For Expats With Kids

[WilliamCave]

To the expats that talk about the thai's all the time. I noticed a westerner driving around with there kids with no child car seat.

I have 2 car seats for my kids I brought them with me from Canada. They go in the car seats or they do not go with me, I understand Thai's not using them they are not brought up knowing about them, but as a westerner with young kids it makes me shake my head..

A couple of examples about my experiences with people and the child car seats. I was out to a friends house for a weekend

and when we where leaving they seen me put my kids in the seats..there response was do not drive to fast and get in to an accident the kids could be hurt bad in the seats I was actually stunned to hear some say that.

Another example is when I went to the wifes family for the weekend I would not allow more people in my fortunner than there are car seat belts.

Am I wrong NO I am not, even though it made me unpopular. they said they could hold the kids and take out the car seats.

I said no...So the family talked and talked on what and how they where all going to get in the vehicle,,

And as to allowing my kids on motor bikes,,,never going to happen I told my kids u ever get caught by me on a motor bike

if you dont fall and get hurt dont worry I will hurt u.

My brother in law tried to take my son on a motor bike and started to cry I told my brother in my son knows he is not allowed on a motor bike.

So my question is to all the expats that talk about the Thai's doing things how many of u follow theses western safety rules?

And to end it all when my wifes family and or friends all talk about what my kids should do eat, sleep, school, etc

I let them know decide what ever u want.

If I dont agree with it the answer is no, and always go to rule number 1 I am the father and dont ever go against my wishes because I will not hold my tounge when it comes to my kids, safety or what ever.

[nidge]

My nipper always stays in a car seat when he is in my car, and just like you, if someone wants to get in my car they have to wear a seat belt. However when the baby is in someone elses car, he will sit on mums lap. I don't know of anyone else that has a baby seat. I have a smaller one and tried to give it to my sister in law for her baby and she was not interested. As for motor bikes, my son will ride occasionally to the village market standing between mums legs but most of the time he goes on grandmas bike sat on a baby seat behind the handle bars.

[sibeymai]

Took our baby girl home from the hospital in a cradle. Hospital staff seem amused every time I brought her in the cradle. Never seen a Thai using a cradle. Another month or so she will graduate to a car seat. Definitely no motorcycles until she's old enough to get a license to drive one.

[WilliamCave]

Took our baby girl home from the hospital in a cradle. Hospital staff seem amused every time I brought her in the cradle. Never seen a Thai using a cradle. Another month or so she will graduate to a car seat. Definitely no motorcycles until she's old enough to get a license to drive one.

good to hear others are on the same wave wave as me ...I think if Thai's see more of us using them they might catch on

[Boo]

It is so hard to educate though & needs careful handleling not to make a huge argument out of it. I took a car seat with me to visit the in laws & whilst lo was strapped happily in his seat, next to nanny, me & hubby in front, nanny decided that it was "too hot" for the non crying, non grizzling quite contented baby, to be in his seat so unstrapped him whilst travelling down the highway at 120kms per hour.

The next time I turned to check on my son he was being held up & jiggled, ok he was loving it but had we had to brake suddenly or someone hit us, my son would have been the first thing to go through the windscreen.

It takes a lot of control to not just lose it but I somehow managed it & just got hubby to pull over, calmly got out of the car, took the baby, hubby asked mil to swap seats with me & I placed son back in the car seat. She (mil) knew there was a problem but I left it to hubby to explain but from my body langauge she knew I was ready to flip but I had to keep it under control cause she is a 65+ year old women who doesn't know any better. She does now though & she wouldn't even take him out of the seat once our journey ended without checking with me first

The motorbike thing is the one I am dreading later on, hubby has been told that not even once but I can't be there all the time & although he knows better than to do it, I can't be sure that other relatives wont try!!!

[lazeeboy]

It is so hard to educate though & needs careful handleling not to make a huge argument out of it. I took a car seat with me to visit the in laws & whilst lo was strapped happily in his seat, next to nanny, me & hubby in front, nanny decided that it was "too hot" for the non crying, non grizzling quite contented baby, to be in his seat so unstrapped him whilst travelling down the highway at 120kms per hour.

The next time I turned to check on my son he was being held up & jiggled, ok he was loving it but had we had to brake suddenly or someone hit us, my son would have been the first thing to go through the windscreen.

It takes a lot of control to not just lose it but I somehow managed it & just got hubby to pull over, calmly got out of the car, took the baby, hubby asked mil to swap seats with me & I placed son back in the car seat. She (mil) knew there was a problem but I left it to hubby to explain but from my body langauge she knew I was ready to flip but I had to keep it under control cause she is a 65+ year old women who doesn't know any better. She does now though & she wouldn't even take him out of the seat once our journey ended without checking with me first

The motorbike thing is the one I am dreading later on, hubby has been told that not even once but I can't be there all the time & although he knows better than to do it, I can't be sure that other relatives wont try!!!

travelling at 120k ,wouldnt make any difference if the baby was strapped in ,you'll all die anyway

[WilliamCave]

It is so hard to educate though & needs careful handleling not to make a huge argument out of it. I took a car seat with me to visit the in laws & whilst lo was strapped happily in his seat, next to nanny, me & hubby in front, nanny decided that it was "too hot" for the non crying, non grizzling quite contented baby, to be in his seat so unstrapped him whilst travelling down the highway at 120kms per hour.

The next time I turned to check on my son he was being held up & jiggled, ok he was loving it but had we had to brake suddenly or someone hit us, my son would have been the first thing to go through the windscreen.

It takes a lot of control to not just lose it but I somehow managed it & just got hubby to pull over, calmly got out of the car, took the baby, hubby asked mil to swap seats with me & I placed son back in the car seat. She (mil) knew there was a problem but I left it to hubby to explain but from my body langauge she knew I was ready to flip but I had to keep it under control cause she is a 65+ year old women who doesn't know any better. She does now though & she wouldn't even take him out of the seat once our journey ended without checking with me first

The motorbike thing is the one I am dreading later on, hubby has been told that not even once but I can't be there all the time & although he knows better than to do it, I can't be sure that other relatives wont try!!!

travelling at 120k ,wouldnt make any difference if the baby was strapped in ,you'll all die anyway

I dissagree with u on that. My friends are Parammetic in Canada and even after the worst accidentthe see kids survive

[Boo]

travelling at 120k ,wouldnt make any difference if the baby was strapped in ,you'll all die anyway

Your opinion.

[philo]

Thanks to the OP for bringing up this subject. But he will never win - as is stated above: You cannot be with and watch your child 24 hours a day.

If you are concerned with safety, here is the solution:

1. Do not come to Thailand.

2. If you do, do not get a child.

3. If you already have one, stay with it all the time.

4. If you cannot, hope that Buddha will help you.

Have you seen those stupid white/green 'SAFETY FIRST' banners at construction sites? If one of the workers dies, may be the family will get 20k, but they will probably not even bother to get the police involved.

Instead of worrying about your children, leave it to destiny, and sit down and reflect over why you married and got children in a 3rd world country ...

[Boo]

ok!

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Thanks to the OP for bringing up this subject. But he will never win - as is stated above: You cannot be with and watch your child 24 hours a day.

If you are concerned with safety, here is the solution:

1. Do not come to Thailand.

2. If you do, do not get a child.

3. If you already have one, stay with it all the time.

4. If you cannot, hope that Buddha will help you.

Have you seen those stupid white/green 'SAFETY FIRST' banners at construction sites? If one of the workers dies, may be the family will get 20k, but they will probably not even bother to get the police involved.

Instead of worrying about your children, leave it to destiny, and sit down and reflect over why you married and got children in a 3rd world country ...

I like Thailand more than my own country and will make a life here but I do not agree with everything and will never when the local attitude is so stupid and irresponsible (I don't blame them either, it's just about education...).

When I see farangs taking such risks I'm thinking that it's a shame to be born in a country where safety is important and do not apply the rules they have learnt before. If they want to die or be handicapped it's ok, but it's criminal to let their kids take such risks.

To the OP, I totally agree with you, but if the family really wants to go with me when the car is full I would let them sit on the roof as it's not shocking at all for them ;-)

[thaihome]

Growing up in the US during the ‘50’s, wearing seat belts, much less child car seats were unheard of. Just like there, it will take Thailand at least one generation of education to get people to accept the western concept of car safety. Unfortunately, I think the government has been a bit late in getting started with the education bit and the police just use the current seat belt laws as a revenue center.

TH

[jumnien]

Growing up in the US during the ‘50’s, wearing seat belts, much less child car seats were unheard of. Just like there, it will take Thailand at least one generation of education to get people to accept the western concept of car safety. Unfortunately, I think the government has been a bit late in getting started with the education bit and the police just use the current seat belt laws as a revenue center.

TH

By the time Thailand catches up to Western concept of car safety the Western standard of safety will be for all passengers of the vehicle to wear a full face helmet and fireproof suit!

[slapout]

That would be assumeing Thailand goes forward and the western world stands still. Most doubtful.....

[t.s]

OP:

you are completely right, though i cant see myself willingly spending any time with you.

[limbos]

My kids are always in a children seat. On rare occasions they sit with Mum in the front and I drive a lot slower than.

Motobikes are also my big worry for when they're old enough. Before that, they'll be in major trouble if I catch them riding one.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Growing up in the US during the ‘50’s, wearing seat belts, much less child car seats were unheard of. Just like there, it will take Thailand at least one generation of education to get people to accept the western concept of car safety. Unfortunately, I think the government has been a bit late in getting started with the education bit and the police just use the current seat belt laws as a revenue center.

TH

By the time Thailand catches up to Western concept of car safety the Western standard of safety will be for all passengers of the vehicle to wear a full face helmet and fireproof suit!

Right !

New law in France since the 1st of july, everybody must have a triangle and yellow jacket in the car as said by Carl Lagerfeld ( Chanel designer) on advertising: "It's yellow, ugly, looks like shxt but it can save your life"

http://www.leparisien.fr/illustrations/298574832.jpg

[AFKAFSinLOS]

travelling at 120k ,wouldnt make any difference if the baby was strapped in ,you'll all die anyway

Your opinion.

I'd say your opinion, and his being closer to the fact...

I don't have any data to hand to quote, but he is much closer to the mark. I do remember statistics a few years back on survival chance being minimal at 80km/h in a head to head crash. Obviously the type of crash you have and what you crash into make a difference etc. One of the problems in collecting data is that you can't ask many people who died what speed they were travelling at... For the survivors they don't like to admit to their full speed...

Which brings me to the next point... driving at 120 km/h. Now firstly that's illegal young lady...and secondly not very responsible either... Perhaps grandma actually took baby out of the car seat to make you slow down... You shouldn't underestimate the way Thais get their own way indirectly

Then of course there's surviving a 120km/h crash and living with the consequences. Very high chance of something adverse there... as well as setting a bad example...

BTW The Swedish are big on this type of analysis, which is why Volvo got their image of square boring but safe... Another figure I remember is that cars used to be designed to maintain there integrity at just over 60 km/h. I'msure it's progressed a bit since then, but that's half the speed you mentioned...

As for motorbikes...no way...

We have a car seat but no car...

[Boo]

AFKAFSinLOS

QUOTE (Boo @ 2008-07-11 15:50:04)

QUOTE

travelling at 120k ,wouldnt make any difference if the baby was strapped in ,you'll all die anyway

Your opinion.

I'd say your opinion, and his being closer to the fact...

nope, still just his opinion. He didn't say, probably or maybe. It isn't a fact, only an opinion.

Perhaps grandma actually took baby out of the car seat to make you slow down... You shouldn't underestimate the way Thais get their own way indirectly

I wasn't driving & either way that would be a pretty stupid way to get someone to slow down.

120km/ph is 74 miles per hour. Not sure if you are mistaking that with 120miles per hour but 74miles per hour is not very fast at all & is in within the legal speed limit for motorways in Thailand.

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Perhaps grandma actually took baby out of the car seat to make you slow down... You shouldn't underestimate the way Thais get their own way indirectly

I wasn't driving & either way that would be a pretty stupid way to get someone to slow down.

You did say your mother in-law was Thai... Who mentioned anything about it being sensible... I just said Thais sometimes like the indierct approach - often not sensible in my view...

BTW I Was thinking of km not miles, 120km/h is right for motorway, for some reason I assumed you weren't on a motorway as you were travelling up country...

[Boo]

ah ok, nope, were on the stretch between Korat & KK.

Yes, she's thai but she wasn't sending subliminal messages she just thought he was too hot, you know, in that fully airconed car

More likely she fancied a cuddle (and I can't blame her for that)

[GuestHouse]

So let us consider this 120Kms/Hr scenario:

Two cars each doing 120Kms/hr.

Car A contains two adults and two children - One child held on the passenger's lap, one child sitting on the back seat without a seat belt.

Car B contains two adults and two children - Both children in the back sitting in correctly secured child seats.

---

Now car A comes around a bend at 12Kms per Hour and is confronted with a lorry trailer tipped across the road - The driver has to break seriously hard to try and avoid an accident.

Now car B comes around a bend at 12Kms per Hour and is confronted with a lorry trailer tipped across the road - The driver has to break seriously hard to try and avoid an accident.

Is anyone here seriously suggesting that children who are not strapped in are safe in this situation, that they are not already bouncing around the car, and the fact that they are already flying out of their seats is not causing the driver to break less, swerve less or simply districting the driver from avoiding the collision?

Seat belts and child car seats are safer at all speeds!

[mizzi39]

My wife had our "little one" 3 weeks ago and a car seat was one of the first things I bought (after the crib) I would not even think of driving my child around the LOS or anywhere else for that matter without a car seat, and as far as a motorbike goes? I have one and use it to run short errands, but there is no way in h_ll that I am taking my child on it. My mama always told me, SAFETY FIRST!

[garro]

I worked as a trauma nurse and know quite a bit about car accidents. When I see my Thai neighbours not using car seats or allowing their children on motorbikes I don't get all judgemental. Everyone brings up their children in the best way they can, and it is hard enough without everyone else deciding how things should be done. I personally try and use a car seat when my son will settle in it, but he likes to be held some of the time.

I think that we should all concentrate on raising our own kids, but I know that this is not likely to happen.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

I worked as a trauma nurse and know quite a bit about car accidents. When I see my Thai neighbours not using car seats or allowing their children on motorbikes I don't get all judgemental. Everyone brings up their children in the best way they can, and it is hard enough without everyone else deciding how things should be done. I personally try and use a car seat when my son will settle in it, but he likes to be held some of the time.

I think that we should all concentrate on raising our own kids, but I know that this is not likely to happen.

When it's about safety it seems that people can't decide themselves, that's why we have laws to protect the people, but these laws are not enforced in Thailand, maybe the gvt doesn't do it's job and too much corruption.

[garro]

I worked as a trauma nurse and know quite a bit about car accidents. When I see my Thai neighbours not using car seats or allowing their children on motorbikes I don't get all judgemental. Everyone brings up their children in the best way they can, and it is hard enough without everyone else deciding how things should be done. I personally try and use a car seat when my son will settle in it, but he likes to be held some of the time.

I think that we should all concentrate on raising our own kids, but I know that this is not likely to happen.

When it's about safety it seems that people can't decide themselves, that's why we have laws to protect the people, but these laws are not enforced in Thailand, maybe the gvt doesn't do it's job and too much corruption.

Could you please provide evidence that a law has been passed in Thailand in regards to child safety seats. If a law is passed in your country it does not make it law here, and this has nothing to do with corruption.

Who is 'we' ? Are you a member of a new super-government which controls the whole world?

[frenchFARANGbkk]

I agree that there is not yet any law in Thailand about child safety seats, but as we all know that this will happen sooner all later (when the government will do it's job) BECAUSE IT IS PROVEN that it can save lives, I think that anybody with a brain should use them. And money is not a good reason not to buy these seats when you see some people buying 10000 thb (at least) audio systems for their cars but not child seats...

So everybody coming from a western country should know.

And I repeat that I think that adults can do what they want, even finish their life in a wheelchair, but kids who can't decide and understand should be protected.

I like Thailand and even agree with the corrupted system when it doesn't concern people safety (I don't mind that laws against piracy or any other laws are not enforced because nobody is going to die because of that !).

[garro]

I agree that there is not yet any law in Thailand about child safety seats, but as we all know that this will happen sooner all later (when the government will do it's job) BECAUSE IT IS PROVEN that it can save lives, I think that anybody with a brain should use them. And money is not a good reason not to buy these seats when you see some people buying 10000 thb (at least) audio systems for their cars but not child seats...

So everybody coming from a western country should know.

And I repeat that I think that adults can do what they want, even finish their life in a wheelchair, but kids who can't decide and understand should be protected.

I like Thailand and even agree with the corrupted system when it doesn't concern people safety (I don't mind that laws against piracy or any other laws are not enforced because nobody is going to die because of that !).

So it isn't about corruption. Good.

Yes it has been proven that car seats can save lives if installed correctly, but that most people don't install them properly. It has also been shown that the declining car seat can contribute to SIDS in young infants.

There are lots of things that people don't do that we could give us cause to accuse people of neglecting their children. We know that not breast feeding a child is putting him/her at risk of catching something nasty in the first few months - as his/her immune system has not developed. Should Thailand have a law for this too? What about wrapping children in bubble-wrap when they go to school- that could save lives too.

[Boo]

Yes it has been proven that car seats can save lives if installed correctly, but that most people don't install them properly. It has also been shown that the declining car seat can contribute to SIDS in young infants.

Have you checked them all? Also sids can be linked to child car seats if a very young baby is left in one for extended period of time (hours) ratehr than normal driving trips.

There are lots of things that people don't do that we could give us cause to accuse people of neglecting their children. We know that not breast feeding a child is putting him/her at risk of catching something nasty in the first few months - as his/her immune system has not developed. Should Thailand have a law for this too?

This example is pointless as not everyone has the ability to breastfeed but there is no valid medical reason to prevent people from doing something they know can help.

What about wrapping children in bubble-wrap when they go to school- that could save lives too.

Another pointless example imo as again, this would be trying to control any number of situations from occuring where using a child seat helps to save children in accidents. It is a fact that using one will be a more preventative measure than not using one.

But you are right, raise your kids how you want. I just hope for whose who chose not to use one that an accident doesn't occur, for the childs sake.

[garro]

Yes it has been proven that car seats can save lives if installed correctly, but that most people don't install them properly. It has also been shown that the declining car seat can contribute to SIDS in young infants.

Have you checked them all? Also sids can be linked to child car seats if a very young baby is left in one for extended period of time (hours) ratehr than normal driving trips.

There are lots of things that people don't do that we could give us cause to accuse people of neglecting their children. We know that not breast feeding a child is putting him/her at risk of catching something nasty in the first few months - as his/her immune system has not developed. Should Thailand have a law for this too?

This example is pointless as not everyone has the ability to breastfeed but there is no valid medical reason to prevent people from doing something they know can help.

What about wrapping children in bubble-wrap when they go to school- that could save lives too.

Another pointless example imo as again, this would be trying to control any number of situations from occuring where using a child seat helps to save children in accidents. It is a fact that using one will be a more preventative measure than not using one.

But you are right, raise your kids how you want. I just hope for whose who chose not to use one that an accident doesn't occur, for the childs sake.

According to research it is 80 minutes and not hours for the risk of SIDS to be increased.

I don't have to count them all. The safety of car seats is proved by research, and so it is only fair that I can cite research to back up my claim that most people don't install them correctly.

A survey involving almost 6,000 children found that only 21 percent of children in safety seats were correctly harnessed into seats that were correctly installed.

http://www.baptistonline.org/health/health...hildCarSeat.asp

Unfortunately studies show 96% of the safety car seats in use are not installed correctly! So the fatality rate is very high for children involved in car collisions.

http://elcajonfire.com/archives/2008/04/are_you_your_ch.php

Of the more than 3,000 car seats the motor club checked during the past year and a half, 78 percent were either installed incorrectly or consumers were using them in the wrong way.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...629C8B63&se

Maybe it is those that can afford expensive car seats but don't install them correctly who are neglectful?

In regards to breast feeding; not everyone who can breastfeed does breastfeed. Are those that don't but can neglecting their children? Should there be laws?

I liked the bubble-wrap example - after all if it saves one life.