Do I Need To Renounce My Citizenship To Get Thai Citizenship ?

[jantrevor]

Most countries do not accept renunciation. When I became an American citizen (MANY years ago) I had to renounce my UK citizenship. However, the UK does not count the renunciation so I applied, and received, a British passport.

These days the US does not require renunciation when you become an American.

So, even if Thailand makes you give up your US citizenship the US keeps you as a US citizen. and you can apply for a new US passport.

[OldenAtwoody]

Hi Jerry:

Lucky you. You will get your Thai citizenship, because, in my opinion, you can choose as an adult. You were not given the choice as a child.

The only way to renounce US citizenship is to walk in the Embassy and make a written declaration. They will give you hel_l and try to dissuade you (rightly so), because usually it's done in anger or haste.

Why would you not want to renounce? The protection of dual citizenship.

Why would you want to? You will still be responsible to FILE and PAY US taxes until you croak, even if you never go back.....

Talk to an attorney. If you renounce you may not be able to collect Social Security.

WARNING: The US just passed (or will soon) a rule that if you sell a US real estate property after renouncing citizenship, you will be taxed IMMEDIATEY on the capital gain as regular income - no deferment. If you are in this boat, sell well before renoncing!

Think about the financial ramifications, not the citizenship.

I think you will get Thai citizenship. If you have to renounce to them, it does NOT count in the eyes of the USA. Go ask a Consular Officer at the US Embassy in BKK.

Edited July 23, 2008 by OldenAtwoody

[OldenAtwoody]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

Official:

Dual Nationality

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.

Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad.

[OldenAtwoody]

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship

A. THE IMMIGRATION & NATIONALITY ACT

Section 349(a)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) (8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(5)) is the section of law that governs the ability of a United States citizen to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship. That section of law provides for the loss of nationality by voluntarily performing the following act with the intent to relinquish his or her U.S. nationality:

"(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state , in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State" (emphasis added). B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
   
2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
   
3. sign an oath of renunciation
   

Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below.

C. REQUIREMENT - RENOUNCE ALL RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES

In the case of Colon v. U.S. Department of State , 2 F.Supp.2d 43 (1998), plaintiff was a United States citizen and resident of Puerto Rico, who executed an oath of renunciation before a consular officer at the U.S. Embassy in Santo Domingo. The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia rejected Colon’s petition for a writ of mandamus directing the Secretary of State to approve a Certificate of Loss of Nationality in the case because the plaintiff wanted to retain one of the primary benefits of U.S. citizenship while claiming he was not a U.S. citizen. The Court described the plaintiff as a person, "claiming to renounce all rights and privileges of United States citizenship, [while] Plaintiff wants to continue to exercise one of the fundamental rights of citizenship, namely to travel freely throughout the world and when he wants to, return and reside in the United States." See also Jose Fufi Santori v. United States of America , 1994 U.S. App. LEXIS 16299 (1994) for a similar case.

A person who wants to renounce U.S. citizenship cannot decide to retain some of the privileges of citizenship, as this would be logically inconsistent with the concept of renunciation. Thus, such a person can be said to lack a full understanding of renouncing citizenship and/or lack the necessary intent to renounce citizenship, and the Department of State will not approve a loss of citizenship in such instances.

D. DUAL NATIONALITY / STATELESSNESS

Persons intending to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality, they may be rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government. They may also have difficulty traveling as they may not be entitled to a passport from any country. Even if they were not stateless, they would still be required to obtain a visa to travel to the United States, or show that they are eligible for admission pursuant to the terms of the Visa Waiver Pilot Program (VWPP). If found ineligible for a visa or the VWPP to come to the U.S., a renunciant, under certain circumstances, could be barred from entering the United States. Nonetheless, renunciation of U.S. citizenship may not prevent a foreign country from deporting that individual back to the United States in some non-citizen status.

E. TAX & MILITARY OBLIGATIONS /NO ESCAPE FROM PROSECUTION

Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information). In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship will not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as United States citizens abroad.

F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.

G. IRREVOCABILITY OF RENUNCIATION

Finally, those contemplating a renunciation of U.S. citizenship should understand that the act is irrevocable, except as provided in section 351 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1483), and cannot be canceled or set aside absent successful administrative or judicial appeal. (Section 351( of the INA provides that an applicant who renounced his or her U.S. citizenship before the age of eighteen can have that citizenship reinstated if he or she makes that desire known to the Department of State within six months after attaining the age of eighteen. See also Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations, section 50.20).

Renunciation is the most unequivocal way in which a person can manifest an intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Please consider the effects of renouncing U.S. citizenship, described above, before taking this serious and irrevocable action. If you have any further questions regarding this matter, please contact:

Express Mail:

Director

Office of Policy Review and Inter-Agency Liaison (CA/OCS/PRI)

Overseas Citizens Services

Bureau of Consular Affairs

U.S. Department of State

4th Floor

2100 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20037

Phone: 202-736-9110

Fax: 202-736-9111

Email: [email protected]

Regular Mail

Director

Office of Policy Review and Inter-Agency Liaison (CA/OCS/PRI)

Overseas Citizens Services

Bureau of Consular Affairs

U.S. Department of State

SA-29, 4th Floor

Washington, D.C. 20520

[jerryb78]

hi guys. i'm in LA right now trying to get my thai passport as many other member of this forum has suggest to me.

they say, yes. i can get thai passport. but i have to get my paper work in order.

as i mention earlier that my citizenship on my thai B. cert. said i'm american, the same for the Thai home registry . they both said that i am american and not thai

people here at the counsulate said that not a problem, your mother is thai so it not a problem. But they told me to go get my nationality on my thai b.cert. change from American to thai. the same goes for the thai home registry.. ( you need to change the birth cert. first in order to change the home registry) they said to go back to thailand and get it done or sign a power of atturney to my sister and get it change.

after i get it change, send back the amended copy/ updated copy and we can issue a passport. So, i'm got stuck in a corner again. they only way out at this point of time is to sign a power of attoney to my sister and have her change it.

they said it not a big deal but i think this is a big deal!!! They said to go the the district where my b.cert (which was issue in Prakanong district, BKK) was issue and talk to the big boss at the city hall. he has the power to change and amend the birth certificate. he will then issue me a letter or document of some kind saying that my nationality is now thai.

I said i was in thailand 2 month aga in April/may 2008 and staff there said that i can't do it. Thai counsuler office told me that if there are a goverment official, then they should know that i have very right to claim thai citizenship. they should know the law. they should approve this with out even thinking twice. ofcourse i have to give them every scrap of paper that prove my relationship to my mom, dad, and thailand. the is what the Thai counsulate said.

i know they are trying to help and guild me in the right direction, but those stupid idiot in bangkok don't know their head for their ass. they will probally send my sister to min. of foreign affair, min. of interior and ect---basically, give my sister a run around till she speak to the right person.

for now, i did what i could and forward to document to my sister in thailand. What i really need now the a copy of Thai Nationality ACt of 2535. i need this copy in thai. so my sister can read and the stupid official can look it up. my sister has done a lot of things for me, but this is big, very big favor. can anybody help me out with this request? I have the Thai Nationality ACt of 2535 in english, but i need one in thai. if you have a link or the original copy, can you please forward me a copy? or you can email me if file is too big.

[Mario2008]

[/url]Look here for the Thai text.

http://www.krisdika.go.th/lawChar.jsp?head...;linkID=headLaw

Hope you find the link there.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Mario2008

[samran]

Jerry,

Good to hear that you have made progress. Fits into my post previously that embassy's, consulates and the special branch know about the law, and those at the Ampur don't (usually).

Here is what I suggest you do.

1) Go back to the consulate in LA. Re-explain this situation very, very nicely, highlighting the incompetence of the Ampur when you wen there last time. Explain to them that you will likely have the same trouble again, unless they get guidance from an authoritive source.

2) Suggest that there may be a way out. Ask very very nicely for them to write you an offical letter, stating that in their opinion, according to the Thai nationality act, people in your situation are eligible of Thai nationaly, and this has been made possible by the Thai natinalty act of 2535. If they say they can't, ask them for the contact details in Thailand of the person at the Ministry of Foregin Affairs who people in the Ampur can call to find out about this issue.

3) With this letter in hand, your sister (or you) should find it somewhat easier to get the documents ammended. Insist, insist, insist on seeing the nai ampur, or whoever is the big boss there. Don't let some junior flunky tell you 'no' unless they happen to be able to help you.

I say this as flashing the Thai nationality act about may actually be counter productive. If you read it closely there are clauses in there which appear to not allow dual nationality (but in which actual fact are not enforceable or don't apply to people you think they apply to). Trust me on this, I've had a flunky at city hall flash the thai nationality act in my face saying according to the act it was 'impossible' for me to have two nationalities, when in fact, they were totally wrong.

Anyway, sounds like you are making process!

[Twiggy44]

- Are you SURE your birth certificate says that you are 'american'? The reason I ask this is that Thai birth certificates usually say either that you are 'Thai' or it says you are 'not eligible for Thai nationality'. I've not heard the authorities putting another nationality on the birth certificate. So the first step is to check again the paperwork...

ans.) yes, i'm positive that my thai B-cert. said that my nationailty is American- at my father request. the only thing i can think of is that he (my dad) was affraid that i did not get american citizen. as you know, back in the old day, a guy would have given up anything to get a US citizenship. people pay other people big money, given up their house and land just to get US citizen.

A lot for fraud, especially with servicemen who served in SE Asia, who are paid large sum of money to marry thai women so they can come to USA. War bride is one thing, but this was just fraud.

- Your case is even more bizzare as as far as I know it is impossible for non-thai nationals to get on the blue tabieen baan unless you have permanent residency in Thailand. What type of visa is in your passport when you come to Thailand???

ans.) i wish i have the copy of of the front cover of the home registry so i can show you that the front cover is indeed Blue and not yellow. as far as visa go, i don't know what kind of visa i got when i was a kid growing up. but i cna tell you that once a year, i got to skip school and go spent all morning at the Immigration office at Soi 6 in Pattaya. so i would have to assume that my visa expire once a year. later on, i remember that i went to the poilice station in Banglamung, Chonburi to get my self fingerprinted - i was aobut 10 or 12year old at the time. but as far as i know, i don't have a permanent resident status in thailand. My father have tried to get one for years, but even he did not get one. we own bar and restarunt in Pattaya before i was even born and he still did not get permanent resident book.

p.s. i did not come from outside the country. i was born and raise in thailand

I beleive the best place to go is the police special branch division in Bangkok on Rama 1 Rd. They have a nationality section there and they will know what you need to do.

and.) i'm not sure about this. going to police station will be super confuseing as i would not know how to answer a lot of questions. it was all my parent doing. beside, i'm in california right now. be if it must, i'll ask my sister to go and have a look and see what she can find out. i recently talk to her and she said that she will visit the people at the city hall againa and try to get some answer. and , what would the police special brance know? i think this a matter of foreign affair or immigration or the city hall to sort out. correct me if i'm wrong

One option I beleive is viable is to get a DNA test to prove that you are a Thai national. Given that citizenship is passed down from the parent, if you can prove that you are a child of a Thai parent this way then I beleive that the correct documentation can be provided. Look up a member of Thai visa named 'greenwanderer' who went through the same process.

ans.) my dad pass on i have have dothing to test. they can probally test my mother, but rather not go there. DNA testing can before a more challangeing that i think. will leave this as a last resort.

As for giving up your us nationalty 'to get' Thai nationality. By rights, you are already thai. As such, you just have to go about proving you are . Doing this does not bestow on you Thai nationality. Given you already have 'it' you don't even have to think about renunciation (which is not required by Thai law anyway...)

Ohhhh God Jerry I don't know if you'd had read my previous posting about your problem.I did not read this properly and now I'd reread your posting..it's going to be a great problem buddy as it is stated on your Thai Bcert that your nationality is an American and not a Thai...even you have a Thai bcert. Being born in Thailand and learning all and everything about Thailand Jerry is not good enough to get a Thai cit. One example I am going to tell you..there's an American couple whos working near Chang Mai they are a volunteer serving Thailand..this article from the Bangkok post runs for few days. They have a daughter whos born in Thailand study in Thailand speak and write fluently in Thai...And now she is trying very hard to obtain a Thai nationality. Many times she tried to get this nationality but,many times also she gets denied..I wish you all the luck Jerry...I thought it was not stated on your Thai bcert that your nationality is a Thai...This is a very big mistake dear...lets crossed our fingers...

[lopburi3]

This poster is Thai - he has a Thai parent. The current law provides that with a Thai parent and you are Thai if/when you want. He should not have more than the normal bureaucratic issues.

[glyph]

I cannot imagine being legal age, not knowing what my nationality, and trying to figure out what my "birthright" is.

[jerryb78]

I cannot imagine being legal age, not knowing what my nationality, and trying to figure out what my "birthright" is.

well...thx for the sarcastic comment. i assume i should take this in a negative way... as it sound negative. unlike you, some of us have not got life all figure out. ((flame removed))

also, thx for the link of the Thai Nationality act 2535 3rd edition - in thai. this will be a big help when thai official at the city hall try to play game with me.

anyway, updateing on my progress today. as previously suggested my another member to get a letter from the thai counsulate stateing that i am of Thai decendent -through my mother, and that i have everyright to claim thai citizenship.

well, the counsulate could not offer/ issue me any letter saying that i'm thai. if they would or could, it would be as simple as taking this down to the city hall in my district and get my B.Cert change.

i then ask for contact at government office if i ran into trouble, they could not help me either. so i ask them again about the procedure of changeing my citizenship in my thai B. cert, the lady then tell me where to go and what todo. If i understand corrrectly, the big boss at the city or nai amphur has to power to change any information on my b. cert. If he is unsure for any reason, he then has to call the ministry of Interior as they are the one who give or say who can be thai. (not sure i'm saying it right.) ministry of foreign affair has nothing to do with citizenship. they only deal with international issue.

so, now i going to have my sister deal with this. i'll break the news to her this weekend when is off work and at home. you know, knowing the right people at the city hall now would be a big help as they can tell me who to talk to. city hall worker don't deal with complicated issue like mine everyday. it's going to take a lot of effert or a lot of tea money. if they want tea money, then i have no problem with it.

anyway, will keep this updat with what i learn

Edited July 25, 2008 by lopburi3
flame - lopburi3

[samran]

All the best with it. Sorry that the LA consultate didn't work out. I hope it wasn't too much trouble for you to get there and back!

Sounds like a plan. As I've said to others, just insist, insist, insist on seeing the correct people. You'll eventually get there. The obvious comparison is that if a child was born today in your situation, then they'd automatically get Thai nationality, so why shouldn't you? And yes, the interior ministry, not the MFA are the right team to speak to. My faux pas.

[thaiericsweden]

Jerry,

This is from Eric, your old friend from Pattaya.

I have dual nationality, Thai and Swedish.

I was able to get my first Thai ID card at age 30 after much difficulty.

Local government officials are always afraid of making a decision and getting into trouble because of that decision.

I see from your birth certificate that your nationality is American.

This can be changed, email me for info.

Thai law allows dual nationality and if I am not mistaken, the USA also has no restriction on dual nationality.

Regards,

Eric.

[jerryb78]

Jerry,

This is from Eric, your old friend from Pattaya.

I have dual nationality, Thai and Swedish.

I was able to get my first Thai ID card at age 30 after much difficulty.

Local government officials are always afraid of making a decision and getting into trouble because of that decision.

I see from your birth certificate that your nationality is American.

This can be changed, email me for info.

Thai law allows dual nationality and if I am not mistaken, the USA also has no restriction on dual nationality.

Regards,

Eric.

hi eric

long time no talk. sorry that i did get the chance to visit you in Phuket. i also emai you today, so reply back. i had to chage my email address get hack by some dude in malaysia. anyway, we can talk over the email.

update:

it has been about a year since i visit this page and i'm due for update. well, since i had my sister in BKK do some foot work at the city hall in Prakanong, BKK. she was about to talk to severial knowledgable people. but off course, i had her take a copy of the "thai nationality act " (written in thai ) with her. the job get pass up higher and higher until it reach the Nai Umphur ( the boss man). her review all the document i had and suggest a few thing that need to be prepair before we can move forward with my case. there is nodoubt that i can get thai citizen, but a lot of things got screw up over the year.

1.) the birth certificate - he said that this was completely wrong to begin with. my citizenship on my thai birth certificate should have said "thai" or " did not received citizenship". it should have never said " american". to fix this, he suggest that my sister file a police report at the local police department for missing/ or lost of birth certificate. and have my sister bring the copy of the police report to him.

since he can not issue new birth certificate, he will amend the current birth certificate by crossing off the "american citizenship part " and it will say " did not received citizenship" . by doing so, this open a new door for me to get thai citisenship. i can automatically get it to my mother as my mother is thai. i ask if i can amend it again so it will say " thai citizenship ", and he said it a wasted effert, there is no need as a letter will be type up for me stating that " i'm a thai citizen through my mother and it's my birth right". i forgot what thai government form that is, but it has all my information , parents info, witness info and my picture.

but to get this letter, i have to fly to BKK with my mom for an interview with "the boss man". he also suggest that i bring witness (that know me since birth) for interview. he said there is no problem, but we have to do it this way and it's the best way and most legit. after the interviw, i will be swarn an othe to the thai king. and everything will be official. i can go down stair to apply for thai ID the same day and should get it the same day. he suggest that i apply for thai passport while i'm here.

2.) the Tabian Ban (home registry book) - this was another head ache. it was done wrong in the first place. I should not not gotten my name in that book and i sholould not be issue a thai ID number. somebody screw this up years ago. but to fix this, i have to move my name under someone else tabian ban and list my self as a " visitor " or something like that. i can't remember the exact terms. Then, Move my name back to the same house. i don't understand this process, but from what i understood, i need to get rid of my Thai ID number. I will be assighned a visitor ID number for foreigner. after i get my "letter of thai citizenship" , i will be assighned a new thai ID number. i can now take this number to apply for thai ID card and Thail passport. a lengthly process of jumping back and forth. but the name is being move tempurary. just to clear the past history and start a fresh one. kinda make sense in a way. but that's the way the boss man wanted.

so, i just need to get my butt to thailand and get this done. he said that he will keep this case open until i can meke another visit to thailand. (he understand that there is a great burden and expense involved when traveling from USA.)

i was going to travel to thailand this May 2009, but do to financial hardship, i was unable to do so. my house payment and other bills must be paid first. the economy took a dump so i could not go. one of my investment in thailand went sour and another just barely hanging on, barely making money to pay rent and bill everymonth. If any one looking to buy harley davidson engine to build a custom chopper in thailand, drop me a line. i got 4 complete engine waiting to be build into a chopper or anything you want to build it into.

i also have another 2003 harley sportster 100th year edition that i import myself. have all proper paper work and tax and duty paid at thai custom.

( i have import 3 harley to thailand with in the past 1-1/2 year, i know what i'm doing)

i will try to get to thailand this coming summer 2010 or maybe winter 2010. and will try to give you guy update

[siamerican]

I'm formerly greenwanderer, which Samran referred about the DNA test.

Like Jerry, I had to jump through all kinds of bureaucratic bs and red tape to get what was mine, but really, it added that much more value to it in the end.

If you didn't have to work hard for it, what would it be worth? Every now and then, I meet mixed bloods or even full farangs who don't know the value of their Thai nationality--i.e. the ones that didn't have to sweat for it, and I tell you it makes me feel like the Vulcan whose emotions getting the best.

The other month, for instant, I met a full English bloke who some how inherited Thai nationality through his mum who had been here so many years doing whatever. The guy was an adult, boasting how easy he had it and didn't even speak/read/write Thai. It made me sick.

For my process, I spoke Thai to the official throughout and they asked if I could read/write when he was filling out the paperwork, however, they never formally tested me, though I was well ready to speak, sing, recite, read, write, whatever. BTW, I earned and learned my Thai as an adult.

I think the language requirement should be enforced on everyone who obtains, inheretance included. How can you call yourself Thai if you don't even speak the language, blood or no blood. they enforce it on the naturalizing but not necesarily their dependents whom inherit, which is a flaw if you ask me.

Well, Jerry and others in similar boats, just be patient and keep your eyes on the prize, Yearn, Learn, and Earn!

[PoorSucker]

The other month, for instant, I met a full English bloke who some how inherited Thai nationality through his mum who had been here so many years doing whatever. The guy was an adult, boasting how easy he had it and didn't even speak/read/write Thai. It made me sick.

If you were born i Thailand before 1974, you got Thai citizenship.

Even if both parents were falang.

[Arkady]

I am surprised by the objections that the birth certificate should state the OP's nationality as Thai or stateless, rather than American. Since he was born in 1978 he was not entitled to Thai nationality by descent from a Thai mother or by birth in Thailand. Revolutionary decree no. 338 of 13 December 1992 cancelled the right to Thai citizenship by birth in Thailand, leaving descent from a Thai father as the only way a person could be born Thai until The Nationality Act of 1992 gave Thai women the right to pass on their nationality by descent for the first time. Since this right was made retroacive the OP is clearly entitled to Thai nationality regardless of what nationality he was born with which is entirely irrelevant to the legal situation today.

Since his father is shown as American on his birth certificate, it is unlikely that the amphur at the time would have agreed to register the OP as stateless, knowing that his American father had acknowledged him as his son and was unlikely to deliberately leave him stateless, knowing that he was not entitled to Thai nationality. It seems odd that that the amphur know wants an implausible falsified version of the birth certificate to proceed with the ID card. The stateless pre-requisite is a throwback to that period from 1972 to 1992 when many children were indeed born technically stateless to Thai mothers in Thailand, if the foreign father did not acknowledge the child and apply for citizenship at his embassy or his country didn't allow citizenship for some reason. The Thai Nationality Act prior to 1992 had a provision to grant Thai citizenship to children born to Thai mothers and foreign fathers, if the foreign father did not acknowledge the child or the child would otherwise be stateless for some other reason. Generally use of this provision was only approved in cases where the details of the foreign father were not entered at all on the birth certificate. As a result Thai women married to foreigners in those days frequently avoided registering their marriages in Thailand and. on applying for birth certificates for their kids, claimed the father of their child was not around any more or even that they couldn't be sure who the father was - a humiliating experience but it got their kids Thai nationality without fuss (not registering or disclosing their marriages in Thailand was also necessary to safeguard these Thai women's rights to own land prior to 1999). The authorities had to grant Thai nationality in these cases because the thousands of children born to Thai women and departed Thai fathers were in the same boat, as they were not otherwise entitled to Thai nationality without the acknowledgement and ID card details of their absent fathers. However, this concept of statelessness at birth as a pre-requisite for Thai nationality is utterly irrelevant in the light of the 1992 Nationality Act but I suppose it should not come as no surprise that civil servants are living in a time warp or insisting on a totally pointless falsification of a document.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Arkady