Do I Need To Renounce My Citizenship To Get Thai Citizenship ?

[jerryb78]

hi guys

this is my first post as i could not find info. anywhere. so here's goes.

I was born to a american father and thai mother in thailand in 1978. i was born and raise in Pattaya Beach till i came to school in the USA in 1993

my birth was reported as birth aboard to US embassey and i do have thai birth certificate.

but my Thai birth certificate said that i have american citizen ( at my father request)

my name is also in the Home registration book ( Taa Bian Ban ), the citizehsnip stated is American and i also have a Thai ID number. ( yes, the same number that are found on any body ID number- 13 or 16 digit i cann't remember)

The color of the Home Regitration Book ( Taa Bian Ban ) is blue or green ( can't remember) and not yellow like most foreigner have. I'm listed as family member and my step sister is the head of household.

first of all, i wanted you all to know my intention. i want thai ID or Thai citizenship so i can go back and work in thailand. Thailand are cracking down on foreign labor as they want to promote thai work force.

now to my questions:

i left to thailand in May 2008 and heard news of change in Thai laws.

a person in a unique situation like my self are able to get thai ID card - eventhough, i'm not thai or have thai citizen. This is not a rumer and this a confirm report and it was on the thai news.

i want information of this. could not find it any where. this information is relatively new and have not been discuss anywhere yet....i think. if it had, let me know and post the link or information so we all can learn aobut it.

my second questions is how to get thai citizenship?

first of all i want to know what i need to do and how to do. i already undetstand that there is paper work involve and a lot of redtape. but please consider that my case is unique and not like other foreigner that would like to get thai citizenship.

I have not lived in thailand for more than five year since i left in 1993.

i have no work permit for the last 3 year -hence, i have never work in thailand.

i have not paid tax or file tax for the past 3 year - hence i never work in thailand and don't have my salary sent to thailand within that working year.

I do have close relation to thailand, thai people and religion.

I can speak, read and write thai and attened thai school.

i can sing the national anthum

i have thai mother and step brother/ sister/ relative that can vouch for me.

i was born in thailand ! and have document to support it.

i an engineer and working on getting my degree/ licence.

and most important...Do i have to renounce my U.S. Citizenship in order to received Thai citizenship?

(US laws allow dual citizenship while thai law does not. ) i've read everywhere and no one mention that i have to renounce my current citizenship. all they mention is how to get thai citizenship. i ahve one guy said that his wife doesn't have to renounce the citizenship. but that is not confirm report and his situation is not like me.

phew... that's all i can think of.

i know there a lot of people who share the same situation as myself or in identical situation.

this would really open door if there is a good way to do this. i really do need this so i can move to thailand and live there.

thx in advance and will check this regularly

jerry

[britmaveric]

You are a thai citizen, just need to go to thai embassy with relevant paperwork and get your passport. (not a foreigner by any means)

[mikethevigoman]

Is this true anyone ? "US laws allow dual citizenship while thai law does not."

[lopburi3]

Thai and American laws do not allow dual citizenship - but they do not prevent it either. So in both cases it is accepted.

You having a Thai mother makes you a Thai citizen (regardless of birthplace). If in Thailand believe first step of obtaining that Thai ID card (that you seem to have a number for) and then obtaining a Thai passport to use on your next entry. If overseas you can obtain the Thai passport without the ID card by using your birth certificate. This is not a new 2008 law but has been the case for a number of years.

[jerryb78]

You are a thai citizen, just need to go to thai embassy with relevant paperwork and get your passport. (not a foreigner by any means)

are you sure i can do this? if so, i'll fly to Los Angeles next week and get it done! but please understand that my thai birth certificate stated that my citizenship is " American" and not Thai.

also, my Home registry also said that my citizennship is " American" and not thai.

when i was in thailand for 5 week starting april 2008 to may 2008. i tried many time to get thai ID. I tried in Pattaya Beach and Again in Bangkok. They said that i'm not Thai and i can't have thai ID!! period! i show them my document and they even ran my thai ID number in the system. the number is a valid number, but it also stated in the system that I am an american and not Thai.

now after i left thailand in june 2008, my sister called me and said that they change the law and that now i can get thai ID. but the detail were kinda hazy and unclear. also, the city hall around the counrty does not have this information for me to pursue. it 's a new topic and information have not been distributed or study.

so, one more time - do you know for a fact that a person in my situation can get thai passport?

also, reguarding the new thai law in 2008...can anyone give any detail?

Edited July 20, 2008 by jerryb78

[samran]

There were no changes in the law in 2008. The last time the nationality law was changed was in 1992, but by rights, you should have thai nationaity given you were born to at least one Thai parent. For most people claiming their rights to Thai nationality is a simple matter of producing a birth certificate which says that you are. It sounds like your dads actions back when you are born have mucked up that a little.

A couple of questions.

- Are you SURE your birth certificate says that you are 'american'? The reason I ask this is that Thai birth certificates usually say either that you are 'Thai' or it says you are 'not eligible for Thai nationality'. I've not heard the authorities putting another nationality on the birth certificate. So the first step is to check again the paperwork...

- Your case is even more bizzare as as far as I know it is impossible for non-thai nationals to get on the blue tabieen baan unless you have permanent residency in Thailand. What type of visa is in your passport when you come to Thailand???

I beleive the best place to go is the police special branch division in Bangkok on Rama 1 Rd. They have a nationality section there and they will know what you need to do.

One option I beleive is viable is to get a DNA test to prove that you are a Thai national. Given that citizenship is passed down from the parent, if you can prove that you are a child of a Thai parent this way then I beleive that the correct documentation can be provided. Look up a member of Thai visa named 'greenwanderer' who went through the same process.

As for giving up your us nationalty 'to get' Thai nationality. By rights, you are already thai. As such, you just have to go about proving you are . Doing this does not bestow on you Thai nationality. Given you already have 'it' you don't even have to think about renunciation (which is not required by Thai law anyway...)

[lopburi3]

Given you already have 'it' you don't even have to think about renunciation (which is not required by Thai law anyway...)

Before there is any question: it is not required under American law either.

[jerryb78]

here is a copy of my thai birth certificate - please see attached file. this is my first upload- hope it work.

i which i can just past it directly on here so you can see it as you are reading the message. if you know how,let me know

p.s. it's in thai, so i hope you gusy can read thai

Jerry_Birth_Certificate_test_1.bmp

Edited July 20, 2008 by jerryb78

[jerryb78]

and here is the copy of my Taa Bian Ban - home registry. and yes.!!!my name is in the Blue book version and not the yellow. don't ask me how it got there. even the people at the city hall were puzzle. my younger sister name is not in this book , but it in the yellow book. I'm the only one in this book.

the head of household is my step sister- the oldest, my mother is also in there, but as a household member.

see attached file. you will see that my nationality is american, but i have Thai ID number

p.s. it's in thai, so i hope you gusy can read thai

Edited July 21, 2008 by sbk
document removed--sbk

[samran]

best to speak with special branch on rama 1 Rd in Bangkok, across from central world plaza. The nationality division there can advise you. Thai law is clear that when one parent is a Thai national, then the child automatically attains Thai nationality. Given the paperwork is the way that it is, then you will have to see what can be done to amend it.

[jerryb78]

- Are you SURE your birth certificate says that you are 'american'? The reason I ask this is that Thai birth certificates usually say either that you are 'Thai' or it says you are 'not eligible for Thai nationality'. I've not heard the authorities putting another nationality on the birth certificate. So the first step is to check again the paperwork...

ans.) yes, i'm positive that my thai B-cert. said that my nationailty is American- at my father request. the only thing i can think of is that he (my dad) was affraid that i did not get american citizen. as you know, back in the old day, a guy would have given up anything to get a US citizenship. people pay other people big money, given up their house and land just to get US citizen.

A lot for fraud, especially with servicemen who served in SE Asia, who are paid large sum of money to marry thai women so they can come to USA. War bride is one thing, but this was just fraud.

- Your case is even more bizzare as as far as I know it is impossible for non-thai nationals to get on the blue tabieen baan unless you have permanent residency in Thailand. What type of visa is in your passport when you come to Thailand???

ans.) i wish i have the copy of of the front cover of the home registry so i can show you that the front cover is indeed Blue and not yellow. as far as visa go, i don't know what kind of visa i got when i was a kid growing up. but i cna tell you that once a year, i got to skip school and go spent all morning at the Immigration office at Soi 6 in Pattaya. so i would have to assume that my visa expire once a year. later on, i remember that i went to the poilice station in Banglamung, Chonburi to get my self fingerprinted - i was aobut 10 or 12year old at the time. but as far as i know, i don't have a permanent resident status in thailand. My father have tried to get one for years, but even he did not get one. we own bar and restarunt in Pattaya before i was even born and he still did not get permanent resident book.

p.s. i did not come from outside the country. i was born and raise in thailand

I beleive the best place to go is the police special branch division in Bangkok on Rama 1 Rd. They have a nationality section there and they will know what you need to do.

and.) i'm not sure about this. going to police station will be super confuseing as i would not know how to answer a lot of questions. it was all my parent doing. beside, i'm in california right now. be if it must, i'll ask my sister to go and have a look and see what she can find out. i recently talk to her and she said that she will visit the people at the city hall againa and try to get some answer. and , what would the police special brance know? i think this a matter of foreign affair or immigration or the city hall to sort out. correct me if i'm wrong

One option I beleive is viable is to get a DNA test to prove that you are a Thai national. Given that citizenship is passed down from the parent, if you can prove that you are a child of a Thai parent this way then I beleive that the correct documentation can be provided. Look up a member of Thai visa named 'greenwanderer' who went through the same process.

ans.) my dad pass on i have have dothing to test. they can probally test my mother, but rather not go there. DNA testing can before a more challangeing that i think. will leave this as a last resort.

As for giving up your us nationalty 'to get' Thai nationality. By rights, you are already thai. As such, you just have to go about proving you are . Doing this does not bestow on you Thai nationality. Given you already have 'it' you don't even have to think about renunciation (which is not required by Thai law anyway...)

[jerryb78]

best to speak with special branch on rama 1 Rd in Bangkok, across from central world plaza. The nationality division there can advise you. Thai law is clear that when one parent is a Thai national, then the child automatically attains Thai nationality. Given the paperwork is the way that it is, then you will have to see what can be done to amend it.

ok, if i send my sister there, i guess that she will need to have my b-cert. and home registry with her. but what sheould she ask them to do? i have no idea on how to go aobut this. how do i go about amending the old paper work or record?

any specific instruction and information needed would really help.

what do you think after seeing my b.cert and home registry? do you think i have a chance?

I was convince my this forum to go get my Thai passport. i will make prepairation to go to Thai counselate in LA. will bring hwat i have and i guess i will have to do a lot of argueing so they will see things my way. after reading what i have posted, do you stillthink that i still be able to get thai passport? any advise onthis? what do i need and what do i need to prepair? i will bring my mom with me as she is my only witness.

[samran]

best to speak with special branch on rama 1 Rd in Bangkok, across from central world plaza. The nationality division there can advise you. Thai law is clear that when one parent is a Thai national, then the child automatically attains Thai nationality. Given the paperwork is the way that it is, then you will have to see what can be done to amend it.

ok, if i send my sister there, i guess that she will need to have my b-cert. and home registry with her. but what sheould she ask them to do? i have no idea on how to go aobut this. how do i go about amending the old paper work or record?

any specific instruction and information needed would really help.

what do you think after seeing my b.cert and home registry? do you think i have a chance?

I was convince my this forum to go get my Thai passport. i will make prepairation to go to Thai counselate in LA. will bring hwat i have and i guess i will have to do a lot of argueing so they will see things my way. after reading what i have posted, do you stillthink that i still be able to get thai passport? any advise onthis? what do i need and what do i need to prepair? i will bring my mom with me as she is my only witness.

the police special branch section on Rama 1 Rd. They have a nationality section - and they are the first guys I'd go and see. They are responsible for making the applications for Thai citizenship (my wife has applied for Thai citizenship through them) and they know their stuff. Copies like you scanned are fine for starters.

I'd speak to the special branch section on how this may be recified - if at all, but I assume it can as there are many people (including myself) who have both passports. If they are unable to help you, then you should go to the immigration office at Suan Phlu and ask what can be done there.

The relevant nationality act is http://www.burmalibrary.org/docs3/THAILAND...onality_Act.htm

The first chapter is very clear on who can get Thai nationality:

Chapter 1. Acquisition of Thai Nationality

Section 7. The following persons acquire Thai nationality by birth:

(1) A person born of a father or a mother of Thai nationality, whether within or outside the Thai Kingdom;

All the best with it.

[oldbill]

Hello Jerry

My wife and I have read your birth certificate and ideed it does say that your nationality is American on the top line of the document as well as your father HOWEVER your mother is shown as a Thai national so you too are a Thai national no matter where on the globe you are born.

I would suggest that you take this document to you nearest Thai consulate and obtain a permit to travel. Once you arrive at Bangkok I would go to the Depatment of Foriegn Affairs and apply for you Thai passport. The Department is up around Chang Wattana ( excuse my spelling).

Your local Thai consulate should advise you if my advice is out of date.

My daughter was born out of Thailand to a Thai national but she is still Thai. We have a passport for the County we reside in but we will get her a Thai passport when we arrive in Bangkok.

It seems faily straight forward.

I hope this helps!

[jerryb78]

Hello Jerry

My wife and I have read your birth certificate and ideed it does say that your nationality is American on the top line of the document as well as your father HOWEVER your mother is shown as a Thai national so you too are a Thai national no matter where on the globe you are born.

I would suggest that you take this document to you nearest Thai consulate and obtain a permit to travel. Once you arrive at Bangkok I would go to the Depatment of Foriegn Affairs and apply for you Thai passport. The Department is up around Chang Wattana ( excuse my spelling).

Your local Thai consulate should advise you if my advice is out of date.

My daughter was born out of Thailand to a Thai national but she is still Thai. We have a passport for the County we reside in but we will get her a Thai passport when we arrive in Bangkok.

It seems faily straight forward.

I hope this helps!

thx for reply. but it confuse the hel_l out of me when i tried to get thai ID card when i was there in april/ May of this year (2008). they told me stright out that i'm not thai. I wnt to the city hall in Pattaya and also in Prakanong District near my house. Should i say that these people don't know what they are talking about?

any how, i will contact the thai counsolate in Los Angeles, California and i'll go from there. i've just return from 5 week vacation to thailand, i doubt my boss let me fly back to thailand for another 2-4 week. if i go, my mom have to go with me. it starting to look expensive and nothing i can do about it till next year. a real bummer when goverment official tells me one thing and the actuallity is another.

i will ask my sister do do a little recon work withthe special police head quarter on Rama I rd as previously suggested and i'll work on trying to obtain information and get thai passport on my end. i'll keep this forum posted after i talk to the people at the counsulate. i don't even mind flying or driving down there as long as i get some definate answer. anybody got anything to add or advice, please let me know.

[teej]

If you have a Thai ID number and are on a Tabien Ban, then there isn't a reason why you should not be able to get your Thai ID (bat prachachon). I don't know what jerk you spoke to who said you were not Thai and denied you your birthright Thai I.D., but simply put, you have a right to claim Thai Nationality.

Once you get your Thai ID card, it's as simple as going to the Passport place on Changwattana Rd., swiping your bat prachachon, and going thru the queues. Takes 15 mins nowadays. An you get your passport in a week. They may ask you to show your American Passport when you pick up your Thai one, but that is just a formality to prove that you were born somewhere (in the case where you don't have your Birth Certificate, which you do).

To answer your main question: NO, you do not have to denounce your US citizenship.

I've been thru the process and my experience is just as I stated above.

I currently hold 3 Passports (well 2 Passports and one Permanent ID card), with another Passport eligible in 5 years. Never been a problem with any one of them, and never have I had to denounce citizenship. The more the better!!! Makes traveling easy.

Good luck, it should not be a problem. You have the documents to claim citizenship, but if you run into a problem with a certain individual along the process, know that $$$ paves the way in Thailand.

[jerryb78]

Good luck, it should not be a problem. You have the documents to claim citizenship, but if you run into a problem with a certain individual along the process, know that $$$ paves the way in Thailand.

i tried taking the thai route offering tea money - promissing that i'll tripple or quadrouple their monthly salary, but none would take the risk. (i was prepairi to pay ten time their salary to get it done. cost did not matter . ) this is due to what happen within thai goverment during the last regiam/ previous prime minister. he did one hel_l of clean up. they told me that hey want to keep their head on their shoulder, so they rather not take the risk.

well, if they know what they were doing and know that i have everyright to claim my birthright. they would have taken my offering and not tell me that i can claim my birthright. it would have been breeze. I didnot have the time, money and patient to deal with thai Law firm, so i did not approach them. (i hate them with a every onze of my blood, but it was a necesseary evil i guess) on my next run to thailand, i will probally try everything you guys suggest, and then us lawyer as a very ...very ...last resort)

[Mrjlh]

and here is the copy of my Taa Bian Ban - home registry. and yes.!!!my name is in the Blue book version and not the yellow. don't ask me how it got there. even the people at the city hall were puzzle. my younger sister name is not in this book , but it in the yellow book. I'm the only one in this book.

the head of household is my step sister- the oldest, my mother is also in there, but as a household member.

see attached file. you will see that my nationality is american, but i have Thai ID number

p.s. it's in thai, so i hope you gusy can read thai

A word to the wise, Jerryb78. Not a good idea to post any official documents to any message board. I strongly suggest you use the edit button and remove them. Low quality pic OK bu not scanned Docs.

[GarryP]

My son was born in Thailand in 1981. At that time having a foreign father, me, automatically resulted in his birth certificate being marked as a British citizen. Even though his mother is Thai, he had no right under Thai law to Thai citizenship at that time. A few years down the road during the time of the Anan Panyarachun government the laws changed and my son became entitled to Thai citizenship, through his mother, which would be your case.

We had to have our son's birth certificate and Tabian Bahn updated to show his new citizenship. In most cases a very simple process, although not in mine due to official screw ups in the spelling of my, my wife's and my son's surname (the same surname by the way) in various official documents. In your case I assume you would be able to work something out with the Thai Embassy and when you get here just process the change of your citizenship at your local Amphur.

Edited July 21, 2008 by GarryP

[anthonyu]

Hi Jerryb78,

My situation was similar to yours. Born to Thai father and Malaysian mother but my birth certificate was marked as Thai. I moved to Australia and am still an Australian citizen. Also have my name in the Tabien Baan the whole time since I moved.

The way I got my ID was to go to the Thai consulate in Sydney with my birth certificate and my Tabien Baan, where they gave me a passport so I could enter Thailand as a Thai national. After that I went to the registration office that's listen in the Thabien Baan and they gave me my ID based on my passport. After that a 300 baht fine for skipping out on military service and another day waiting in the sun for them not to draft you and you're all set to work in Thailand.

Note - you WILL need the military exemption note to work here as a Thai national.

Edited July 21, 2008 by anthonyu

[sbk]

and here is the copy of my Taa Bian Ban - home registry. and yes.!!!my name is in the Blue book version and not the yellow. don't ask me how it got there. even the people at the city hall were puzzle. my younger sister name is not in this book , but it in the yellow book. I'm the only one in this book.

the head of household is my step sister- the oldest, my mother is also in there, but as a household member.

see attached file. you will see that my nationality is american, but i have Thai ID number

p.s. it's in thai, so i hope you gusy can read thai

A word to the wise, Jerryb78. Not a good idea to post any official documents to any message board. I strongly suggest you use the edit button and remove them. Low quality pic OK bu not scanned Docs.

Agreed, I have removed them as the edit function would have expired for jerry at this point.

[Arkady]

No doubt you are entitled to Thai nationality by virtue of having a Thai parent. Nobody can take that right away under the Nationality Act, regardless of what it says on your birth cert or tabian baan, certainly not junior officials. But the amphur officials where you applied for an ID card obviously don't know how to handle your case and think the easiest thing to do is just block you. I would certainly see if the Thai Consulate can issue a passport as first port of call. I don't know, if they will need an ID card, since you are old enough to require one. If so, you will have to apply in Thailand. In this case, Special Branch might be able to help, although the nationality dept at Rama I Road processes nationality applications from foreigners who want to become naturalized, not those who are already Thai like yourself but want the appropriate documentation. Immigration may also we worth talking to. If you continue to get blocked by amphur officials, you will have to find a way to go over their heads to the Interior Ministry. Here Special Branch may be able to put you in touch with the right people in the Interior Ministry, since foreign applicants have no way to contact the Interior Ministry direct. Their applications are forwarded to the Ministry by Special Branch. If you really want it, you will certainly get it but you may have to be persistent and wait a while. I knew a woman who was entitled to Thai nationality by virtue of having been born in Thailand to foreign parents before 1973 when the law changed to stop Indochinese refugees born in Thai camps from getting Thai nationality. She had returned to Thailland on a work permit and wanted to take up her Thai nationality for the first time. She was repeatedly blocked by officials who variously argued that she was not entitled at all or that her entitlement had lapsed since she had not taken up Thai citizenship from birth and had gone to live abroad as a foreign national. After two years of pushing, she got her ID card and passport. She used lawyers but I would only do that as a last resort.

Last but not least, if you are male you will need to get a certificate of exemption from military service which should be possible since you are now too old for military service and have a good excuse e.g. were living in the US as an American citizen.

[jerryb78]

No doubt you are entitled to Thai nationality by virtue of having a Thai parent. Nobody can take that right away under the Nationality Act, regardless of what it says on your birth cert or tabian baan, certainly not junior officials. But the amphur officials where you applied for an ID card obviously don't know how to handle your case and think the easiest thing to do is just block you. I would certainly see if the Thai Consulate can issue a passport as first port of call. I don't know, if they will need an ID card, since you are old enough to require one. If so, you will have to apply in Thailand. In this case, Special Branch might be able to help, although the nationality dept at Rama I Road processes nationality applications from foreigners who want to become naturalized, not those who are already Thai like yourself but want the appropriate documentation. Immigration may also we worth talking to. If you continue to get blocked by amphur officials, you will have to find a way to go over their heads to the Interior Ministry. Here Special Branch may be able to put you in touch with the right people in the Interior Ministry, since foreign applicants have no way to contact the Interior Ministry direct. Their applications are forwarded to the Ministry by Special Branch. If you really want it, you will certainly get it but you may have to be persistent and wait a while. I knew a woman who was entitled to Thai nationality by virtue of having been born in Thailand to foreign parents before 1973 when the law changed to stop Indochinese refugees born in Thai camps from getting Thai nationality. She had returned to Thailland on a work permit and wanted to take up her Thai nationality for the first time. She was repeatedly blocked by officials who variously argued that she was not entitled at all or that her entitlement had lapsed since she had not taken up Thai citizenship from birth and had gone to live abroad as a foreign national. After two years of pushing, she got her ID card and passport. She used lawyers but I would only do that as a last resort.

Last but not least, if you are male you will need to get a certificate of exemption from military service which should be possible since you are now too old for military service and have a good excuse e.g. were living in the US as an American citizen.

i do understand that i'm too old for military service , but how do i go about getting the letter releasing me from the Thai Draft Board ? i don't see it as a big obstical as i also have previous - serius medical condition. I had ALL - Luekemia and been in remission for quite sometime now. I relap twice but now have clean bill of health.

i can argue my case on medical condition if they ever ask why i never register my self for millitary service + i was already over sea. i can probally contact my old doctor to write up a letter. it probally not much, but it would not hurt to have such letter on hand. it would be a perfect excuse to go to Fresno, California.

i thx the Admin for removing the B.Cert. and Home registry i posted. I will make another version where information are edit and posted here. woudl be good example for other in the future.

[WalterTP]

Hello Jerry

My wife and I have read your birth certificate and ideed it does say that your nationality is American on the top line of the document as well as your father HOWEVER your mother is shown as a Thai national so you too are a Thai national no matter where on the globe you are born.

I would suggest that you take this document to you nearest Thai consulate and obtain a permit to travel. Once you arrive at Bangkok I would go to the Depatment of Foriegn Affairs and apply for you Thai passport. The Department is up around Chang Wattana ( excuse my spelling).

Your local Thai consulate should advise you if my advice is out of date.

My daughter was born out of Thailand to a Thai national but she is still Thai. We have a passport for the County we reside in but we will get her a Thai passport when we arrive in Bangkok.

It seems faily straight forward.

I hope this helps!

thx for reply. but it confuse the hel_l out of me when i tried to get thai ID card when i was there in april/ May of this year (2008). they told me stright out that i'm not thai. I wnt to the city hall in Pattaya and also in Prakanong District near my house. Should i say that these people don't know what they are talking about?

any how, i will contact the thai counsolate in Los Angeles, California and i'll go from there. i've just return from 5 week vacation to thailand, i doubt my boss let me fly back to thailand for another 2-4 week. if i go, my mom have to go with me. it starting to look expensive and nothing i can do about it till next year. a real bummer when goverment official tells me one thing and the actuallity is another.

i will ask my sister do do a little recon work withthe special police head quarter on Rama I rd as previously suggested and i'll work on trying to obtain information and get thai passport on my end. i'll keep this forum posted after i talk to the people at the counsulate. i don't even mind flying or driving down there as long as i get some definate answer. anybody got anything to add or advice, please let me know.

Jerry,

Go to the Thai consulate in LA with all of your paperwork, they are far more likely to act on your request than the local officials who can not or will not think outside the box.

I speak from personal experience. My Thai wife and I are living in Thailand with our two grandchildren, born from our 1/2 Thai daughter and American father. When we tried to get them Thai birth certificates here in Thailand we were told " no way" ,their mother must be here to apply. We sent the paperwork off to the consulate in NYC and they issued the birth certificates. They now have ID cards and Thai passports in addition to their US passports.

Go for it kid!

[samran]

another option to think about which others have suggested is to perhaps try calling the emabassy in Washington DC and see if they can issue you a passport based on your circumstances where it is clear that you are the child of a thai national, and hence entitled to Thai nationality yourself. (The major problem of course is that your offical paperwork says otherwise, but the law is the law).

In terms of talking to people who know about nationality law, in the past 8 years of being here and getting 'into the system' the people who know most about Thai nationality issues are ranked in the following order

= 1) Thai embassies overseas (as they deal with entitilements to nationality issues on a daily basis)

= 1) Police speacial branch IN BANGKOK given that they deal with naturalisations.

3) Immigration at Suan Phlu. You have to find the specific office/person there however.

.

.

.

.

There is a huge gap between those top three and the rest.

4) The Ampur people (if you get the right one) can be OK. They were certainly fine in doing the basic administrative stuff and there seems to be a handbook for a variety of ways of getting people an ID card. My two experinces have been me getting my first ID card and getting on the tabieen baan when I was 30 (having been born in australia) as well as my mum getting her first ID card in 2008 after 40 years of living in Australia. But in my case, they had to call up immigration just to ask if it was alright given that I had two passports.

5) Town hall/other government departments. Most government people I have met in Thailand plain out think that dual nationality is illegal and know little about the issue. Most people don't even know there was a amendment to the relevant laws in 1992.

As for obtaining a passport in Thailand, it is going to be very difficult without an ID card. While embassies can issue them on the strenght of evidence of Thai naitonality, to get one in Thailand requires an ID card given that the passport office takes the information off the tabieen baan database. So for in Thailand at least, no ID = no passport.

[ralfbkk]

What keeps me wondering is the fact, if Jerry gets his Thai Passport and comes to Thailand, what will the Military say about his 2 year service ? Does he still need to serve ? I understand that every Thai Male has to join the forces for 2 years ( not if he is sick, or got a

lucky draw etc. - thats understood).

[samran]

What keeps me wondering is the fact, if Jerry gets his Thai Passport and comes to Thailand, what will the Military say about his 2 year service ? Does he still need to serve ? I understand that every Thai Male has to join the forces for 2 years ( not if he is sick, or got a

lucky draw etc. - thats understood).

As a base, there is the requirement for all Thai males between 18 and 45 to report for the draft. Given most people live in Thailand, they do so when they are 18, but that obligation extends if for some reason you can't report when you are 18. You pick a ball out of a hat. Red ball means you get drafted for 2 years, black ball means you are don't get drafted for active duty, but rather you are released into a non-active army reserves unit (which all Thai maes are members of)

People who have naturalised as Thai citizens are exempt.

There is a heirarchy of exemptions.

- Having undertake three years of cadets at high school means that you have done the equivalent of the draft.

- Studying at univestity exempts you from attending the draft while you are studying, but you are expected to report once you graduate

- For all intents and purposes, being outside of the country is a valid excuse

- You can also avoid the draft if you volunteer. This is especially useful for those with a university degree as you only have to serve six months if you volunteer. This is good for those who are risk adverse or those who are expecting that a history of service is needed on their CV (ie politicians, certain public service careers, some movie stars get better contracts if they need to be spokespeople for the government).

- Being disabled or medically unfit

- Having undertaken the equialent military service in a foreign force.

For those who have made it to their year of their 30th birthday then they are in the clear too. While you still have to report for the draft, by being over 30 you are essentially classed as unfit to be drafted and imediately released if you happen to pick the wrong ball.

In my case I didnt attend the draft having lived in Australia till I was 30. Rather that waiting for draft day, I went to the local recruitment centre in my amput, reported, paid a small fine (100 baht for not doing so earlier) and then given my exeption papers (took a day of pissing about).

[Twiggy44]

Dear Jerry,

Your case is same as mine, I was born in Thailand with a Thai mother and a Filipino father.When I was 5 yrs old I was sent to the Philippines, my parents got devorce.I was bearing Philippine passport that time. Then last 2002 i came back Thailand,with the Philippine passport.I'd search for my Thai ID and all the documents,it took me 4 yrs to get my Thai ID as I can't read write my Thai speaking is very survival.Thanks to a Thai female friend who gave all her best to could help me get my Thai ID.

Now,after I got my Thai ID back i'm working as a local Thai English teacher.What happened to my Philippine passport is here.If I want to keep my Phil passport I have to obtain a work permit and a work visa,then my Phil.Passport is still valid.But as I am working as a Thai I am also using the same name as what I have on my Thai ID.Now my Philippine passport has the same name,but I was married in the Philippines so I have my husband family name on it. It's very complecated,because the Thai government do not acknowledge my marriage from the Philippines.They said I am not married in Thailand so I am single in Thailand. They only acknowledge my kids.Very funny isn't I have children but I don't have a husband.On my philippine passport I am married on my Thai ID I am single.So I can not get a work permit and visa just to keep my Philippine passport.So I went to the Philippine embassy and explained everything the filipino staff frm the embassy said theres no problem.If I want to go back Philippines and use my Philippine passport it's still all o.k..

So I'd applied for the Thai passport and I went into a hel_l of a lot of explaination I guess you can imagine this. I have all my THai documents on their computer system,even how hard they keep clicking anything on the system it say's I am a legal Thai citizen's.But they have a doubt because I can't write read Thai.You"re right Jerry home registration is blue in color it has all the names of the people who are in that same house.The Thai DFA needs this document as a must,now they will ask you about your US passport if you have.All you need to say is,you had it canceled and gave it back to the US government.This is what I'd told them (the staff's frm the Thai passporting office).They are asking where is my Philippine passport and they want this. I told them no more I had it already surrendered to the Philippine embassy.As it was a property of the government of the Philippines. Thai goverment has nothing to do with that. Same as the Thai passport Philippine goverment has nothing to do with this as well.I pleaded them to please issue a Thai passport for me. Jerry as long as you have all your Thai legal documents they can not do anything but issue your Thai passport.Just don't tell them if you still have your US passport as they won't really give you a Thai passport.

It's very easy to apply for a Thai passport,just show your Thai ID..then everything will be fine.If you can write read Thai characters.They will just swipe your Thai ID and all your info will appear on the computer system.No more many questions to me I'd been thru a niddle pin whole.I have no one here in Thailand.I don't know the where abouts of my mother and my siblings if I have from her.From my father side I am an only daughter. Just remember that you do not have your US passport anymore....

Good luck man...now I learned I am not alone with the case like this...I am not acknowledge as a Thai even I have a Thai ID and passport and half of my blood is a Thai.Because I can not read write and speak fluently in Thai. I am teaching English for free to help my Thai countrymen/women learn the English language.I'd choose to have my optional retirement from the Philippine National Police,thinking that I can help my homeland. Or contribute something before i'll die,...........

Endlessoul,

[lopburi3]

Sorry but do not understand why you are hiding your PH passport. There is no requirement for a Thai not to have another passport - thousands do. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs (passport office) is well aware of dual nationality and deals with it every day. Unless the Philippines does not allow it? Normally the place to obtain a Thai passport is at Embassy in the country you live - no ID card required for that. Although understand Thai Embassy in Manila is not considered very customer friendly.

It is no longer required to change ID card to Mrs. - your Thai ID card can now say Miss even if you are married. Does not make sense to me but believe that became law in the last several months.

Why do they not acknowledge your marriage? Because of the name misspellings? You may be able to take your marriage certificate to PH Embassy and have it certified and then register with MFA and that should be acceptable I would think.

[jerryb78]

Dear Jerry,

Your case is same as mine, I was born in Thailand with a Thai mother and a Filipino father.When I was 5 yrs old I was sent to the Philippines, my parents got devorce.I was bearing Philippine passport that time. Then last 2002 i came back Thailand,with the Philippine passport.I'd search for my Thai ID and all the documents,it took me 4 yrs to get my Thai ID as I can't read write my Thai speaking is very survival.Thanks to a Thai female friend who gave all her best to could help me get my Thai ID.

Now,after I got my Thai ID back i'm working as a local Thai English teacher.What happened to my Philippine passport is here.If I want to keep my Phil passport I have to obtain a work permit and a work visa,then my Phil.Passport is still valid.But as I am working as a Thai I am also using the same name as what I have on my Thai ID.Now my Philippine passport has the same name,but I was married in the Philippines so I have my husband family name on it. It's very complecated,because the Thai government do not acknowledge my marriage from the Philippines.They said I am not married in Thailand so I am single in Thailand. They only acknowledge my kids.Very funny isn't I have children but I don't have a husband.On my philippine passport I am married on my Thai ID I am single.So I can not get a work permit and visa just to keep my Philippine passport.So I went to the Philippine embassy and explained everything the filipino staff frm the embassy said theres no problem.If I want to go back Philippines and use my Philippine passport it's still all o.k..

So I'd applied for the Thai passport and I went into a hel_l of a lot of explaination I guess you can imagine this. I have all my THai documents on their computer system,even how hard they keep clicking anything on the system it say's I am a legal Thai citizen's.But they have a doubt because I can't write read Thai.You"re right Jerry home registration is blue in color it has all the names of the people who are in that same house.The Thai DFA needs this document as a must,now they will ask you about your US passport if you have.All you need to say is,you had it canceled and gave it back to the US government.This is what I'd told them (the staff's frm the Thai passporting office).They are asking where is my Philippine passport and they want this. I told them no more I had it already surrendered to the Philippine embassy.As it was a property of the government of the Philippines. Thai goverment has nothing to do with that. Same as the Thai passport Philippine goverment has nothing to do with this as well.I pleaded them to please issue a Thai passport for me. Jerry as long as you have all your Thai legal documents they can not do anything but issue your Thai passport.Just don't tell them if you still have your US passport as they won't really give you a Thai passport.

It's very easy to apply for a Thai passport,just show your Thai ID..then everything will be fine.If you can write read Thai characters.They will just swipe your Thai ID and all your info will appear on the computer system.No more many questions to me I'd been thru a niddle pin whole.I have no one here in Thailand.I don't know the where abouts of my mother and my siblings if I have from her.From my father side I am an only daughter. Just remember that you do not have your US passport anymore....

Good luck man...now I learned I am not alone with the case like this...I am not acknowledge as a Thai even I have a Thai ID and passport and half of my blood is a Thai.Because I can not read write and speak fluently in Thai. I am teaching English for free to help my Thai countrymen/women learn the English language.I'd choose to have my optional retirement from the Philippine National Police,thinking that I can help my homeland. Or contribute something before i'll die,...........

Endlessoul,

boy!!! talk about complication!!! i have never heard of a mess like your case. Wow! the thai government just keeping throwing brick at you and you manage to dodge a few and at the same time take a few hit. but you survived!! you got your thai ID and Thai passport. that was one case of hardship. Congradulation to you. I'm heading down to Los Angeles tomorrow to the thai counsulate and will probally make a fresh start on wendesday morning. i got my document and i got my witness. will let you guys know what happen