Security Tightens At Government House To Block Anti-govt Protesters

[scyriacus]

ever seen 'democrazy' in a 'kindergarden'?

[Herbs]

ever seen 'democrazy' in a 'kindergarden'?

Ah yes, very good point. Chucking the toys out of the pram! That is really what it looks like to me. It is sad and pathetic. I think one of the culprits is the censorship laws. I am very weary of what I type for fear (well, I don't care to be honest), of being banned. How do Thais feel?

[plachon]

Going back to the comments made yesterday by Chavalit about installing an interim govt., I can't understand why the media give his opinions such prominence. After all, when he was PM, everyone was speculating whether he had Alzheimer's Disease or not, and it was a fairly close call. Since then, under TRT and his role as Mr Solve Poverty he became increasingly erratic and irrelevant and lived up to his reputation as a doolally clown at most media shots. The guy acts and thinks like a dinosaur, but still gets big attention from the media.

The question is, does Chavalit speak for himself, or is he used as a conduit for other's opinions, like Prem perhaps? Given the spilt between Prem and Toxin, but Chavlait's buddiness and loyalty to the latter, is he a go-between with a foot in both camps? Somebody please explain where Chavalit stands on the chessboard, as I can't see a clown piece in my chess set?

And do the media do the Thai people a dis-service by reporting his spoutings?

Chavalit the hero of Ban Rom Khlao and the hero of 1997 is famous for being utterly unintelligible and as you say there has been speculation. He has been close to Thaksin for ages having donated a hundred or so unbeatable sitting Isaan MPs to the TRT crusade. He has since 2005 been slightly critical of Thaksin and claimed he didnt learn, but all quite mild stuff. Chavalit was also one of the "sons of Prem" and has seemingly kept the tightrope walk going.

As to his suggestions, personally I thought the national unity government was a good idea. However, who does he speak for. It could be seen as testing the waters or floating an idea that could come from one wing of the Thaksinistas. Chavalit was according to some approached to lead PPP befor Samak but declined due to Thaksins intransigence. He could also be floating his own idea of national unity government led by no other than yes you guessed it old Chavalit himself. He would no doubt rather be remembered as a saviour during a time of crisis rather than the one who led the country over the 1997 precipice and we better not talk about Ban Rom Khlao.

Shoudl the press give his ramblings prominence. Well why not if they are good ideas. Nobody else seems to suggest anything much. The flip side is that while these days he is good for a quote or good to mount his charger in some fantasy of saving the nation, he is rarely listened to and lacks much power with any group. Still I liked his ideas this time and to be honest even if he were a bit doolally he would be eminently preferable to Samak.

Chess Piece. Knight I guess.

Thanks for your insights Hammered. Basically, it would seem that Chavalit could basically be a mouthpiece for either side or possibly a loose cannon who the media like to humour with an audience once in a while (maybe he hands out white envelopes post interview?). Although the idea of a national unity government would be marvelous in theory, I personally think the gulf between the parties is now too wide for any such govt to last more than a few weeks, before they all started throwing mud pies at each other and stormed out/boycotted parliament. However, that is not that much different from the present undemocratic situation, but the point is it would be doomed to failure before it started.

Clearly something much more radical and fundamental is needed to solved the current impasse and Chavalit has never spoken as an impartial party I believe, so he is one of the last people I think can offer a sensible solution at this time. Only a few weeks ago Anand Pan. said he's more or less given up on Thai politics and his message was v.bleak. I think that is far more in touch with reality and without a thorough (non-violent, judicial preferably) cleansing of the current mob followed by a total overhaul of the constitution, then I fear things will not move forward but be continually mired in crony capitalism and phoney democracy of the sort seen over last few decades.

Don't like the knight analogy, as he's well past the time when he can mount a donkey, let alone a charger!

[plachon]

The real battle is about him, his money and who will dominate Thailand:all the rest is irrelevant clutter.

A short while ago YH snorted at people who said exactly the same thing, he propagated complexities and social forces and elites pitched against each other and rising democracy and what not.

The two aspects are not inconsistent, and in fact reinforce each other.

Is that an admission you were wrong to pretend we were wrong to keep the focus firmly on Toxin all along, while the likes of yourself, Colpycat, Chownah et al., said "move on, he's no longer relevant" or "you're obsessed SRJ/Tony/etc, get over it"? At least we are on the same page, now that "all the rest is irrelevant clutter". However, I do think that is a bit extreme, but I understand what you're getting at.

[Richard W]

thailand is confusing. looking in from the outside, you don't know if they are a monarchy, or a democracy.

It's a constitutional monarchy, a well established form of democratic government in temperate lands.

[nick2k]

More than 3,000 protesters led by Chamlong confront police at Nang Loeng Intersection

BANGKOK: -- More than 3,000 protesters led by Chamlong Srimuang confront anti-riot police at the Nang Loeng Intersection at 12:15 pm.

Chamlong led a about 2,000 protesters to push through a police barricade at the Saommanas Temple and joined another group of protesters the intersection. More protesters joined them at the spot.

Police use 8 trucks and rails to block the road.

-- The Nation 2008-06-20

Security tightens at Government House to block anti-govt protesters

BANGKOK: -- Thousands of police officers have barricaded roads around Government House to block anti-government protestors from moving in to besiege the government seat Friday afternoon, aimed at pressureing the elected government to resign.

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej, who also serves as defence minister, earlier pledged to refrain from using force against the protesters.

Friday morning the premier was attending a meeting at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in preparation for the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) summit.

Meanwhile, Finance and Deputy Prime Minister Surapong Suebwonglee reportedly shifted the venue of a meeting from Government House to the Ministry of Finance in an apparent bid to avoid confrontation with the demonstrators.

Other cabinet members are nowhere to be seen, and some government civil servants have opted to stay at home in fear of possible violence.

Security around Government House has been tightened with uniformed police manning the barricades along all routes to the government seat.

The anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and its supporters have been demonstrating since May 25 in a bid to pressure the four-month-old coalition government to resign, claiming that Mr. Samak and his People Power Party are proxies of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Army Chief Anupong Paochinda said earlier that the army would not get involved or use force against the crowds.

"It's the police who will take charge," said the Army chief. "I'm sure they have proper measures to handle the situation."

Police Chief Pol.Gen. Patcharawat Wongsuwan said the police would use only non-violent measures and exercise the utmost patience.

Concerns that the PAD-led protests could turn violent spooked investors who unloaded their stocks over the past three weeks.

Thai stock index opened lower Friday at 737.83, down 4.63 points.

The Stock Exchange of Thailand's president Patareeya Benjapolchai on Thursday conceded the SET composite index went into a free fall upon investor concerns over the persistent gathering of anti-government demonstrators.

She said rising inflation and upward interest trend also made investors jittery and slow their investment in the stock market, opting instead to sell off shares to reduce risks while they monitor the situation.

--TNA 2008-06-20

my 2 cents...

the reason for all the turmoil is because - energy is causing thailand (and the world for that matter) headaches. oil is the culprit. no party whether it be the PPP or the Democrats can resolve the problems as long as energy is coming from outside. the thai people need to unite to resolve this problem with energy.

how? ...well, that is the big question.

but this internal fighting is not helping any. it just delays finding a solution.

get this. as I see it, the energy problem is going to get worse. the thai people better put their think caps on because nobody else is going to help them. all this internal fighting between PAD, PPP, Demos - imho, it's really just suicide.

[Artisi]

More than 3,000 protesters led by Chamlong confront police at Nang Loeng Intersection

BANGKOK: -- More than 3,000 protesters led by Chamlong Srimuang confront anti-riot police at the Nang Loeng Intersection at 12:15 pm.

Chamlong led a about 2,000 protesters to push through a police barricade at the Saommanas Temple and joined another group of protesters the intersection. More protesters joined them at the spot.

Police use 8 trucks and rails to block the road.

-- The Nation 2008-06-20

Security tightens at Government House to block anti-govt protesters

BANGKOK: -- Thousands of police officers have barricaded roads around Government House to block anti-government protestors from moving in to besiege the government seat Friday afternoon, aimed at pressureing the elected government to resign.

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej, who also serves as defence minister, earlier pledged to refrain from using force against the protesters.

Friday morning the premier was attending a meeting at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in preparation for the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) summit.

Meanwhile, Finance and Deputy Prime Minister Surapong Suebwonglee reportedly shifted the venue of a meeting from Government House to the Ministry of Finance in an apparent bid to avoid confrontation with the demonstrators.

Other cabinet members are nowhere to be seen, and some government civil servants have opted to stay at home in fear of possible violence.

Security around Government House has been tightened with uniformed police manning the barricades along all routes to the government seat.

The anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and its supporters have been demonstrating since May 25 in a bid to pressure the four-month-old coalition government to resign, claiming that Mr. Samak and his People Power Party are proxies of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Army Chief Anupong Paochinda said earlier that the army would not get involved or use force against the crowds.

"It's the police who will take charge," said the Army chief. "I'm sure they have proper measures to handle the situation."

Police Chief Pol.Gen. Patcharawat Wongsuwan said the police would use only non-violent measures and exercise the utmost patience.

Concerns that the PAD-led protests could turn violent spooked investors who unloaded their stocks over the past three weeks.

Thai stock index opened lower Friday at 737.83, down 4.63 points.

The Stock Exchange of Thailand's president Patareeya Benjapolchai on Thursday conceded the SET composite index went into a free fall upon investor concerns over the persistent gathering of anti-government demonstrators.

She said rising inflation and upward interest trend also made investors jittery and slow their investment in the stock market, opting instead to sell off shares to reduce risks while they monitor the situation.

--TNA 2008-06-20

my 2 cents...

the reason for all the turmoil is because - energy is causing thailand (and the world for that matter) headaches. oil is the culprit. no party whether it be the PPP or the Democrats can resolve the problems as long as energy is coming from outside. the thai people need to unite to resolve this problem with energy.

how? ...well, that is the big question.

but this internal fighting is not helping any. it just delays finding a solution.

get this. as I see it, the energy problem is going to get worse. the thai people better put their think caps on because nobody else is going to help them. all this internal fighting between PAD, PPP, Demos - imho, it's really just suicide.

Think you are way off the beam, your statement sounds more like that of a Thai politician trying to cover his *rse. Sure the rising fuel price is a major world problem at the moment but we will survive whereas corruption, either real or percieved together with arrogant bent politicians is the root cause of todays problems in Thailand pure and simple.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Artisi

[younghusband]

The real battle is about him, his money and who will dominate Thailand:all the rest is irrelevant clutter.

A short while ago YH snorted at people who said exactly the same thing, he propagated complexities and social forces and elites pitched against each other and rising democracy and what not.

The two aspects are not inconsistent, and in fact reinforce each other.

Is that an admission you were wrong to pretend we were wrong to keep the focus firmly on Toxin all along, while the likes of yourself, Colpycat, Chownah et al., said "move on, he's no longer relevant" or "you're obsessed SRJ/Tony/etc, get over it"? At least we are on the same page, now that "all the rest is irrelevant clutter". However, I do think that is a bit extreme, but I understand what you're getting at.

I think you are completely misinterpreting the discussion.The battle lines now are all about Thaksin and what he stands for.The "what he stands for" part is important while recognising the real defects of the man himself.There is a struggle for power going on.The Thai educated classes and the politically aware know exactly what this means as do a relatively few on this forum.May I suggest you broaden your information sources since to rely entirely on this forum would be highly misleading.It is in fact a great drama, almost in the Shakespearian sense.

My issue with the Thaksin obsessives is really their unwillingness to debate and argue, and the general puerility of their contributions.There is a kind of dishonesty as well in those who post hundred of articles but never one which is contary to their view or even ambiguous.I don't know what motivates these people.There is one honourable exception who disagrees with almost everything I say but at least has an intellect, good background and context.I won't embarass him by naming him.I will name Hammered who though generally disagreeing with me is free of dogmatism and thoughtful.

Edited June 23, 2008 by younghusband

[clausewitz]

well when i was there and left at about 8pm there were nowhere near 100,000 people more like 10,000 -15,000 if that

ASTV said 100,000 and as Tony Clifton says they are reliable (and completely neutral). They are the purveyors of truth in Thailand.

Just because they are owned by Sondhi, the leader of PAD, and rant continually against the current government and Thaksin, don't think for a moment they are not neutral Oh and did I mention they are the holders of truth and justice in Thailand.

Edited June 23, 2008 by clausewitz

[sriracha john]

well when i was there and left at about 8pm there were nowhere near 100,000 people more like 10,000 -15,000 if that

ASTV said 100,000 and as Tony Clifton says they are reliable (and completely neutral).

If you are going to quote what another poster says without using the quote function, please, at least, be honest about what they post. Thank you.

As for the numbers themselves, a sampling:

"100,000"

- Kyodo News (Japan)

"One hundred thousand"

- Guardian (UK)

"100,000"

- New York Times (USA)

[younghusband]

well when i was there and left at about 8pm there were nowhere near 100,000 people more like 10,000 -15,000 if that

ASTV said 100,000 and as Tony Clifton says they are reliable (and completely neutral).

If you are going to quote what another poster says without using the quote function, please, at least, be honest about what they post. Thank you.

As for the numbers themselves, a sampling:

"100,000"

- Kyodo News (Japan)

"One hundred thousand"

- Guardian (UK)

"100,000"

- New York Times (USA)

Actually I have just been reading the Guardian report of 21 June which refers to "twenty five thousand rather than the hundred thousand the organisers expected."Yes you are right the number "one hundred thousand" appears in the quote.

What was that you were saying about being honest, PettyOfficer SRJ?

[Meerkat]

Actually I have just been reading the Guardian report of 21 June which refers to "twenty five thousand rather than the hundred thousand the organisers expected."Yes you are right the number "one hundred thousand" appears in the quote.

What was that you were saying about being honest, PettyOfficer SRJ?

Yeah you beat me to it; after finding the same Guardian article, I was looking for the other two cited to put them in context too (but was unable to find them).

SRJ, we're used to your selective posting of press articles to bolster your argument. Congrats - you've managed to take it to a whole new level!

[sriracha john]

I stand corrected, Elitist YH.

The 100,000 from Guardian was from a March 2006 article on a PAD rally at that time. With so many links on the search, I was less than absolutely diligent in making sure. The other references, however, were in regards to the current rally.

So we can remove that specific Guardian link and replace it with:

"100,000"

- Al-Jazeera (Qatar)

Hopefully clausewitz can return to make a similar clarification.

[sriracha john]

steady on, meerkat... and see above.

[george]

Drunken police briefly detained by PAD guards

BANGKOK: -- A policeman was briefly detained by guards of the People's Alliance for Democracy and handed over to his boss after he drank and walked into the rally ground early Monday.

Pol Sgt-Maj Charas Thaichaina walked into the crowd of protesters at 12:10 am to complain that he had been deployed to watch over the protesters for three straight days without a break to return home to visit his wife and children.

He told the guard that he missed his family a lot and he had to drink during a brief break.

The guards took him into their custody because he did not carry his police ID card although he was in uniform and carried his shield.

He was sent back to his superior.

-- The Nation 2008-06-23

[pumpuiman]

From the Bangkok Post

The hijacking of Thai democracy

STREET PROTESTS

THITINAN PONGSUDHIRAK

The anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) is going for the jugular. Now in its fourth week of street protests, PAD laid siege to Government House over the weekend, declaring victory but refusing to go home.

It now intends to prevent the People Power party-led government of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej from returning to its seat of power, as if such an act is sufficient for government resignation en masse.

Every step along the way since it retook the streets several weeks ago, PAD has provoked heavy-handed government responses in order to create the conditions for an extra-constitutional, extra-parliamentary intervention.

PAD has grossly distorted and manipulated news and events to its own ends, launching character assassinations and criticism of anyone who posits opposing and contrarian views, all in the name of ''rescuing the nation''.

In so doing, PAD has ironically morphed into the very object of condemnation on which it initially built its reputation. Prior to his ouster in a military coup in September 2006, former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was roundly despised and rejected for his influence over and outright capture of political institutions and constitutional mechanisms. In other words, he monopolised Thai politics so completely that it engendered extra-parliamentary street demonstrations that paved the way for extra-constitutional change.

PAD is now hijacking Thai democracy in the same fashion that Mr Thaksin's authoritarian tendencies and political party machine monopolised it. The extremist movement tolerates no dissent. It is either PAD's way or the wrong way, which ranges from pro-Thaksin accusations and lack of loyalty to the throne to questions of patriotism.

more here

[Losangels]

Drunken police briefly detained by PAD guards

The guards took him into their custody because he did not carry his police ID card although he was in uniform and carried his shield.

-- The Nation 2008-06-23

Drunk and was in uniform, and I would have to assumed "armed",

not a reputable image of BIB but hey TIT

[hammered]

From the Bangkok Post

The hijacking of Thai democracy

STREET PROTESTS

THITINAN PONGSUDHIRAK

The anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) is going for the jugular. Now in its fourth week of street protests, PAD laid siege to Government House over the weekend, declaring victory but refusing to go home.

It now intends to prevent the People Power party-led government of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej from returning to its seat of power, as if such an act is sufficient for government resignation en masse.

Every step along the way since it retook the streets several weeks ago, PAD has provoked heavy-handed government responses in order to create the conditions for an extra-constitutional, extra-parliamentary intervention.

PAD has grossly distorted and manipulated news and events to its own ends, launching character assassinations and criticism of anyone who posits opposing and contrarian views, all in the name of ''rescuing the nation''.

In so doing, PAD has ironically morphed into the very object of condemnation on which it initially built its reputation. Prior to his ouster in a military coup in September 2006, former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was roundly despised and rejected for his influence over and outright capture of political institutions and constitutional mechanisms. In other words, he monopolised Thai politics so completely that it engendered extra-parliamentary street demonstrations that paved the way for extra-constitutional change.

PAD is now hijacking Thai democracy in the same fashion that Mr Thaksin's authoritarian tendencies and political party machine monopolised it. The extremist movement tolerates no dissent. It is either PAD's way or the wrong way, which ranges from pro-Thaksin accusations and lack of loyalty to the throne to questions of patriotism.

more here

Worth reading in its entirety. He is also quite scathing of the government and the bit speculating on the military maybe not being so united is worrying and something not recently discussed. It seems the tone of the pieces now being written is getting more pessimistic.

[Meerkat]

I stand corrected, Elitist YH.

The 100,000 from Guardian was from a March 2006 article on a PAD rally at that time. With so many links on the search, I was less than absolutely diligent in making sure. The other references, however, were in regards to the current rally.

So we can remove that specific Guardian link and replace it with:

"100,000"

- Al-Jazeera (Qatar)

Hopefully clausewitz can return to make a similar clarification.

Odd. The latest report about the protests on AlJazeera.net that I could find quotes:

"At least 25,000 demonstrators from the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) surrounded government offices on Friday and about 5,000 of them remained a day later." and later in the article:

"Police said 25,000 protesters had been present at rallies on Friday, but by Saturday afternoon the number had dwindled to 5,000."

Now you might well be able to quote an article which states 100,000, but considering the most recent article there has seemingly revised those figures, you'd be guilty of selective quoting to further your own argument. IMO it's intellectually dishonest - YMMV.

It would have been clearer had you linked to the articles rather than just quoting them (or stated that they were TV/Radio).

I happen to agree with you that Clausewitz should have quoted TC's earlier post to make clear what was actually said, and what was his opinion (but what do you reckon TC meant with the word I've bolded in his quote below (photo removed)? Reliable for the veracity of its reports, or reliable for some other reason?)

Thaksin is busy redesigning the new Man City crest no doubt.

Chanel 3 has apparently reported a crowd of 20 000, and, hold on, hundreds dead. Ridiculous attempts at scaring away more who want to join.

is there a reliable news source to confirm this?

ASTV is a reliable news source.

Clausewitz's main point that ASTV is owned by the founding father of the PAD is still valid, and his implication (at least in my eyes) that it therefore cannot offer the impartiality that (again in my eyes) TC's post implied is important. I enjoy ASTV - it's the best English language channel for Thai news I've yet found - but I have no doubts where its editorial bent lies. Nor should anyone else who values truth over rhetoric.

steady on, meerkat... and see above.

I meant no offense personally - just trying to point out the bias of your argument. If I had inadvertently offended you I apologize.

[hammered]

All them numbers games are the propoganda war. who will win it. Official numbers aim low and organiser numbers aim high. News media these days usually report offical numbers especially international media who often have no or just one reporter present. As rule of thumb we used say double the police number and halve the organisers number to get something about right. Funny thing is if you do that you often get the same number. Better reproting would probably use a vague several tens of thousands but these days both sides feel the urge to big or small it up and so compete to get their numbers in the media.

Trying to estimate numbers without a high position is also pretty difficult. The Frdiay demo would also have been complicated by demonstrators coming from at least 4 directions etc. But anyway the news cycle has moved on now even if we on TV want to continue the deabte!

[sriracha john]

Good points all, hammered. The Al Jazeera number was from Post #286 of this very thread so not difficult to find, but just as hammered states, it's often all no more than propaganda from all sides. In the older PAD threads, it always seemed to be a highly contentious point for colpyat to go on and on about and actually, two years later, it's a rather tired discussion. Suffice to say, "a whole bunch of people" participated if that will satisfy everyone.

Edited June 23, 2008 by sriracha john

[Tony Clifton]

Drunken police briefly detained by PAD guards

BANGKOK: -- A policeman was briefly detained by guards of the People's Alliance for Democracy and handed over to his boss after he drank and walked into the rally ground early Monday.

Pol Sgt-Maj Charas Thaichaina walked into the crowd of protesters at 12:10 am to complain that he had been deployed to watch over the protesters for three straight days without a break to return home to visit his wife and children.

He told the guard that he missed his family a lot and he had to drink during a brief break.

The guards took him into their custody because he did not carry his police ID card although he was in uniform and carried his shield.

He was sent back to his superior.

-- The Nation 2008-06-23

Priceless.

[BigSnake]

If I may weigh in with my Two cents worth, as I said before I truly believe cool head will prevail and all will end well. Over the weekend, so far so good. One have to give credit to Khun Chamlong Srimunang and the rest of the PAD leadership for keep the crowd under control. Love or hate the PAD, they have been peaceful thus far.

[Plus]

Cool heads might prevail IN THE END, but the end is nowhere near.

I think this country's politics have no hope, though, not until a completely new generation takes over that won't have the luggage of current problems, and it's far from certain that the new generation will be any better.

They might eventually let smart people rise to the top, even under TRT/PPP patronage, but I won't bet on it. Besides, global economy doesn't leave space for decades of brooding and uncertainty, if you fall off the train - it's gone, there's no climbing back. Thais should keep in mind the fate of Philippines, but maybe it's called "fate" for a reason - it seems that people here are hel_l bound on screwing their own country no matter what you do or say.

[sriracha john]

These are trying times for all...

Drunken Riot Police Officer Complains to PAD about Lack of Rest

Late last night, a minor chaos broke out at the People’s Alliance for Democracy rally in front of Government House when a drunken riot police in full uniform approached the protesters.

The officer complained to the protesters that he’s been on duty for three consecutive days and misses his family.

Chaos broke out at the People's Alliance for Democracy stage late last night when the protesters spotted a police officer in full riot gear approach the rally. It was later discovered that the officer was intoxicated.

Security volunteers at the PAD rally took the police officer into custody. He’s been identified as Police Sergeant Major Jaras Chaichana of the Plubplachai police station.

The officer was still in his police uniform and equipped with a helmet, baton and a tear gas canister. A security volunteer explained that they had to take the officer into custody because of his apparent intoxication. However, he sympathized with the police officer who’s been on duty for an extended period of time.

Police Sergeant Major Jaras said he did not mean to create chaos or harm the PAD protesters. He admitted that he was drunk and claimed he was driven to drinking because of the stress of watching over the PAD rally for three days and three nights, without any breaks to go home to his family.

The officer said he’s suffering from so much stress that he’s thinking about quitting the police force.

- Thailand Outlook

[nick2k]

Think you are way off the beam, your statement sounds more like that of a Thai politician trying to cover his *rse. Sure the rising fuel price is a major world problem at the moment but we will survive whereas corruption, either real or percieved together with arrogant bent politicians is the root cause of todays problems in Thailand pure and simple.

I stand by my analysis of the situation.

all these current problems seem to be arising from financial problems that started with the rise in oil prices. the previous coup leaders couldn't resolve the problem because it is out of their hands. thailand does not control the oil prices. the current PPP leadership (if you can call it that.) hasn't been able to do anything about it too - BECAUSE once again it is out of their hands. THAILAND DOES NOT CONTROL THE OIL PRICES.

if I recall, people in the PPP during the past few months have suggested a number of solutions to the oil crises, and the thais basically laughed it off. REMEMBER the talk of the bike paths? remember the call to ride bicycles? so, what happens? NOTHING! the thais still drive their stupid cars on the streets causing traffic jams like there is no problem with oil.

in the past few months, the price of oil has increased dramatically. as a result, the farmers, the truckers, EVERYBODY is complaining about it. and expecting the PPP government to resolve the problem. so, the PPP comes up with the idea of building nuclear plants. the people still complain. they want a solution to the energy problem NOW!

so, the protests start up again. and NOW - NOBODY is working to resolve the oil crisis. both parties are busy fighting each other.

IS this going to resolve the oil crisis? the way things are going, nothing is going to get resolved. the truckers will still have the problem with oil. the farmers will still have the problem with oil. and the stupid people (I won't say who.) are still driving their cars down the street like nothing is wrong.

...let's look at it another way.

if there were no oil crisis, do you think the truckers would still go on strike? would the farmers be asking for the government to help them with their loans? would the workers in bangkok be asking for salary increases to help them out with INCREASING food prices?

if people had all their basic needs taken care of, would they still be as mad as they are now against the PPP?

my guess is - no.

..you would be busy having fun. like the way it was BEFORE the oil crisis.

[Moonrakers]

SNIP: SAMRAN

..you would be busy having fun. like the way it was BEFORE the oil crisis.

And so corruption, attempting to change the constitution without referendum, alledged vote buying, incompetence, only passing 1 bill in 4 months and alledgedly acting as a proxy for Thaksin have nothing to do with the current protests then???

[nick2k]

And so corruption, attempting to change the constitution without referendum, alledged vote buying, incompetence, only passing 1 bill in 4 months and alledgedly acting as a proxy for Thaksin have nothing to do with the current protests then???

if you have plenty of money in your pocket to spend, food on the table, plenty of pretty girls to look at, and many friends to hang out with, would you even bother? would you even care?

[Moonrakers]

And so corruption, attempting to change the constitution without referendum, alledged vote buying, incompetence, only passing 1 bill in 4 months and alledgedly acting as a proxy for Thaksin have nothing to do with the current protests then???

if you have plenty of money in your pocket to spend, food on the table, plenty of pretty girls to look at, and many friends to hang out with, would you even bother? would you even care?

Well you'll find that the PAD are mainly middle classed and therefore do have all of the above, and they certainly seem to care.

[nick2k]

when you are busy having fun, you really don't care. you have better things to do than go on a protest.

which means....

that even the middle class thai people are feeling the affects of the oil crisis.

..don't tell me that the price of gasoline rising from 14 baht to 40+ baht per liter is not getting them pissed. cooking oil

has increased from 29 baht to 55 baht. rice has risen from 90 baht to more than 250 baht. EVERYTHING is more expensive.

even if you are making 70,000 baht a month salary, you will feel it if you lose 30,000 baht to higher prices. even 20,000

baht will get you pissed. that's 20,000 baht that could have been spent on a new car, or taking a vacation overseas.