Difficult Vaginal Penetration

[rockyysdt]

I'd take it one step at a time.

Make it clear to her that you're happy to avoid intercourse for the time being and concentrate on other methods of mutual gratification. You don't want her to develop a negative psychosis with you over your sexual encounters.

When you're both comfortable and relaxed, impress upon her your love and concern for her health and get agreement to have a full physical examination.

The first step is to eliminate physical trauma or damage as the cause of the problem.

Visit a good gynacologist to arrange a thorough physical examination and eliminate this as an issue.

Whether physical or not, if your wife has suffered for any length of time she may have developed deep psychological issues which can be difficult to overcome, especially if you contributed to the trauma with your encounters.

This will be the next step. I'd be concerned if there's substantial psychological trauma.

Although possible to correct many carry such damage for life.

I think your wife must play her part in repairing the relationship by being honest with you about her past.

This will test how much she loves you.

[centric]

The tight spasms preventing penetration you describe is known as vaginismus and basically, it is a fear response over which she has no voluntary control. Now it could be that she has some physical problem which causes intercourse to be very painful, in turn making he rfear the pain and tense up (hence a check up with a Thai female Ob-Gyn is a good idea) but it is also possible that the fear is psychological.

By all means, check up if possible. Plenty of female Ob-Gyns around.

Beyond that, I would say just be loving, take it slow and easy, don't try to get her to over night put aside a lifetime of conditioning. Keep the sex in the night for now, don't talk directly about it, and above all approach it in a loving and romantic way. Not a recreational way.. That is a turn-off for many women, especially those from a conservative background. And work on the emotional side of the relationship, building trust and a sense of emotional security. That and patience will help.

If you can, I would also suggest that you put intercourse on the back burner for now and just do what she is comfortable with and enjoys. Let the next attempt at penetration be at her urging/invitation, even if that takes weeks or months to occur.

I have removed some posts suggesting the op is a wind up cause whether the op is a troll or not (& it isn't proven at all that it is) doesn't detract from a very interesting & useful subject that may in future help someone else.

It isn't important if the op is genuine or not based on the opinion of a couple of others as the topic itself is valid & hasn't, apart from one posters need to prove himself right, gone off topic & has produced some useful suggestions.

Internets been off for a few days so I couldn't reply.

Why should I lie abut this. It is both sensitive and frustrating. Very difficult to deal with too.

She will talk a little about sex for starters. It is a taboo subject.

Getting her to see a Gyn Obs is not going to be easy.

I have read about vaginismus. I agree it is the most likely problem.

Add to that the fear in her eyes and that she has now run back to mother a couple of times is making it more difficult. The fear is scary.

I am taking a back seat and not forcing sex. She tells me she wants sex then freezes when we try. For that reason I have stopped trying.

She had her baby naturally as far as I know. I do not know if she was stitched. H*ll I know little about having babies or why sticth the woman. I have a child. Was born a long time ago and that is my sum total experience of having babies.

I try to be loving. I do love her. I care. I'm unsure if that is enough. Patience can last only so long too. The frustrations of being in love and caring and being told your wife wants sex then not able to are hard to live with. Not as if I can talk to her on sex.

She must have had sex with her husband to have a baby. I can not ask if the sex was ok or not ok. Talk of her husband is off limits.

Yes. Time to be patient and understanding and wait to talk to her of Gyn Obs. Have to wait for her to need to talk first. I do know it isn't good for the brain and thopught processes do not work very good when under pressure. Tonight she is back from mothers we'll see what goes on this evening. She wants to talk so will I. Delicately.

[Spycatcher]

Maybe try alternatives like anal sex.....lol! (just kidding na!)

[geriatrickid]

It would seem to me that several respondents have identified a likely scenario;

- existing internal condition which causes pain during intercourse

- result is that the femal develops a defensive reflex to the pain

- strong likelihood that there is overly tight stiching (alot of doctors will tighten the jig, but they ask the patient first) or scar tissue.

You won't know until someone goes in for a good look and that someone better have experience with similar situations. The sooner the better. For all you know she could have a growth in there.

[torrenova]

I had a girlfriend when I was about 20 who froze when we first attempted sex. After a while I found out that the reason was her stepfather's rape / virtual rape of her mother. The situation was not helped by her real father committing suicide, then her stepfather doing it the same way in the same car and then her mother drinking herself to death. She had attempted sex once with a previous boyfriend but after a while we enjoyed a good sex life.

Personally I don't think I would have gone so far as the OP in this relationship. There is a lack of trust and these barriers she puts in the way which are now cemented by the family are major obstacles which I fear cannot be overcome. The issue of her daughter not being allowed to stay raises alarm bells about rape or paedophilia. The issue over the ex husband and the unwillingness to talk about it is going to have to change because it will forever be a problem for both of them.

There may be physical problems but this "no sex in the daytime" palava is indicative of psychological issues. Vaginismus is also psychological.

As for a solution, I fear there is none within normal reason. If the problems cannot be investigated and overcome then what chance is there ? It is not going to fix itself for sure. For sure the OP loves her but if she and her family cannot see that then he had better just plan an exit strategy or be prepared to live the life of a monk.

[Sheryl]

I think you're being unduly pessimistic. With enough love and patience on the part of the OP -- which he seems to posess -- there is every possibility thios will come a happy ending.

I don't see where the family is cementing problems..they are just doing what any good Thai family would, letting their daughter come and stay with them when she's upset and feels the need to get away.

And from what I read, they are able to have mutually satisfying sex, just not intercourse. So he does not have to endure complete celibacy while this is playing itself out.

The "no sex in the daytime" bit, while it may seem to a westerner to be pathological, is very typical of conservative Thais. The unwillingness to directly discuss sex and the issues with her first husband are also very typical of the way emotional problems are dealt with in Thai culture. It does not have the same connotation that it might in westerners. Thais have their own ways of communicating about distressing events and topics. It is quite different from our way, but most of the time works OK for them.

Any sense of pressure to "get over it"and be able to have intercourse will just introduce an element of perfromance anxiety for her which will just compound the problem many fold. She knows that her husband desires intercourse and that as a wife, it's expected of her, and most likely already feels inadequate about being unable to come through. The best approach is for the OP to act as if he doesn't mind waiting, stressing how much he loves her and that he'll wait as long as need be. Even though this is not exactly the case...stratregically, by removing the sense of pressurem, it's the best tact to take. Relieve physical frustration via practices other than intercourse and assure her that this is fine for now.

Above all, show your love and work on the emotional bond. Trust is the key and trust takes time to build.

[clausewitz]

Sheryl

Good kind advice. But go back a few years and the wife's behaviour would have been grounds, and probably cause, for annulment of marriage. I guess it depends how much comprimising one is prepared to accept.

[Shotime]

The OP sounds like he really loves this girl. Is sex that important? Stick with the oral sex for awhile, get her some real help, and maybe she will, eventually, conquer her demons. That is if she loves you as much as you seem to love her. You knew about this problem when you married her, right? Did you think it would just go away when you married her?

[sibeymai]

Is there proof that she has had a baby (been pregnant and delivered birth) ?

If not, could she be a post-op ladyboy ? (just trying to consider all possibilities)

[FBN]

Is there proof that she has had a baby (been pregnant and delivered birth) ?

If not, could she be a post-op ladyboy ? (just trying to consider all possibilities)

This is what is called "lateral thinking"; only in LOS !!!

Apologies, did not try to make light of this but....

[centric]

The lady and I are no longer together. This problem is vaginismus from what I can understand. She is not seeing a doctor or getting any help with the problem. She is still ignorant of what is wrong with her and of why she has such great pain. For her any talk of the subject is so dirty she shuts down . She will do anything to avoid confronting the issue or to listen to reason even to the extent of running off to her mothers and sleeping there for days on end. She will lie and deceive. Diversions were put in place to stop any closeness any intimacy. It reached the point where she would stomp off if the subject was broached in any way. Often if she looked at me and thought I was going to try and talk to her. You cannot help a person who does not or will not let you help them.

That left me with no choice other than to walk away from it all.

I can bet her mother knows nothing of the problem. The family believed we would be happily married and have babies. The parents lay on our bed on the wedding day and hugged as part of a ritual for a long happy and fulfilled marriage. All the time the ex wife knew she could not or would not have sexual intercourse on that bed. Though it was achieved that one time with great difficulty.

Her actions. Her lies. Her deceptions make me think of a drug addict who will do anything for the next fix. In her case it was to avoid intimacy. Intimacy she is certain has to lead to sexual intercourse.

The possibility is there of her parents and family asking when there would be babies. Added pressure? I will never know. I do know that with each passing week the problem got worse.

I asked myself why she asked me to marry her. She tells me she loves me deeply. I think she hoped that I would not want sex. That I am too old for sex. Her parents show no intimacy. The ex told me that. Her mother is 54. Father 60. I can only surmise my ex looked at her father who looks old for his years and believes older men do not have sex. That way my ex could love me. Have a sexless marriage. No sex = no pain. No pain = happy marriage.

How did this happen? The vaginismus, I mean. I will never know. I now understand any serious trauma can trigger it.

If the mods want to edit this bit I will let them decide. Some of it may be deemed unsavoury though I am trying to phrase it in a way not to be.

Much of this is before I knew what was wrong with her.

Too many times as I see and understand now the diversions were there. There well before the marriage. At times of closeness she would find something to do to avoid it. It could be answering her phone that I did not hear ringing and walk away as she talked into it. Going to the toilet too often. Start an argument. Off to clean something that did not need cleaning. Never coming back to that point of intimacy. Deciding we would go to the pub.

On her period. A period that lasted 4 days a time before the marriage now became a 7 day period. She would talk of bleeding heavily on day 4 or 5. Make sure she wore a pad each day.

She would ask if I wanted sex when her period finished. At first I said yes. Slowly I began to see those were the nights she would have some reason for sleeping at her mothers.

Waking on a morning I would have an erection. An erection that pushed up against her in bed. She knew this and dashed off to the shower or the toilet or to the kitchen. Coming back she would be dressed.

On the odd time I managed to initiate foreplay I knew she was horny herself for obvious reasons I will not detail.

Oral sex. None from her. Yet I was able to reach that intimate point of performing oral sex on her. Yet when I looked up at her I could see the fear in her face. The fear I now know was because she expecteed me to want penetrative sex next. During oral sex if I probed her with my tongue she would flinch. Initially I took that as a pleasure sign. More of a bodily reaction of pleasure than of pain. I understood different the day I performed oral for longer than usual. Probing more. She was writhing. Not with pleasure but to try and move away. She leapt out of bed and dashed to the toilet where she was physically sick. Now I understand even the tip of my tongue caused pain. For her to have had intercourse with me that one time must have been a very brave act for her on our wedding night.

Now I understand all her actions and reactions and deceptions and now what I know to be lies.

The point of the post? I am not sure. Maybe it will help someone.

For those who think she may have married for some other reason. She did not marry for money. Asked for no dowry. Never asked for money or for things for herself for the baby or her parents. Future security? Possibly.

I do care for and love her and for any who might ask why I have not sought help through a third party or talked to her parents. I will answer. The subject of sex is so tabboo in her family that the shame for her is extreme. She made me promise not to talk to anyone about this. I agreed. Maybe that is wrong. I do not know. I am in anguish myself knowing she might never have this problem resolved. Realising help is there for her makes that worse.

There are some very good sites on the internet about the problem and some sensible people here who have understanding. Yet they are of no help to my ex for the reason she needs to be willing to listen in the first place. Or to have access to a web site in Thai that she could sit and read in solitude and gain some understanding. This applies to any woman who has this problem and cannot or will not accept it is a problem that can be fixed.

For me that is the end of the matter. We do not talk or see each other nor do I think we will in the future. If the topic has helped someone. Fine. I am now more aware and knowledgeable. In the future I have a good idea of the signs to look out for.

Take care and be aware.

[huggybear]

The lady and I are no longer together. This problem is vaginismus from what I can understand. She is not seeing a doctor or getting any help with the problem. She is still ignorant of what is wrong with her and of why she has such great pain. For her any talk of the subject is so dirty she shuts down .

Take care and be aware.

This is probably a good argument for dating and premarital sex. Would have been helpful to find this all out before getting married, yes?

Best of luck and thank buddha, that in the LOS we are not hurting for quantities of women.

[centric]

The lady and I are no longer together. This problem is vaginismus from what I can understand. She is not seeing a doctor or getting any help with the problem. She is still ignorant of what is wrong with her and of why she has such great pain. For her any talk of the subject is so dirty she shuts down .

Take care and be aware.

This is probably a good argument for dating and premarital sex. Would have been helpful to find this all out before getting married, yes?

Best of luck and thank buddha, that in the LOS we are not hurting for quantities of women.

too right it is. cannot agree with you more

[centric]

apologies for double post

Edited June 13, 2008 by centric

[centric]

I think you're being unduly pessimistic. With enough love and patience on the part of the OP -- which he seems to posess -- there is every possibility thios will come a happy ending.

I don't see where the family is cementing problems..they are just doing what any good Thai family would, letting their daughter come and stay with them when she's upset and feels the need to get away.

And from what I read, they are able to have mutually satisfying sex, just not intercourse. So he does not have to endure complete celibacy while this is playing itself out.

The "no sex in the daytime" bit, while it may seem to a westerner to be pathological, is very typical of conservative Thais. The unwillingness to directly discuss sex and the issues with her first husband are also very typical of the way emotional problems are dealt with in Thai culture. It does not have the same connotation that it might in westerners. Thais have their own ways of communicating about distressing events and topics. It is quite different from our way, but mo