Alternatives To Sand In Filter?

[jaideeguy]

I've been using a sand filter for 4 yrs and have replaced the sand twice now in the hopes of improving the filtration, but no improvement.

I vaccume all settled dust and dirt off the floor and can see it returning thru the filter and not getting trapped and have even been doing immediate backwashes that will slow down the cycle somewhat. my feeling is that the sand that i buy from two different sources is not really crushed and graded quartz sand with good filtration qualities, but simply river or beach sand that is rounded and not efficient in filtration.

Have heard about zeolite or crushed recycled glass as a filter media and hear that both are far superior to sand in filtering small partacles.

has anyone here switched their media from sand to zeolite or recycled crushed glass?? and did you notice any improvement in suspended particals and clearity??

[enjoyinglife2]

Hi,

I use a blue gell block (nic name snot block) which I put in the skimmer box. this coats the sand with a slime that improves the filtering process.

[cloudhopper]

Hi,

I use a blue gell block (nic name snot block) which I put in the skimmer box. this coats the sand with a slime that improves the filtering process.

...and you get these where in LOS?

[Bagwain]

You are correct in the fact that the sand is not good quality silicate sand here in LOS.

The more you backwash the quicker the sand breaks down!

Silicate sand is available but it comes at about the same price as Zeolite.

Both Zeolite and recycled glass are superior than the rubbish sand used here.

Zeolite is a form of recycled crystal from volcanic rock and recycled glass is well?

Both do an excellent job of removing iron and they do a better job than silicate sand.

You will pay about 1000 baht a bag of Zeolite and about 2000 baht for R/Glass.

Zeolite will last over 7 yrs and R/Glass up to 15

Cheers

[jaideeguy]

I think what 'enjoyinglife' is refering to is maybe a flocculant and I may try running a little thru my filter.

"You are correct in the fact that the sand is not good quality silicate sand here in LOS.

The more you backwash the quicker the sand breaks down!"

Interesting.....I was thinking the same as when you backwash, it disturbs the sand and may over time round it so that it's particle trapping abilities are degraded

"Zeolite is a form of recycled crystal from volcanic rock and recycled glass is well?

Both do an excellent job of removing iron and they do a better job than silicate sand.

You will pay about 1000 baht a bag of Zeolite and about 2000 baht for R/Glass.

Zeolite will last over 7 yrs and R/Glass up to 15"

I was quoted around 9,000baht to fill my 30" sand filter with recycled glass and hesitated, as the wife says that 9kbaht would buy a lot of rice.....so meanwhile my water is cloudy and ugly.

I've read a lot of conflicting advise on swimming pool forums regarding backwashing and filtration in general and have even tried adding a little diatomatious earth [DE] to the filter and can't see any dramatic results.

My swimming pool is driving me into the poorhouse!!!!

[johnnyk]

I think what 'enjoyinglife' is refering to is maybe a flocculant and I may try running a little thru my filter.

Is it a white powder?

The workers put a white powder into the filter when they ran it. I didn't know what it was... samesame them.

[Bagwain]

The sand here last no more than 18 months on an average 1 backwash a month.

Change to Zeolite you won't be dissappointed. It will last for more than 7 yrs.

Good chance it is the filtration that is causing the cloudiness.

Adding DE to a sand filter will not work.

The white powder added to the filter was more than likely one of the chemicals needed for water balance (Soda ash or Bicarb)

Put the pants back on, telll the missus to get stuffed and just do it.

Tell her it is dangerous to swim in a pool that is not well filtered.

Trust my advice as I have been involved with well over 1000 commercial swimming pools and hundreds of domestic.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Bagwain

[AnnyLing]

Adding DE to a sand filter will not work.

It works quite well in our case. We add 2-3 pounds of D.E. every three months to the sand and backwash after a day or two. When opening the filter the discolouration of the D.E. shows clearly that a lot of impurities which passed the sand have been filtered out. The amount of additional D.E. depends on the size of the filter and pump capacity. A small filter might take only one pound. CAUTION! Adding too much D.E. might exceed the maximum pressure the filter can take.

[jaideeguy]

I've tried adding DE and just the other day, I added some flocculent direct to the pre filter basket and see no improvement...

Can anyone recomend a source for recycled glass??

One thing that bothers me is that It is a relatively new product [to my knowledge] yet they claim a 15 yr span before replacing it. Is anyone out there actually using it??

[Bagwain]

Adding DE to a sand filter will not work.

It works quite well in our case. We add 2-3 pounds of D.E. every three months to the sand and backwash after a day or two. When opening the filter the discolouration of the D.E. shows clearly that a lot of impurities which passed the sand have been filtered out. The amount of additional D.E. depends on the size of the filter and pump capacity. A small filter might take only one pound. CAUTION! Adding too much D.E. might exceed the maximum pressure the filter can take.

You may get some assistance from doing that, but DE is supposed to be in a DE filter.

A good quality sand filter with quality media is just as good and no hassle with consumerables!!

By the way - studies have shown that DE is Carcinogenic .

[Bagwain]

Adding DE to a sand filter will not work.

It works quite well in our case. We add 2-3 pounds of D.E. every three months to the sand and backwash after a day or two. When opening the filter the discolouration of the D.E. shows clearly that a lot of impurities which passed the sand have been filtered out. The amount of additional D.E. depends on the size of the filter and pump capacity. A small filter might take only one pound. CAUTION! Adding too much D.E. might exceed the maximum pressure the filter can take.

You may get some assistance from doing that, but DE is supposed to be in a DE filter.

A good quality sand filter with quality media is just as good and no hassle with consumerables!!

By the way - studies have shown that DE is Carcinogenic .

[jaideeguy]

I had read on several pool forums that DE is helpful in sand filters as it fills in the in the interstices [spaces] between the sand particles and improves filtration.

And when handling DE, I do wear a dust mask to protect my lungs....but can it be harmful in the water when it comes in contact with skin??

[AnnyLing]

By the way - studies have shown that DE is Carcinogenic

DE is supposed to be in a filter and not being inhaled. An interesting fact is that breweries worldwide use DE since ages to filter beer. It is used once only and then disposed.

[cloudhopper]

I would have thought the DE would be removed with the first backwash.

I'm also interested in a source for zeolite or ground glass filter media in the CM region...

[jaideeguy]

I did finally find 'manganese zeolite' in CM with world chemicals on mihidol road and had it installed yesterday and am waiting to see if it does make a difference. His method of installing the zeolite was to layer it alternately with a bag of sand [probably the same type of sand that we removed]. My filter took 4 bags of zeo and 3 bags of sand........cost including labor to change media, delivery and media was 2,700baht. I think the zeo was 250/bag [cheaper than I had thought it would be].

[cloudhopper]

OK thanks I think I'll change my filter to zeolite too then.

If you're still getting the fine dark powdery stuff past the filter then I would suspect iron compounds that will have to be precipitated out with PAC and vacuumed to waste.

Let us know what happens.

[jaideeguy]

Better wait CH a few days for the 'dust' to settle and I will post a report. I still get some yellowish green dust suspended and waiting to settle and vacume out. Will post again in a few days my results.

[cloudhopper]

OK and when you do let me know what you think about that Purapool system - will they install one up north?

[Naam]

I would have thought the DE would be removed with the first backwash.

of course it is. during the first two months after pool construction i used DE several times in my sand filter. even a short backwash removes it.

[jaideeguy]

My magnesium zeolite/sand media has been in for a week now and my cloudiness is slowly improving. I'd say that [on a scale of 1-10] pre-zeollite, I was around 6 and post-zeolite, I'm at 8.5 and hope to improve more. still some dust 'blowback and suspended particles.

IMHO there is a media war going on out there for alternatives to sand and zeo claims to be better than recycled glass and visa/versa. I choose zeo because it was 250/bag and recycled glass was 1,250/bag+ shipping. Time will tell if my zeo improves my water and will post again in a couple of weeks time.

I think that there are a couple of other contributing factors in my situation regarding cloudiness...one being that my well water has a lot of suspended calcium and that adds to the particle content of the water and I was skimping on filtration times....only 3-4 hrs a day and am now running filter 5-6 hrs a day.

The installer of the media suggested that I shouldn't add rain water collected from my roof as it will cause algae blooms....I was guttering my main roof into the pool not only to save on pumping costs, but to lower my ph.

Lots of conflicting info out there!!!

Cloudhopper, I'll send you a pm with my phone number and if you want, we can discuss further, as i think we may have same problems.

[Naam]

My magnesium zeolite/sand media has been in for a week now and my cloudiness is slowly improving.

try one kilo of poly aluminium chloride. three days and you will think a miracle happened! cost ~ 200 Baht.

[cloudhopper]

Naam how and how often do you apply your PAC treatment? Easier procedure than what I described in the problem green colour thread I hope!

[Naam]

Naam how and how often do you apply your PAC treatment? Easier procedure than what I described in the problem green colour thread I hope!

i have an automatic dosage pump for dissolved PAC but i switch it on only one day a month (enclosed pool). my "measure" is too see absolutely no impurities near the pool lights when it's dark. outside pools exposed to more dirt and dust might need treatments every few months with a big dose of 1kg. but as i mentioned PAC really performs miracles and that goes for the water's mineral content too. procedure is quite easy for those without a dosage pump. let the pool pump run, dissolve PAC in bucket and distribute in pool (if possible evenly). reddish brown sediments on pool bottom should be vacuumed not via filter but via waste pipe. after a treatment like this it takes at least a week and daily vacuuming till the sediments disappear.

[jaideeguy]

Is poly aluminium chloride [PAC] a flocculent?? sounds kinda like what I use occasionally and it does work....takes a couple of days to settle the dust as what looks like an ugly gell on the floor, then have to vaccume to waste. my only problem with that is that it takes many hours to refill my pool to top again and as naam says there are some residuals for a week or more.

only difference is that my settled mess is yellow greenish color and i call it the 'green pool monster' to my kids to keep them out of the pool while it settles.

[Naam]

Is poly aluminium chloride [PAC] a flocculent??

yes!

[jaideeguy]

My 'measure' of clearity, not having pool lites is how clear i can see the tile grout lines on deep end of the pool.

and my 'flocculent' was in a liquid form and was advised to add a gallon. cost was about the same and CH can get it at 'world chemicals'.

[Naam]

my only problem with that is that it takes many hours to refill my pool to top again and as naam says there are some residuals for a week or more.

why does it take hours? how long does it take to vacuum your pool bottom?

[jaideeguy]

It can take up to an hor to thuroughly vaccume that green monster and with a 2 hp pump, a lot of water goes to waste. why is your monster reddish and mine greenish??

[jaideeguy]

and 6+ hrs of my domestic well pump to replace the vaccumed to waste water.

[cloudhopper]

Yeah it's all the makeup water that's the real killer when you have to vacuum to waste. Fortunately I have a concrete irrigation canal out front so I can pump lots of water from there into my sump tank and the pool filter cleans it right up.

PAC is a bright yellow/orange powder so I imagine that's what Naam is referring to. Actually come to think of it PAC might be more economical to use routinely than Pooltrine liquid...but I don't know if chlorine alone will suppress algae.