Effects Of New Regulations

[Scott]

I was talking to one of the school's Administrative people concerning the regulation on teacher's either having to have a B.Ed. or take the training course in order to teach in Thailand. The Admin person confirmed that they had been told by the MOE that it will go into effect in 2009 for foreign teachers. Apparently they are giving them some slack on Thai teachers getting up to speed on the regulation, but no slack for foreign teachers.

Does anyone know what is happening with this? Is 2009 the projected date everywhere? Will existing teachers likely be 'grandfathered' in? We get a fair number of farang applicants for teachers, but very, very few of them have B.Ed.. This could have a very serious effect on recruitment.

Your thoughts, opinions and ideas are appreciated.

[mopenyang]

Thoughts:

1. If this really comes into effect, foreign teachers will rapidly become an endangered species in Thailand.

2. Work at a university and this will be one less worry.

[markg]

I receive possibly 1,000 emailed resumes per year for the school i work at, and i carry out the interviews too.

1. Out of all those resumes, i would say maybe a maximum of 10 have a Bed. (That's 10 per year)

2. The teachers with a Bed that i have interviewed have refused to drop their standards. I'm sorry to say this but in my experience, to work in education in Thailand you have to drop your standards and your expectations. You have to drop your standards in areas of discipline, areas of grading and assessment, in allowing cheating (sorry, 'helping each other'), in areas of punctuality and attendance and in areas of fulfillment. This isnt about Western schools being richer, these are just fundamental differences between the two cultures, and if you care about your job in education, you either have to significantly lower your standards, or just not work here.

3. Let's be honest here, without getting into the whole degree/no degree issue, you DONT need a Bed to teach EFL English. As a matter of fact, someone with a Bed and experience of teaching in the West is probably full of preconceived ideas, expectations and standards and are therefore possibly the worst candidates to fill positions here in EFL in Thailand.

4. Raising the education requirements of Native speakers is unlikely to raise the standards of education here. When the fundamentally flawed areas listed in point 2 above are addressed, then proper education stands some chance of being improved - and that change has to come from Thai people, within Thailand, who can see the flaws and who give a dam_n.

5. If the educational changes do come in, then i will have to leave. If the number of Bed qualified candidates i receive is representative of things in Thailand, then there just will not be enough Native speakers here.

6. It could very well be a 100% Filipino market next year.

7. Why am i still here? Yeah - i lowered my standards - but they are still higher than most Thai teachers.

[culicine]

I receive possibly 1,000 emailed resumes per year for the school i work at, and i carry out the interviews too.

1. Out of all those resumes, i would say maybe a maximum of 10 have a Bed. (That's 10 per year)

2. The teachers with a Bed that i have interviewed have refused to drop their standards. I'm sorry to say this but in my experience, to work in education in Thailand you have to drop your standards and your expectations. You have to drop your standards in areas of discipline, areas of grading and assessment, in allowing cheating (sorry, 'helping each other'), in areas of punctuality and attendance and in areas of fulfillment. This isnt about Western schools being richer, these are just fundamental differences between the two cultures, and if you care about your job in education, you either have to significantly lower your standards, or just not work here.

3. Let's be honest here, without getting into the whole degree/no degree issue, you DONT need a Bed to teach EFL English. As a matter of fact, someone with a Bed and experience of teaching in the West is probably full of preconceived ideas, expectations and standards and are therefore possibly the worst candidates to fill positions here in EFL in Thailand.

4. Raising the education requirements of Native speakers is unlikely to raise the standards of education here. When the fundamentally flawed areas listed in point 2 above are addressed, then proper education stands some chance of being improved - and that change has to come from Thai people, within Thailand, who can see the flaws and who give a dam_n.

5. If the educational changes do come in, then i will have to leave. If the number of Bed qualified candidates i receive is representative of things in Thailand, then there just will not be enough Native speakers here.

6. It could very well be a 100% Filipino market next year.

7. Why am i still here? Yeah - i lowered my standards - but they are still higher than most Thai teachers.

I've just finished a teaching course (Grad Dip Ed), but I've been working here for several years. What I can say is that it IS possible to be a better teacher if you have some additional training (as I work in an EP so I'm not strictly an EFL teacher. Hence my duties include homeroom teacher, and teaching my full load of maths classes, and also am involved in a lot of extra curricular activities (a major one being voluntary on my part). So the job is more like what you would do in a regular school in the west.

As for EFL teachers, especially in government schools, I think the degree + tefl should be enough.

I don;t know why the BEd teachrs would think they need to lower their standards (maybe they need to lower their expectations of their students, the schools, and the system as a whole). The fact that noone gets less then 50% doesn't really bother me - ofcourse it doesn't help with motivation, but we have enacted a lot of other activities (a house system) that motivates students. Afterall, most of them KNOW they will go to university, regardless of what they learn/do at school.

A lot will depend on parents - will schools up their salaries to attract BEd's (I would say 60K minimum). I think it just won't be possible in a govvie school teaching efl. IF the rules are enforced, these schools will just tell the parents they can't get falang teachers and will have to settle for Philipinos (most of the new teachers in my schools getting the new TL are Philipinos). EP's might have to lift their game and imporve salaries if they want farang teachers. Why would a BEd work for 40K in an EP when they can get a bare minimum of 60K in a low tier international school? The main problem I see with Philipinos is their level of english is not adequate for teaching senior highschool, and they have no real classroom management ability (except for the odd few I've seen). Seeing m2 students running around the classroom throuwing things with one of their teachers just standing there with their arms crossed makes my blood boil!

[PeaceBlondie]

If you believe in conspiracy theories, just assume that Filipinos have possessed the bodies of TCT executives.

As already explained well by markg, enforcement of the B.Ed. rule would expel about 99% of the true native speaking EFL teachers, or drive them off the books, illegal. Replacing them with Filipinos. Did anybody ever answer my earlier question: results-wise, educationally, what is the difference between a Thai English teacher and a Filipino English teacher?

Farang who married Thais and have babies by them are scrambling to get visas out of Thailand for their families.

I was a good EFL and mini-MEP math teacher, three years ago. I gave it up because I could afford to.

What about language center teachers? Will they suddenly be competing for 408-baht an hour jobs?

[Scott]

Thanks, especially markg. Like you, I also do the recruiting and interviewing. I would guess I get about the same number of resumes per year (quite a few are only inquiries, of course) and of those probably less than 10% are B.Ed. qualified. Currently our of about 40 (farang) teachers, we have 1 with a B.Ed. and 1 without (but did attend enough courses that he got a T.L. in a Western Country). The Filipinos (about 30 or so) are much more in compliance, maybe 60%.

A lot of the recruitment that we do is directly overseas and still the number of education people applying is really, really small and that is my main concern. Education aside, I have no idea how on earth we can comply with this regulation. Salary isn't the basic criteria, because if it were, we would get the applications, but ultimately they would reject us because of salary. It seldom even reaches that point.

Historically, most, but certainly not all, of the teachers we've had were folks who had some desire to be here--wife, gf/bf, holiday filled with fun etc.

Any ideas as to how this is going to shake down? Any way of getting the folks to understand it probably won't work? Will existing teachers be grandfathered in?

[makavelithedon]

Thanks, especially markg. Like you, I also do the recruiting and interviewing. I would guess I get about the same number of resumes per year (quite a few are only inquiries, of course) and of those probably less than 10% are B.Ed. qualified. Currently our of about 40 (farang) teachers, we have 1 with a B.Ed. and 1 without (but did attend enough courses that he got a T.L. in a Western Country). The Filipinos (about 30 or so) are much more in compliance, maybe 60%.

A lot of the recruitment that we do is directly overseas and still the number of education people applying is really, really small and that is my main concern. Education aside, I have no idea how on earth we can comply with this regulation. Salary isn't the basic criteria, because if it were, we would get the applications, but ultimately they would reject us because of salary. It seldom even reaches that point.

Historically, most, but certainly not all, of the teachers we've had were folks who had some desire to be here--wife, gf/bf, holiday filled with fun etc.

Any ideas as to how this is going to shake down? Any way of getting the folks to understand it probably won't work? Will existing teachers be grandfathered in?

My guess Scott will be you won't get the recruitment you want. Maybe a career change for you along with a lot of others will be the horizon?

As with the other recent changes it will go through and not be 'grandfathered in' either for normal EFL teachers in my view. When everything has been adopted,changed,revised and updated and the Thais look around and realise there's no one left a mass panic to revise update and back peddle will ensue but the damage will have already been done to the long-termers.

Mark G, your outlined points are absolutely how it is and point 3 tops the lot for me. Just nice to read someone who's been there, done it and bought the roti put it so astutely for a change.

Thanks

Mak

Edited July 14, 2008 by makavelithedon

[PeaceBlondie]

One thing wrong with Thai EFL is that there are too many dead-ends, too many jobs where you escape by the skin of your teeth and have to start over. Some of you guys have substantial resumes by now, and might not have to start over in another country, where your expertise might be valued more. Staying here any longer might be hazardous to your career.

Hope springs eternal, even here. Do you honestly think the Thai educational system will wake up to some epiphany in the next ten years? I doubt it.

[Scott]

Thanks guys, I tend to agree. I hear a lot of people say "they can't do that"; "they won't do that" etc., but in my most modest opinion, I've seen them act first and think later--and in this case it will likely be too late.

We have a lot of Filipino teachers, and generally, I only hire those with Education degrees--because I can. They are subject teachers and do a great job, but seldom do we put them in a language class, and then only to fill in for an absent teacher. Even with this quasi policy, it's hard to find upper level math and science teachers who demonstrate a high level of knowledge in teaching. We have several engineers who teach upper level math and a biochemistry major for biology and chemistry (no B.Ed's).

I am not TOO worried about our existing farang staff, since most of them won't have to renew their TL for 2 years, but as far as recruiting is concerned, it's going to be a BIG problem. Huge.

[PeaceBlondie]

Scott, I am trying not to be a smart-aleck when I write this, but

Who in their right mind thinks that native-English-speaking B.Ed.'s (fully certified in the real world) with certifications in a field like science, math or even history, are knocking on doors in Bangkok for less than 80K or 100K per month?

Now, to be a smart-aleck: my fully certified daughter who teaches chemistry and physics tells me that in her state no university issues B.Ed. degrees. And Wangsuda seemed to say that most well-qualified teachers in the West get a BA or BS and go back later for a post graduate course in education. So does that mean the TCT is barking up the wrong tree like a mad dog, or they just wanted cheap Filipinos all along? Not that there's anything wrong with that..

[garro]

I agree with a lot of what has been written here, but who can really predict the future. It does seem likely though that things will change and maybe this will mean less native speakers. I teach in an English program and I am currently the only native speaker, but I must admit that my Fillipino and Indian colleagues are very dedicated and I believe good teachers.

I think that some of us with families here obviously will need to find a way to meet the requirements. I recently completed my PGCE so I'm probably safe. Others may have to find other means to stay here. I think that there will always be native speakers around, but not in the same numbers. It will probably the case of mostly non-native speakers teaching with a token native speaker for decoration- someone to stick on a stage for Wan Wai Kru and for parent's meetings .

Edited July 14, 2008 by garro

[Scott]

Thanks Garro--I tend to agree with you on a lot of points. I have questioned the Thai Admin on why they want native speakers and they were rather blunt that a lot of it was for show--or as they said "they look good for the parents." In general the Filipinos/Indians etc. can teach circles around the average farang with no qualifications. Farangs that are qualified--whether B.Ed. or degree plus TEFL, CELTA etc., are excellent. I think, however, the English part of these programs will deteriorate drastically when left in the hands of foreigners. There will be a significant loss of the use and understanding of the language.

I am not in any way attempting to tell the Thai gov't what to do or not to do--it's up to each country to figure out what type of foreigners they want to let in and what work they want them to do. I long ago felt they should have been upgrading their own English teachers--sending them for courses overseas, or having intensive in-country courses. They've never done this.

I think overall they are a country that strives for mediocrity. The best place to instill this value (or lack of a value) is in school. The days of the token farang should have long been over, but I guess it's what makes them happy.

[wangsuda]

And Wangsuda seemed to say that most well-qualified teachers in the West get a BA or BS and go back later for a post graduate course in education.

Exactly. I remember a program in Nevada (about 10 years ago) that offered a Bachelors degree in elementary education. It was simply to get much needed elementary school teachers. The degree was Nevada specific and really not good anywhere else (recognized, but not worth much). I honestly do not see the importance of a B.Ed. Generally, they are not subject-specific and teach only theory. IMO, a teacher with a couple of years experience and a CELTA are much better in the classroom. The cream of the crop, of course, are those who have a subject-specific degree and a post graduate teaching qualification (USA credential, PGCE, etc). Unfortunately, having one of those does not mean more money. Same hoops and same money as an FOB with a Khao San Road degree.

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, the topic is the effects of the new regulations for teachers.

Our forum has special rules, pinned near the top of the first page. Those rules include

3. It is inflammatory to refer to teachers in general or groups of teachers (by age, nationality, ethnicity, age, sexual preference, religion, or gender) in negative terms. It is also inflammatory to refer to the group of posters on this forum in negative terms. You may relate anecdotes about individual teachers who specifically deserve criticism in relation to some part of their identity as listed above, but such remarks should be carefully considered. The moderators reserve the right to determine if such statements about individual teachers remain on the forum.

[scyriacus]

...Some of them are pretty worthless folks and the only gift they have is the gift of gab. I wouldn't want them doing anything much more than conversation. I am exaggerating, but you get my drfit.

So what is that Thailand wants? How do they go about getting it? I have encouraged my school to send Thai teachers for training--they can begin to upgrade the teaching of English themselves. They haven't, of course, done this.

Regulations generally have a purpose and an impact on systems and institutions. What is the purpose of these regulations? What do they wish to achieve? What impact will they have on the educational system?

I have stated before that mediocracy seems to be the goal here. I hope I am wrong. I hope there is a method in their madness and that someone can point it out.

I am sorry, but your school must be very shabby if most of the native speakers are 'worthless folk' - what a peculiar way to refer to a human by the way. I would say that, at least my perspective, the native speaker is being edged out purely because of economics.

sorry, garro monkey, although i did like most of your previous comments, your getting 'off-topic' here. we're not talking economics and scott has asked a lot of important questions about 'teaching. 'edge out' to me seems a peculiar way to refer to a human. don't we need to 'edge out' the 'worthless'? and what gives me another 'bad day' is when you arbitrarily change his reasonable 'some' into a totally unbiased 'most' (my humble opinion: some are worthless, most are not and the 'gift of gab' is very important for conversation, much more than grammar & spelling). please don't do that again if you want to be taken seriously........

ps to scott: what is drfit and why 'of course'

[PeaceBlondie]

"Rant" is well defined in my modern British dictionary as "to complain or talk loudly and argue for a long time, sometimes saying unreasonable things."

Off-topic posts in this topic are now shown under a new topic, "Rants and Raves About Filipino Teachers" which may all end in the trash bin.

Stay on topic here. Thank you.

[PeaceBlondie]

Six more rants and counter-points removed. This time they went into the trash because it is way too difficult for this ham-fisted moderator to merge them into the new thread where they belong, but where they would contribute virtually nothing. Further off-topic posts will likewise be deleted.

I have always been a male, and always a blondie.

[scyriacus]

Scott, I am trying not to be a smart-aleck when I write this, but

Who in their right mind thinks that native-English-speaking B.Ed.'s (fully certified in the real world) with certifications in a field like science, math or even history, are knocking on doors in Bangkok for less than 80K or 100K per month?

Now, to be a smart-aleck: my fully certified daughter who teaches chemistry and physics tells me that in her state no university issues B.Ed. degrees. And Wangsuda seemed to say that most well-qualified teachers in the West get a BA or BS and go back later for a post graduate course in education. So does that mean the TCT is barking up the wrong tree like a mad dog, or they just wanted cheap Filipinos all along? Not that there's anything wrong with that..

hi mr. peaceblondie, if 'TCT is barking up the wrong tree like a mad dog' is not at all inflammatory, can we continue to discuss "cheap Filipinos for less than 80k/month"? or would you please kindly consider, that forum peace rules are valid for everyone, for dissidents, monkeys and super moderators alike. not that there's anything wrong with that... i happen to know a filipina, who would refuse 80k, be content with 70k and give the rest (10k) to an orphanage. tam bun in thai.....

[Scott]

Sorry for using idioms--to get my drift, means my "idea" My thought. I think most of us would be remiss if we failed to look at the number of really bad teachers we've seen over the past years.

I am of an age and a place in time where I don't really care what they do. I am secure so to speak, I am, however, concerned about the state of Thai education and about what will happen with English languague teaching.

If the Thai system can handle teaching without native speakers (I don't think so), then so be it, but if not what recourse do we have or should we have and what should we do?

[PeaceBlondie]

Scott, I share your age group, place, and concern about the state of Thai education. I came here with too much optimism and not enough cynicism, and have maybe reached the opposite extreme. Yes, there are some really bad teachers out there, of all nationalities including our own. I doubt the TCT efforts to raise the bar will work, and may only drive away the dedicated native speakers who are well qualified. Sometimes, at the local level in certain classrooms, education in Thailand works quite well. Generally, it fails miserably because it is mis-managed.

[PeaceBlondie]

I deleted a very respectable post by a valued member because it would have led us further off topic about bad teachers. Let's try to stay on the effects of the new regulations by the TCT and the MOE. Thank you.

[Scott]

Just to give some folks who might be interested--after the closing of the thread on Filipino teachers--there is some hope for teachers under the new regulations.

According to a source at the MOE, they will be granting two year licenses to teachers and this can be extended (although probably not indefinitely). Thus the changes will (hopefully) not be too sudden, especially for those who have been around for a while.

The problem is going to be in recruitment of new teachers, I think and then also retention of teachers over a longer period of time.

Any other information, insights or observations would be appreciated.

[markg]

Just to give some folks who might be interested--after the closing of the thread on Filipino teachers--there is some hope for teachers under the new regulations.

According to a source at the MOE, they will be granting two year licenses to teachers and this can be extended (although probably not indefinitely). Thus the changes will (hopefully) not be too sudden, especially for those who have been around for a while.

The problem is going to be in recruitment of new teachers, I think and then also retention of teachers over a longer period of time.

Any other information, insights or observations would be appreciated.

This is often the Thai way. Try to implement an ill-conceived plan, then spend a long time trying to find a face-saving way to back out of it.

I wonder Scott if you can cite your MOE source? I think this is old news to be honest.........unless you can tell us differently. Our school submitted documents asking for the 2 year exemption a while ago. Is this the same thing you're talking about?

Has this information come to light since the resignation of the TCT head?

A two year icing period will have little effect.

Existing teachers will wait it out in the hope that it all gets forgotten, as is so often the case in Thailand.

Or

It will give schools, students and parents time to get used to having teachers from none-native countries around.

I still cannot see much, if any, uptake in the 1 year, 60,000 baht Thai course.

I do not see there being anything like enough B.Ed certified natives taking up the baton, for a plethora of reasons, not exclusive to, poor wages, little job security other than a 1 year contract, no pension, little in the way of professional development offered, little or no chance of promotion.

Here's the bottom line. The TCT cannot expect professional, career teachers to take up a position that does not offer a career - for the reasons stated above.

The TCT need to realise this pretty quickly and re-think other ways of improving Thai education, from within. (Corruption and ethics might be good areas to address)

I seem to remember a 'clause 4' tagged onto the initial regulations. Something about schools being able to write a letter of certification to the MOE (or TCT) stating that the teacher is suitable and should be granted a licence, irrespective of his qualifications.

TCT - there's your face saving get-out clause.

Please see sense and use it.

Edited July 21, 2008 by markg

[Scott]

Markg: Thanks, you seem to be up to speed on what's going on, and ahead of me. Any news that I have may already be out there, but I hadn't heard about it. I am not overly concerned for our existing teachers--at least not at this point--because most have a 2 year license. I am worried about recruiting new teachers.

I am concerned as to how they plan to implement the new regulations. The regulation is one thing, the implementation can be quite another. As for the 'waiver' clause, it might be difficult to explain why 90% of your teachers need a waiver!

How on God's earth do they expect us to find B.Ed. qualified teachers? It's difficult to find any kind of qualification, let alone B.Ed.. To be honest the % of applicants with these qualifications is very, very low. A lot of folks, especially from overseas, are afraid of these new regulations. It's difficult to explain 'mai pen rai' to them. They are used to have laws and rules mean something.

At the same time, the local pool of applicants is smaller than before. Between the visa regulations and the teaching regulations, I think some schools could be in for a hard time with regard to recruitment of native speakers.

[PeaceBlondie]

markg mentioned these reasons: "poor wages, little job security other than a 1 year contract, no pension, little in the way of professional development offered, little or no chance of promotion. Here's the bottom line. The TCT cannot expect professional, career teachers to take up a position that does not offer a career - for the reasons stated above." markg left our one more, major reason: generally moronic management. Most administrators are a disgrace to wherever they graduated from university. No professional educator works for a boss who manages like an idiot. And if you think I am harsh, you have not read the other Thai English forum.

[markg]

Most administrators are a disgrace to wherever they graduated from university. No professional educator works for a boss who manages like an idiot.

Our deputy head - who in the mornings is in charge of making sure the Mathayom students come to class on time, does not have a wrist watch.

I will say that again, in another way.

The man in charge of time keeping does not have a chronometer.

When i told him over half the class were now 15 minutes, he asked me what time it was!

As i'm in the South, i've taken to singing that Job2Do song "Mai pruuuuuuu.....never mind, mai pen rai" everytime i see him.

He thinks i'm a right happy bunny as i m always singing. (Mai pruuu is the southern dialect for mai pen rai i'm led to believe)

The knobber.

As to the effects of what the new rules may mean, Scott, you fairly flabbergasted and tickled me when you said, "I am concerned as to how they plan to implement the new regulations. The regulation is one thing, the implementation can be quite another. "

It's Thailand me old chum. Since i have been here, i have seen very little to convince me that much thought is given to the implementation of new regulations.

I'm quite serious when i say they give more thought to finding face-saving ways of getting themselves out of the corner they drove into.

Does anyone remember, for example, just after the Mark Karr fiasco, when a regulation was brought in saying that all Type B visa applicants from teachers (as opposed to businessmen) would have to be accompanied by a finger print check.

They brought it in on the 25th of December if i remember rightly. (i hesitate to call it Christmas Day)

The kicker was, that it could only be done at one place in Bangkok.

Then when that place couldnt cope...........they changed it to say that your embassy had to take your dabs.

Then they realised that most embassies dont provide such a service.

So they forgot all about it after all.

Kinda a good idea, but no thought given to its implementation what so ever.

Anyway, back on track, sort of. I dont know about others on here, but this has most definitely been the HARDEST year for recruitment since i've been here. (i am a teacher by the way, not a recruiter - but i deal with hiring and firing too)

Our school advertise our vacancies on another website for our school in Phuket. We hired our last teacher the day before the start of semester one - the response to adverts was miserable. We HAVE to have native speakers, and the response from anything other than travellers/back packers etc was just awful.

Now, it could be for any number of reasons. China having the olympics and paying decent salaries has certainly taken its toll. I will know more in the period between semester 1 and 2.

However, i have noticed a measurable downturn in the number and quality of applicants we have been getting in the last 2 or 3 years - and we pay higher than average salaries in a good school in Phuket too.

So........how can we get the decent teachers back?

Oh, i know, make it harder to come here!

Make the requirements that of a proper career teacher but dont offer any of the benefits a career teacher requires.

That should do the trick. (Note to TCT, this is me being sarcastic. Google it)

If the regulations stay the way they are proposing, then we will not recognise the face of the industry in 2 years time. I suspect that it will be a change for the worse, but who knows.

I'm still sitting this out. I think the TCT will see sense or just change their minds and it will all be forgotten in 2 years time. I do hope so, because we currently have a team of dedicated, caring people, who are good and effective teachers. And they would have to leave.

That's just not right.

[PeaceBlondie]

Moronic management is so endemic here that it must be injected into new teachers as they graduate from rajabat, for the last thirty years. I search my memory in vain to think of even a random report of an MEP, EP, or native speaker program that has been administered with even ten percent competence.

But as somebody said elsewhere, maybe we should thank God for a no-fail policy, since the exams are written so poorly as to be impossible to pass.

[Scott]

There are two courses which are necessary to be a Thai manager in a school. First, study on how the Pharohs managed their slaves and secondly attend the Marie Antoniette seminar on "How to Win Friends and Influence People."

It also helps if you have a complete disregard for competence, but hold well-dressed people in high esteem.

PB, you are a bad influence. I try not to trash the school where I work, but sometimes your just so darn right!!

[PeaceBlondie]

It also helps if you have a complete disregard for competence, but hold well-dressed people in high esteem.

PB, you are a bad influence. I try not to trash the school where I work, but sometimes your just so darn right!!

Scott, here is my secret for how I survived two years in a remote province: I dressed well. Proper color of every day, northern Lanna shirt on Friday (including one that made me resemble the Prince of Nakorn).