Expats Leaving Pattaya?

[basjke]

If someone knows a country with a similar climate,reasonable quality of life and affordable feel free to inform me.

And that is one of the classic questions that has been raised here time and time again.

(note: this isn't a poke at basjke)

So I guess I'll keep on waiting for someone to tell me where that magical place is, that has great weather year round, great food, great people, great prices, pretty good infrastructure/hospitals/education/political systems, virtually no crime, no discrimination, no corruption, that loves expats and goes out of it's way to make them feel welcome, lets them buy land/houses, stay forever with no visa hassles, is overly forgiving to those that do break the law, and pretty much does anything else it can to please the all mighty farang expat.

Yep, sounds like a great place. Now where is that reality altering/dimension hopping device I invented ? Ah right, there it is, in my dreams like a lot of other fantasies !

I think you dreaming about pattaya a bit too much kerryd.To sum up.

Pattaya doesn't have that great weather year round.On average between may and november 15 days of rain a month.( statistic proven over the last 30 years)

Great food?Thai food could be great if they didn't mess it up each and every dish with their chilly's and peppers and pick until there is no taste left and the sweat drops appearing on your forehead while eating.

Great people?Haven't seen them in pattaya for years and upcountry they are also very rare these days.

Great prices?Read that current thread in general topics about price comparison and you will find out that thailand isn't that cheap anymore.A night out(Drinks) is more expensive then in the western world.Burgerking or pizzahut are same price as in europe.

pretty good political system?You talking about thailand aren't you.How many coups were ther in the last 30 years?

Virtually no crime?90% of the news in pattya is crime related.

No discrimination?lol

Stay forever with no visa hassles and do everything for the allmighty farang expat?there is a difference between foreigner friendly and making it every year more difficult for foreigners to stay(and spend their money) in a country.

You see it doesn't have to be that magical to be a big improvement to pattaya

[thaiman]

Living in a third world country who thinks its a first world country.

!

As for you saying that it is here living in a third world country that thinks it's a first world country I will always remember the words a US navy told me in my early days here.

You can't blame people for being stupid because they didn't have education.People who are stupid but who think they are the smartest are dangerous people.

This has got to be one of the biggest annoyances about thai people and their country. Far from first world, yet they think they belong in first world club.

probably stems from their history of never being colonized.

[boiledegg]

No disrespect intended to those who dont like Pattaya or Thailand as much as they once did and see more of the negative and less of the positive.

But wasnt one of the reasons you left Farangland in the first place because you could no longer live with the negative things there i.e. unfriendly people, expensive, crap weather, worse food, taxed too much, crime out of control, mass immigration etc etc.....

Could it just be youre one of them people who sees the negative in things and will no matter where you live, not that its a bad thing if you do, just the way different people are made.

[suiging]

If someone knows a country with a similar climate,reasonable quality of life and affordable feel free to inform me.

And that is one of the classic questions that has been raised here time and time again.

(note: this isn't a poke at basjke)

So I guess I'll keep on waiting for someone to tell me where that magical place is, that has great weather year round, great food, great people, great prices, pretty good infrastructure/hospitals/education/political systems, virtually no crime, no discrimination, no corruption, that loves expats and goes out of it's way to make them feel welcome, lets them buy land/houses, stay forever with no visa hassles, is overly forgiving to those that do break the law, and pretty much does anything else it can to please the all mighty farang expat.

Yep, sounds like a great place. Now where is that reality altering/dimension hopping device I invented ? Ah right, there it is, in my dreams like a lot of other fantasies !

I think you dreaming about pattaya a bit too much kerryd.To sum up.

Pattaya doesn't have that great weather year round.On average between may and november 15 days of rain a month.( statistic proven over the last 30 years)

Great food?Thai food could be great if they didn't mess it up each and every dish with their chilly's and peppers and pick until there is no taste left and the sweat drops appearing on your forehead while eating.

Great people?Haven't seen them in pattaya for years and upcountry they are also very rare these days.

Great prices?Read that current thread in general topics about price comparison and you will find out that thailand isn't that cheap anymore.A night out(Drinks) is more expensive then in the western world.Burgerking or pizzahut are same price as in europe.

pretty good political system?You talking about thailand aren't you.How many coups were ther in the last 30 years?

Virtually no crime?90% of the news in pattya is crime related.

No discrimination?lol

Stay forever with no visa hassles and do everything for the allmighty farang expat?there is a difference between foreigner friendly and making it every year more difficult for foreigners to stay(and spend their money) in a country.

You see it doesn't have to be that magical to be a big improvement to pattaya

Not slinging mud honest, but genuinely interested in your 15 days a month rain stats. Totally agree the general forecast for the Eastern Sea-Board may well be that high, but on top of yon hill over on the dark side, it really does not rain anything like that.

[jimbbc]

I agree with wcr, it's the thai attitude that's driving me out, only I'm not leaving completely because I already own a condo, so I've decided to travel and spend my money elsewhere just like immigration must want me to. Al the changable visa rules tells me they want me to only spend a few months at a time her, so I guess other countries will get the bulk of my money.

These folks can't figure out that a foreigner brings in a lot of cash with very little cost to the country, basic economics.

Lots of great countries out there, do a little exploring and enjoy yourself.

[NanLaew]

Pattaya doesn't have that great weather year round.On average between may and november 15 days of rain a month.( statistic proven over the last 30 years)

Yes, it's because it's located in the tropics and influenced by monsoon seasons. But no snow so far in Naklua! You could move somewhere else and have typhoons or hurricanes like Puerto Rico?

Great food? Thai food could be great if they didn't mess it up each and every dish with their chilly's and peppers and pick until there is no taste left and the sweat drops appearing on your forehead while eating.

That's why it's called Thai cuisine. Maybe you need some down-home Puerto Rican style Thai?

Great people? Haven't seen them in pattaya for years and upcountry they are also very rare these days.

Well I won't take it personally but I reckon I am pretty great and my wife too. Her family and friends from up north are pretty decent too. I have a circle of great friends that I enjoy socialising with here. Some nice folks over in Puerto Rico too.

Great prices? Read that current thread in general topics about price comparison and you will find out that thailand isn't that cheap anymore. A night out (Drinks) is more expensive then in the western world.

Well that's a global trend; prices are up everywhere, including Puerto Rico. And where and what are you drinking in Pattaya that's so expensive?

Burgerking or pizzahut are same price as in europe.

That qualifies your earlier opinion on Thai food... but if you eat crap otherwise? BTW, Puerto Rico has McDonalds & Starbucks too.

pretty good political system?You talking about thailand aren't you.How many coups were ther in the last 30 years?

Why do the local politics concern you? You aren't a resident with voting rights after all. I assume that Thailand was 'coup central' when you first decided that this was paradise and it didn't sway your choice back then did it? Puerto Rico is so stable, it makes me sleepy.

Virtually no crime?90% of the news in pattya is crime related.

Correction. Virtually all the news published in the foreign language media outlets is crime related. There's a lot more going on that's NOT crime related, you just need to broaden your sources. That does not mean use another search engine either. Google Puerto Rico for example.

No discrimination?lol

Yes, our hosts do appear to be a xenophobic bunch but no more and no less than I read about (for example) the US paranoia about hispanics (except in Puerto Rico because it's hispanic anyway) or the UK's burgeoning obsession with Eastern Europeans.

Stay forever with no visa hassles and do everything for the allmighty farang expat?there is a difference between foreigner friendly and making it every year more difficult for foreigners to stay(and spend their money) in a country.

Methinks you would have been better suited to live 100 or 150 years ago when colonial empires were all the rage.

To be realistic, what you are looking for is all in Puerto Rico (I don't think they were ever colonised either). I think what you need to do is get out more and not just around Pattaya. I mean overseas a bit and see what's on offer out there. I consider that the Thai government are really concerned about FDS or Farang Disillusionment Syndrome (that you are exhibiting all the classic symptoms of) and it's effect on foreign investment. That's why they have these onerous new visa regulations that require you bugger off for a minimum of 90-days if you have been here for up to 120-days so you shake off the cabin fever and have a reality check. Then you come back all eager and willing, sign another years lease or put a down-payment on another condo and, just maybe, get a new woman too.

[Kerryd]

You see it doesn't have to be that magical to be a big improvement to pattaya

Ahh, so the question remains unanswered.

I did mention that yes, Pattaya (and Thailand) do have problems, but I guess it's a matter of perspective and personal experience. I find the weather much nicer than back in Canada (with the snow and ice, and when it rains, it can rain for days, non-stop, and even in the summer it usually is a cold rain where I used to live).

I like the food, but not as spicy as some of my friends do. I've tried some of the local dishes without chilies (mai phet), and was disappointed at the outcome. There are some great people around. I spend most of my time with my Thai friends and never have a problem.

Politics ? Yeah, it's not the USA, with it's nearly year long campaign just to see who is going to square off against whom. The last coup, and transition back to a "democratically" elected government seemed to go pretty smoothly though. Hardly any fluctuations in the value of the baht, and very little effect on normal day-to-day activities of most people.

As for the crime in the news, well, we've gone over that probably a dozen or more times since I joined TV. Good news and nice stories don't sell, or generate very much interest. Bad news does. We even experimented here (on TV) by posting "good news" articles, which barely got noticed and quickly dropped off the chart while "bad news" stories got all the attention.

If all you see and read is bad, it gives you a distorted perception. Imagine if the local newspapers/TV stations and the News Clipping forum only had articles about "good news". Your perception would be that it's all sunshine and roses in Pattaya. Unfortunately it's the other way around and all we see are the bad news articles.

If the reporting were better balanced, I'm sure you would realise that it isn't as bad as it seems.

So where do you think a better place may be ?

(got to run, time to start the day !)

[suiging]

For as long as there is a Pattaya Forum, there will be the " bashers" and the proud members of the " Pattaya Defence League ". Each to their own, all arguments have their bases in some form of truth, however, it is always quite noticeable that the "bashers" are not usually from the area, or have visited the core of the city once or twice and found it not to their liking.

Couldn't give a monkeys, or indeed get offended by people's perceptions based on ignorance and limited experience; however the "everyone who likes it is a pervert crowd " are a tad trying. Pattaya is not just Soi Six or Walking Street and those who think it is, should really come down, meet some of the actual people who are proud to call it their home, before they spout the usual old hogwash.

[Naam]

To be realistic, what you are looking for is all in Puerto Rico (I don't think they were ever colonised either)

except for several centuries colonisation by Spain and more than a century by The Greatest Nation on Earth™

[Naam]

they spout the usual old hogwash.

seconded!

[wcr]

For as long as there is a Pattaya Forum, there will be the " bashers" and the proud members of the " Pattaya Defence League ". Each to their own, all arguments have their bases in some form of truth, however, it is always quite noticeable that the "bashers" are not usually from the area, or have visited the core of the city once or twice and found it not to their liking.

Couldn't give a monkeys, or indeed get offended by people's perceptions based on ignorance and limited experience; however the "everyone who likes it is a pervert crowd " are a tad trying. Pattaya is not just Soi Six or Walking Street and those who think it is, should really come down, meet some of the actual people who are proud to call it their home, before they spout the usual old hogwash.

Urmm, not in my case. I have been here in Pattaya 5.5 years and been fully involved with the community in various ways, including 3.5 years in a local Rotary Club. Haven't been to WS for at least one year, and only ever walked down soi 6 once.

[pattayaheaven]

Pattaya pattaya pattaya.

great song,great place,get out of the shed bars and visit the more upmarket bars and you will see that they are very busy.

[NanLaew]

To be realistic, what you are looking for is all in Puerto Rico (I don't think they were ever colonised either)

except for several centuries colonisation by Spain and more than a century by The Greatest Nation on Earth™

But you try and get any Boriquan to admit as much.... "It's my country! It's my country!"

Shadup! It's a US territory dammit!!!

[Kerryd]

To be realistic, what you are looking for is all in Puerto Rico (I don't think they were ever colonised either)

except for several centuries colonisation by Spain and more than a century by The Greatest Nation on Earth™

But you try and get any Boriquan to admit as much.... "It's my country! It's my country!"

Shadup! It's a US territory dammit!!!

Puerto Rico, the 50.5th state ! American in all but name (they even participate in the presidential primaries). Probably the poorest of the 50 1/2 states. Probably would have been a state by now, but the flag just doesn't look right with 51 stars (think of the cost involved to change all those American Flags and flag decals, and pins and everything else that has the flag emblem, just to add Puerto Rico ?).

Somehow, I don't think it would compare all that nicely with Pattaya/Thailand. Any place in the Caribbean is either too expensive, or too poor (maybe Cuba, but again, communist government, plenty of impoverished locals, and a gazillion former "residents", their descendants and wannabees just 90 miles away, itching and waiting for the opportunity to flood back in there and claim what was supposedly theirs 60+ years ago. Not exactly a stable environment for retirement.

But I bet it would be a great place for all those that don't like Pattaya to go to !

[suiging]

For as long as there is a Pattaya Forum, there will be the " bashers" and the proud members of the " Pattaya Defence League ". Each to their own, all arguments have their bases in some form of truth, however, it is always quite noticeable that the "bashers" are not usually from the area, or have visited the core of the city once or twice and found it not to their liking.

Couldn't give a monkeys, or indeed get offended by people's perceptions based on ignorance and limited experience; however the "everyone who likes it is a pervert crowd " are a tad trying. Pattaya is not just Soi Six or Walking Street and those who think it is, should really come down, meet some of the actual people who are proud to call it their home, before they spout the usual old hogwash.

Urmm, not in my case. I have been here in Pattaya 5.5 years and been fully involved with the community in various ways, including 3.5 years in a local Rotary Club. Haven't been to WS for at least one year, and only ever walked down soi 6 once.

hence the phrase " Usually "

[Naam]

Puerto Rico, the 50.5th state ! American in all but name (they even participate in the presidential primaries). Probably the poorest of the 50 1/2 states. Probably would have been a state by now, but the flag just doesn't look right with 51 stars (think of the cost involved to change all those American Flags and flag decals, and pins and everything else that has the flag emblem, just to add Puerto Rico ?).

that's not the reason. Puerto Ricans vote once in a while on U.S. statehood. the majority doesn't want it for tax reasons.

[Naam]

Urmm, not in my case. I have been here in Pattaya 5.5 years and been fully involved with the community in various ways, including 3.5 years in a local Rotary Club. Haven't been to WS for at least one year, and only ever walked down soi 6 once.

hallelujah... AMEN

[boiledegg]

Pattaya is not just Soi Six or Walking Street and those who think it is, should really come down, meet some of the actual people who are proud to call it their home, before they spout the usual old hogwash.

When in Pattaya i dont go to Soi 6 (too seedy) or Walking Street (drinks cost too much) but i would give my first born for a night out in either of those places when im back in England, maybe people dont know when theyre onto a good thing

[basjke]

Pattaya is not just Soi Six or Walking Street and those who think it is, should really come down, meet some of the actual people who are proud to call it their home, before they spout the usual old hogwash.

When in Pattaya i dont go to Soi 6 (too seedy) or Walking Street (drinks cost too much) but i would give my first born for a night out in either of those places when im back in England, maybe people dont know when theyre onto a good thing

So that's the priority reason that you stay in thailand?

[Kerryd]

Puerto Rico, the 50.5th state ! American in all but name (they even participate in the presidential primaries). Probably the poorest of the 50 1/2 states. Probably would have been a state by now, but the flag just doesn't look right with 51 stars (think of the cost involved to change all those American Flags and flag decals, and pins and everything else that has the flag emblem, just to add Puerto Rico ?).

that's not the reason. Puerto Ricans vote once in a while on U.S. statehood. the majority doesn't want it for tax reasons.

Guess I should have added a smiley to the end of that paragraph.

(I didn't really think that it was the cost of the flags/pins/decals that would have to be changed, that was keeping Puerto Rico from becoming the 51st state !)

And as for Pattaya, oddly enough, in all the time I've been in Pattaya (on holiday and living there), I've been down soi 6 exactly once, and that was only because my buddy took that route to get back to Beach Road (we were in his SUV, and it was about 2 in the afternoon). I strained my eyes as we zipped down the soi (he's Thai, so we were zipping somewhat faster than I would have, had I been driving), wasn't able to spot the library though. Must have blinked as we passed it.

[basjke]

Pattaya doesn't have that great weather year round.On average between may and november 15 days of rain a month.( statistic proven over the last 30 years)

Yes, it's because it's located in the tropics and influenced by monsoon seasons. But no snow so far in Naklua! You could move somewhere else and have typhoons or hurricanes like Puerto Rico?

Great food? Thai food could be great if they didn't mess it up each and every dish with their chilly's and peppers and pick until there is no taste left and the sweat drops appearing on your forehead while eating.

That's why it's called Thai cuisine. Maybe you need some down-home Puerto Rican style Thai?

Great people? Haven't seen them in pattaya for years and upcountry they are also very rare these days.

Well I won't take it personally but I reckon I am pretty great and my wife too. Her family and friends from up north are pretty decent too. I have a circle of great friends that I enjoy socialising with here. Some nice folks over in Puerto Rico too.

Great prices? Read that current thread in general topics about price comparison and you will find out that thailand isn't that cheap anymore. A night out (Drinks) is more expensive then in the western world.

Well that's a global trend; prices are up everywhere, including Puerto Rico. And where and what are you drinking in Pattaya that's so expensive?

Burgerking or pizzahut are same price as in europe.

That qualifies your earlier opinion on Thai food... but if you eat crap otherwise? BTW, Puerto Rico has McDonalds & Starbucks too.

pretty good political system?You talking about thailand aren't you.How many coups were ther in the last 30 years?

Why do the local politics concern you? You aren't a resident with voting rights after all. I assume that Thailand was 'coup central' when you first decided that this was paradise and it didn't sway your choice back then did it? Puerto Rico is so stable, it makes me sleepy.

Virtually no crime?90% of the news in pattya is crime related.

Correction. Virtually all the news published in the foreign language media outlets is crime related. There's a lot more going on that's NOT crime related, you just need to broaden your sources. That does not mean use another search engine either. Google Puerto Rico for example.

No discrimination?lol

Yes, our hosts do appear to be a xenophobic bunch but no more and no less than I read about (for example) the US paranoia about hispanics (except in Puerto Rico because it's hispanic anyway) or the UK's burgeoning obsession with Eastern Europeans.

Stay forever with no visa hassles and do everything for the allmighty farang expat?there is a difference between foreigner friendly and making it every year more difficult for foreigners to stay(and spend their money) in a country.

Methinks you would have been better suited to live 100 or 150 years ago when colonial empires were all the rage.

To be realistic, what you are looking for is all in Puerto Rico (I don't think they were ever colonised either). I think what you need to do is get out more and not just around Pattaya. I mean overseas a bit and see what's on offer out there. I consider that the Thai government are really concerned about FDS or Farang Disillusionment Syndrome (that you are exhibiting all the classic symptoms of) and it's effect on foreign investment. That's why they have these onerous new visa regulations that require you bugger off for a minimum of 90-days if you have been here for up to 120-days so you shake off the cabin fever and have a reality check. Then you come back all eager and willing, sign another years lease or put a down-payment on another condo and, just maybe, get a new woman too.

Can you explain why you mention puerto rico all over your post.I never talked about it or is this the only country you are aware of.

[basjke]

If someone knows a country with a similar climate,reasonable quality of life and affordable feel free to inform me.

And that is one of the classic questions that has been raised here time and time again.

(note: this isn't a poke at basjke)

So I guess I'll keep on waiting for someone to tell me where that magical place is, that has great weather year round, great food, great people, great prices, pretty good infrastructure/hospitals/education/political systems, virtually no crime, no discrimination, no corruption, that loves expats and goes out of it's way to make them feel welcome, lets them buy land/houses, stay forever with no visa hassles, is overly forgiving to those that do break the law, and pretty much does anything else it can to please the all mighty farang expat.

Yep, sounds like a great place. Now where is that reality altering/dimension hopping device I invented ? Ah right, there it is, in my dreams like a lot of other fantasies !

I think you dreaming about pattaya a bit too much kerryd.To sum up.

Pattaya doesn't have that great weather year round.On average between may and november 15 days of rain a month.( statistic proven over the last 30 years)

Great food?Thai food could be great if they didn't mess it up each and every dish with their chilly's and peppers and pick until there is no taste left and the sweat drops appearing on your forehead while eating.

Great people?Haven't seen them in pattaya for years and upcountry they are also very rare these days.

Great prices?Read that current thread in general topics about price comparison and you will find out that thailand isn't that cheap anymore.A night out(Drinks) is more expensive then in the western world.Burgerking or pizzahut are same price as in europe.

pretty good political system?You talking about thailand aren't you.How many coups were ther in the last 30 years?

Virtually no crime?90% of the news in pattya is crime related.

No discrimination?lol

Stay forever with no visa hassles and do everything for the allmighty farang expat?there is a difference between foreigner friendly and making it every year more difficult for foreigners to stay(and spend their money) in a country.

You see it doesn't have to be that magical to be a big improvement to pattaya

Not slinging mud honest, but genuinely interested in your 15 days a month rain stats. Totally agree the general forecast for the Eastern Sea-Board may well be that high, but on top of yon hill over on the dark side, it really does not rain anything like that.

The stats are free available for every one on the internet.Do a google for thai meteorological department.You can have them for almost every city and a pretty good weather forecast also.

[NanLaew]

If someone knows a country with a similar climate,reasonable quality of life and affordable feel free to inform me.

Can you explain why you mention puerto rico all over your post.I never talked about it or is this the only country you are aware of.

Well basjke, you asked only yesterday didn't you?

[NanLaew]

maybe Cuba, but again, communist government, plenty of impoverished locals, and a gazillion former "residents", their descendants and wannabees just 90 miles away, itching and waiting for the opportunity to flood back in there and claim what was supposedly theirs 60+ years ago. Not exactly a stable environment for retirement.

But I bet it would be a great place for all those that don't like Pattaya to go to !

You are writing off communist or socialist countries since you dismissed Vietnam in an earlier post for the same reasons. There's also awesome Moçambique, that embraced Marxism and arguably has some of the most pristine and idyllic beaches and resorts in Africa. Angola has a similar past and future potential (but since they are already China's major foreign oil supplier, maybe that is less of a cherry). Namibia has a fledgling eco-tourism industry but is a step or two further behind.

I have worked in all four and if Puerto Rico doesn't have the cache (pay attention basjke), I would say go for the places that have socialist past, present or future. The east-end of Cuba, beyond Varadero is an undiscovered paradise. Some of the beaches in north Vietnam north of Haiphong remind me of Patong in 1977. Inhambane province overlooks the Indian Ocean in the south of Moçambique and is probably the best. Travel outside of Walvis Bay in Namibia and there's some secluded beaches (it's the least densely populated country in the world apparently). The Portuguese villas overlooking the bluffs in northern Angola looked like a peaceful retreat but some needed fixing up.

There are vacancies!

[BugJackBaron]

maybe Cuba, but again, communist government, plenty of impoverished locals, and a gazillion former "residents", their descendants and wannabees just 90 miles away, itching and waiting for the opportunity to flood back in there and claim what was supposedly theirs 60+ years ago. Not exactly a stable environment for retirement.

But I bet it would be a great place for all those that don't like Pattaya to go to !

You are writing off communist or socialist countries since you dismissed Vietnam in an earlier post for the same reasons. There's also awesome Moçambique, that embraced Marxism and arguably has some of the most pristine and idyllic beaches and resorts in Africa. Angola has a similar past and future potential (but since they are already China's major foreign oil supplier, maybe that is less of a cherry). Namibia has a fledgling eco-tourism industry but is a step or two further behind.

I have worked in all four and if Puerto Rico doesn't have the cache (pay attention basjke), I would say go for the places that have socialist past, present or future. The east-end of Cuba, beyond Varadero is an undiscovered paradise. Some of the beaches in north Vietnam north of Haiphong remind me of Patong in 1977. Inhambane province overlooks the Indian Ocean in the south of Moçambique and is probably the best. Travel outside of Walvis Bay in Namibia and there's some secluded beaches (it's the least densely populated country in the world apparently). The Portuguese villas overlooking the bluffs in northern Angola looked like a peaceful retreat but some needed fixing up.

There are vacancies!

No beaches (??!) but I just took my first trip to Laos. Best western food for money in Asia. Prices good on MOST

things(motorbikes at 300B/day though!) Vientienne traffic was sane. There are even girls there though it is more descreet than Pattaya. So yes, "commie" countries have their points. Rampant capatilism results in too many greedy people jumping on the bandwagon. I'm told Kazastan is great too.

[suiging]

Oh to be young...............

Former Soviet Rebublics and other less developed parts of the world great til you need the doctor, there are many bad words said about BPH and such like, but dam_n handy all the same when you need them.

[NanLaew]

Oh to be young...............

Former Soviet Rebublics and other less developed parts of the world great til you need the doctor, there are many bad words said about BPH and such like, but dam_n handy all the same when you need them.

A very good point but if healthcare is an issue, most socialist countries have free public healthcare and top of the list is Cuba. I sustained a serious leg injury while working there, way out in the boonies and was sorted AND received home physiotherapy until they decided I was 100%. Never a penny spent. My girlfriends grandma received 2 visits each week from the local doctor as part of a policy of caring for the elderly. When was the last time your MD did an outcall in your respective homelands? Cuba supplies an amazing amount of well qualified doctors to latin America despite the ravages of the US embargo.

[DisainaM]

the change of the oil price, every year 30 % increase, this year, we will hit the 200 $ mark,

will lead to a new type of holiday, people will spend the time in thailand, to avoid the winter period, just on the energy prices.

[basjke]

the change of the oil price, every year 30 % increase, this year, we will hit the 200 $ mark,

will lead to a new type of holiday, people will spend the time in thailand, to avoid the winter period, just on the energy prices.

That will be if they still are able to pay for a ticket with oil at 200$

[Kerryd]

You are writing off communist or socialist countries since you dismissed Vietnam in an earlier post for the same reasons. There's also awesome Moçambique, that embraced Marxism and arguably has some of the most pristine and idyllic beaches and resorts in Africa. Angola has a similar past and future potential (but since they are already China's major foreign oil supplier, maybe that is less of a cherry). Namibia has a fledgling eco-tourism industry but is a step or two further behind.

Yeah, I'm not a bif fan of communist/socialist countries.

Angola ? Well, here is just 1 reason why I doubt it would be a good alternative to Pattaya:

"Estimates of the number of Angolan land mines range between 10 and 20 million

which equates to at least 1 to 2 land mines for every person in the country.

U.N. estimates put the number of Angolan amputees resulting from the silent killers at 70,000.

For three decades mines were scattered in Angola's fields, villages, roads, and other

unexpected places to intimidate, maim and kill innocent victims."

(note: The demining organization HALO has thus far destroyed approx 30,000 of those mines since 1994, but expects to be finished demining there in 3-6 more years).

And I highly doubt Angola has few, if any features that are better than Pattaya (medical/educational/transport ect). A couple nice beaches won't make up for deficiencies in every other aspect. Little things like this:

"Human Rights Watch estimates UNITA and the government employed more than 6,000 and 3,000 child soldiers respectively, some forcibly impressed, during the war. Human rights analysts found 5,000 to 8,000 underage girls married to UNITA militants. Some girls were ordered to go and forage for food to provide for the troops. If the girls did not bring back enough food as judged by their commander, then the girls would not eat. After victories, UNITA commanders would be rewarded with women who were often then sexually abused. The government and U.N. agencies identified 190 child soldiers in the Angolan army and relocated seventy of them by November 2002, but the government continued to knowingly employ other underage soldiers."

Better than Pattaya ? Not likely.

Namibia ? Wow. Great choice. Sandwiched between South Africa in the south (going down hill fast it seems), Angola to the North (already mentioned), and Botswana to the east. Not exactly foreigner (read: white) friendly it would seem.

"Land was supposed to be redistributed mostly from the white minority to previously landless communities and ex-combatants."

"President Sam Nujoma has been vocal in his support of Zimbabwe and its president Robert Mugabe"

Meanwhile, the object was/is to find a place that is better than Pattaya. Easy to get to and from, good hospitals, schools, food, people, exchange rates, etc. And I would find it very hard to believe that the crime rates in Angola and Namibia are lower than Thailand.

Still, maybe these are GREAT places for all the Pattaya bashers to go to !