What Does Koh Phangan Need Now After Lotus

[sbk]

Happy hippie days, nice turn of phrase there girlx. Happy hippie days usually resulted in a death a month at the FMP. If not a death then someone being sent off to Suan Saranom psychiatric hospital for evaluation after having flipped out on drugs. Personally, the parties are tamer now than they used to be.

Anyway, lets get back to discussing what needs to be done, and what we, as people who care about the direction the island takes, can do about it.

[frankman]

I moved to Koh Phangan 20 years ago and have lived there ever since, my husband is local. And no, there were no banks. Money changers yes, but banks no. No phones either. I used a radio phone at the Post office. The 'clinic' you are talking about was the new govt hospital with only one doctor. Also with no electricity during the day. Sure it was great as a tourist but I can tell you the locals appreciated getting things like 24 hour a day electricity. The joys of handwashing one's clothes quickly wears off after a few years.

It's easy to wax nostalgic over the "good old days" but the "good old days" weren't so great if you had to live them day in and day out for years.

Now is the point, where we could start an endless discussion about the pros and contras of "development" and about all the detailed aspects of that, which brings not only comfort, but also a lot of stress in many different ways.

I agree 100%. I love my tv, A/C, Adsl etc. But I'm old now and need it. And i'm greartfull to have it.

Peace

[frankman]

QUOTE (frankman @ 2008-07-19 22:04:38) *

No more freak-parties, junkeys, ya ba or ma, pills, powder; whatever ; ............. drink beer!!!

to me statements like this just show (to me) how small minded people can be, kind of hypocrite to me, living on the pot no 1 island from Thailand. Similar to the big add "addict's not welcome" on the island and the alcohol problem and addicts on the island under the male locals, local and foreigner. I understand that back "home" there are a lot of short minded people everywhere (as here too), but people going so far and bringing their uneducated (Taliban)-brains with them to such an anarchistic place is just amazing. Hope you get happy here! But pleace put a helmet.

your post really makes little sense but if you are suggesting that trying to clean up the island is a bad thing, your attitude kind of disgusts me. it is not for farangs to say that koh phangan should remain drug riddled and anarchistic. while there are a lot of local thais profiting off the drug people and contributing to the anarchy, the majority of the locals hate it. personally, i think in some areas of the island the drugs have gotten out of hand, and made some people volatile and scary. the happy hippie days you obviously are clutching at are fading fast, and that is because the more hardcore people have moved in and there is no one to stop them.

I mean, get rid of the daelers and clean the trash out; Not so difficult to unddedrstand for a 'normal' dude. Just try!

[frankman]

What the island realy needs, is get rid of some 'now-it all better- expats',with too much time for nothing productive to do.! Exept showing off everynight how much they can drink and talk b....sh.. ! My opinion. Ans sorry for the spelling again my 'one-language- lecture!

[frankman]

- Immigration Office

- Tourist Police

- A real working Tourist Operator Association

- A better pollution control

- A better safety control for Full Moon (cops, first-aid, etc)

- More controls on motorbike-for-rent shops

- More resorts with real security guards

- Less heroin and Yahbaa

And more... Somebody else add more thinks to do

What are you dreaming at night!?

[angiud]

[girlx]

Happy hippie days, nice turn of phrase there girlx. smile.gif Happy hippie days usually resulted in a death a month at the FMP. If not a death then someone being sent off to Suan Saranom psychiatric hospital for evaluation after having flipped out on drugs. Personally, the parties are tamer now than they used to be.

well doesn't sound like it has changed much at all then. i do remember you yourself posting on here pretty recently about the parties in ban tai getting out of hand and the locals complaining about it. certainly as mentioned on here before i saw a huge increase in yaba in the past year there (have heard that heroin was a lot worse in the past). the point is, the parties are not innocuous and are actually embarassing to the island, and people who think that life there is just one big happy rave need to pull their heads out of their asses. it's a dirty drug island and the majority of the long term people i met there (who weren't contributing to it themselves) would love to see it cleaned up. so yes, police who actually do their jobs would be nice.

[sbk]

Um, I think I posted that people were complaining that there were too many and they were too loud.

And I have deleted off-topic posts that seem to be mainly bickering between a few posters.

[seville]

Has there and could there ever be a community of Westerners and Thais that could ban together and work on the really big problems for all concerned? Water, Sewage, Over building, Violent Crime Being over looked and a host of other things.

So tell me boys and girls of KP. Why isn't there a concerned citizens of KP? PAC managed to get up off the ground. Why not starting with the garbage problem or the pollution of the water. Would it be possible to start a non profit and try to gather funds to make KP a community that works together despite the problems? Drug dealers need clean water too. We all lose if the garbage keeps getting worse. I don't really care about what drugs people are taking or selling that's their business.

Taxis don't get in them. But I swim and so do 90% of the tourist that bring their money with them. We get so much garbage washing up on Had Tien it's heart breaking. Nothing like advertising paradise and then finding out your surrounded by garbage.

What about a website that lists all the resorts that pollute the creeks, streams and the gulf? Why not a ban on plastic bags? What about a good business of KP site. We don't list the bad motor bike rental places just the good ones. We don't list the bad travel agents who book people on the wrong Had Tien beach and then keep their money. We just list the travel agents who would never dream of doing such a thing. I sure hope someone is reading this

Had Rin has had a marginal bit of success getting rid of some riff raff and cleaning some things up have they not?

Lastly, Girlx I'm sorry that your years on Thong Nai Pan were so difficult. I'm pretty sure over two years ago I asked you why the hel_l you were still living there. Okay, you've moved.

Can you please stop posting things like, "dirty drug island," when referring to KP. It's offensive. You want to say that TNP is a dirty drug village or talk about TNP being like this or that fine. Just leave the rest of the island out of it. Thong Nai Pan is Thong Nai Pan, not Koh Phangan.

[girlx]

Lastly, Girlx I'm sorry that your years on Thong Nai Pan were so difficult. I'm pretty sure over two years ago I asked you why the hel_l you were still living there. Okay, you've moved.Can you please stop posting things like, "dirty drug island," when referring to KP. It's offensive. You want to say that TNP is a dirty drug village or talk about TNP being like this or that fine. Just leave the rest of the island out of it. Thong Nai Pan is Thong Nai Pan, not Koh Phangan.

i am talking about koh phangan, and after living there for 4 years, i am entitled to my opinion. i do love it, but it IS a dirty drug island, despite the fact that there are a lot of nice people not involved in it. almost every single serious problem i witnessed in the time i lived there (not just mine but those of friends and neighbors) was drug related (or corruption by the people supposed to be leaders). and KPG has this reputation all over thailand. if you don't see it, good for you, but it is my opinion that people should take a realistic look around and make an effort to change things. i was trying to make the point with 'ham' that it's not all fluffy hippie love and raves there, some serious violence etc. occurs. i have met some of the craziest people ever on that island- both thai and farang. around full moon time especially it feels like pattaya. it would be nice if as it progresses, all that trash was phased out, they just bring the place down for the nice people.

Has there and could there ever be a community of Westerners and Thais that could ban together and work on the really big problems for all concerned?

there used to be the green cross group, what happened to them?

Edited July 22, 2008 by girlx

[samuibeachbum]

Happy hippie days, nice turn of phrase there girlx. Happy hippie days usually resulted in a death a month at the FMP. If not a death then someone being sent off to Suan Saranom psychiatric hospital for evaluation after having flipped out on drugs. Personally, the parties are tamer now than they used to be.

I had the mis-fortune to attend the FMP on Saturday and I only saw a handful of people on drugs and these were mainly Thai lady boys, the majority of the aXXholes were drunk on buckets.

I have a lot of experience with drugs and the affects on people and have been to many drug fuelled parties around the world and I would rather be at a drug fuelled party than the awful BUCKET fuelled party that calls itself FMP.

just my 2 bahts worth

[seville]

Girlx of course we all see what you are talking about. But TNP is not the whole island. TNP is it's own little island onto it's self and everybody knows it. The rest of the island does not operate the same way. You lived on Thong Nai Pan, your neighbors etc. it's not the same all over.

Ham does live in Hippy Love Fest Land. Have you ever spent any time where he lives? Most of the locals and leaders are completely chill cause everybody is getting along and don't have generations of drinking and gambling problems.

All the Westerners are doing Yoga or meditating. The Thai are all in bed by 10pm. Except for a handful of people chilling at one of the chilled out bars are you kidding me. I think they throw the occasional party.

No shootings, no Cock fights and all the rest of what goes on on TNP. My ex-boyfriend use to gamble playing checkers for Christ sake when we lived there. Thong Nai Pan is the wild west of the island Always, has been.

Why do you think it was so easy for KP properties to get their hands on all the land? Lots of people with outstanding debts of all kinds needing to be paid off. As a matter of fact, Ham use to live there before you or I ever did.

Girlx and I have both been TV members for what over 3/4 years now. She living full time on a beach on Phangan that takes at least 45 minutes to get to by a very bad dirt road. The beach is lovely and one of my favorite spots on the island. I lived there for 6 months in total and was the girl friend of one of the local men from the island.

I know pretty much all the same people that she does. I think Girlx may have gotten there after I had already moved away. It is notorious for being lawless, full of drugs, gambling and everything bad that Girlx will ever say about the entire island.

But most people that live there don't leave for months. Okay, maybe go to Thongsala, a little shopping on Samui, but for the most part and I'll bet I'm right. Girlx never lived on any other part of the island. Maybe a week here, a week there, but never lived on a different beach.

Not all of the island is like where she lived, as a matter of fact, no place on the island is like where she lived. Not even Had Rin.

My opinion, Girlx is your bitter and I'd be bitter too if I hadn't left TNP. But the rest of island simply is not like where you lived on the island.

As for the Green Cross and the life guards and everything else that the Phangan Explore had in the mag. Image booster.

Have a fund raiser get some people to volunteer and then get busy making Real Estate Deals. No real passion behind it. But it looks good in the magazine.

[baco]

Well, baco, we could also start to discuss so many aspects of your statement, about improvement, the basis and all the sideffects, pros and contras for the locals, guest workers, expats, tourists, about the effects on natur and environment, about the way things were done until now and their effects today and in the future, about the decision makers and their relation to so many different facts, they are depending on, about the position of farangs, guests or not or partly, but I will leave it by that as well. TV is full with such discussions already.

But one thing is very, very clear to me: TV should be an open forum for all opinions and views as long as they do not harm others!

If the good old days should come back, partly or not at all, or if someone would like to build a bridge from KPG to BKK, can be said here!

Your statement is without any room for an open mind. Therefore destructive, intolerant and ignorant.

SBK I agree with you, I'm living here just a few yrs but to everybody who is talking about 20 yrs ago stop it.

Because you know the so called good old days will never come back so look to the future, okay there is still a lot to improve.

We have to see what is going to happen, and it is beyond our controll because the thais are making the decissions if they do it right is an other question.

We, the farangs are just guest here.

Well birdman the only one who is destructive and harmfull and ignorant is you because if you really think that theclock can be turned back to 20 yrs ago well keep on dreaming. I Think it is a waste of time talk about the past it is better to talk about the future and what can be improved.

For the rest I never said in my post that nobody could have there opinion, but to read is difficult for you i think.

[ham]

some people get mixed up with reality and their own problem, projecting and so on

TNP / Had Chaopao not sooo big difference, "chai roon" Thai type everywhere I think and experience, Family clans, old history all together, somehow related throughout the natural island isolation before. But that is what makes Ko Phangan so special. The old people telling that ko phangan is beded on dimants and flooting in the golf!!. The island is everything we will project on it, but never we will get into the mystic of it. Some may get a taste of it. It's also a microcosmos and has a microclima too

don't f*%up with them, never ever and they know exactly what is going on, with you, with them, with us

Seville, there was just this songkran a very ugly shooting and family shocking wave went through the island, no different to TNP. We thought that to (they too), but we also never finish learning and understanding. Beacause it is always now! So never the same as before

[girlx]

Girlx of course we all see what you are talking about. But TNP is not the whole island. TNP is it's own little island onto it's self and everybody knows it. The rest of the island does not operate the same way. You lived on Thong Nai Pan, your neighbors etc. it's not the same all over.

you're wrong, before thong nai pan i rented a house in ban kai. which had many of the same problems- one of the locals there is the most messed up person on the entire island in my opinion, and there are LOADS of drugs around there. and for sure there are shootings etc. in other parts of the island- a big political figure was recently shot in sri thanu for instance, which seems like a lovely, peaceful place. my ex boyfriend lived in had yao for almost 3 years, it's the same there. i did not just sit in thong nai pan for 4 years. AND thong nai pan is just as chill on the surface as the rest of the island is... under the surface there is a lot going on all over the island. the problem with there being no real enforced law (or on the flip side, anyone to protect you from the people who break it) is a serious, widespread problem... but if you want to remain in denial about the state of things in KPG, go right ahead. it didn't get it's reputation for nothing though. and it won't be cleaned up until the problems are acknowledged.

Edited July 22, 2008 by girlx

[sbk]

I think the one thing that I see here, girlx, is the presumption that you seem to make that this is not the norm for most parts of Thailand. You seem to have some sort of idea, or at least that is the impression I get, that Koh Phangan is somehow unique in its problems. Read the pattaya forum for awhile and I think you might realize that these issues occur everywhere in the country. That is, I suspect, the main issue.

So, instead of bickering yet again over who is right, who is wrong yadda yadda yadda, why not come up with something constructive? Any suggestions? Any ideas?

[seville]

I think I understand your post Ham. There are so many amazing people and places on the island. It's really magical and has some of the most amazing energy I have ever felt. Where there is Dark there is Light you chose where you wish to focus your attention.

What I'm trying to express to others is that TNP is small and out there pretty far. So all the bad and the ugly is right in your face. Girlx was there for 4 years and kept letting herself get hit on the head with it. Then comes on TV and hits us on the head. I don't like someone calling my home a dirty drug island. I can say the same thing about NYC and it is just as true.

Here's my point. Find the common ground, find a way to work with the forces that be, move with the tide not against it and if everything proves to be too much for you walk away.

So again, I ask all of you with a vested interest in this Beautiful Island that many of us call home.

Isn't there a way with all of us developers, travel agents, rental agents, real estate investors, Dive shop owners, Yoga instructors and yes, even drug dealers to focus on one real issue that everyone can get behind and try a make a positive step.

Is anyone willing or able to put up a non-profit website that can reward good business owners with advertising and help steer Westerns and Thais alike onto a positive path.

Did we need a Lotus, no. Did many people on the island want it, yes. Did many of the big name families not want it, yes. How did it get pushed through, money.

Do we need to do something about the garbage, yes. How is it going to be dealt with money. Same with the water, sewage and the whole lot.

Why was PAC successful. Because people did something and put their money, time and effort where their mouth was. Are they struggling like all non-profits yes. But they have made a huge change and that my friends is a success story of Westerners making a positive impact on the island.

My ties to people with influence is very small and I also don't live there full time. I want to, but I'm not ready to make the move. I'm willing to support a good cause that will benefit us all both with my time and money.

Why not start with Plastic Bags? Who is with me to do an e-mail campaign to ask the Publisher of Phangan Explorer to have a page on 10 things you can do to help the island.

1. Say, no thank you to the plastic bag. Put stuff in your Pack.

2. Pick up garbage when you see it. Especially near the water.

3. Don't throw anything off a boat and into the water. Even organic matter especially fruit.

what else:

Have a big fund raiser to buy really heavy sturdy rubbish bins. Enough to have them all over the island. Then try to get a commitment from Bungalow owners to dump them out. Where there is not garbage service.

Make a list of all the buisness owners who contributed to the cause. Free positive advertising. What do you guys think?

[seville]

Not in denial Girlx. I'm just bored and offended by your comments. Not just you, but plenty of people that have been in Thailand for years and complain and write the same posts over and over again. If you don't like the rules or the lack of them leave. It's not going to be any different any place else in the Kingdom you know that.

I accept how things are run on the island.

[girlx]

Koh Phangan is somehow unique in its problems. Read the pattaya forum for awhile and I think you might realize that these issues occur everywhere in the country. That is, I suspect, the main issue.

well of course pattaya has the same problems, that comparison doesn't win any points! and of course you forget again that i have been all over thailand and have stayed long term on other islands. koh phangan is unique in that there is a big influx of drugs from the farang population due to the full moon party (and other parties), and on top of that it is isolated from the mainland so the lack of any attention from law enforcement is even more pronounced (there isn't even a tourist police office on the island, and the few police who are there certainly don't do much policing or seem to have any overseers!) i would also assert that the lack of a decent education for the locals greatly contributes to all the problems- violence, drugs, environmental pollution, etc. included. the whole island is a wild west. hopefully with more development some of these problems will be addressed.

I accept how things are run on the island.

like i said, up to you. but wait until you have a problem or someone close to you does, and then see what you say. koh phangan was my home too, full time year round and in the center of the village as a lone farang female, which is quite different to your experience i am sure, and i have seen a lot that you probably won't see (both good and bad)... and i still love it!... but i find some aspects of the place quite sad, and would love to see it cleaned up so it is safer and some of the disgusting people who are there (farangs who spend all their money on drugs and then mooch around off the locals, locals who get hopped up on whatever and then go provoke fights with tourists, etc.) get pushed out so that it can be a paradise all around rather than just on the surface.

[lazeeboy]

good honest people would be a start

[girlx]

Is anyone willing or able to put up a non-profit website that can reward good business owners with advertising and help steer Westerns and Thais alike onto a positive path.

you can easily set up a blog for free and communicate via the comments. or go to ning.com and make your own social network page for free... here is **link removed**

p.s. the link that was removed was an invitation to the social network that i created.... but without peoples' emails or allowing the link to be posted on here, there is no way to invite people to join, so i guess you'll have to send the link via PM.

Edited July 23, 2008 by girlx
sorry girlx but your link does not work properly and blind links are not allowed--sbk

[baco]

Girlx but who's gonna decide who's a good business owner?

this seems pretty hard to me

[girlx]

hmm not really sure what you mean? i don't think the idea is to kick out bad business owners so much as to crackdown on illegal or "bad" activities (gun violence and other assaults, drugs, shady land deals, environmental destruction, gambling, spreading of STDs etc.), and a lot of that can be done through volunteer education programs if the police aren't going to get off their worthless duffs. if you teach the local kids that there is a lot more to life than drug parties (ie. music, art, literature, sports, etc.) and that the world is bigger than koh phangan and is worth learning about and saving, then that would help a lot for a start! but people always talk about this kind of thing and never do...

Edited July 23, 2008 by girlx

[seville]

like i said, up to you. but wait until you have a problem or someone close to you does, and then see what you say. koh phangan was my home too, full time year round and in the center of the village as a lone farang female, which is quite different to your experience i am sure, and i have seen a lot that you probably won't see (both good and bad)... and i still love it!... but i find some aspects of the place quite sad, and would love to see it cleaned up so it is safer and some of the disgusting people who are there (farangs who spend all their money on drugs and then mooch around off the locals, locals who get hopped up on whatever and then go provoke fights with tourists, etc.) get pushed out so that it can be a paradise all around rather than just on the surface.

Girlx I've seen everything that you have and I've seen my neighbors get beat up and all their money taken away and everything else that you have mentioned. I was single on the island for nearly 3 years. I just don't bother to tell everyone on TV about it.

I made a point to keep really close to a number of key families on the island and listen to everything they say and don't make waves. I work along side of them and with them, Thai style. But I'm smart enough to know that I'm not a local. I am fully aware that I am tolerated. I don't even consider myself accepted. I don't get into business deals with well known unscrupulous characters and I keep my big mouth shut. I'm not saying that you get yourself into trouble by stirring the pot, but perhaps you did.

Again, your comment was offensive and I'm bored with bringing up the same old stuff that most of us are fully aware of that goes on in the whole kingdom.

Baco, I think you were commenting on my idea.

For instance here in the states there is Better Business.

Basically you don't get a bunch of complaints you can be on the list. What we have on the island is what 3 magazines now. They list businesses that advertise with them.

So you list places that seem to have really good business practices.

For instance;

I have a couple internet/travel agents I go to in Had Rin. Nice people, on top of things and one even charges us semi locals 2 baht a minute. Nice people.

Only one of them I would suggest getting a motor bike from. Her bikes are good, tuned up and most of all the brakes are good. The others no.

People looking for good clean cheap rooms. You can find them all over, but those bungalows don't advertise. I for one would like to see them get more business. We still have plenty of really nice people who want no frills rooms. But no listing of where they are.

Sort of like what Lonely Planet does. Same for the trades, real estate companies, etc.

I went to Phangan Explorers website and it's down. I'll try to find Sage Properties.

[seville]

Yeah, links got me nowhere Girlx

[samuiseagull]

Airport!!! Make it two!!!! It's a joke...calm down!!

[cobra]

The Beach (with Dicaprio, back in 2000) didn't help,

After the movie FMP numbers swelled exponentially, straining the limited local resources and services, (sewage, trash),

One of the few infrastructure improvements that would be of benefit would be in docks/piers, at least from a safety stand point,

The monthly flotilla of motor boats dumping off buzzed full-mooners in the water, in the dark, negotiating departing motor craft, reminiscent of some D-day Omaha beach scene,

[ham]

Seville and any other/s interested in a more open minded view about Ko Phangan, then only business (nothing against it). I will take your advice regarding announcement of "good" developments etc. in my soon to be published website about ko phangan. More later here on TV coming back to this issue

[girlx]

I'm not saying that you get yourself into trouble by stirring the pot, but perhaps you did.

and perhaps you really know nothing at all about my situation because i haven't posted the details on thaivisa.

Again, your comment was offensive and I'm bored with bringing up the same old stuff that most of us are fully aware of that goes on in the whole kingdom.

then how can we improve upon the problems then? by ignoring them?

Yeah, links got me nowhere Girlx

again, go to ning.com and set up a free social network site. unless you are just talk. you can try this one (not the same as i posted before SBK): http://care4phangan.ning.com/

Edited July 24, 2008 by girlx

[baco]

Seville

Your idea of listing looks good but i still think it is n ot easy because what you think is a good business somebody else might think something different, and you could easely piss doem people off.

They might come and ask why their neighbour is listed as a good travel agency and they not, or they are on the list and a month later they are of the list.

You will get angry people, thai and farang.

You have to set up rules to get on the good list and if there are complaints about a business on the good list you have to go there and ask their site of the story. And if you're not on the good list then you are a bad business?

I think it is very hard though it looks llike a positive idea