Gasohol For My Bike?

[AsiaCheese]

Besides the standard 91 and 95 octane soups, there's a growing variety of "versions" on offer at gas stations now. I've read the words "gasohol" and "ethanol", but many of the descriptions are written in Thai, and I can't read curlies...

Any idea whether my Yahama Fino would run on anything but "standard" 91 or 95 octane? And if not -- what consequences should I expect after having gone to the wrong pump?

[dotcom]

Ever consider asking the dealer that sold it to you?

[T_Dog]

One or two times running gasohol won't hurt anything. The problem with older machines is that the tubing and adhesives and plastic parts like carb floats may not withstand the solvent action of alcohol. I don't think it is a problem with detonation, but the experts can chime in if it is. When gasohol came out first in the USA, I used it entirely for four years in a truck until the carb float adhesive dissolved and it had to be replaced. It is a good idea to ask your dealer, especially if it is under warranty.

[goldfish]

Ignore the dealer, he probably wont know or care. Basically, if you really have no choice then use it, overwise don't. There are numerous threads concerning gashol, have a search

[PeaceBlondie]

dotcom is right, you can ask your dealer. Or, read your manual because the permissible fuels are probably shown clearly on the cover.

At least they are on new Honda owners' manuals. My new Honda even has an E10 decal on the gas tank. If in doubt, use benzene. At least up here in the north, that is the first word they ask for at the pump, either benzene or gasohol. Alcohol is not the word they use.

[sysmaster]

Older bikes will certainly not like Gasohol, my steed ('93) is "grounded" due to Gasohol.

Fuel lines, gasket in the tank valve, and possibly some parts in the carbureter are

damaged.

[Briggsy]

The rental garage I used recently filled up the Nouvo I rented with gasohol. I queried it. He said it did not matter. It's his bike!

You do know it's all colour coded so the benzene (gas/petrol) 91 pump always has a red sticker and so on. I'm afraid I can't remember the other colours off the top of my head.

[Khon Baan Nok]

The rental garage I used recently filled up the Nouvo I rented with gasohol. I queried it. He said it did not matter. It's his bike!

You do know it's all colour coded so the benzene (gas/petrol) 91 pump always has a red sticker and so on. I'm afraid I can't remember the other colours off the top of my head.

Yellow is gasoline 95.

Orange is gasohol 95.

[MaiChai]

I put gasahol 91 in my old Yamaha Belle R yesterday; guy at the petrol station said it was ok (so much to trusting a Thai). Well this bike is almost indestructible and the parts are easily available so will just have to fix it if bits in the carb melt? Thing is the price difference is 36 baht versus 42 baht per litre, so quite a difference and a real incentive to try out gasahol.

From a technical perspective, the rubber bits from the tank to cylinder are:

-Fuel pipes.

-Suction style fuel pump (uses vacume from the engine). I have had this apart two times and its still going strong 13 years on! Uses a rubber membrane to pump the fuel.

-Float valve.

-Float.

All these are easy to replace.

Also noticed the 91 gasahol is yellow coloured compared to the regular benzine which is red.

[PeaceBlondie]

I am getting the same mileage out of gasohol 91 as with benzene 91. About 35 or 36 km per liter, driving hard. Cannot notice any difference in power output. I refer to save 4 or 5 baht per liter.

[SilverShadow]

there's this guy on a forum i'm a member of who recommends adding acetone to his fuel. of course he's running it in a suzuki car. he claims he gets better mileage and better performance. i still haven't mustered up the courage to try it in my ford or either of my 2 bikes.

[MaiChai]

I was in Chakuchak yesterday and fuel was almost empty; dropped into a PTT and they had no 91 regular benzine; I mean they did not have a pump for it. Pump attendant told me gashol 91 same; I replied not same. Anyway was low so put this gashol in my Yamaha TZR150, and the bike does not like it; sounds quite rough and low power. Maybe I need to try the 95 gashol? Anyway, not impressed for a two stroker; will try and dilute it today with regular 91.

[gmac]

I am getting the same mileage out of gasohol 91 as with benzene 91. About 35 or 36 km per liter, driving hard. Cannot notice any difference in power output. I refer to save 4 or 5 baht per liter.

Peace Blondie - You use gasohol 91 or benzene 91 and I seem to remember you have a CBR 150 which I also have. When I put 91 benzene in mine (as opposed to 95 benzene that I usually use) it started to make a noise like it had a bag of nails in the engine! I have recently (2 months ago) replaced my 3 yr old bike with a new one of the same ilk and still use 95 benzene although there is a 91 benzene sticker on the tank. From what you are saying can I assume that I could use benzene or gasohol 91 or 95 in the new bike with no ill effects?

[Thanh-BKK]

I was in Chakuchak yesterday and fuel was almost empty; dropped into a PTT and they had no 91 regular benzine; I mean they did not have a pump for it. Pump attendant told me gashol 91 same; I replied not same. Anyway was low so put this gashol in my Yamaha TZR150, and the bike does not like it; sounds quite rough and low power. Maybe I need to try the 95 gashol? Anyway, not impressed for a two stroker; will try and dilute it today with regular 91.

Hi

Be VERY careful with Gasohol in two-strokes! The ethanol has the habit of being a very powerful cleaning agent - it removes oil and grease, among other things.

A two-stroke LIVES from the oil it receives along with the petrol.

Now the ethanol in Gasohol dissolves that very oil, and you are risking capital damage to your engine, specifically con rod bearings and crank shaft bearings.

To make it work you need to increase the 2T intake by a very large margin - best still, pre-mix additional oil to the gasohol in the tank at about a 1:40 ratio. As a result you will get more smoke but it will last. The downside, of course, is that due to the additional oil your savings of using Gasohol will get smaller.

Also you may have to change the ignition timing to a little earlier, if your ignition system allows for such alterations.

I ride an RXZ with a 150cc kit that uses a TZR/VRR piston, my "transfer ride" from the seller's place to mine was about 50 kilometers and done on Gasohol 95 (same reason as yours - gas station didn't have petrol 91) and i pre-mixed about 1:25 (the junk bike i bought for the spare parts, which included that racing kit, didn't have the autolube system working) and the ride was smooth.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[MaiChai]

Thanh thanks for the advice. I will water it down asap with 'real' fuel, and never use it again!

It also explains why my bike sometimes runs great and at other times runs like a dog, which seems to be related to the last time I filled up; I suspect some of the petrol companies are not supplying 100% oil derived benzine 91? I have really noticed this this year.

Wonder how well educated that fuel pump attendant is?

I guess 2 stroke days are number here in Thailand if they continue to push these new fuels? I would say we can only hope for a reduction in the price of oil to make alternatives less attractive? The government needs to keep selling regular 91 for all the old motorbikes on the road (plus small petrol engines used in farming). Anyone know when they plan to phase out benzine 91?

Edited June 30, 2008 by MaiChai

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

I've got another possible cause for THAT. Because between Gasohol and petrol there is normally no difference in power, even in a two-stroke.

Does the TZR have the "YPVS" system? (Power Valve). I'm sorry i'm not familiar with that model. But if it DOES have it, get that overhauled. Carbon can build up in it and make it jam, if worst comes to worst you can burn out the servo motor inside and that, i have been told, is a very expensive item to replace.

YPVS is like power steering. Not required, but it has a slight advantage. However if not working it has a MAJOR DISadvantage

Also make sure you use good oil - Yamaha's higher-end engines seem to be a little picky when it comes to 2T. I have tried many - mostly from all sorts of gas stations, but also from supermarkets. Engine runs rather rough and smokes a lot (i have the oil pump way open, i want my engine to last a few more years). But since 7-8 months i run exclusively on Castrol Go 2T, which cost a bit more (85 Baht/1 Liter) but the engine runs very well on it, even with the racing kit, smooth and all, and doesn't smoke so much.

And about the "old cars and motorbikes", i think the Thai government couldn't care less. If your old vehicle can't use the new fuels, it is up to you to get a new vehicle or use a bicycle.

Best regards......

Thanh

[MaiChai]

YPVS decoked a couple of months back, and I keep an eye on servo to make sure its not struggling (eg cables are well lubricated, etc). Bike is definitly sensitive to the fuel it gets. Carb in good order (recently fed a spares kit), fuel filter recently replaced.

Your average village shop has a pump for red benzine (handle driven); typically alot of folks in the country are using old bikes so the village shop supplies 91 red benzine that will work with ALL bikes. I can't see them switching over to gasohol unless they buy another pump?

[JetsetBkk]

..so put this gashol in my Yamaha TZR150, and the bike does not like it; sounds quite rough and low power...

I put gasohol 95 into my brand new Nouvo when I ran out of fuel the first time and from then on it was very difficult to start - had to start many times (at least 5 or 6) and gently throttle up, otherwise it would stall.

Once I'd used up all that fuel, I put in benzene 91 and straight away it became much easier to start - it would start first or second time and I can rev up and go straight away. So my experience is - put in what it says on the filler cap, in my case benzene 91.

[Issangeorge]

My Phantom will use E10, but not E 20. I always use E10 91 and if I can't get it E10 95. I have been told there is a mileage penalty, but I have not noticed this and am getting about 36 kilometres per litre. The only time it goes down is if I ride fast (over 105 kms/hour) or against a strong wind. Issangeorge.

[PeaceBlondie]

I am getting the same mileage out of gasohol 91 as with benzene 91. About 35 or 36 km per liter, driving hard. Cannot notice any difference in power output. I refer to save 4 or 5 baht per liter.

Peace Blondie - You use gasohol 91 or benzene 91 and I seem to remember you have a CBR 150 which I also have. When I put 91 benzene in mine (as opposed to 95 benzene that I usually use) it started to make a noise like it had a bag of nails in the engine! I have recently (2 months ago) replaced my 3 yr old bike with a new one of the same ilk and still use 95 benzene although there is a 91 benzene sticker on the tank. From what you are saying can I assume that I could use benzene or gasohol 91 or 95 in the new bike with no ill effects?

The older CBR150 like my 2003 could not take gasohol, but the new ones can. I had lots of carburetor problems with my 2003 model, but it acted the same way on 95 benzene (which it does not need according to the manual) as it did on 91 benzene. Now the 2008 model runs the same on 91 benzene or 91 gasohol. The 2008 owner's manual clearly shows all 3 colored fuel stickers on the front cover.

[Pikey]

For all the latest and greatest facts and speculation (some very humourous) on gasohol, check out this thread on GT-Rider:

http://www.gt-rider.com/thailand-motorcycl...ailand-f29.html

PB/Gmac, the choice between 91 and 95 octane rated fuel (either pure benzine or gasohol) is dictated by the compression ratio of your engine - i.e. how hard the piston squeezes the mixture of gas & air. If you have a high compression engine, running it on 91 octane fuel will cause detonation or "pinking". This can sound like someone has dropped a spanner into the cylinder when you weren't looking and is particularly noticeable when the engine is under load, for example, lugging up a hill in too high a gear. If that happens with 91, make the next tankful 95 and see what happens. If it still does it, depending on the model of bike, you may need your ignition timing altering slightly) or you can chuck in some octane booster. Unlikely to need either though with run-of-the-mill engines.

Cheers,

Pikey

[gmac]

I am getting the same mileage out of gasohol 91 as with benzene 91. About 35 or 36 km per liter, driving hard. Cannot notice any difference in power output. I refer to save 4 or 5 baht per liter.

Peace Blondie - You use gasohol 91 or benzene 91 and I seem to remember you have a CBR 150 which I also have. When I put 91 benzene in mine (as opposed to 95 benzene that I usually use) it started to make a noise like it had a bag of nails in the engine! I have recently (2 months ago) replaced my 3 yr old bike with a new one of the same ilk and still use 95 benzene although there is a 91 benzene sticker on the tank. From what you are saying can I assume that I could use benzene or gasohol 91 or 95 in the new bike with no ill effects?

The older CBR150 like my 2003 could not take gasohol, but the new ones can. I had lots of carburetor problems with my 2003 model, but it acted the same way on 95 benzene (which it does not need according to the manual) as it did on 91 benzene. Now the 2008 model runs the same on 91 benzene or 91 gasohol. The 2008 owner's manual clearly shows all 3 colored fuel stickers on the front cover.

Thanks PB, must confess, the manual just sits under the seat and I think "it's in Thai" so I hadn't bothered to look, thanks for the wake up call!

[PeaceBlondie]

I got some things in the manual translated, like weights

11:1 compression ratio seems high to me, but it never detonated or pinged. But I seldom drive it at low rpm.

[gmac]

I got some things in the manual translated, like weights

11:1 compression ratio seems high to me, but it never detonated or pinged. But I seldom drive it at low rpm.

I'll try some gasohol next time I fill up and have a listen. As I drive a lot in town and also up and down the hill from Jomtien to Pattaya I may have more chance of some unwelcome noises!

[Pikey]

According to the manual my Nouvo has a 10.8:1 comp ratio and I run it on gasohol 91 without probs so 11:1 would more than likely be OK too, especially as you have a sticker mentioning 91. I don't know at what ratio it starts becoming an issue and is probably different for different bikes anyway as it's linked to the ignition timing/fuel map.

BTW, paid 42.94B/litre yesterday for regular 91 for another bike here in CNX - irk!!!

Cheers,

Pikey.

[ramidin]

Her indoors recently talked me into buying a new Fino S, which has the 'E10 91' sticker on the fuel cap, ergo OK to run gasohol.

However, as an experiment I tried running it on straight 91, and noticed that when I changed back to gasohol 91 there was a significant power drop, particularly when cold.

Any mechanically minded souls able to tell me if there is any benefit in rotating, say gasohol 91 for three tanks then a tank of ordinary 91?

Since Gasohol is hovering around 36B and 91 around 43B, it is significant, although I wouldn't make a decision based on economy when my Vigo is guzzling diesel at 44b per litre .

[basjke]

Her indoors recently talked me into buying a new Fino S, which has the 'E10 91' sticker on the fuel cap, ergo OK to run gasohol.

However, as an experiment I tried running it on straight 91, and noticed that when I changed back to gasohol 91 there was a significant power drop, particularly when cold.

Any mechanically minded souls able to tell me if there is any benefit in rotating, say gasohol 91 for three tanks then a tank of ordinary 91?

Since Gasohol is hovering around 36B and 91 around 43B, it is significant, although I wouldn't make a decision based on economy when my Vigo is guzzling diesel at 44b per litre .

I guess you fill up at the wrong pumps.Gasohol is only 10% cheaper then gasoline 91.

[basjke]

According to the manual my Nouvo has a 10.8:1 comp ratio and I run it on gasohol 91 without probs so 11:1 would more than likely be OK too, especially as you have a sticker mentioning 91. I don't know at what ratio it starts becoming an issue and is probably different for different bikes anyway as it's linked to the ignition timing/fuel map.

BTW, paid 42.94B/litre yesterday for regular 91 for another bike here in CNX - irk!!!

Cheers,

Pikey.

My bike is new and the manual says that it can run on 91 octane.However when I fill with gasohol 91 it starts "pinkling" and gives backfire when you loosen the throttle,with gasohol 95 it will do it much less.However a fiend of mine told me last week that he blew the engine from his brandnew enduro motorbike by using gasohol.I started using gasoline 91 at that point and the pinkling and backfire is completely gone.Don't know if gasoline 95 is still available in thailand.Anyone heard if they gonna cancel selling gasoline 91 also in the future?

[bigNavySeal]

I am getting the same mileage out of gasohol 91 as with benzene 91. About 35 or 36 km per liter, driving hard. Cannot notice any difference in power output. I refer to save 4 or 5 baht per liter.

Peace Blondie - You use gasohol 91 or benzene 91 and I seem to remember you have a CBR 150 which I also have. When I put 91 benzene in mine (as opposed to 95 benzene that I usually use) it started to make a noise like it had a bag of nails in the engine! I have recently (2 months ago) replaced my 3 yr old bike with a new one of the same ilk and still use 95 benzene although there is a 91 benzene sticker on the tank. From what you are saying can I assume that I could use benzene or gasohol 91 or 95 in the new bike with no ill effects?

THis is so greatly confusing... I'm also driving an (older) Honda CBR150R, great bike. And I only fuel it up with Benzin 91. My THai friend advised me on this. When getting any other gas in the tank (Benzin 95 or Gasohol) my bike got pain in the stomach... I don't know. everyone is saying something else. I stick to Benzin 91 now, until there's true expert explanation for which one to use...

Cheers

[Mali1964]

Can some one tell me what will happen in 2012 when the government say they are stopping Benzine 91 & hasn't benzene 95 already finished?

Just something I read somewhere.