Rude To Not Become Fluent In Thai

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Sorry mate but wai's are for thai's

So your at a party, meeting new people, every time you go to shake somebodys hand they don't respond. How would that make you feel?

So when somebody of equal or higher standing Wai's you and you don't respond, how do you think they feel (if you don't already know maybe I should expand, they feel your bl00dy rude), in your case speaking or not speaking Thai is irrelevant.

If you understand the concept regarding the "Wai" then you would understand that at the right time a "Wai" is simply being polite.

Solent,

Thai Wai Lesson #102 for your wider understanding: The less senior/lower status level person wais the senior person/higher level status person first...

With that in mind I rarely feel the need to kiss arse... Hence I'd largely agree with Roy. Personally I think it's a nice custom for Thais. It doesn't fit my own value system, so I don't do it as a rule, although occasionally it slips out!

[TheDon]

I've been told the opposite by Thai friends of mine that Thais will find you interesting if you can speak "a little bit" of Thai. This will give the Thai a sense of superiority that you're interested in "their" language but you're nowhere near their standard. In other words, they can be your teacher, and you know the Thais are the most prideful people that I've ever come across. Your learning Thai gives the Thais a sense of pride of themselves.

However, they don't like you to be fluent in your Thai because then the sense of superiority withers, and for most Thais who are always thinking of "exploiting" the farang dollars, it's the end of their business with you.

I am guessing that your Thai is far from fluent or why else would you be claiming that all 61 million people all think the same?

I didn't guess. I've been told by very close Thai friends of mine.

As for my fluency, I must admit I'm far from fluent. I can read and write though, enough to shock each and every Thai I've met (probably because they know I've been here for only 6 months) but not good enough for my own consumption.

Well, your very close Thai friends have a very cynical attitude towards their own people and they are not representative of the Thais who I live and work with. The Thai people I know are delighted if a westerner takes the trouble to really learn the language. Perhaps you are referring to a certain type of Thai?

I agree, all Thai's that I know (all from BKK) all love it when foreigners try to learn Thai and are even impressed when one can speak it fluently.

[thairookie]

I've been told the opposite by Thai friends of mine that Thais will find you interesting if you can speak "a little bit" of Thai. This will give the Thai a sense of superiority that you're interested in "their" language but you're nowhere near their standard. In other words, they can be your teacher, and you know the Thais are the most prideful people that I've ever come across. Your learning Thai gives the Thais a sense of pride of themselves.

However, they don't like you to be fluent in your Thai because then the sense of superiority withers, and for most Thais who are always thinking of "exploiting" the farang dollars, it's the end of their business with you.

I am guessing that your Thai is far from fluent or why else would you be claiming that all 61 million people all think the same?

I didn't guess. I've been told by very close Thai friends of mine.

As for my fluency, I must admit I'm far from fluent. I can read and write though, enough to shock each and every Thai I've met (probably because they know I've been here for only 6 months) but not good enough for my own consumption.

Well, your very close Thai friends have a very cynical attitude towards their own people and they are not representative of the Thais who I live and work with. The Thai people I know are delighted if a westerner takes the trouble to really learn the language. Perhaps you are referring to a certain type of Thai?

I'm not referring to any type. I"m just relating what I've been told by a few. It's not meant to be the absolute truth, but something worth taking note. That has always been my attitude towards differing opinions, which is why I didn't see the necessity to have my friends prove their words. They speak for themselves; they speak for "some" Thais, but they definitely cannot speak for all.

In my 6 months here full-time, I've seen beyond the facade of "wai and smile".

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Learning Thai? Being fluent in Thai? One of the most discussed non-events or non-issues in Thailand? Swings and roundabouts. Some of the best times are when you have no understanding of <deleted> is happening... ...Sometimes it comes in useful

Of a dozen languages I've studied, Thai has been the least useful... = personal view... Nor is it particularly well taught by most Thai teachers...

BTW The same people still ask me: do I like Thai food? can I eat spicey? where do I live? and how long have I been here? It might be midly amusing to keep a diary and say to them, do you realise you've asked me the same question 24 times already on these dates...I learnt the answers to those in both English and Thai after a few weeks

[garro]

I've been told the opposite by Thai friends of mine that Thais will find you interesting if you can speak "a little bit" of Thai. This will give the Thai a sense of superiority that you're interested in "their" language but you're nowhere near their standard. In other words, they can be your teacher, and you know the Thais are the most prideful people that I've ever come across. Your learning Thai gives the Thais a sense of pride of themselves.

I am guessing that your Thai is far from fluent or why else would you be claiming that all 61 million people all think the same?

I didn't guess. I've been told by very close Thai friends of mine.

As for my fluency, I must admit I'm far from fluent. I can read and write though, enough to shock each and every Thai I've met (probably because they know I've been here for only 6 months) but not good enough for my own consumption.

Well, your very close Thai friends have a very cynical attitude towards their own people and they are not representative of the Thais who I live and work with. The Thai people I know are delighted if a westerner takes the trouble to really learn the language. Perhaps you are referring to a certain type of Thai?

I'm not referring to any type. I"m just relating what I've been told by a few. It's not meant to be the absolute truth, but something worth taking note. That has always been my attitude towards differing opinions, which is why I didn't see the necessity to have my friends prove their words. They speak for themselves; they speak for "some" Thais, but they definitely cannot speak for all.

In my 6 months here full-time, I've seen beyond the facade of "wai and smile".

First you posted;

However, they don't like you to be fluent in your Thai because then the sense of superiority withers, and for most Thais who are always thinking of "exploiting" the farang dollars, it's the end of their business with you.

and then you posted,

They speak for themselves; they speak for "some" Thais, but they definitely cannot speak for all.

Do you see the difference? The second post is more reasonable.

Edited July 21, 2008 by garro

[thaihome]

... it is an ego-trip more than anything else.

Probably the most honest post from a self claimed Thai speaker I have ever seen.

TH

Edited July 21, 2008 by thaihome

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Thai = =

Farang = = (Usually...)

[JOHN2]

No not at all,thais should learn English imo

[Neeranam]

why would most farangs learn thai?

Educated thais speak english

Most farangs who arent teachers or retired that are here are successful. they dont need to associate with people who are the complete oposite of them?

What else besides the basic vocabulary of a 4yo kid do you need if you're only talking in thai with people at 7/11 or massage place?

Many farang's native language isnt even english and many thais speak HORRIBLE thai... everybody should finish up in the middle with english.. which is the easiest language to speak/learn

Personaly, i seldom care about thai males w/ very basic english, most of them are touts or gay and the gay ones they find in their heart the strenght to speak terrible but entertaining and nice english...

As far as thai women go.. a simple smile is enough since i already have my girl.

So i never plan to learn thai, might learn Japanese though

This guy is a joke , right?

There are no successful retirees or teachers?

How do you know many Thais speak horible Thai?

Why am I even replying to such a sad case with such an inferiority complex? Either that or a troll.

[AmeriThai]

Another tip, if you are American, just say you are American and that is why you can't speak foreign languages ...

American's can't speak other languages? Maybe not fluently. Although the language of Americans is primarily English, it includes a good sprinkling of other languages as well that have been integrated into the language even though it isn't enough to carry on a conversation with someone with those other languages. So, if you were talking to a Thai who doesn't know English, how exactly would you be able to tell them, "that is why you can't speak foreign languages"?

[AmeriThai]

No not at all,thais should learn English imo

Many Thais do learn English.

[Neeranam]

so i understand that there are obvious benefits to becoming fluent in Thai my question though is do you think it is rude to Thai people if you stay here long term without learning to speak Thai fluently? I think it would be embarrasing to meet your child's teachers and tell them you have lived here X years while not speaking fluent Thai.

I have a hard time making time to learn Thai. For awhile I had it in my IPOD, but then I realized Id much rather listen to music. I would not call it an enjoyable hobby. Yeah, I was thrilled when I went from noob to intermediate, but going from intermediate to fluent seems to have very limited benefits besides face/bragging rights.

For those who have been here many years without speaking fluently, are you embarrassed about it? Is your wife embarrassed about it?

How long did it take you to get to intermediate?

It took me about 5 years to get to elementary. Able to speak in many situations and read books for 8 year olds.

It took another 5 years to get to intermediate - able to understand 50% of the newspapers.

I can speak passable Thai but am still embarrassed sometimes when talking with my kids' teachers, for example or some other situations.

[JOHN2]

... it is an ego-trip more than anything else.

Probably the most honest post from a self claimed Thai speaker I have ever seen.

TH

How right is this?? I was in subway a few weeks ago and a scruffy looking farang was talking continuesly to the bloke making his sandwich,he was clearly showing off that he could speak fluen thai and it was completely embarrassing and cringeworthy,even the sandwich maker looked embarrassed.I mean what would you talk to him about after you tell him what you want in your sannie?? It was awful.

[Neeranam]

... it is an ego-trip more than anything else.

Probably the most honest post from a self claimed Thai speaker I have ever seen.

TH

How right is this?? I was in subway a few weeks ago and a scruffy looking farang was talking continuesly to the bloke making his sandwich,he was clearly showing off that he could speak fluen thai and it was completely embarrassing and cringeworthy,even the sandwich maker looked embarrassed.I mean what would you talk to him about after you tell him what you want in your sannie?? It was awful.

nonsense - you're jealous and trying to bring the guy down because he was scruffy.

You should have known what he said if you speak intermediate Thai.

You can't speak a word can you so how do you know he was fluent?

I learn Thai so I don't have to be one of those guys who can't leave their home without their wife.

Is it rude? I don't think so but it's certainly disrespectful and ignorant and arrogant and ........

[Tinkelbell]

From this Thai......certainly it's not rude.

Foreigners not speaking Thai never been an issue among my Thai friends. But we do admire those who make special effort speaking good standard Thai.

Recalling an American whom I befriended with on the flight from NY to BKK years ago. This gentleman (the director for wildlife sanctuary in Brooklyn), spoke and wroted perfect Thai at university level. That's something to cheer about.

[qwertz]

From this Thai......certainly it's not rude.

Foreigners not speaking Thai never been an issue among my Thai friends. But we do admire those who make special effort speaking good standard Thai.

Recalling an American whom I befriended with on the flight from NY to BKK years ago. This gentleman (the director for wildlife sanctuary in Brooklyn), spoke and wroted perfect Thai at university level. That's something to cheer about.

It's been my experience that the language you learn at school is not usually what is spoken on the street.

There are so many dialects and in many cases quite different words for things, you get your real lessons from the people themselves.

In this sense Thais are just as tolerant of your mistakes as most other nationalities and you can't go wrong with a working knowledge of

the dialect in the region you choose to live in.

So not being word perfect is no excuse for not trying to learn and there's no such thing as "Can't learn" - what that really means is

"Don't want to".

[solent01]

Sorry mate but wai's are for thai's

So your at a party, meeting new people, every time you go to shake somebodys hand they don't respond. How would that make you feel?

So when somebody of equal or higher standing Wai's you and you don't respond, how do you think they feel (if you don't already know maybe I should expand, they feel your bl00dy rude), in your case speaking or not speaking Thai is irrelevant.

If you understand the concept regarding the "Wai" then you would understand that at the right time a "Wai" is simply being polite.

Solent,

Thai Wai Lesson #102 for your wider understanding: The less senior/lower status level person wais the senior person/higher level status person first...

With that in mind I rarely feel the need to kiss arse... Hence I'd largely agree with Roy. Personally I think it's a nice custom for Thais. It doesn't fit my own value system, so I don't do it as a rule, although occasionally it slips out!

Surely you mean 101, if your going to be a smart ass at least get it right not that I need your lesson, I've been living and running a business in Chiang Mai for the last 4 1/2 years, think I understand the "Wai" and Thai culture a little by now.

I don't have a complex or issues with feelings of superiority, so I feel perfectly at ease Wai'ing people I believe should be Wai'ed.

[JOHN2]

... it is an ego-trip more than anything else.

Probably the most honest post from a self claimed Thai speaker I have ever seen.

TH

How right is this?? I was in subway a few weeks ago and a scruffy looking farang was talking continuesly to the bloke making his sandwich,he was clearly showing off that he could speak fluen thai and it was completely embarrassing and cringeworthy,even the sandwich maker looked embarrassed.I mean what would you talk to him about after you tell him what you want in your sannie?? It was awful.

nonsense - you're jealous and trying to bring the guy down because he was scruffy.

You should have known what he said if you speak intermediate Thai.

You can't speak a word can you so how do you know he was fluent?

I learn Thai so I don't have to be one of those guys who can't leave their home without their wife.

Is it rude? I don't think so but it's certainly disrespectful and ignorant and arrogant and ........

You are the man in subway aren't you.

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Sorry mate but wai's are for thai's

So your at a party, meeting new people, every time you go to shake somebodys hand they don't respond. How would that make you feel?

So when somebody of equal or higher standing Wai's you and you don't respond, how do you think they feel (if you don't already know maybe I should expand, they feel your bl00dy rude), in your case speaking or not speaking Thai is irrelevant.

If you understand the concept regarding the "Wai" then you would understand that at the right time a "Wai" is simply being polite.

Solent,

Thai Wai Lesson #102 for your wider understanding: The less senior/lower status level person wais the senior person/higher level status person first...

With that in mind I rarely feel the need to kiss arse... Hence I'd largely agree with Roy. Personally I think it's a nice custom for Thais. It doesn't fit my own value system, so I don't do it as a rule, although occasionally it slips out!

Surely you mean 101, if your going to be a smart ass at least get it right not that I need your lesson, I've been living and running a business in Chiang Mai for the last 4 1/2 years, think I understand the "Wai" and Thai culture a little by now.

I don't have a complex or issues with feelings of superiority, so I feel perfectly at ease Wai'ing people I believe should be Wai'ed.

I guess the idea of lesson #102 coming after basic lesson #101 (which after all is what the #101 series are) via a little humour passed you by...

Perhaps if I put it more bluntly... You were lecturing Roy on his lack of knowledge after a conscious decision to leave it to Thais. You claim after all your experience you understand the "wai".

Yet you miss one of the most fundamental points...You do not respond to a higher status person who wais you... Why? The higher status person does not wai first so how can you respond? The lower status person wais first...

Your statement is the equivalent of asking where you bury the survivors of a plane crash that lands on the border of two countries...

As the saying goes... a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing...take the next course...or keep going for the next 4 1/2 years to reach the next step before the lectures...

Edited July 22, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS

[SoftWater]

why would most farangs learn thai?

No, it's not rude - I don't think most Thai people that I have met care much whether foreigners speak their language or not. In fact, I've even met some who prefer that we don't learn Thai precisely so that they can talk about us/trick us/comment on us/ etc without our knowing.

Which brings me to the answer to petitechevre's amazing question above - IF you live in Thailand, not learning Thai is at best imprudent, at worst stupid. This point is reinforced all the more for those who claim everything is about money, and Thais can or will understand English when money is involved. If you think this way, I would have thought you would be the first to want to learn Thai, because otherwise you will get seriously and repeatedly ripped off. More importantly, as I have learned to my cost, learning to read Thai contracts is essential, whether you're buying a condo, hiring a nanny from an agency, or doing anything else 'official'. English 'translations' are often not accurate, and do not stand up in court, unless verified by a government approved translation service. Relying on your Thai partner to read and understand it for you is one option, but assumes that your partner is educated enough to understand the implications of what they are reading (just think how complex English language legal documents are and then multiply that by the fact that your partner probably didn't go to school after the age of 14); and/or is not in cahoots with anyone trying to rip you off. Both are real risks that are easily avoided if you learn to read Thai yourself. It's not hard - certainly not as hard as learning to listen and speak - as formal Thai is a very rule-governed and orderly language (far more so than English), and can easily be done either at home or at a good school such as AAA (not AUA, which is hopeless) at Chit Lom or any of the other so-called 'Union System' schools.

[petitechevre]

why would most farangs learn thai?

No, it's not rude - I don't think most Thai people that I have met care much whether foreigners speak their language or not. In fact, I've even met some who prefer that we don't learn Thai precisely so that they can talk about us/trick us/comment on us/ etc without our knowing.

Which brings me to the answer to petitechevre's amazing question above - IF you live in Thailand, not learning Thai is at best imprudent, at worst stupid. This point is reinforced all the more for those who claim everything is about money, and Thais can or will understand English when money is involved. If you think this way, I would have thought you would be the first to want to learn Thai, because otherwise you will get seriously and repeatedly ripped off. More importantly, as I have learned to my cost, learning to read Thai contracts is essential, whether you're buying a condo, hiring a nanny from an agency, or doing anything else 'official'. English 'translations' are often not accurate, and do not stand up in court, unless verified by a government approved translation service. Relying on your Thai partner to read and understand it for you is one option, but assumes that your partner is educated enough to understand the implications of what they are reading (just think how complex English language legal documents are and then multiply that by the fact that your partner probably didn't go to school after the age of 14); and/or is not in cahoots with anyone trying to rip you off. Both are real risks that are easily avoided if you learn to read Thai yourself. It's not hard - certainly not as hard as learning to listen and speak - as formal Thai is a very rule-governed and orderly language (far more so than English), and can easily be done either at home or at a good school such as AAA (not AUA, which is hopeless) at Chit Lom or any of the other so-called 'Union System' schools.

The people like you who have partners that quit school at age 14 are the only ones who are gonna have trouble with money and that will get ripped off..

Anybody that is decently weathly and unstupid knows after a while how much stuff is worth in this country. instead of arguing with a thai TOUT the weathly and educated guy will just leave silently instead of arguing in thai with a crook.

No need to learn thai for that.

And why would you need a contract if you're not a broke teacher trying to rent everything?

If you want a car, you think ford or honda is gonna rip you off? what else do you need a loan for? if you get your own business or house, YOU make the contracts.

Only reason i would like to learn thai is for the music, not movies because obviously they're pretty bad for the most part.

Also most thais i met in bangkok that i had to do business with, all spoke english better than most expats and only had english contracts available.. of course if you hang around on nut or some issan nowhere land, there you might need thai.. but the average farang trying to become richer in thailand has NO need absolutely for thai.. + many of us are tone def after having such simple languages for years + headphones killing our ears

[Ratsima]

I don't think it's looked on as rude, but I'm horribly embarrassed that I'm unable to speak Thai. I've studied for 12 years and have lived here for three years and still have trouble with things as simple as buying a bottle of water in a minimart. I can read quite a bit, but spoken Thai has proven to be an insurmountable challenge. I've been through Rosetta Stone, Pimsleur and Becker and have spent hundreds of hours of studying, all to no avail.

In fact, I'd have to say that my biggest disappointment in connection with my retirement here has been my inability to communicate even on the most basic of levels.

If I had to take a test to stay here I'd be instantly deported.

[barky]

Sorry mate but wai's are for thai's

So your at a party, meeting new people, every time you go to shake somebodys hand they don't respond. How would that make you feel?

So when somebody of equal or higher standing Wai's you and you don't respond, how do you think they feel (if you don't already know maybe I should expand, they feel your bl00dy rude), in your case speaking or not speaking Thai is irrelevant.

If you understand the concept regarding the "Wai" then you would understand that at the right time a "Wai" is simply being polite.

It is very unlikely that someone of higher rank would wai anyone of lower rank/age, let alone an alien.

A Thai waiing an alien is not that common anyhow. On the occasion a younger/lower ranked Thai wai an alien, then the alien should at least acknowledge the wai, but does not need to wai in return.

[TAWP]

Sorry mate but wai's are for thai's

This is an ignorant line that should be avoided by everyone that wants to do any biz or networking in Thailand.

[alexth]

Intermediate level works fine for me. Never been ashame of it, just a little left out when my Thai friends start speaking Thai, but I still understand around half of the conversation.

[TheDon]

I think all the people who live in Thailand and are saying they dont need to learn thai are really just jealous that they are just not smart enough to learn Thai and just give up because its too hard for them. Thats my opinion

[ourmaninbangers]

rude not learning thai..? nonsense,

please, you politicaly correct bunch really need to get a life

I,ve been here 27 years.

Cannot speak a word, and its never been a problem.

In fact its been a benifit several times.

Don,t have to answer those stupid questions ones seems to always get and roped into alot of nonsense. I just breeze through.

I just shake my head. Of coures if you interact alot with the locals, you,d probabaly need to.. this is understandable.

Plus- and I do not mean to be rude, but its annoying, thos sit coms, that "music" and useless outside of thailand, and when you,ve been here for as long as I, and have got by... why bother?

I,am not anti thailand, love many things about it, none of which need me to speak the lingo and just think its dum thinking one "has" to learn it

[ourmaninbangers]

Sorry mate but wai's are for thai's

This is an ignorant line that should be avoided by everyone that wants to do any biz or networking in Thailand.

and thats just about everyone I know...I agree with him

[garro]

One thing that I have always found strange is that it is often the westerner who can't speak Thai who make derogatory claims about Thai conversations. The number of times I have heard westerners claim, "I don't need to speak Thai, because they only talk about eating" must be in the hundreds. Of course this a ridiculous assertion and the person saying it might as well be wearing a big polka-dot t-shirt with 'I'm a <deleted>' written in neon - as far as I'm concerned. The same people are also usually able to give long and elaborate explanations as to why they can't speak it.

[Naam]

I think all the people who live in Thailand and are saying they dont need to learn thai are really just jealous that they are just not smart enough to learn Thai and just give up because its too hard for them. Thats my opinion

i know you are referring to me because when you tried to explain Einstein's relativity theory i confessed that i attended primary school only four years and that my maths is limited to addition and subtraction not exceeding the number of my fingers