy trying to work a second job, max the credit cards, have weekly yard sales, have a meatless day in the menu, and drive that SUV less and maybe take a walk to the corner store for a change! I have free time to spend with my baby girl

[Dr. G]

Hi.

Some interesting points have been raised by p1p and other contributors.

For my self I find living in Chiang Mai inexpensive. I come from an Island off the west coast of Scotland, where the cost of living is far above that of Chiang Mai.

For example, Diesel is the equivalent of approximately Baht 91 per litre, a loaf of bread

is Baht 70

I don’t have an extravagant life style. I pay Baht 5000 per month for rent and eat in the Moon Muang Road area where there are many excellent restaurants.

Transport is not expensive. Flights from BKK to CM or say CM to Udon are of the order of Baht 2000. The 90 day run to Mae Sai or Nong Khai provides for the opportunity to pick up a couple of bottles of a good malt dram for less than the half price of that in Thailand or Scotland.

So all in all I find Chiang Mai is an enjoyable place to stay, having friendly people, good bars and restaurants, inexpensive accommodation, good travel facilities both regional and national and much more.

g

[Bill97]

Right; no value can be ascribed to a good education of the conventional kind, and better if possible.

BUT I can tell you something that may reassure you somewhat -- what children learn at school is overwhelmingly about knowing how to fit in at school, and only very little, relatively, about anything else.

"Social skills" come from home and outside, too. Home tutored kids tend to be brighter and more confident.

I have been saddened by some of the home tutored kids I have met in CM because of their lack of confidence. They just do not seem to function outside their homeschool group and have little knowledge about their surroundings.

Others I have met have been fine (not brighter or more confident) but it seems like about 50-50.

[gpdjohn]

As my neighbor from Arizona, ( I'm from New Mexico) and others have pointed out, it is still cheaper to live here than back home. More expensive yes, but imagine if if you were one of the millions of Thais who farm, drive tuk tuks or operate the local food cart. Those people are really suffering.

I read an article about a year ago regarding wealth in the world. Much to my surprise, I was in the top 1% on the planet in net worth. It took only the equivilant of $250,000 US dollars to place in the top 2% on the PLANET! I try to count my blessings every day. Not the least of which is the opportunity to live a simpler life, eat more vegies, eat smaller portions, go without luxuries that I really don't need. I wasted too much of my life chasing "stuff". Now, out of necessity, I can look for something else for meaning in my life. My family and friends back home: they are busy trying to work a second job, max the credit cards, have weekly yard sales, have a meatless day in the menu, and drive that SUV less and maybe take a walk to the corner store for a change! I have free time to spend with my baby girl

My Bruther..

[mcgriffith]

I ran some numbers about a week ago, where I discovered to my chagrin that I have lost precisely 35.5% of my purchasing power in less than 2 years; (in order) US dollar devaluation, bonds (gilts to the Brits) called and invested at lower interest rates, and inflation here in Thailand (I conservatively used a 4% figure per year).

Those of you from other countries with much stronger currencies in the market today- I say good on you, mate.

Still in the top 1 or 2% in net worth according to an above poster's parameters....but it has gotten very much more spendy.

More veggies, and less Leo beer, is my new mantra....

[ollylama]

I think the same thing is happening to us that happened to our parents and grandparents. They all had similar cost inceases, and had to suffer through it with the rest. I'm not feeling any pressure yet, but that is going to change, I feel sure. In my opinion, being here is the best place for me to suffer...

Nothing like this ever happened to my parents or grandparents: my parents are 40 something and grandparents 60 something!!!!!!!!

Sure it has, but you just weren't aware of it I suspect. Look at car prices, house prices, gas prices, and compare now to say, 1960... The typical salaries were way under 1,000 a month, with many jobs paying 3-400 hundred dollars a month. Look at the history of the last century with a ten year depression, war (which affected most everyone), and similar increases as now...

Ok, i'll come clean i am infact 40 something and i have never seen anything on this scale. Things are bad, bad, bad, - and getting worse!

Odd, as you indicated that "Nothing like this ever happened to my parents or grandparents: my parents are 40 something and grandparents 60 something!!!!!!!!"

So how old were your parents when they had you? Evidently under ten years old. Horny buggers.

[keo]

Firstly - Marks & Spencer couldn't make a go of it and haver decamped to Bangkok. We now have no good supply of real English strong teabags here and I am beginning to suffer.

My heart bleeds for you. M&S is probably the most expensive food chain store in the UK, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was comparatively even more expensive over here.

For my self I find living in Chiang Mai inexpensive. I come from an Island off the west coast of Scotland, where the cost of living is far above that of Chiang Mai.

For example, Diesel is the equivalent of approximately Baht 91 per litre, a loaf of bread

is Baht 70

I don’t have an extravagant life style. I pay Baht 5000 per month for rent and eat in the Moon Muang Road area where there are many excellent restaurants.

Transport is not expensive. Flights from BKK to CM or say CM to Udon are of the order of Baht 2000. The 90 day run to Mae Sai or Nong Khai provides for the opportunity to pick up a couple of bottles of a good malt dram for less than the half price of that in Thailand or Scotland.

So all in all I find Chiang Mai is an enjoyable place to stay, having friendly people, good bars and restaurants, inexpensive accommodation, good travel facilities both regional and national and much more.

g

amen to that.

But one question, Dr.G. How are you managing to cope without your M&S Finest Strong English Breakfast Tea?

This isn't just tea, this is the finest, handpicked by the lord Buddha himself, M&S tea... blah blah blah

Where are you from Dr.G? I'm a west coaster myself. Skelmorlie to be exact.

Anyway, cnx can be an inexpensive place to live, but for a foreigner it can very easily be an expensive place to live.

[cophen]

A sexpat is somebody who spends lots of money on bargirls or bargoys every month.

I didn't realise there were Gentile bargoys in Thailand

[chiangmaiexpat]

Yes, the ee connee mee is going downhill because of two factors, the oil price and the poor political leadership in Thailand (the former being a global problem... possibly due to peak oil). Prospects are gloomy and the local economy is definitely affected. People I know who work in the tourism and retail industries already feel the crunch. I am lucky, because my income doesn't depend on the Thai economy. But I still have to support a family and kids in international school here. We too made some changes. My wife sold the Mercedes earlier this year and changed it for a Japanese car that consumes less fuel. We buy more local products, less imports. We don't use aircon. We cut down on flying.

My feeling is that we are in for a long-term slump, but Chiang Mai will still be quite a good place to live.

Cheers, CMX

[billd766]

For those complaining about being squeezed on a fixed income then its pretty hard to not notice that CM is very expensive compared to anywhere else in the north... Lots of smaller towns to consider moving to where real estate and rents are much lower.... CM is like the Tokyo/NYC of northern Thailand...

This is very true - but problematic if you have a family with children to try to give a good education. I'm afraid local provincial Thai schools just do not cut the mustard there.

sylviex Posted Yesterday, 2008-05-29 20:12:05

Right; no value can be ascribed to a good education of the conventional kind, and better if possible.

BUT I can tell you something that may reassure you somewhat -- what children learn at school is overwhelmingly about knowing how to fit in at school, and only very little, relatively, about anything else.

"Social skills" come from home and outside, too. Home tutored kids tend to be brighter and more confident.

Whilst I do not live in Chiang Mai but down near Khampaeng Phet I am also feeling the pinch of living on a fixed income.

We live 6 km outside the nearest village and have lead a fairly comfortable life. However I have been following the Kasikorn Bank exchange rates (my local bank) and it seems to me that the baht has risen or the British pound fallen by some 15% since the beginning of December.

This in itself has caused me some problems but combined with the rise in the cost of diesel and the cost of most foods during the same period is causing me more concern.

I send my son to a school in another village 14km away and the cost including transport (which we will probably get a request for more money) is around 2,500 baht per 6 month term.

At least 2 other local people, one a shopkeeper and the other who works in a restaurant have stopped sending their children to the same school simply because they cannot afford it.

My wife opened a small shop and noodle stall in the local moo baan and she is doing fairly well but her costs have risen but her prices are the same though she is selling slightly smaller portions.

I am lucky to have 2 pensions, both of which I worked hard for and next year I will get the UK state pension which will bring us back to the comfort zone a bit.

I am hoping to get an offshore job this year (if it comes off) and with that income to buy more land for my wife and son and their future.

I have no doubt that things will improve and that there is a light at the end of tyhe tunnel. The big problem is that the light seems to be a long way away and I am not sure if it is a train coming to run me over or not.

I try to be positive and I woke this morning to find that at 64 I am still alive and relatively healthy and that there was food for us all to eat, somewhere to live and love in our lives.

I always remember the story that a man who had no shoes was sad and cried until he met a man with no feet.