Govt Faces No-confidence

[Insight]

Good article on the BBC news website highlighting why Samak the clown is getting the receiption he's receiving now:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7471180.stm

Thanks steveromagnino and samran for your perspectives - always an interesting read.

[Artisi]

The way I see the majority of on-going problems and the chance of it ever ending is tied up in the absolute complete laziness, lack of b*lls and no real fire in the belly national pride of the majority of Thai people. Nothing will happen because no one care and as a percentge of whose who do care it is like a drop in the ocean.

This of course would raise the ire of most Thai people but it is easy to see the truth in the statement - just look around you on a daily basis and the complete lack of pride in their environment, rubbish just dropped and left piled up when they finished what ever they were doing - foot-paths and roads falling apart through lack of interest by those in charge , buildings that look like the middle of a war zone etc. this is just the first step to real pride in your country.

The problem stems from way back, Thailand has had it too easy for the past few hundred years, no one has tried to take their country from them (except for the corrupt politicians who have done it by stealth and bribes) so there had been no need to get of their backsides and fight for what is right and just. Sure there have been a couple of minor coups but that doesn't make for a cohesive and tough society demanding their rights for fair, just and coruption free governance. Plus the normal thinking of mai pen rai - it's ok it's not my problem, I'll just sit back and ignore it because it doesn't affect me and it's easy - life in sannok I don't have to think too hard about anything, I've got lots of brainless TV to watch with plenty of violence to keep me entertained and my mind off important things which I can't ask for answers to because I'm kreng jai and anyway, the government run TV channels only tell me the truth with their newsreports - anything else must be false or raised to cause trouble for Thailand.

Also, the belief that having wealth must mean you are important and you can do what you want - a fact backed up by any current news story you like to pick where any hi-so person is involved, like shooting a policeman and runnng away to be protected by a politician, or crashing your cars into a line of peple at a bus stop because you lost face, or accepting millions of baht in bribes, found guilty and you can still be a politician - if you just turn your back to these things and really hasn't happened and I don't have to think on it.

Where do we go from here - probably no where until there is a complete change of attitude and thinking.

I just hope this is sooner than later for the good of the majority of Thai people.

[nothingleftbutfaith]

The way I see the majority of on-going problems and the chance of it ever ending is tied up in the absolute complete laziness, lack of b*lls and no real fire in the belly national pride of the majority of Thai people. Nothing will happen because no one care and as a percentge of whose who do care it is like a drop in the ocean.

This of course would raise the ire of most Thai people but it is easy to see the truth in the statement - just look around you on a daily basis and the complete lack of pride in their environment, rubbish just dropped and left piled up when they finished what ever they were doing - foot-paths and roads falling apart through lack of interest by those in charge , buildings that look like the middle of a war zone etc. this is just the first step to real pride in your country.

The problem stems from way back, Thailand has had it too easy for the past few hundred years, no one has tried to take their country from them (except for the corrupt politicians who have done it by stealth and bribes) so there had been no need to get of their backsides and fight for what is right and just. Sure there have been a couple of minor coups but that doesn't make for a cohesive and tough society demanding their rights for fair, just and coruption free governance. Plus the normal thinking of mai pen rai - it's ok it's not my problem, I'll just sit back and ignore it because it doesn't affect me and it's easy - life in sannok I don't have to think too hard about anything, I've got lots of brainless TV to watch with plenty of violence to keep me entertained and my mind off important things which I can't ask for answers to because I'm kreng jai and anyway, the government run TV channels only tell me the truth with their newsreports - anything else must be false or raised to cause trouble for Thailand.

Also, the belief that having wealth must mean you are important and you can do what you want - a fact backed up by any current news story you like to pick where any hi-so person is involved, like shooting a policeman and runnng away to be protected by a politician, or crashing your cars into a line of peple at a bus stop because you lost face, or accepting millions of baht in bribes, found guilty and you can still be a politician - if you just turn your back to these things and really hasn't happened and I don't have to think on it.

Where do we go from here - probably no where until there is a complete change of attitude and thinking.

I just hope this is sooner than later for the good of the majority of Thai people.

A sad, yet brilliant analysis and summary of Thai society.

[midas]

The way I see the majority of on-going problems and the chance of it ever ending is tied up in the absolute complete laziness, lack of b*lls and no real fire in the belly national pride of the majority of Thai people. Nothing will happen because no one care and as a percentge of whose who do care it is like a drop in the ocean.

This of course would raise the ire of most Thai people but it is easy to see the truth in the statement - just look around you on a daily basis and the complete lack of pride in their environment, rubbish just dropped and left piled up when they finished what ever they were doing - foot-paths and roads falling apart through lack of interest by those in charge , buildings that look like the middle of a war zone etc. this is just the first step to real pride in your country.

The problem stems from way back, Thailand has had it too easy for the past few hundred years, no one has tried to take their country from them (except for the corrupt politicians who have done it by stealth and bribes) so there had been no need to get of their backsides and fight for what is right and just. Sure there have been a couple of minor coups but that doesn't make for a cohesive and tough society demanding their rights for fair, just and coruption free governance. Plus the normal thinking of mai pen rai - it's ok it's not my problem, I'll just sit back and ignore it because it doesn't affect me and it's easy - life in sannok I don't have to think too hard about anything, I've got lots of brainless TV to watch with plenty of violence to keep me entertained and my mind off important things which I can't ask for answers to because I'm kreng jai and anyway, the government run TV channels only tell me the truth with their newsreports - anything else must be false or raised to cause trouble for Thailand.

Also, the belief that having wealth must mean you are important and you can do what you want - a fact backed up by any current news story you like to pick where any hi-so person is involved, like shooting a policeman and runnng away to be protected by a politician, or crashing your cars into a line of peple at a bus stop because you lost face, or accepting millions of baht in bribes, found guilty and you can still be a politician - if you just turn your back to these things and really hasn't happened and I don't have to think on it.

Where do we go from here - probably no where until there is a complete change of attitude and thinking.

I just hope this is sooner than later for the good of the majority of Thai people.

Yes indeed Artisi - very true ! And i wouldnt hold your breath that such change

will happen in our lifetimes - very sad

[clausewitz]

This of course would raise the ire of most Thai people but it is easy to see the truth in the statement - just look around you on a daily basis and the complete lack of pride in their environment, rubbish just dropped and left piled up when they finished what ever they were doing - foot-paths and roads falling apart through lack of interest by those in charge ,

Take the mid-eighties when Bangkok pollution was much worse than today. Now it is a clean city, with regular rubbish collections and good roads. Jeez I cruise at 130k/hr on the great elevated tollways almost every day.

If you don't see the improvement in these last 20 years then you must be blind. Or take a trip to India or Phillipines - both have more rubbish and worse roads than Thailand. Yet the citizens have national pride.

buildings that look like the middle of a war zone etc. this is just the first step to real pride in your country.

The complex I stay in has 20 stories, excellent facilities and is very good value and doesn't look anything like a warzone.

[hammered]

Good article on the BBC news website highlighting why Samak the clown is getting the receiption he's receiving now:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7471180.stm

Thanks steveromagnino and samran for your perspectives - always an interesting read.

Excellent summary. thanks for posting it.

[Insight]

The way I see the majority of on-going problems and the chance of it ever ending is tied up in the absolute complete laziness, lack of b*lls and no real fire in the belly national pride of the majority of Thai people. Nothing will happen because no one care and as a percentge of whose who do care it is like a drop in the ocean.

This of course would raise the ire of most Thai people but it is easy to see the truth in the statement - just look around you on a daily basis and the complete lack of pride in their environment, rubbish just dropped and left piled up when they finished what ever they were doing - foot-paths and roads falling apart through lack of interest by those in charge , buildings that look like the middle of a war zone etc. this is just the first step to real pride in your country.

The problem stems from way back, Thailand has had it too easy for the past few hundred years, no one has tried to take their country from them (except for the corrupt politicians who have done it by stealth and bribes) so there had been no need to get of their backsides and fight for what is right and just. Sure there have been a couple of minor coups but that doesn't make for a cohesive and tough society demanding their rights for fair, just and coruption free governance. Plus the normal thinking of mai pen rai - it's ok it's not my problem, I'll just sit back and ignore it because it doesn't affect me and it's easy - life in sannok I don't have to think too hard about anything, I've got lots of brainless TV to watch with plenty of violence to keep me entertained and my mind off important things which I can't ask for answers to because I'm kreng jai and anyway, the government run TV channels only tell me the truth with their newsreports - anything else must be false or raised to cause trouble for Thailand.

Also, the belief that having wealth must mean you are important and you can do what you want - a fact backed up by any current news story you like to pick where any hi-so person is involved, like shooting a policeman and runnng away to be protected by a politician, or crashing your cars into a line of peple at a bus stop because you lost face, or accepting millions of baht in bribes, found guilty and you can still be a politician - if you just turn your back to these things and really hasn't happened and I don't have to think on it.

Where do we go from here - probably no where until there is a complete change of attitude and thinking.

I just hope this is sooner than later for the good of the majority of Thai people.

Yes indeed Artisi - very true ! And i wouldnt hold your breath that such change

will happen in our lifetimes - very sad

Perhaps you guys need to step back a bit - it's not a complete nation of layabouts your attempting to picture, although I can appreciate how you've gathered that impression.

You can't label the gathering of 25,000 people (more than likely a lot more, but it's been done to death) within a week's notice a "mai pen rai" attitude. Whether you see it or not, the average attitude of most Thais within Bangkok is one of frustration with the political situation. Change is wanted and it's not going to be found with the people in power now. The question is - how to achieve it without violence? (Chamlong has been making an active effort all the way through the protests to distance the protesters from any use of violence)

The lack in pride in the environment is not because people don't care about their surroundings - it's more a case of being educated about why protecting the environment is necessary. Hardly think you're going to find that with the current group, although there are smaller initiatives in place and the message is slowly getting through.

Yes, it's sad and unfortunate the way things are, and money clearly can buy you immunity, but to come to the conclusion it's deserved as people don't really care is not a fair and accurate reflection of the population.

[Artisi]

This of course would raise the ire of most Thai people but it is easy to see the truth in the statement - just look around you on a daily basis and the complete lack of pride in their environment, rubbish just dropped and left piled up when they finished what ever they were doing - foot-paths and roads falling apart through lack of interest by those in charge ,

Take the mid-eighties when Bangkok pollution was much worse than today. Now it is a clean city, with regular rubbish collections and good roads. Jeez I cruise at 130k/hr on the great elevated tollways almost every day.

If you don't see the improvement in these last 20 years then you must be blind. Or take a trip to India or Phillipines - both have more rubbish and worse roads than Thailand. Yet the citizens have national pride.

buildings that look like the middle of a war zone etc. this is just the first step to real pride in your country.

The complex I stay in has 20 stories, excellent facilities and is very good value and doesn't look anything like a warzone.

I agree that Bkk has certainly changed over the nearly 20 years I have known Thailand and is cetainly a lot cleaner in the main areas, but step out of the 20 story apartment and get off elevated motor ways that only a very small majority of Thai people use (or can afford) and have a look behind the scenes and in some of the outlying area's and other major centres round the country. Many of these areas are still third world mainly and due to the apathy of the local people and the complete lack of interest by the local authorities in tidying up the mess left by those who just don't care.

For instance, each morning I walk / jog a 6 Km circuit up one side of the river in Phitsanulok and down the other using an area beautified at much expense as a tourist attraction - some of this area is now only 18 months old and is already becoming derelict because of apathy of the populus - lack of care from the authorty. Broken foot paths, exposed electrical wiring, leaking water supply, broken bricks and concrete laying about beside the general dirtyness of things like food containers - bottles etc just dropped where they were finished with some of it lays there for a week or more before being collected.

The funny part of all this is, the lack of rubish bins - these have not been supplied by the local authority because they detract from the scenic nature of the river side. What a sick joke.

[sriracha john]

Associated Press

Out to lunch???

The Nation

His lunacy certainly didn't escape the attention of the international media.... portraying to the world what Thailand has elected...

Forget about no-confidence in his ability to govern well... it's now about no-confidence in his sanity...

medical verification....

Dr. Malinee says Samak not mentally fit as PM

Doctor Malinee Sukwenworakij, a Democrat Party-list MP, said Wednesday that Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej was not mentally fit to be in office.

She said Samak's behaviours showed that he lacked maturity and had low EQ and could not control his emotions.

She said the way Samak stared angrily at reporters showed that he had problems with his EQ.

- The Nation

[hammered]

Associated Press

Out to lunch???

The Nation

His lunacy certainly didn't escape the attention of the international media.... portraying to the world what Thailand has elected...

Forget about no-confidence in his ability to govern well... it's now about no-confidence in his sanity...

medical verification....

Dr. Malinee says Samak not mentally fit as PM

Doctor Malinee Sukwenworakij, a Democrat Party-list MP, said Wednesday that Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej was not mentally fit to be in office.

She said Samak's behaviours showed that he lacked maturity and had low EQ and could not control his emotions.

She said the way Samak stared angrily at reporters showed that he had problems with his EQ.

- The Nation

Guess we may also raise the lying or denial or whatever to do with that massacre and the "one dead" person, which probably showed the above some time ago.

[Meerkat]

It's going from the sublime to the ridiculous. A medical doctor now accusing him of being mentally unfit for the job, and that his "choice of food is bad as he ordered a sugary drink and a cake for a meal"! Nice comeback by Samak - questioning the ethics of her talking about a patient in public. Perhaps he's sharper than she thinks...

So what's really been achieved so far? The government's been attacked over the economy, something that on a macro level is largely out of its control in such a short period of time since taking office (but I agree that some mistakes have been made). It's been accused of selling part of Thailand to Cambodia, with questions being launched at the government by people at least one of whom hasn't even bothered to read up on the issue to any degree.* There's been the usual accusation of not being pro-Monarchy enough (odd considering his family's direct service to the Monarchy, and that it's considered there's a good chance that he'll join the Privy Council at some point in the future) , and now the mental health of the PM is brought into question along with his diet.

Where's the smoking-gun? There must be something bigger than all of this? If the Dems muck it up this time, surely they're just making it harder to unseat them the next time? I can't help feeling that they're trying to lull the government into a false sense of security on the motion, then will pull something huge out of the bag to nail 'em. Otherwise, they're in danger of looking as weak and as mismanaged as they're accusing the government of being.

* Dem MP Sirichok Sopha is quoted as saying (bolding mine), "ICJ ruled only the temple was under Cambodia's sovereignty and Thailand obligated to hand the ruin temple to Cambodia, not soil under and surrounding the ruin,". I find it hard to imagine any elected official making such a bizarre claim anyway, but had he bothered to give even a cursory glance at the ICJ judgement (pdf file), he might just have spotted:

"In its Judgment on the merits the Court, by nine votes to three

,found that the Temple of Preah Vihear was situated in

territory under the sovereignty of Cambodia and, in consequence,

that Thailand was under an obligation to withdraw

any military or police forces, or other guards or keepers, stationed

by her at the Temple, or in its vicinity on Cambodian

territory."

[Pierrot]

Good article on the BBC news website highlighting why Samak the clown is getting the receiption he's receiving now:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7471180.stm

Thanks steveromagnino and samran for your perspectives - always an interesting read.

Thank you for this intersting reading.

To summarize : The army learned its lesson and won't come back, the democrat don't have enough seat to do anything before the next election, there won't be new election any time soon, election are expensive, MP need time to refill their coffers first.

And the conclusion : " If Mr Samak is forced to go, it will probably be by his own party. But then he would likely be replaced by someone less independent from Thaksin Shinawatra ..."

The sooner people understand the PPP is here to stay, the better it will be for everybody.

Now I agree the government we have now is second rate. Therefore the sooner the 111 are allow back to power, the better for this country.

A professional investor told me some time ago that the difference between professionals and amateurs is professionals know when to take their loss and move ahead. It could be the difference between the democrats and the PAD ...

[sriracha john]

comeback by Samak - questioning the ethics of her talking about a patient in public.

So is Samak admitting that he is a mental health patient of the doctor???

[Meerkat]

comeback by Samak - questioning the ethics of her talking about a patient in public.

So is Samak admitting that he is a mental health patient of the doctor???

No, but she was treating (pun intended) him as one with her remarks.

[Insight]

comeback by Samak - questioning the ethics of her talking about a patient in public.

So is Samak admitting that he is a mental health patient of the doctor???

No, but she was treating (pun intended) him as one with her remarks.

So discussing Samak's mental health is completely off-limits?

Think we've all had chance to make our own amateur diagnosis anyhow.

[hammered]

It's going from the sublime to the ridiculous. A medical doctor now accusing him of being mentally unfit for the job, and that his "choice of food is bad as he ordered a sugary drink and a cake for a meal"! Nice comeback by Samak - questioning the ethics of her talking about a patient in public. Perhaps he's sharper than she thinks...

So what's really been achieved so far? The government's been attacked over the economy, something that on a macro level is largely out of its control in such a short period of time since taking office (but I agree that some mistakes have been made). It's been accused of selling part of Thailand to Cambodia, with questions being launched at the government by people at least one of whom hasn't even bothered to read up on the issue to any degree.* There's been the usual accusation of not being pro-Monarchy enough (odd considering his family's direct service to the Monarchy, and that it's considered there's a good chance that he'll join the Privy Council at some point in the future) , and now the mental health of the PM is brought into question along with his diet.

Where's the smoking-gun? There must be something bigger than all of this? If the Dems muck it up this time, surely they're just making it harder to unseat them the next time? I can't help feeling that they're trying to lull the government into a false sense of security on the motion, then will pull something huge out of the bag to nail 'em. Otherwise, they're in danger of looking as weak and as mismanaged as they're accusing the government of being.

* Dem MP Sirichok Sopha is quoted as saying (bolding mine), "ICJ ruled only the temple was under Cambodia's sovereignty and Thailand obligated to hand the ruin temple to Cambodia, not soil under and surrounding the ruin,". I find it hard to imagine any elected official making such a bizarre claim anyway, but had he bothered to give even a cursory glance at the ICJ judgement (pdf file), he might just have spotted:

"In its Judgment on the merits the Court, by nine votes to three

,found that the Temple of Preah Vihear was situated in

territory under the sovereignty of Cambodia and, in consequence,

that Thailand was under an obligation to withdraw

any military or police forces, or other guards or keepers, stationed

by her at the Temple, or in its vicinity on Cambodian

territory."

It is politcal point scoring as is every censure debate evrywhere where a party doesnt have the numbers to unseat the government. Also emotive issues like land arent consdiered on the case of a court by many ordinary people in any country. Its nationalism. Its used in many democratic and undemocratic countries by poltiicians especially actually in democratic ones where notionalism wins votes.

Same old game. Nothing changes.

[hammered]

comeback by Samak - questioning the ethics of her talking about a patient in public.

So is Samak admitting that he is a mental health patient of the doctor???

No, but she was treating (pun intended) him as one with her remarks.

So discussing Samak's mental health is completely off-limits?

Think we've all had chance to make our own amateur diagnosis anyhow.

She was actually quite polite compared to what people say about Samak down our local market. Hey even up in my wifes Thaksin loving village they think he is mad among other things........

Persoanlly I would rather he had to answer for his hideous public statement and outright lie about a certain massacre. then again better not consider his role in it

[^_^]

Yeah...the Democrats speech-performance in the no-confidence debate was a disappointment

The Democrats repeated each same "accusation" again and again (same accusation repeated by different Dem's Representatives for 8hrs straight yesterday!!!), most "accusations" were based on the "Preah Vihear" case and events which occurs during Taxsin's time in which whatever happened then couldn't really be held accountability on the present government (not without any solid proof & evidence to show that they are connected in some way).

On the Preah Vehear case, Noppadol got all the necessary "legal" ("latest up-to-date") documents and maps together; which easily countered each and every documents which the Dem's has provided in this case; even the latest map which the Dems were able to get their hands on were countered by Noppadol's latest-than-the-Dems-version map which was signed and approved by the necessary legal person concern (high ranking military officials).

Noppadol got the final say in the Preah Vehear case, and he closes the "debate-accusations" against him with a "Smirk" on his face and looked more like a hero

Today, most of the Dem's "accusations" are getting lower and lower...like "accusations" based on "Doubts about Samak's mental stability", "How Samak was born with his feets out first during birth"

At the end of the "debate-accusations" against Samak, it actually makes the Dem's look uglier than Samak, as if trying to topple Samak by low means and on the other way round, makes Samak looks like a Patriot fighting for the good of the country against these Dem's Devil

The Democrats performance-speech isn't going well is probably because they haven't got enough time to put together the required documents and to plan out their debate in advanced; as the decision of the debate was a sudden decision made by Samak and the date of the debate allows the Democrats only a few days to prepare.

Well...whatever the reason...the Democrats isn't going well in the no-confidence debate.

If the PAD is pinning their hope on the outcome of the debate to topple Samak...um...there's IMO...Not a chance!

Furthermore, I believe that the Democrats knew that they don't stand a chance, therefore, based on their speech-accusations, it seems to me like they are paving the path to get more "votes" (support) in the future elections rather than pinning their hope on winning this no-confidence debate.

Edited June 25, 2008 by ^_^

[hammered]

)-->

QUOTE ( @ 2008-06-25 17:46:52) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah...the Democrats speech-performance in the no-confidence debate was a disappointment

The Democrats repeated each same "accusation" again and again (same accusation repeated by different Dem's Representatives for 8hrs straight yesterday!!!), most "accusations" were based on the "Preah Vihear" case and events which occurs during Taxsin's time in which whatever happened then couldn't really be held accountability on the present government (not without any solid proof & evidence to show that they are connected in some way).

On the Preah Vehear case, Noppadol got all the necessary "legal" ("latest up-to-date") documents and maps together; which easily countered each and every documents which the Dem's has provided in this case; even the latest map which the Dems were able to get their hands on were countered by Noppadol's latest-than-the-Dems-version map which was signed and approved by the necessary legal person concern (high ranking military officials).

Noppadol got the final say in the Preah Vehear case, and he closes the "debate-accusations" against him with a "Smirk" on his face and looked more like a hero

Today, most of the Dem's "accusations" are getting lower and lower...like "accusations" based on "Doubts about Samak's mental stability", "How Samak was born with his feets out first during birth"

At the end of the "debate-accusations" against Samak, it actually makes the Dem's look uglier than Samak, as if trying to topple Samak by low means and on the other way round, makes Samak looks like a Patriot fighting for the good of the country against these Dem's Devil

The Democrats performance-speech isn't going well is probably because they haven't got enough time to put together the required documents and to plan out their debate in advanced; as the decision of the debate was a sudden decision made by Samak and the date of the debate allows the Democrats only a few days to prepare.

Well...whatever the reason...the Democrats isn't going well in the no-confidence debate.

If the PAD is pinning their hope on the outcome of the debate to topple Samak...um...there's IMO...Not a chance!

Politcal point scoring and also maybe an undercurrent of trying to show samak is not suitable for a certain other position he longs for.

Again the maps and legal stuff on the temple are meaningless to most of the electorate if they get a sudden surge of nationalism and decide it is really part of Thailand. Dangerous in a way but hey everyone plays nationalism with no justification these days and not justr inThailand.

[marshbags]

Breaking news item..The Nation

Chuan says Samak misinformed public about Preah Vihear issue

Democrat Party chief advisor Chuan Leekpai Wednesday attacked Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej for misinforming the public in the issue regarding to the Preah Vihear dispute between Thailand and Cambodia.

Chuan said Samak did not tell the truth when he said Thailand's lawyer, late Democrat Party leader Seni Pramoj, lost in the lawsuit over the ownership of Preah Vihear because he accepted French map during the trial.

Chuan said Seni had never accepted the map.

Chuan said Samak also incorrectly stated that the Democrat government did not take any action when Cambodians encroached on the disputed land at Preah Vihear Temple.

Chuan said the Democrat government did protest to the Cambodian government.

He said the Thai Rak Thai government instead failed to take any action during against the encroachers from 2001 to 2006.

The Nation

Unquote

How can the finger be pointed at the democrats ex amount of years ago as several posters are doing when it,s clearly not the case.

Sorry posters, but to re enforce a point of note it,s down to your beloved TRT who failed to take action as stated in 2001 and onwards.

We all know why the surrogate PPP and Thaksins alledged ex lawyer / representative did so now though don,t we.

marshbags

Edited June 25, 2008 by marshbags

[^_^]

Breaking news item..The Nation

Um...Chuan's and Abhisit's "accusations-debate" regarding the "Preah Vihear" thingy you quoted which took place earlier this afternoon, has been easily countered by Noppadol with "latest-up-to-date" legal(?) documents/maps signed-approved-guaranteed by a high-ranking-officials concern whom is in-charge for drawing and measuring the Preah Vihear boundaries.

Edit: sorry...misquoted...I wasn't referring to Chuan's counter-debate on Samak accusing Chuan thingy.

Edited June 25, 2008 by ^_^

[^_^]

She was actually quite polite compared to what people say about Samak down our local market. Hey even up in my wifes Thaksin loving village they think he is mad among other things........

Persoanlly I would rather he had to answer for his hideous public statement and outright lie about a certain massacre. then again better not consider his role in it

Well...Chuan did bring up the "accusation-debate" against Samak doing the interview with Al Jeera (spelling?) regarding the Tak Bai case.

Samak shrugged it off saying that he isn't discriminating anyone if he didn't know anything about the case in the first place, therefore, he is just saying what he knew from the media (newspaper/news/etc) regarding the Tak Bai case.

Then Chuan elaborates that since Samak admits that it was a mistake in what he told the reporter during the Al Jeera (spelling?) interview, Chuan "suggests" that Samak makes an apology-correction to the public as it may mostly help to ease the situation in the South Thailand.

And Samak countered by adding that, he shouldn't be held accountable for saying something which he don't "really" know and as he need to reply to a TV Interview as a Prime Minister, he just replied what he knew from the media.

Lastly, Samak politely thank Chuan for providing him the in-depth details regarding the Tak Bai case.

Samak is no doubt more intelligent (cunning) than his looks!

[Meerkat]

)-->

QUOTE ( @ 2008-06-25 18:53:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Samak is no doubt more intelligent (cunning) than his looks!

I agree (and I even think the Origami incident much mocked here and in the press was well thought out as well).

Having said that though, when he comes up with trash like:

"Samak told Al-Jazeera that 78 of some 1,300 arrested Muslim protesters died while being transported on military trucks to detention because "they fell on each other" after suffering from fatigue due to a long protest at the local police station "in that month, whatever its name, when people go fasting".

He looks like the next ignoramus...

[^_^]

I agree (and I even think the Origami incident much mocked here and in the press was well thought out as well).

Having said that though, when he comes up with trash like:

"Samak told Al-Jazeera that 78 of some 1,300 arrested Muslim protesters died while being transported on military trucks to detention because "they fell on each other" after suffering from fatigue due to a long protest at the local police station "in that month, whatever its name, when people go fasting".

He looks like the next ignoramus...

Yeah...I find what Samak said in his interview with Al-Jaazera was very provacative/offensive to a Muslim (I myself find it offensive though I'm not a Muslim); has he not consider what he said might cause the situation in South Thailand to worsen?

As for his IGNORANCE, there is ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT in that.

Throughout the no-confidence debate, every single time he took the stand, there WILL be a sentence added like "People of my type won't resort to......", "It's people like me whom could...", "If we were to go back to the old days...I would be rank as "important person title" and my wife would be rank "important person title", "It's people like me whom could be a PM...", "It people like me whom could get the current Government together and bring the country forward...", "referring himself as a born-Buddha (though he didn't say Buddha") himself because he was born feet-out first during birth and asked inquiry opposition party to inquiry monks as to who else born feet-out first (Buddha of course)...

All the above examples were used by Samak throughout the two days no-confidence debate.

[Plus]

From reports in the English press, Democrats actually have made quite a valid point regarding Phra Viharn - it't not the maps, it's de facto admission of Cambodia's ownership. Despite the court ruling Thailand has always reserved the right to a future challenge.

Some parts of the ruling state that the review must come within ten years, others don't give a time frame. As Democrats rightly said - Thai lawyers should quote parts favourable to Thailand while Noppadon argues as if he was working for Cambodians.

In case of Unesco listing, that means Thailand should co-sponsor the motion, not tag along. Last year Surayud's government didn't even want to listen to it, this year Thailand yielded all its barganing power and surrendered its long standing position.

Diplomatically it's a major disaster.

I don't think Dems talked about the economy yet, but with the ongoing fight between Commerce and Finance Ministries is a clear sign of the government's failure, independently of worsening global economy. There's also an ongoing attempts to topple Bank of Thailand Governor via undermining FIDF plan to sell Bank Thai. Samak himself told the nation on TV that the bank of "jeng" and caused a bit of a panic. Now they want to pin it on Tarisa as an excuse to remove her from her position.

>>>>

Democrats also publicly admitted that they have no chance of toppling Samak's government, they are just doing their duty. The debate is not about trying to sneak in the government via "back door".

[sriracha john]

Thumbs up for temple deal - Chim Pai Da Pai column, Phujatkan

The man says: To allow Cambodia to register the Preah Vihear temple as a World Heritage site is really a masterpiece work of Noppadol [Foreign Minister Noppadol Pattama]

The sign on the barbed wire reads: Cambodia [literally "Kampuchea" as Thais refer to the country]

At the bottom right: Yes, lots of people agree with it [in the background are hoards of wide-eyed Khmers dressed in army fatigues perhaps referencing the look of the Khmer Rouge. Also note they are wearing Khmer scarves.]

- 2Bangkok.com

[sriracha john]

Depictions around the world of Samak as a loose cannon on deck are plentiful...

Criticism mounts on Thai PM

Thailand's Prime Minister is facing a second day of criticism in Parliament as the country's opposition pursues a no confidence vote against him.

Despite saying he would wait until the very end to respond to the criticisms, Samak has stood up on a number of occasions to defend himself.

Samak's brash personality and his use of harsh language at times has also come into focus.

- ABC News (Australia)

Edited June 25, 2008 by sriracha john

[cloudhopper]

This is a link to today's Wall Street Journal article on the topic:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1214330759...nonsub_page_one

[^_^]

I think the media is playing along with the tune of the PAD as I think none of the media likes the interference of the current government

Usually I used to turn on ASTV News 1 the whole day, and watch the evening News on other channel everyday so as to get a different point of view. Since the No-Confidence debate started yesterday, I've been following it throughout the whole session and currently still watching the debate on Economy stuff, and hasn't been following the News or ASTV News 1 since yesterday.

The Democrats started off really well for the first 8hrs straight yesterday regarding "Preah Vihear" which nearly made me started thinking of maybe declare war on Cambodia (just kidding!!!) BUT once Noppadol took the stand, the Democrat's 8hr's grilling went straight down the drain; what/how could you oppose against SOLID Legal Documents/Maps signed and approve by Thai Government Officials themselves?

Regardless what the press/media reported, having followed every seconds of the No-Confidence debate, I'll have to say...the Democrats really seems to have no "REAL" issue to debate at all!!! last of all...it was Abhisit whom requested to end the debate on the Preah Vihear issue because after Noppadol has shown/provide all the LEGAL Documents, Abhisit and his MPs doesn't really have anything else to debate on the issue!

As for today regarding No-Confidence debate against the Finance Minister, not a good start to have a not very experience young MP to make a nearly 3hrs speech with slightly more than 2hrs are all the old issue about how Taxsin and his family hide/sell their shares that was already reported on all medias which nobody in Thailand doesn't know of, and spent the last 30mins in closing his speech by reprimanding the current Finance Minister for not doing his job to look into such matters + not assigning the appropriate person to it's appropriate post related to handling the country Finance matters.

Well...ended up the Finance Minister took only 30-35mins to counter-debate which made him looks like Bill Gate 2 in the making

I have always supported the Democrats for their stance in not taking the bait to switch sides for their own benefits. Frankly speaking, I'm not too happy with their low-means way in the Debate against Samak and they should have been better prepared + finding better gound/issues for the debate.

Sadly, on the contrary, this debate has now become a stage for PPP to report/demonstrate/lie about how much "GOOD" they have done for the country

Edited June 25, 2008 by ^_^

[Meerkat]

From reports in the English press, Democrats actually have made quite a valid point regarding Phra Viharn - it't not the maps, it's de facto admission of Cambodia's ownership. Despite the court ruling Thailand has always reserved the right to a future challenge.

Some parts of the ruling state that the review must come within ten years, others don't give a time frame. As Democrats rightly said - Thai lawyers should quote parts favourable to Thailand while Noppadon argues as if he was working for Cambodians.

In case of Unesco listing, that means Thailand should co-sponsor the motion, not tag along. Last year Surayud's government didn't even want to listen to it, this year Thailand yielded all its barganing power and surrendered its long standing position.

Nope. If you look at my attributed post here, you'll see that it was Surayud's Junta that stated that Cambodia could (and indeed should) sponsor appointment to World Heritage status on her own. It was also the Junta that said that it should be done before next month's WH committee meeting, which should (but won't) put the rumours that it was a rush job in order for Thaksin to benefit, into a proper perspective.

The ICJ statute is here (and refreshingly concise). It states (Article 60) that its decision is final and without appeal. Article 61 states that a review may only be made in certain circumstances, and only within 10 years of the original judgement.

What Abhisit has been trying to show that supports Thailand's permission to review the judgement is the second sentence of Article 60, "In the event of dispute as to the meaning or scope of the judgement, the Court shall construe it upon the request of any party." This is not grounds for an appeal; this is simply grounds to explain the original judgement which still stands. Thus the Temple was de jure lost in 1962 (and de facto lost in 1972 after any grounds for review lapsed). AFAIK Thailand has never asked the ICJ for a clarification (note: not appeal) so it becomes even harder to try and maintain the view that suddenly such a right to appeal has been given up by the present government.

The Ministry of Foreign affairs printed an article in Matichon in March (translated on their site) that states that the then (Democrat) Foreign Minister Thanat Khoman sent a Note to the UN in 1962 signifying that Thailand accepted that the Temple was on Cambodian soil, and that the then Cabinet concurred (I can't find any official verification of these statements). This would appear to be in contradiction to what Abhisit has been saying (although I'd rather find verification than believe just what the MFA claims).

What hasn't yet been sorted out is the larger area of land outside the temple grounds. This has been in contention forever and continues to be deliberated upon by both nations. This is where the confusion may occur; the site to be nominated to WH status only contains the Temple itself, but not the land outside the grounds.

Even if somehow in the future legitimate grounds to try and overturn the 1962 judgement (the one that's final and without appeal after 10 years) magically appeared, the UNESCO convention (pdf) states that (Article 11, clause 3), “The inclusion of a property situated in a territory, sovereignty or jurisdiction over which is claimed by more than one State shall in no way prejudice the rights of the parties to the dispute.” So again, the claim that Cambodia's nominating the Temple as a WH Site suddenly negates Thailand's right to appeal (which doesn't exist anyway as I've explained), is a canard.

Diplomatically it's a major disaster.

Agreed, but by whom? The Junta and then the PPP who have been continuously talking to Cambodia on the subject for the last two years, or the PAD and the Dems who've blown it up into a "You're giving away our country" moment?