"inexperienced" Wants To Build A (very!) Little House

[scooterboy]

Hi Gang!

Any suggestions (polite ones, of course!) to help me on my way? You

guys can be extremely helpful, perhaps due to your own previous experiences or

just basic knowledge (like, maybe you're a builder, yourself).

I'm considering (only considering!) trying by myself to build a simple and cheap one-roomed house with a bathroom on a one rai plot of land, the house being no bigger than the average hotel room, really - a maximum of around 25-30 sq.m. The idea is that the house would be lived in for a year or two before (perhaps) building a larger house elsewhere on the plot - or even extending this little house to include more rooms.

The house would have 2 windows, a sliding main entrance (front) door of glass,

one bathroom door, ventilation window (or bricks) in bathroom, bathroom bum squirter, sink and shower - and it would be nice with a water heater for the shower. One outside tap, too.

The missus wants "3 steps up" to the main entrance door, which (presumably) would mean raising the general floor level (which has already got me totally foxed and freaked out!). How the <deleted>'ell do you build a house with a raised floor level on a flat piece of land?

The plot itself borders onto an asphalt road and there is electricity and local water supply out on the road.

The plot is dotted with fruit trees here and there, but there are also open areas, large

enough to build this little house without having to remove any trees. The areas around the plot have houses built on cement foundations and as far as we can ascertain, only one (enormous!) house is built on pile foundations. Too, only a couple of the already built houses have been built on filled land - the rest have been built directly onto the existing level of the land.

The area is NOT prone to any sort of flooding.

I admit to be totally inexperienced in house building, but am eager and willing to have a go, providing I have sufficient - and correct - information.

I've already spent some time looking at government websites and general info on building houses, though only seem to find facts for large, gi-normous or mega-mega sized projects.

What I'm looking for is a book or website (or your suggestions) that can explain in vivid detail about -

A - Cement Foundations (NOT pile foundations). What sized trenches are needed,

rebar sizes and details,

mixing and pouring cement and Do's and Don't-do's

B - Tank for toilet and waste pipes. How to install tank and connect to western type

toilet. Shower and sink outlets (waste pipes). We'd prefer incoming water pipes to

be installed through the outer walls and not under/through the cement floor. If the

general floor level can be a raised one, then we'd be happy if it was possible to have

waste outlets likewise installed through the outer walls - is that at all possible?

C - Building the walls, using breeze blocks (?)

D - Roof construction (preferably using ceramic tiles)

Installing and connecting the water and electricity supply would be done by others.

Too, any plans of very small houses you may know about would be most welcome.

What of any building requirements from the land-office/amphur/tesaban?

That's about it - though I don't doubt for one minute that some of you will remind me that I've "forgotten" about this that and other - please feel free to tell me. I appreciate all forms of criticism and advice.

Thanks for your time (and patience!).

[Carib]

Hi, one of the members here has got a website with government plan houses. He translated it from Thai. His name is Crossy

Well, just read it, i am sure he doesnot mind me putting up the adress. Take a look, maybe something there for you.

http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/

[Lite Beer]

To give you an idea. We got some of the village locals to knock this up.

As you say about 35 sq meters. Western toilet, shower heater, tiled, ceiling, down lights , dimmer switches. 2 windows.

The total cost was 110,000 Baht.

Materials 75,000

Labour 35,000

The most expensive items being the wood for the roof.

To raise it off the ground the locals usually make the outside walls and fill it to the required hight with soil. Concrete on top.

[Lite Beer]

[Carib]

Looks good !!

[scooterboy]

Whooo! Now THAT is a very cute little house - just what we were planning to build (more or less). Many thanks for your info - great! Is the bathroom inside or outside (maybe a covered extension)? What sort of bricks were usd for the walls?

Our (her) land is south of Lamphun , near to Chiang Mai.

We DID actually try a quote from a local - he wanted 90,000 just for labour, so we declined the offer and got a loud "khee ngeeo" answer. Hmmm....nice... but they already knew a farang was involved, so we weren't surprised.

Many thanks for your reply

To give you an idea. We got some of the village locals to knock this up.

As you say about 35 sq meters. Western toilet, shower heater, tiled, ceiling, down lights , dimmer switches. 2 windows.

The total cost was 110,000 Baht.

Materials 75,000

Labour 35,000

The most expensive items being the wood for the roof.

To raise it off the ground the locals usually make the outside walls and fill it to the required hight with soil. Concrete on top.

[scooterboy]

Hi, one of the members here has got a website with government plan houses. He translated it from Thai. His name is Crossy

Well, just read it, i am sure he doesnot mind me putting up the adress. Take a look, maybe something there for you.

http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/

Yo!

Thanks Carib - had found the link in another thread and have looked at the website. Again, mostly larger houses, though a couple on stilts, too.

Cheers

Scooterboy

[Lite Beer]

We DID actually try a quote from a local - he wanted 90,000 just for labour, so we declined the offer and got a loud "khee ngeeo" answer. Hmmm....nice... but they already knew a farang was involved, so we weren't surprised.

90,000 Well over the top. Ours was built by 3 men from the village who had nothing to do as it was between rice harvests. It took them 3 weeks from start to finish.

The bathroom is inside in one of the corners. All built from blocks.

There was another post a while back where someone build something similar and his cost was around 90,000 including materials and labour . I will try and find it.

Here it is . Post no. 25 onwards.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...167782&st=0

Edited May 31, 2008 by Lite Beer

[scooterboy]

Hi Again LiteBeer !

Sorry to bother you once more! I showed your response (with the photos) to the "dearly beloved"and she was very excited - and very impressed!

However, like most women she had a ton of unanswerable questions and I'll pass

some of them on and hope you don't mind giving us a reply.

1. How long did the house take to make, from the day the guys started working until

they left (perhaps excluding work for pipes and cables for power and water, if this was

done later) ?

2. How did you manage to connect the water/power, I mean, did you do it by yourself

or get the authorities to connect the water/power?

3. Has the bathroom got a septic tank (toilet) and the shower/sink a spill tank?

4. Foundations. Is the house "just" built onto a simple flat concrete platform, or did you have

trenches dug around the base, with rebar ? I suspect the trench with rebar, but it's not too

clear from the photo, hence my asking. If so deep/wide the trench and how thick the

concrete, I wonder?

5. How many locals (we see 3 in one photo) did you use for the main construction? And did you

use the same people for every type of job?

6. Is the 35 sq.m. the external (including roof overhangs) or internal (rooms) measurement?

7. The labour cost - was that a fixed price (a quote, maybe), or just the usual daily payment ?

8. Any pitfalls or traps along the way that I may also wish to avoid ?

Lastly, may I have your permission to use your great photos to use as a guide to our own house?

-----------------------------------

OOPS! I'd written this reply offline and I can see that you;'ve already answered some

of the questions!!

Many thanks for the new photos and link, too - I'll take a look at that one!

------------------------------------

Thanks and cheers - great stuff, LiteBeer

Scooterboy

[Lite Beer]

Don't expect anything too technical from me as I know nothing. I didn't have too much to do with it. The Wife sorted it out.

Just measured the outside walls and they are actually 4 meters wide X 6 meters long. It really is a lot bigger than it sounds.

The 3 men did everything exept the suspended ceiling, electrics and glass in the windows. But they new someone who could do it.

A trench was dug all the way round and a wire cage was put in and covered with cement.

Fot the toilet they dug a big hole and put 3 (I think) cement rings in. Pipe connecting it to the toilet. A truck comes round the village every day to empty these as most house use this method.

We already had a channel running round the edge of the garden taking water away so the shower and sink pipes run into this.

The electrician took the electric from our house, so that was not a problem.

The labour price was a quote for the job.

We have our own water supply from a deep bore. There is also the village supply but it is not very regular.

Don't forget we are talking Isaan village here. Outside of the rice season they are happy with some work as there is not a lot else.

It is really just a quest room for the Wifes mother or sister when they come. If I had to I could live in it.

The biggest problem was getting them to understand that the toilet went up against the wall and not in the middle of the bathroom.

Edited May 31, 2008 by Lite Beer

[wpcoe]

Lite Beer: What an attractive home you have! In particular, I admire the landscaping. There is good reason to keep shrubbery and other plants away from the foundation (home for vermin, roots going where they shouldn't, etc.) and in so many cases keeping flora away from the perimeter of the structure leaves it looking sterile, but your house and lot look very green and pleasing on the eye. Good job!

[Lite Beer]

Lite Beer: What an attractive home you have! In particular, I admire the landscaping. There is good reason to keep shrubbery and other plants away from the foundation (home for vermin, roots going where they shouldn't, etc.) and in so many cases keeping flora away from the perimeter of the structure leaves it looking sterile, but your house and lot look very green and pleasing on the eye. Good job!

More by luck than planning. I decided that the lawn was too big to water and cut. So the idea was to plant a load of mango trees on half of it and leave that grass to its own devices. However with all the rain we have been having lately I still have to cut it, only the trees are in the way.

So I wouldn't really call it landscaping.

[scooterboy]

Hi LiteBeer!

Just an update....

Great link (thanks) and I learned a few more things, including the (then) prices of a few things and rough amount of blocks to order.

Think I'd prefer a steel roof frame, which ought to be stronger than a wooden frame, though it's

mostly due to termite problems in our present house - those critters are almost impossible to get rid of, permanently. I'd hate to have to battle with them again, if I can avoid it.

A typo appeared in my previous question 4 - should have read "If so, HOW deep/wide...." (I'm blaming it on them termites)!

Hey! - Nice bathroom in the photos! And Thanks for the additional replies to the questions!

Yeah - don't have a lot of internet access time, hence me mainly writing offline replies to you - andthe accompanying delays in replying.

We're soon off to a builder's store to check on current prices for a few things - ought to be

interesting. I somehow doubt very much if blocks are still 4B each (from your link)!

Cheers

Scooterboy

[DCasper]

Hi LiteBeer!

Just an update....

Great link (thanks) and I learned a few more things, including the (then) prices of a few things and rough amount of blocks to order.

Think I'd prefer a steel roof frame, which ought to be stronger than a wooden frame, though it's

mostly due to termite problems in our present house - those critters are almost impossible to get rid of, permanently. I'd hate to have to battle with them again, if I can avoid it.

A typo appeared in my previous question 4 - should have read "If so, HOW deep/wide...." (I'm blaming it on them termites)!

Hey! - Nice bathroom in the photos! And Thanks for the additional replies to the questions!

Yeah - don't have a lot of internet access time, hence me mainly writing offline replies to you - andthe accompanying delays in replying.

We're soon off to a builder's store to check on current prices for a few things - ought to be

interesting. I somehow doubt very much if blocks are still 4B each (from your link)!

Cheers

Scooterboy

The Wife paid 4.5 B about 7Weeks ago in Udon Thani.

[Lite Beer]

We paid 3,510 Baht for the blocks and had some left over which we gave to the workers. 14/02/08

As I said I am not and expert but they seemed to dig down about 60 cm. Enough for a small bungalow.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Lite Beer

[scooterboy]

Hi!

4.5B for blocks? Wow! Not bad... Enquired yesterday about a few things

Blocks about 6B (the guy wasn't sure, though)

Tiger Cement 50K bag 150B, the price just having risen yesterday (01 June 2008).

Homemart (here) apparently have offers on tiles & toilets until 15th July, though I found

them still to be rather expensive (but very nice).

Worked out that just to tile & furnish the bathroom would cost approx. 14K Baht, presuming the

roof was on and the walls up. Is your water heater earthed, by the way - and how?

Trouble is, I ain't good at asking about things in stores that I don't know much about - and I get put off when walking around a large store with an assistant following me very closely all the time.

Today we're off to see about steel roof supplies and maybe another tile shop.

Cheers

Scooterboy

PS Thanks, too, for the new photos

[Naam]

The biggest problem was getting them to understand that the toilet went up against the wall and not in the middle of the bathroom.

a typical farang misplanning! how do you dance around the toilet with that kind of odd setup?

[ilyushin]

Lite Beer good job. When do I come over for a trial stay?

OP - You could always lay a floating foundation, use steel poles for columns and then use c channel to brace it along with a rather inexpensive truss system. Block or brick half walls and then use Shera cement boards for the upper half. Gyp board the inside with some EPS insulation or fiberglass rollout.

Current cost of a small 1 bedroom with WC condo/apartment conventional construction is approx. Baht 100,000, but many other factors to recalculate.

Good luck and post some more questions and also your plans. Look forward to your finished product too.

[cophen]

The biggest problem was getting them to understand that the toilet went up against the wall and not in the middle of the bathroom.

a typical farang misplanning! how do you dance around the toilet with that kind of odd setup?

Is dancing round the toilet a German custom?

[Naam]

The biggest problem was getting them to understand that the toilet went up against the wall and not in the middle of the bathroom.

a typical farang misplanning! how do you dance around the toilet with that kind of odd setup?

Is dancing round the toilet a German custom?

don't tell me you didn't know this well known fact!

[Lite Beer]

The biggest problem was getting them to understand that the toilet went up against the wall and not in the middle of the bathroom.

a typical farang misplanning! how do you dance around the toilet with that kind of odd setup?

Do Clingons go to the toilet?

[Lite Beer]

Hi!

4.5B for blocks? Wow! Not bad... Enquired yesterday about a few things

Blocks about 6B (the guy wasn't sure, though)

Tiger Cement 50K bag 150B, the price just having risen yesterday (01 June 2008).

Homemart (here) apparently have offers on tiles & toilets until 15th July, though I found

them still to be rather expensive (but very nice).

Worked out that just to tile & furnish the bathroom would cost approx. 14K Baht, presuming the

roof was on and the walls up. Is your water heater earthed, by the way - and how?

Trouble is, I ain't good at asking about things in stores that I don't know much about - and I get put off when walking around a large store with an assistant following me very closely all the time.

Today we're off to see about steel roof supplies and maybe another tile shop.

Cheers

Scooterboy

PS Thanks, too, for the new photos

All sounds a bit expensive.

We bought a bag of Tiger cement a couple of weeks ago 120 Baht.

The toilet was 1,850

Wash basin 700

Shower 1,490

Tile around 300.

Maybe Chiang Mai is more expensive than Khon Kaen.

Get your wife to deal with the ordering and talk with the staff. You do get used to them following you around. Especially if it is a pretty young lady.

The shower is earthed. Buy a copper earth rod and bang it into the ground.

[egg6447]

The biggest problem was getting them to understand that the toilet went up against the wall and not in the middle of the bathroom.

a typical farang misplanning! how do you dance around the toilet with that kind of odd setup?

Do Clingons go to the toilet?

i thought klingons were the same as weenies. teeny weenie pieces of <deleted> hanging on you arse hair.

[egg6447]

ok scooter boy. heres my 5 penneth. i have twenty rooms such as you require. same dimentions give or take. you have good info now and the prices are about correct. most of your questions are/will be irrelevant, leave the building to the builders. tell them what you want,ref the raised floor. they know what to do. this kind of build is the bread and butter stuff for them. haveing said leave it to them , a couple of pionts i,d like to make, 1/ a water tank in the roof is a must in hindsight, there is always a water cut in los. .2/ earth the whole electrical instalation, at the breaker/fusebourd, an area thai do not understand, either the need or concept. 3/ 6mm or 10mm cable for the water heaters. 4/ residual breakers and miniture circuit breakers at the fuse bourd. 5/ if you intend to biuld on/extend in the futer buy a 15amp meter, at least. dont worry to much . what the biulders do would have me grey in farang land but what they do works here so try not to dictate to much, sabai sabia. a steel structured roof is a must for me, make sure they paint the welds after, rust is as bad as termites. any thing you want to discuss mail me.

[Lite Beer]

ok scooter boy. heres my 5 penneth. i have twenty rooms such as you require. same dimentions give or take. you have good info now and the prices are about correct. most of your questions are/will be irrelevant, leave the building to the builders. tell them what you want,ref the raised floor. they know what to do. this kind of build is the bread and butter stuff for them. haveing said leave it to them , a couple of pionts i,d like to make, 1/ a water tank in the roof is a must in hindsight, there is always a water cut in los. .2/ earth the whole electrical instalation, at the breaker/fusebourd, an area thai do not understand, either the need or concept. 3/ 6mm or 10mm cable for the water heaters. 4/ residual breakers and miniture circuit breakers at the fuse bourd. 5/ if you intend to biuld on/extend in the futer buy a 15amp meter, at least. dont worry to much . what the biulders do would have me grey in farang land but what they do works here so try not to dictate to much, sabai sabia. a steel structured roof is a must for me, make sure they paint the welds after, rust is as bad as termites. any thing you want to discuss mail me.

Yes let them get on with it.

[Lite Beer]

Lite Beer good job. When do I come over for a trial stay?

I am sure the Wife would give a discount for a Thai Visa member.

If you can manage being woken up at 5.45 every morning by the village speaker system and chickens and dogs you are welcome to stay.

[scooterboy]

Hi egg6447 !

Great stuff, especially about the electrical side (which I also know too little about). I will most certainly digest (burp!) your welcome info, just as I've digested the excellent info that LiteBeer has been kind enough to provide. Still ain't no expert, but just knowing about some basic things is (for me) a must! Been told that electricians now automatically install an earth in new houses, nowadays - though I'll believe it when I see it !

Seems I'm learning a whole bunch of new things every day, a lot of it is understandable (and very logical), though I admit that this and that can sometimes be confusing, as it can be hard to find out what sizes of things are used for what (ie. water pipes, rebar, roof steel etc.). Many websites and threads tend to presume that you already know exactly what size is required for what purpose.

At the moment I've used the steel sizes from our house tile-bearing roof as a guide (seeing as that's been there for well over 10 years) and 10 x 5cm C type (for vertical) - and 2.5 x 2.5cm (for horizontal) are the chosen sizes just now. Any hints or suggestions would be welcome. Oh, we'll be using (Elephant/Charng or Diamond type, standard size 120 x 50cm) roof sheeting, not tiles, on the new house, if that makes any difference.

Yep - have already discussed with the wife about letting the workers do their thing without too much interference from us, though she'll most definitely be around to try and politely "correct" or to make "suggestions" about any mishaps.

Like LiteBeer, we'll use 3 workers, though being complete strangers to the district, we're rather wondering how to get hold of them. I've suggested we spend some time asking at local markets, stores, restaurants and whatever - plus hanging some computer printouts up around the area with her phone number on, as an alternative.

Don't think we'll use the water tank in the roof idea, though, there's already a well on the land and after enquiring, it seems there is nearly always city water available. That said, we'll have an outside storage tank as well. But thanks, anyway. As a footnote, the moo barn (village) we currently live in (not city water), provides substandard trucked-in water for a couple of hours in the morning and again in the evening. Want an afternoon shower? - forget it! Been like that for ages and a few days ago we got notice that a unit of water would increase from 20 to 38 baht!

Water heaters? - only one, for the bathroom shower - and a little one, at that. We use only lukewarm water in the cool season - and cold water the rest of the time. I'm scary about them, as I don't like electrical things in bathrooms. After looking at several threads, there appears to be a divided opinion about whether to earth the water heater or not - some say the modern heaters don't really need to be earthed, while other insist on them being earthed. Too, I'm aware that a lot of people don't earth their heater and have absolutely no problems at all.

Thanks a bunch for your input - very welcome indeed !

Cheers

Scooterboy

[scooterboy]

Hi LiteBeer!

Whoo! Again more photos - great! Would still like to have your okay to use the photos you've posted (show 'em to the workers) to get the house done.

Just wrote a post to egg6447 - you might want to read that one.

Went out scouting again today - the wife was horrified at one local store, where she was told that they wouldn't give her the price of steel (for the roof), but she could order what she wanted and the price would be on the bill. Yaah! - now how's that a way to run a business! Needless to say she turned around and walked out again - and rightly so, too.

Looked in at HomePro and Homeworks - can't say I was that impressed. Mostly a lot of fancy stuff for expensive houses - though a couple of good things as well (mainly in the electrical department). Wish they'd price things properly - saw a set of sliding doors with a price tag on, but turns out the tag was for just one piece of the set and the remaining pieces had no price tag at all - confusing! The missus asked an assistant if they sold water piping in whole or cut lengths - just got a "don't know" answer. Wanted to know how long the whole lengths were - again got a blank stare and a "don't know" - the conversation was all in Thai, too!

We later got the prices at another local construction store, where they consult a little handwritten notebook and was told that the price (for nearly everything) fluctuates on a daily basis, sometimes a couple of times a day - and mostly upwards, naturally. Friendly, though and quite helpful. Blocks at their store were 3.80 baht each - gooood!

Will update again when there's anything new.

Cheers

Scooterboy

[Lite Beer]

Can use my pictures. No problem. They are not great but will give an idea.

Water pipes. They are the only thing that that is really cheap so dont worry if you buy too much.

One small thing. Fit bird excluders (don't know the real name) round the edge of the roof. Small plastic grills to stop birds and geckos entering the roof space. Really cheap.

Personally I would never stand in a shower where the heater was not earthed. They come with an earth wire for a reason.

When our house was built 14 months ago nothing was earthed. The earth wire from the shower heaters were just in the roof connected to nothing. We got a good electrician to put an earth rod in the ground and connect everything up. Now we have 3 pin sockets.

Here is some great info on electrics in Thailand from one of our members Crossy.

http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/

Edited June 3, 2008 by Lite Beer

[scooterboy]

Hey Litebeer!

Yet again thanks for the good advice and for your photo okay! Will use just 2 or 3 (maybe more ) of them to illustrate what we want built.

Thanks too, for the link to crossy - I DID have that link already, but it got lost in the jungle that I call my computer, so thanks for "reminding me".

Had a day off today from chasing prices & ideas - our brains were completely blown from dashing around for 4 days - time for a little breather (and to catch up on all the brochures and stuff we've been gathering).

Take care - will be back!

Cheers 4 now

Scooterboy