The Best Bike In Town For Town

[Captain Haddock]

And at the risk of being flamed, I see that TV is quite biased towards the CBR150, as several posters own em. Take a look at any city intersection and you'll see that most Thais don't in fact use em much - they prefer the twist and go scooter, but out of town it's usually the Wave and Dream as they're reliable workhorses. After a few years which bike is gonna get you home? The tractor of bikes, the Dream. DOn't Honda have a couple on display in their museum that have done over 1,000,000 km?

Personally, I use a Dream around Bangkok, but I use a proper bike down south (legal and everything). I will have to get a car soon, though, sigh. Families, eh...?

[moo9]

And at the risk of being flamed, I see that TV is quite biased towards the CBR150, as several posters own em.

Agree to this. Even if I repeat myself, the CBR 150 is a very nice bike.

But it is a city bike! Quite uncomfortably for the lady behind you, no storage and the risk of get hand cramps in case of dense traffic.

I miss my CBR 150 for sure, but for the weekend excursions in the city I am far better off with my Airblade (not talking about fuel consumption though, but that does not really matter for the short distances I drive).

Rgds

Moo9

Edited June 25, 2008 by moo9

[dave_boo]

And at the risk of being flamed, I see that TV is quite biased towards the CBR150, as several posters own em. Take a look at any city intersection and you'll see that most Thais don't in fact use em much - they prefer the twist and go scooter, but out of town it's usually the Wave and Dream as they're reliable workhorses. After a few years which bike is gonna get you home? The tractor of bikes, the Dream. DOn't Honda have a couple on display in their museum that have done over 1,000,000 km?

Personally, I use a Dream around Bangkok, but I use a proper bike down south (legal and everything). I will have to get a car soon, though, sigh. Families, eh...?

/me dons his flame resistant underwear and wades in.......

Popularity doesn't equate quality. For an example, look at Liz Phair. I.E., even though something is not overwhelmingly popular it does not mean that it isn't one of the best. On the other hand, I think of the Fino as more Britney Spears, super popular but utter rubbish.

I (want to) believe that the reason that the CBR 150R is so popular on this board is due to the fact that on average Expats have a much higher disposable income than natives. This affords us the opportunity to purchase items that others would not be able to budget for.

I will grant you that the Dream/Wave engine seem bullet-proof if not terribly soul stirring. However, have read various things that PeaceBlondie has written it seems that Honda hasn't done a terribly bad job with the CBR 150R's engine if we are to go by how many kilometers he had traveled on his old one.

And yes, I know that Thanh is going to chime in about how reliable two-strokes are so let me pre-empt him by stating that the family has/had a Sonic RS smoker that had the meter disconnected or broken at over 45 000 km. Nobody was sure how long ago that was either! Too bad they can not economically install the emission control devices that allow two-strokes to run without polluting so much.

[Richard-BKK]

Nothing wrong with a Honda Sonic RS, but so far as I know is this a 4-stroke motorcycle. Matter of fact it is equipped with the same engine as the CBR-125, which we all know is identical to the CBR-150R with the exception of the combustion assemble (cylinder, cylinder head, piston, etc).

Honda currently sells 2 models, the main difference between the 2 models is Honda Sonic RS has normal wheels and the Honda Sonic Super RS has magnesium alloy wheels.

There have been three generations of Sonic's. Other than being visually modified, there are little differences. The second generation received an update to the liquid cooling, while the 3rd generation received a new free flow exhaust. Parts can be changed from all 3 generation, despite being older or newer.

So far as I know did Honda never sold a 2-stroke Sonic. Therefore I belief that Dave_boo is revering to the 2-stroke Honda Nova Dash RS. Which looks a lot like the Honda Sonic. And share the same family name “NOVA” as the Honda Sonic is official called the Honda Nova Sonic RS.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

And a speedmeter cable breaking at 45,000 has NOTHING to do with "reliability" - with THAT i mean after how many kilometers the ENGINE still does it's job

In Germany people tend to say "two-stroke? Throw away after 50k kilometers". Well, mine is rapidly closing in on 73,000 now (plus unknown), and the one down my soi is at over 110.000 already. Oh, and i also had to change my speedmeter cable already - it lasted just over 15,000 kilometers

And what is that with everyone saying "two-strokes are polluters"? I prefer riding behind any number of two-strokes than behind one single Diesel. A properly tuned (i.e. set up) two-stroke only emits smoke after a cold start or after a longer period of low-rpm riding with hot engine and then sudden "opening of the throttle", such as when finally reaching the end of congested Ekkamai and screaming over the bridge towards Rama 9

Best regards.....

Thanh

[LivinLOS]

Sparks arent really that noisy are they ??

If they redesigned the spark to have enough space under the seat for storage large enough for a helmet I would probably own one.

No, Sparks are very (too?) quiet in standard form, but I was talking about the after market zorsts available here (see above).

If they redesigned the Spark to have space under the seat it would be a Nouveau or somat. As far as I know, none of the "underbone" bikes have it because you have a proper frame instead.

I always thought a Nuovo was an 'underbone' bike !!!

And I realize it would take away from the speed design ethos a bit, but then so does a bloody large top box !!

I always found the Sparks, the Sonics, and the Raiders more comfortable for my large size than the CBR.. The CBR pitches me forward yet I can be more upright in traffic easily on the 3 smaller ones.

[PeaceBlondie]

A new CBR150 costs about 65K. I know a 17-year old non-Thai whose father had about 80K to spend for a new motorbike, but the boy could not convince Dad to buy him anything more than a Fino, which is fine, and youuu? Thais generally cannot afford, or choose not, to pay over 50K for a new bike. Yet even in this town full of farang, I see Thais driving CBR's (and its baby brother, the Sonic 125 step-through).

But I have not had a step-through since 1961, and my next bike was a street-dragster Triumph 700. To me, a step-through is a

girl's bike, for skirt wearers.

[dave_boo]

Nothing wrong with a Honda Sonic RS, but so far as I know is this a 4-stroke motorcycle. Matter of fact it is equipped with the same engine as the CBR-125, which we all know is identical to the CBR-150R with the exception of the combustion assemble (cylinder, cylinder head, piston, etc).

Honda currently sells 2 models, the main difference between the 2 models is Honda Sonic RS has normal wheels and the Honda Sonic Super RS has magnesium alloy wheels.

There have been three generations of Sonic's. Other than being visually modified, there are little differences. The second generation received an update to the liquid cooling, while the 3rd generation received a new free flow exhaust. Parts can be changed from all 3 generation, despite being older or newer.

So far as I know did Honda never sold a 2-stroke Sonic. Therefore I belief that Dave_boo is revering to the 2-stroke Honda Nova Dash RS. Which looks a lot like the Honda Sonic. And share the same family name "NOVA" as the Honda Sonic is official called the Honda Nova Sonic RS.

Hmmm, you know what...calling up the family resulted in a quick affirmation of what RichardBKK just posted. Funny thing is, last time I rode it (been a while) with the exception of not having ANY shock oil, it wasn't in too bad of a condition. Granted it would rattle your teeth out but after you reached a certain RPM you better make sure you were holding on really well.

@Thanh:

The reference to the odometer cable was merely for a reference to how reliable the motor HAS been.

@PeaceBlondie:

To me, a step-through is a girl's bike, for skirt wearers.

Have you ever used a skirt (or a kilt) while riding a bike? That's free air conditioning for your family jewels.

Edited June 26, 2008 by dave_boo

[dotcom]

Got a Nova Dash RS parked that I never ride anymore. They were the fastest 125 around in the day.

A Sonic has never been a step through bike. A Sonic is a proper bike. A 4 stroke that sounds horrible & makes no power.

Falang like CBR150 because it has a large frame & so do falang. I had a NSR 150 SP which was ok for a while but I got tired of the 2 stroke & sold it.

[Captain Haddock]

Step-throughs are not girl bikes - automatics are girl bikes! Step-throughs are boring, reliabe and dull, but perfect for about town as they have the added bonus of rain shields for the legs!

CBR150s, on the other hand, are childish. I had a Kawasaki 150cc plastic torpedo 2-stroke thing for a while, and that was great fun, too! But we all know that we'd be embarrased to be seen on one in our own countries. If you're gonna get a proper bike, then get a big cc'd thing. I used to ride a 150cc Phantom, but it was physically too small for me. I looked silly on it, although it was great fun to ride (the same engine as the NSR but in a "chopper" frame) and I did several thousand kms on it. But too small (and a 2-stroke engine in a chopper? Sheesh). So I bought a Yam 650. But TiT, so glorified mopeds rule! And around town, the coolest looking chopper is just gonna be dead weight between your legs if you can't get through the traffic...

And as for farangs having more disposable income, hah! We do not have the extensive family support that all Thais seem to have, so while we pay cash for most things, Thais generally borrow and upgrade every year to the lastest model - what's popular, not what's quality. You do indeed see most folks riding on automatic scooters and so on, and we all know those bikes will die after a few years, while the boring mopeds just keep on whirring away.

However, I thought the whole point of biking was to enjoy what you ride, no matter what anyone else thinks of you, and I hope we all continue to differ on our choice of bikes. It would be rather boring if we all rode the same thing everywhere, eh?

[PeaceBlondie]

To anybody offended by me calling step-throughs girls' bikes, I half-heartedly apologize. That is just my opinion. But automatic clutches, auto trannies, backwards-shifting four speed trannies, a wire basket in front easy to drive with a full skirt - no thanks.

Yes, whatever you want, ride it, and enjoy it. Vespas, for instance, are as cool as an old 1950-s oval-rear-window, 32-horsepower VW Bug. or a Citroen 2CV.

[dotcom]

Kudos to Yamaha for creating a whole new class of bike.

Nuovo.

Running boards & splash guard so it can be ridden in leather shoes. Ditto having zero foot controls.

I have always been a Honda guy but they are a follower now instead of an innovative leader. Kudos to Yamaha for thinking outside the box.

[Thanh-BKK]

Got a Nova Dash RS parked that I never ride anymore. They were the fastest 125 around in the day.

A Sonic has never been a step through bike. A Sonic is a proper bike. A 4 stroke that sounds horrible & makes no power.

Falang like CBR150 because it has a large frame & so do falang. I had a NSR 150 SP which was ok for a while but I got tired of the 2 stroke & sold it.

Hi

Hmm a Sonic is more an "inbetween" - not really a step-thru but certainly also not a "proper bike" (if you are referring to the type where you have the tank between the knees).

And "no power"? When my RXZ was still stock i had a bit of trouble keeping up with them Sonic's - they were pretty much the only ones in that class (125-135 cc) that would get away from me at lights and rather difficult to catch later on.

Of course now they've got no chance anymore and i'm now racing the 150cc two-strokes

If you still have that poor Dash sitting around collecting dust and want to get rid of it, i'd take it. A two-stroke is always in good hands with me

@dave_boo

Yeah, i sort of misinterpreted your words - not being a native English speaker doesn't help very much The word "pre-empt" got me - for not knowing it's meaning.

But i also am interested to know just WHY two-strokes are so extraordinarily reliable and robust here? In Germany, Japanese two-strokes have a horrible image - usually really not lasting beyond 20.000 kilometers or like that without a major engine rebuild. Here i see them chugging on with 100k+ kilometers on them, and i know that the guy in my soi never does any great maintenance - he just keeps driving, lubing the chain and replacing worn-out things like sprockets. He told me that his runs on the 2nd piston and non-bored cylinder. He's the first owner of that RXZ

Oh, and i also saw a (poor optical condition) VR with 98.000 kilometers on it. It's engine is similar to that of the RXZ (they are swappable) but 150cc and water cooled. The RXZ is directly based on the RD 125 (frame and everything, minus the water-cooling), while the VR only has it's engine (bigger bore).

Best regards.....

Thanh

[mickba]

I always thought a Nuovo was an 'underbone' bike !!!

And I realize it would take away from the speed design ethos a bit, but then so does a bloody large top box !! .........

Sorry if I'm wrong but I thought the Nouvo(?) was defo not an underbone - who can clarify?

As I said, the SMALL size Givi is the one for these and at about 15 inches wide it's a fair bit narrower than my a*se so aerodynamics don't really come into it.

[LivinLOS]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underbone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_Nouvo

That link describes the Nuovo as "Class :: Underbone" but to be honest underbone is a term I had never heard until coming here.. I thought it was any machine where the engine is hung off a single frame section above it.. Like the Sonic / Raider / Wave / etc... I thought that the semi step through style was part of the 'underbone' class also but ????

Its not a term I have a solid definition of.. What would you call an underbone ??

[PeaceBlondie]

My definitions of bone and underbone might not be printable. I think that any bike you can step your leg through is a step-through, and a scooter, including the Sonic and Raider. If you have to swing your foot over, it's a horse, burro, or real motorbike.

[dotcom]

Had a look at a Sonic. Thanh is quite right. It's an in between. Fuel tank under seat means you can mount it either way.

Being male I always throw my leg over.

Mio Nuovo whole new class of bike. Target market - females children & male office workers.

Electric start, semi automatic gearbox, no clutch & all controls operated by hand.

[tropo]

If I am riding to the shops I need storage (wave)..

There's no storage in a Honda Wave.

You have obviously never owned one...

Under seat.. Plus front basket.. Plus hooks..

I have owned one. From November 2004 until May 2006, and rented dozens before that as early as 1999. After that I became an automatic fan.

So they've added a hook...wow.

Under the seat? What can you fit there?

The front basket is useless for carrying anything...especially at night when it obscures your light.

[JetsetBkk]

Nouvo for me. It's a step-through, but it's too high for my big feet so I swing my leg over.

[LivinLOS]

If I am riding to the shops I need storage (wave)..

There's no storage in a Honda Wave.

You have obviously never owned one...

Under seat.. Plus front basket.. Plus hooks..

I have owned one. From November 2004 until May 2006, and rented dozens before that as early as 1999. After that I became an automatic fan.

So they've added a hook...wow.

Under the seat? What can you fit there?

The front basket is useless for carrying anything...especially at night when it obscures your light.

A full face helmet !!

Its not as big as a nuovo.. But its probably comparable to a airblade ??

Bikes out on loan at the moment but its a regular 125 wave i.. Maybe 3 years old ?? The one that had the silver embossed wave 125i faux metal stick ons on the flank.

[tropo]

If I am riding to the shops I need storage (wave)..

There's no storage in a Honda Wave.

You have obviously never owned one...

Under seat.. Plus front basket.. Plus hooks..

I have owned one. From November 2004 until May 2006, and rented dozens before that as early as 1999. After that I became an automatic fan.

So they've added a hook...wow.

Under the seat? What can you fit there?

The front basket is useless for carrying anything...especially at night when it obscures your light.

A full face helmet !!

Its not as big as a nuovo.. But its probably comparable to a airblade ??

Bikes out on loan at the moment but its a regular 125 wave i.. Maybe 3 years old ?? The one that had the silver embossed wave 125i faux metal stick ons on the flank.

Well in that case, I apologize. My 125 cc Honda Wave barely had enough space under the seat to stash a rain jacket. They must have done something about it in the newer models.

[LivinLOS]

No apology necessary at all..

In fact I am just as surprised, as your not the first person whose pointed this out to me.. I have only had the one wave and expected they were all like that. I often sing the praises of waves but thats based on that bike, if they came without a good sized under seat storage (and basket and hook) my appreciation of thier super practicality would be lowered..

Without storage under there you may as well get a spark 135.

[jackcorbett]

Some thoughts here. I own a Nouvo and like it very much). A fully automatic Airblade has tires that are two sizes larger than the typical Honda Wave (except the wheel diameter is 14 inches compared to 16 to 17 for the Wave). Now considering that the rubber on the pavement is what keeps you on earth (in more than one way) would you prefer skinny tires or big fat tires? The airblade aside from being a step through looks like a small motorcyle. Now, what is safer? A bike with balloon bicyle tires or one with tires two sizes larger? I think this is a no brainer. Also....Recently came back from Vietnam. Saw a Honda Wave there with the same sized tires as the Nouvo...that is fatter than the Honda Waves do here. Why? Was this a stock model for the Vietnam market or simply an owner who's using his noodle?

I have owned one. From November 2004 until May 2006, and rented dozens before that as early as 1999. After that I became an automatic fan.

So they've added a hook...wow.

Under the seat? What can you fit there?

The front basket is useless for carrying anything...especially at night when it obscures your light.

A full face helmet !!

Its not as big as a nuovo.. But its probably comparable to a airblade ??

Bikes out on loan at the moment but its a regular 125 wave i.. Maybe 3 years old ?? The one that had the silver embossed wave 125i faux metal stick ons on the flank.

[Lichiyado]

What did I miss? Nobody mentioned the Suzuki Hayate. In the voting tally it's considered an "other" Suzuki step-through? Hunh? Doesn't deserve it's own listing? Hunh? On par with The Nouvo and the Airblade, and tad bit cheaper, it's a hella fun ride for an underbone.

OK, so it's only been around for 2 years and doesn't have much of a track record. OK, so it's a girly stepthrough woman's shopping bike with a huge, gaping maw of underseat storage. OK, so it's a geezer farang pu$$y bike with a seat big and soft enough for Kung <deleted> Panda. OK, so it's NOT a CB 400. Or CBR 150 for that matter.

As far as overall versatility, I think it's da bomb. So I bought one. Just a few days ago. Fit and finish as good as any Yammy or Honda I've seen or ridden. Beautiful paint job. White rainbow pearl metallic. Peeled off most of the racer-boy graphics to revel in the glory of the paint.

And with it's 125cc engine, it's plenty peppy for around town. Takes off like a bullet. A slow bullet, but a bullet nonetheless. OK, a very slow bullet. Having just moved from the Hawai'i and the saddle of a Suzuki SV 650, I'd have to admit, an extremely slow bullet. Moving backwards. Moving backwards fast.

I digress.

I love this bike. Everything I need and want for now. And I want a CB 400. And a Suzuki Carribean. And a lover who won't drive me crazy.

[tropo]

Some thoughts here. I own a Nouvo and like it very much). A fully automatic Airblade has tires that are two sizes larger than the typical Honda Wave (except the wheel diameter is 14 inches compared to 16 to 17 for the Wave). Now considering that the rubber on the pavement is what keeps you on earth (in more than one way) would you prefer skinny tires or big fat tires? The airblade aside from being a step through looks like a small motorcyle. Now, what is safer? A bike with balloon bicyle tires or one with tires two sizes larger? I think this is a no brainer. Also....Recently came back from Vietnam. Saw a Honda Wave there with the same sized tires as the Nouvo...that is fatter than the Honda Waves do here. Why? Was this a stock model for the Vietnam market or simply an owner who's using his noodle?

The meatier tyres on the Honda Air Blade is one reason why I prefer it to the Nouvo. More rubber on the road is definetely an advantage.

Edited June 30, 2008 by tropo

[Familyonthemove]

Just spent the day looking at and trying out various bikes for use in the city, so this thread was useful and fascinating ....

My last bike (in the UK) was a Triumph Sprint RS 955cc ..... but it was never much fun in a city, and my last bike (in India) was an Enfield Bullet, which was good in the city except for the gears. I used to get beaten through the traffic by the millions of Honda scooters with their auto drive, small wheels and tight turning circle ..... and you need the foot control of a prima ballerina to get a new Bullet into neutral, so my clutch muscles are well developed.

So first priority for me when choosing a city bike is an auto, next is acceleration to get ahead of the traffic, then decent brakes. Somewhere to put the helmet would be nice and a bit of weather protection would be handy.

So the verdict (after some admittedly very short tests) ..... the Nuovo.

But one of the Italian scoots with two front wheels would be even better if they were availlable here.

Or a BMW C1? Anyone seen one of those in Bangkok?

[jackcorbett]

Here's something to think about. THe bike in this picture is the Honda Click. I rented one yesterday and again today at Koh Samet where nearly all the roads are dirt roads and often deeply rutted. The day before I rented an Air Blade on Koh Larn Island. Riding two up was no problem getting up the hills on Koh Larn.

Now, this Honda Click is slightly modified. The Airblade has fatter tires than the Nouvo which has fatter tires than the Honda Waves. For instance the 16 inch diameter tire of the Nouvo has a width of 80 mm. The rear tire of the Air Blade is 90 mm. This Click has both front and rear tires that are 90 mm so it's got tire size even on the Air Blade. And they are dirt bike tires---that is deeply cleated. Well.....this Click was as sure footed in the dirt as a mountain goat and I could practically idle up steep hills. Or I could rev it up and go quicky up the hills. Downhills no matter how rough, full of sand, pebbles, ruts or even with small boulders were a breeze. And the brakes were great. One gets far more control with an automatic in such situations than one would believe.

Okay....Here's the bike. And here's a section of one of those deeply rutted steep hills. Now, who said these automatics lacked power and the ability to get up hills? Oh, I'd imagine a manual might do better and a pure dirt bike even better yet, but trust me, these autos are not that shabby and not nearly as slow as some would like to make them out to be. And ahem.....Who said the manuals give such great control compared to the automatics, for braking and the like? Well.......I didn't have any problems controlling this street bike on these steep downhills. Incidentally, that Click had great brakes, far better than the ones I used to have on my dirt bikes down at the farm. (Incidentally out of all the cars and trucks I've owned over the past forty years only one, my last pickup truck, had an automatic so I'm not exactly prejudiced towards automatics).

Edited July 1, 2008 by jackcorbett

[JetsetBkk]

Great looking tyres! Might get me some of those for my Nouvo!

[Chaimai]

But I have not had a step-through since 1961, and my next bike was a street-dragster Triumph 700. To me, a step-through is a

girl's bike, for skirt wearers.

So, where do you put your shopping ?

[LivinLOS]

Some thoughts here. I own a Nouvo and like it very much). A fully automatic Airblade has tires that are two sizes larger than the typical Honda Wave (except the wheel diameter is 14 inches compared to 16 to 17 for the Wave). Now considering that the rubber on the pavement is what keeps you on earth (in more than one way) would you prefer skinny tires or big fat tires? The airblade aside from being a step through looks like a small motorcyle. Now, what is safer? A bike with balloon bicyle tires or one with tires two sizes larger? I think this is a no brainer. Also....Recently came back from Vietnam. Saw a Honda Wave there with the same sized tires as the Nouvo...that is fatter than the Honda Waves do here. Why? Was this a stock model for the Vietnam market or simply an owner who's using his noodle?

So its trivially easy to change the tyre width if you like on a Wave to make it as wide or much wider (seen one wave with tyres wide as a CB150.. Looked great)..

Can you change the airblades dinky wheels to a larger diameter so it doesnt crash and bounce in every pothole and bump in Thailand rough road surfaces ??

Again wave wins in flexibility.