Banishment

[bkkjames]

Siberia...?

Or more likely a bar in Bangkok where they are feeding the Intumult's of the world their sob stories.

I really don't understand the purpose of this topic. What does Intumult want us to do. Not break up with our GF's / Wives because they may get banished from their own village?

It's not our fault that local society as it is puts certain constraints on their own - ie ok marry the farang but if you break up never come back home. Sorry that's something IMO that only the Thais should bear the burden for. Or is Intumult suggesting that we stay with our Mrs no matter what has or hasn't happened because if we don't then we are the blame for them getting banished for causing too much loss of face back home?

[lardy]

I know of a case where the family of a Thai lady started bragging all over the village how her new Farang son-in-law to be was going to buy them a pickup and farmland etc etc etc. The farang dumped her after finding her with her special brother and the family lost big face. The daughter was basically told to leave and not come back until she has a new Farang with the above mentioned accessories on tow.

I just loved that bit "special brother"

[lardy]

My ex was "banished" from her home after our break up. She also had to sell the things that I had put on HP for her.

It is merely a face thing for both her and the family....She moved to a neighbouring village and took up with a Thai guy.

I went back to her village after 8 years and never mentioned her nor asked about her with her family...The day before I left her sister asked me when I was leaving....the ex turned up in the last hour of my stay there...She had to do it but left it till the very last moment.

Face is an important part of Thai Culture and unfortunately most Westerners dont understand it. Those who understand the face concept will know why she had to come and see me.

And they never will understand it if you spout it out like this WHY NOT JUST TELL "US" WHY?

[a2396]

Siberia...?

Or more likely a bar in Bangkok where they are feeding the Intumult's of the world their sob stories.

I really don't understand the purpose of this topic. What does Intumult want us to do. Not break up with our GF's / Wives because they may get banished from their own village?

It's not our fault that local society as it is puts certain constraints on their own - ie ok marry the farang but if you break up never come back home. Sorry that's something IMO that only the Thais should bear the burden for. Or is Intumult suggesting that we stay with our Mrs no matter what has or hasn't happened because if we don't then we are the blame for them getting banished for causing too much loss of face back home?

Exactly. There is much double standard here with regard to Thai women having relationships with foreign men. There is a whole set of "rules" & expectations that come into play which don't necessarily apply if the lady is dating another Thai. I was told once, that it was not a good idea for me to visit one of my GF's at her Mother's village house, because the neighbors would gossip, etc, because we had not announced any intentions of marriage. It was OK for Thai boys to visit, but not me. This is another example of "Thai Culture" that needs to go in the trash can of history.

[bangon04]

Exactly. There is much double standard here with regard to Thai women having relationships with foreign men. There is a whole set of "rules" & expectations that come into play which don't necessarily apply if the lady is dating another Thai. I was told once, that it was not a good idea for me to visit one of my GF's at her Mother's village house, because the neighbors would gossip, etc, because we had not announced any intentions of marriage. It was OK for Thai boys to visit, but not me. This is another example of "Thai Culture" that needs to go in the trash can of history.

I have heard this said too - the Thai GF is putting her family's "Face" on the line when she first takes the decision to bring the Farang boyfriend home to meet the folks (and the rest of the village). If she is known to be a good girl then marriage is expected to be inevitable. Breaking up will be a social disgrace for the GF and the family.

[gburns57au]

And they never will understand it if you spout it out like this WHY NOT JUST TELL "US" WHY?

The answer is there.....

But just to explain....

If I had gone there and started asking about her....I would have been a soft cock...loss of face to me....even if I wanted to see her, which I did for personal reasons.

If she didnt come and see me she would have lost face as everyone in the village knew I was there...she would have been given <deleted> (no guts, too scared to face him etc..)...Loss of face to her.

So we had a little battle of face....In the end she knew as I did, that as I dont live there, then any loss of face to me would be minimal...However her loss of face would be more long lasting. She had to come and see me or lose face again as she had lost face at the break up. She waited till the last moment to see if I would make the first move.

When we did meet we stayed cordial....that was also important to the whole scenario.

[burman]

^ Not much different to how it would be elsewhere in the world really.

I think a lot of people look too deeply into the Asian concept of face and forget in regards to cases like this we have the same concept of face back in the west. It's really not very hard to understand when you think about it a little.

Edited June 25, 2008 by burman

[ade100]

^ Not much different to how it would be elsewhere in the world really.

I think a lot of people look too deeply into the Asian concept of face and forget in regards to cases like this we have the same concept of face back in the west. It's really not very hard to understand when you think about it a little.

Exactly. And in some Western countries they even have words for it: In Italy, "losing face" is called making "bruta figura". It's a very strong factor in Italian culture.

[OlRedEyes]

If their loss of face is so important, then it is their problem IMHO. As someone said, it's something that should have been in the trash can long ago. The world has moved on. No way will I change my life to dance around this old concept. If they want to live by it, it's their problem to sort out.

Face is not a unique Thai concept. It still exists even in the West today, and was probably just as important there a hundred years ago as it is still here today. The difference is that the West has moved on, on so will the Thai, inevitably.

[burman]

The western world hasn't moved on that much. The most heated arguments on this board are usually closed because people are too busy trying to save face and take another poster's face away.

I think the reason many westerners get so wound up by the Thai concept of face is because it's given to them as a bullshit excuse most of the time.

[Heng]

All one needs to do is embarrass someone in public and you'll see that 'face' is still in fact universal, it's just a matter of variation of what one finds "embarrassing," I think this varies more from person to person than from culture to culture.

[klikster]

It is the banishment side I was referring to.

As far as I am aware there was no infidelity and I did not refer to any. I was simply stating I do not agree with the banishent. I do not see why people have to see something that is not there.

Because that's the default sport on TV.

Edited June 25, 2008 by klikster

[bkkjames]

^ Not much different to how it would be elsewhere in the world really.

I think a lot of people look too deeply into the Asian concept of face and forget in regards to cases like this we have the same concept of face back in the west. It's really not very hard to understand when you think about it a little.

So according to your logic, if I divorced my Mrs in Italy, Germany, UK, USA etc, (assuming we were nationals of those countries) she would be banned from her home town or village? Me thinks this would be 1-1000 cases if even that much.

Sorry to disagree, but I don't think you have really thought about either, and hence why you don't understand it because while others mention losing face, this topic is about being banished as I understand it.

[burman]

If you notice the '^' mark in my post you will see I was referring to the post above mine, and not on the entire topic.

[burman]

And I think a lot of these banishments are more about sending the girl back to work to find another punter, especially considering who the OP tends to hang around with. I don't know anyone that has been banished from their family for this kind of thing.

[egg6447]

All one needs to do is embarrass someone in public and you'll see that 'face' is still in fact universal, it's just a matter of variation of what one finds "embarrassing," I think this varies more from person to person than from culture to culture.

ah the voice of reason at last. some of you face people should read embarrass for face . its that simple.

[egg6447]

And I think a lot of these banishments are more about sending the girl back to work to find another punter, especially considering who the OP tends to hang around with. I don't know anyone that has been banished from their family for this kind of thing.

a personal experience. my sister in law borrowed cash against her inherited land. all the family were opposed to the loan as it was obvious she couldn't pay it back. she lost the land and face. took off for a year plus until the dust settled. i believe expulsion self banishment is very common.

[OlRedEyes]

..... it's just a matter of variation of what one finds "embarrassing,.....

Exactly. And what one finds embarrassing depends on your own insecurity.

[farang555]

dont we all know by now farang to villagers only good for one thing. BAHT if i need to spell it out for you!

[medoraman]

As a result of the breakdown of a relationship with a Farang I see yet another Thai lady banished to another town far away.

Although not PC on TV to say so, often the banishment is self inflicted. For some folks, there is indeed still a stigma attached to marrying or becoming involved with a foreigner: farang, negro, or even non-Thai Asian. To have the relationship not "succeed" on top of the original stigma is sometimes too much for gals (and some guys) to bear... hence the self banishment.

I am both curios and worried. I guess I have never read where a Thai woman would have a stigma if she married a foreigner. I do not wish my gf or her family to suffer because I am farang. I love both of them, and have known both for years. Is this really true? Is there a way for them to regain any face they lose?

[Heng]

As a result of the breakdown of a relationship with a Farang I see yet another Thai lady banished to another town far away.

Although not PC on TV to say so, often the banishment is self inflicted. For some folks, there is indeed still a stigma attached to marrying or becoming involved with a foreigner: farang, negro, or even non-Thai Asian. To have the relationship not "succeed" on top of the original stigma is sometimes too much for gals (and some guys) to bear... hence the self banishment.

I am both curios and worried. I guess I have never read where a Thai woman would have a stigma if she married a foreigner. I do not wish my gf or her family to suffer because I am farang. I love both of them, and have known both for years. Is this really true? Is there a way for them to regain any face they lose?

Again, I said among SOME, probably along the same lines as the way SOME families in America still frown on intercultural marriages, despite the 'melting pot/spirit of diversity' lip service. It's not really something to worry about if you have a successful marriage, as those (both individual and families) who have such beliefs will usually self select themselves out of mixed relationships to begin with and for those who do not: a happy/successful marriage as mentioned typically counterbalances whatever stigmas may be present.

[a2396]

As a result of the breakdown of a relationship with a Farang I see yet another Thai lady banished to another town far away.

Although not PC on TV to say so, often the banishment is self inflicted. For some folks, there is indeed still a stigma attached to marrying or becoming involved with a foreigner: farang, negro, or even non-Thai Asian. To have the relationship not "succeed" on top of the original stigma is sometimes too much for gals (and some guys) to bear... hence the self banishment.

I am both curios and worried. I guess I have never read where a Thai woman would have a stigma if she married a foreigner. I do not wish my gf or her family to suffer because I am farang. I love both of them, and have known both for years. Is this really true? Is there a way for them to regain any face they lose?

Again, I said among SOME, probably along the same lines as the way SOME families in America still frown on intercultural marriages, despite the 'melting pot/spirit of diversity' lip service. It's not really something to worry about if you have a successful marriage, as those (both individual and families) who have such beliefs will usually self select themselves out of mixed relationships to begin with and for those who do not: a happy/successful marriage as mentioned typically counterbalances whatever stigmas may be present.

I would say the prejudice in Thailand re: marriage and/or dating relationships with foreigners is MUCH higher than USA. On the surface here in Thailand, there does not seem to be any problem of non-acceptance. I have never gotten any stares or dirty looks, when I am "out & about" with a Thai GF, but there are certainly a different set of conditions and expectations for such a relationship than what would apply to a Thai to Thai pair. I think many girls/women are hesitant to get involved with or even be seen alone with a foreign man for fear of being "type cast" as a gold digger, hooker, etc, who is just after money.

[Heng]

As a result of the breakdown of a relationship with a Farang I see yet another Thai lady banished to another town far away.

Although not PC on TV to say so, often the banishment is self inflicted. For some folks, there is indeed still a stigma attached to marrying or becoming involved with a foreigner: farang, negro, or even non-Thai Asian. To have the relationship not "succeed" on top of the original stigma is sometimes too much for gals (and some guys) to bear... hence the self banishment.

I am both curios and worried. I guess I have never read where a Thai woman would have a stigma if she married a foreigner. I do not wish my gf or her family to suffer because I am farang. I love both of them, and have known both for years. Is this really true? Is there a way for them to regain any face they lose?

Again, I said among SOME, probably along the same lines as the way SOME families in America still frown on intercultural marriages, despite the 'melting pot/spirit of diversity' lip service. It's not really something to worry about if you have a successful marriage, as those (both individual and families) who have such beliefs will usually self select themselves out of mixed relationships to begin with and for those who do not: a happy/successful marriage as mentioned typically counterbalances whatever stigmas may be present.

I would say the prejudice in Thailand re: marriage and/or dating relationships with foreigners is MUCH higher than USA. On the surface here in Thailand, there does not seem to be any problem of non-acceptance. I have never gotten any stares or dirty looks, when I am "out & about" with a Thai GF, but there are certainly a different set of conditions and expectations for such a relationship than what would apply to a Thai to Thai pair. I think many girls/women are hesitant to get involved with or even be seen alone with a foreign man for fear of being "type cast" as a gold digger, hooker, etc, who is just after money.

Yeah, I didn't mean that the percentages or type of prejudice was the same, I was saying that despite there being "seeming" acceptance, the prejudice most certainly exists. But in the same way, it's not really a big deal one way or the other since those who are more accepting or on the other hand intolerant will typically self select themselves out of the equation. Then one is simply left with worrying about what "other" people think, which really shouldn't be a concern anyway in one's day to day life.