Rude To Not Become Fluent In Thai

[MiG16]

it is certainly not rude that you dont want to learn Thai language, regardless how many years you live here. its up to you to decide whether its useful and will make your life easier. I personally wont think its rude, and I havent met any thai who would consider it so.

I have however wondered at an old woman who has lived in thailand for about 50 years, watched thai TV on a daily basis, but cannot speak thai. I think she doesnt want to and has no need to, rather than cant (daily life taken care of by family members who speak to her in Chinese). It makes me curious, but again I wouldnt consider it rude.

^^ the above is my post as a member.

now below is my post as a MOD:

every one is welcome to their views and decisions as to whether they want to learn a certain language, regardless of where they live. this is your individual choice and freedom. you may discuss the merits of choosing to do so, or your decision for not wanting to. However, posts that disregard forum rules is not tolerated.

Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or any attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants.

3) Religious or racial slurs, rude and degrading comments towards women, or extremely negative views of Thailand will not be tolerated.

lets keep this in mind everyone.

cheers

[SoftWater]

I once met a guy here who said 'I started learning Thai once, but then I realised Thai people had nothing interesting to say to me, so I stopped.'

That seems to sum up those who say they can live here but think learning the local language is a waste of time. Living in ignorance of the world around you is not rude to others (though some of the justifications for it posted on this thread might be), just incredibly narrow-minded.

Do you really think a whole nation of people have nothing interesting or valuable to say to you unless they say it in English? It's a rhetorical question, I know the answer is 'yes', but how very sad that is, and laughable coming from anyone who at the same time would call themselves 'intelligent' or 'educated'.

well, i can understand what the guy was getting at, there are alot of Thai conversations taking place that are only about how delicious is something and how much it cost.

Isn't that true where you come from, too?

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, MiG16, Teacup, Tinkerbell, etc. Maybe Heng or some other Thai citizens chimed in, as well. I think it is Thailly, totally unanimous: that Thais do not consider it rude if we do not speak Thai.

I wish I spoke Thai, but cannot. We went to a party this weekend where my partner and I were both the jokers of the evening, each in our own language.

Comparisons of the West and East are Thailly irrelevant. How ladyboys carry on or how som tam is served, in Dagenham or Dearborn, has nothing to do with how we live in Thailand.

[bkkjames]

Thanks, MiG16, Teacup, Tinkerbell, etc. Maybe Heng or some other Thai citizens chimed in, as well. I think it is Thailly, totally unanimous: that Thais do not consider it rude if we do not speak Thai.

I wish I spoke Thai, but cannot. We went to a party this weekend where my partner and I were both the jokers of the evening, each in our own language.

Comparisons of the West and East are Thailly irrelevant. How ladyboys carry on or how som tam is served, in Dagenham or Dearborn, has nothing to do with how we live in Thailand.

But the big question is did you and your partner go to Silom soi 4 after?

[MiG16]

whats your point bkkjames

remember, keep the discussion on topic.

[bkkjames]

whats your point bkkjames

remember, keep the discussion on topic.

Ok ok, how is this then "The big question is did you speak thai when you and your partner went to Silom soi 4"

[Rujiroj]

Personally, I feel it is rude to live in someone's country and not make an effort to learn their language. Just think about what you would say if you spoke to an immigrant in your home country and they didn't speak your language. You'd probably tell them to "go home" or something.

Speaking Thai fluently is not an "impossibility" as some here have suggested. I speak fluent Thai with no accent. When on the phone, people do not know I am a farang. I was speaking Thai very well after only 10 months, and probably dropped my accent after a couple of years. I even type faster than all my Thai friends! You can do it if you REALLY try.

However, I will tell you something that will likely surprise the socks off you. In contrast to the original poster's comments that Thais will find it rude if you don't speak Thai, many Thais actually don't like farangs who speak Thai fluently. If you speak a little bit, they will think its cute. But, when you speak it as well as I do, you will regularly encounter people who say "it's scary" (น่ากลัว) or you are "not desirable as a friend" (ไม่น่าคบ) or call you a "farang who knows too much" (ฝรั่งรู้มาก).

They actually get genuinely disturbed by the fact that you can understand EVERY WORD they are saying because they can't talk about/gossip about you. I think it also has something to do with an inferiority complex and the Thais see their language as something "they" have and that the "other" can't come and take it away. And, no, I don't spend my time with money-grubbers who are out to swindle me out of my money. In fact, many of the comments above I usually hear from "educated" Thais. In fact, many educated Thais look down on their own language, and even though my Thai is better than their English, they refuse to speak Thai with me.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Rujiroj

[alantheembalmer]

Solzhenitsyn lived in the USA for nearly 20 years, and never learnt English. So if it's good enough for him.............

[think_too_mut]

Personally, I feel it is rude to live in someone's country and not make an effort to learn their language. Just think about what you would say if you spoke to an immigrant in your home country and they didn't speak your language. You'd probably tell them to "go home" or something.

Speaking Thai fluently is not an "impossibility" as some here have suggested. I speak fluent Thai with no accent. When on the phone, people do not know I am a farang. I was speaking Thai very well after only 10 months, and probably dropped my accent after a couple of years. I even type faster than all my Thai friends! You can do it if you REALLY try.

Take it to the bank and see what you get for speaking Thai "fluently".

While many Thais are struggling to speak English. Including the bank staff.

Not everyone is like Stickman who is and will be making his living off his Thai langauage ability and intelligent knowledge of Thai culture.

At the end of the day, people have some skills, other than Thai language. And they prosper in Thailand.

[qwertz]

Solzhenitsyn lived in the USA for nearly 20 years, and never learnt English. So if it's good enough for him.............

Einstein too never learned good English.

Apparently, just before dying he rambled on for about half an hour and nobody will ever know what his last words were because the duty

nurse understood no German.

[Tinkelbell]

QUOTE (Tinkelbell @ 2008-07-26 01:59:27) " sup-bra-doon-wan-ra-nit-jit-sod-sai."

...................................................................

Naam, relaxs, this's all for the good caurse, as Teacup put it nicely.

If it's being translated, it would mean " A little bit of funky sex a day helps keeping a man cheerfully all day...."

Worth of caution though, if anyone out there would like to try saying this Thai verse, keep in mind that you can say to the ONLY person whom you have an intimate ralationship such as your wife/husband, gf/bf, mianoi/lover..... If you saying to anyone or to a stanger, they might get offended, a slap on the face might be flollowed. In that case, don't blame me.

[dougieboy]

so i understand that there are obvious benefits to becoming fluent in Thai my question though is do you think it is rude to Thai people if you stay here long term without learning to speak Thai fluently? I think it would be embarrasing to meet your child's teachers and tell them you have lived here X years while not speaking fluent Thai.

I have a hard time making time to learn Thai. For awhile I had it in my IPOD, but then I realized Id much rather listen to music. I would not call it an enjoyable hobby. Yeah, I was thrilled when I went from noob to intermediate, but going from intermediate to fluent seems to have very limited benefits besides face/bragging rights.

For those who have been here many years without speaking fluently, are you embarrassed about it? Is your wife embarrassed about it?

I so want to speak the lingo, but not sure if i can take it all in

[dougieboy]

What's even worse is the "holier than thou" farangs who take some Thai classes and then all of a sudden any one who doesn't speak Thai is the scum of the earth...telling someone else what they should or shouldn't do with their life is, IMHO, ruder than not speaking Thai.

I agree, everyone to their own, freedom of choice etc, I personally intend to learn the lingo but will not think less of those who choose not to,

[TheDon]

Ofcourse its freedom of choice, but I dont get why people wouldnt learn the local language if you live there, I can understand the older fellas as its harder for them to learn, but the young guns who go to Thailand to live should learn the language. Its rude and ignorant

[Chaimai]

Ofcourse its freedom of choice, but I dont get why people wouldnt learn the local language if you live there, I can understand the older fellas as its harder for them to learn, but the young guns who go to Thailand to live should learn the language. Its rude and ignorant

There are a large number (no names, no pack drill) that should consider mastering English first

[TheDon]

Ofcourse its freedom of choice, but I dont get why people wouldnt learn the local language if you live there, I can understand the older fellas as its harder for them to learn, but the young guns who go to Thailand to live should learn the language. Its rude and ignorant

There are a large number (no names, no pack drill) that should consider mastering English first

I speak Austrayan

[Naam]

Ofcourse its freedom of choice, but I dont get why people wouldnt learn the local language if you live there, I can understand the older fellas as its harder for them to learn, but the young guns who go to Thailand to live should learn the language....

and if they don't learn they will be snip-cacked by the Don

[thaihome]

Personally, I feel it is rude to live in someone's country and not make an effort to learn their language. Just think about what you would say if you spoke to an immigrant in your home country and they didn't speak your language. You'd probably tell them to "go home" or something.

....

Some of us do not consider ourselves "immigrants", so your comparison is invalid.

TH

[TheDon]

Personally, I feel it is rude to live in someone's country and not make an effort to learn their language. Just think about what you would say if you spoke to an immigrant in your home country and they didn't speak your language. You'd probably tell them to "go home" or something.

....

Some of us do not consider ourselves "immigrants", so your comparison is invalid.

TH

But you get his drift, most people who settle in Australia get frowned apon if they dont learn our language, even on the news they had a big thing about they should all go home if they dont want to learn english. It was on today tonight.

[jubby]

I've contemplated making the effort to learn Thai.

Several things put me off.

The Wife speaks Issan to her Parents; Lanna to everyone else in the Village and Pidgeon English with a Yorkshire Accent to me (The same Pidgeon that I speak).

NO one seems to speak Thai ! . When would I use it ?

Also, as much as I try to think before speaking; When I need to say something to Thai's other than the usual pleasantries, I'm far too Direct. This isn't likely to change no matter how hard I try. The Thai's (Lanna) in our parts are extremely sensitive and touchy to what you say and how you say it. I tend to think it would be far more direct in fluent Thai and get me into a lot of Poo. Upset one and you upset the whole Clan.

[dclaryjr]

I took a language aptitude test when I joined the military and scored near the bottom. I spent six years in Berlin and the best I could do was order beer (up to 100) and ask where the toilet was. I got the Rosetta Stone Thai software and got through the first lesson fairly well but it was hopeless after that. Rude? I don't think so. On the other hand, I think I've done a great job of teaching my wife English!

[weary]

'Wai' is a form of Thais showing respect.

It's very common practice for children wai parents, young wai elderly, pupits, students wai their teachers, employees wai their boss, low rank officer wai higher rank officer... and so on.

A girl from a good Thai family is taught to wai (sits on her knees) the husband at bed time. Thai believe it brings prosperity and happiness for the couple.

Whenever I receive a wai, I always returning a wai.

But in my whole life I have never seen any Thai returns wai to their maid or servant.

Here in Chiang Mai at any rate, I quite often see Thai people I would judge to be middle or upper class from their clothes and manners, return wais given from cashiers and employees at department stores and entertainment venues. I was also told, rightly or wrongly I cannot say, that not to acknowledge such a wai at all would be seen as snotty. The same person told me it is not necessary to raise your hands to a high level, but you should at least nod to show you are acknowledging the gesture.

Maybe you are only referring to maids and household servants. Maybe customs differ between parts of the country. Or maybe, some Thais actually think and act differently than others.

Edited August 6, 2008 by weary

[Tinkelbell]

You're doing quite all right. Credit to you friend.

When I said ....I never seen any Thai wais their maid or servant. What I refer to is that Thais don't returning wai to THEIR OWN household staffs, but they return wai to their friends' maid or servant where greetings occure. That goes with returning a wai to a salegirl, a cashier or a waiter etc. I'm doing it all the time.

There are many ways to wai, rule of the thumb is the more higher status, rank or higher respect, the lower your head when you wai, in some case you even have to lower both of your knees.

[astral]

Only a few of us will ever achieve real fluency in Thai,

but if we want to live in the Thai world, as opposed to the Expat world

then a working knowledge of the language will be very useful and

really appreciated by the Thai people

...would be embarrasing to meet your child's teachers and tell them you have lived here X years while not speaking fluent Thai.

I would not be too worried about this level.

In the government school my son's English teacher preferred to talk to me in Thai,

which seemed to say something about his ability in English.

[Andrew Hicks]

so i understand that there are obvious benefits to becoming fluent in Thai my question though is do you think it is rude to Thai people if you stay here long term without learning to speak Thai fluently? I think it would be embarrasing to meet your child's teachers and tell them you have lived here X years while not speaking fluent Thai.

I have a hard time making time to learn Thai. For awhile I had it in my IPOD, but then I realized Id much rather listen to music. I would not call it an enjoyable hobby. Yeah, I was thrilled when I went from noob to intermediate, but going from intermediate to fluent seems to have very limited benefits besides face/bragging rights.

For those who have been here many years without speaking fluently, are you embarrassed about it? Is your wife embarrassed about it?

Some farang make very little effort to learn Thai but then it is a mountain to climb and many of us will never begin to master it.

I think I have tried and am reasonably fluent in the small amount of Thai that I speak. The trouble is I can ask a question but usually cannot understand the replies.

And Thai is only one language. There's also Lao and Khmen and Suai to cope with.

At least a token effort is required of us though I think.

[Neeranam]

This morning, I stopped at the pump and got some petrol then went into the shop to buy a drink. The assistant pointed at a bag and then my coke. I asked in Thai if she had a speech impediment and she laughed saying most farang that go in there can't say more than "pla pla ngu ngu"

Usually, in Khon Kaen, when I go to a new restaurant with my wife and kids, they won't give me the menu, obviously thinking I can't read Thai.

Obviously, there are a lot of guys coming here without learning the basics of the country's language - I say, get off yer arse and learn the basics, like "I don't need a bag", or "put it in a bag please".

maybe they should have a language test when issuing long-term visas?

[duped]

bag it woman is not basic, its advanced thai

[kiakaha]

This morning, I stopped at the pump and got some petrol then went into the shop to buy a drink. The assistant pointed at a bag and then my coke. I asked in Thai if she had a speech impediment and she laughed saying most farang that go in there can't say more than "pla pla ngu ngu"

Usually, in Khon Kaen, when I go to a new restaurant with my wife and kids, they won't give me the menu, obviously thinking I can't read Thai.

Obviously, there are a lot of guys coming here without learning the basics of the country's language - I say, get off yer arse and learn the basics, like "I don't need a bag", or "put it in a bag please".

maybe they should have a language test when issuing long-term visas?

there are also lots of people who "think" they have good thai...but they can't read or write anything or pronounce correctly. Whats the point of being able to say stuff if you cant read it aswell.Many people get scared off by the prospect of trying to learn to read but it really aint that hard.There aren't that many symbols/vowel patterns/special rules to learn..if you just commit to learning a couple of characters a day, after a few months, trust me, the benefits are enormous..you'll be reading the paper with ease and more importantly pronouncing more correctly !!

[Neeranam]

This morning, I stopped at the pump and got some petrol then went into the shop to buy a drink. The assistant pointed at a bag and then my coke. I asked in Thai if she had a speech impediment and she laughed saying most farang that go in there can't say more than "pla pla ngu ngu"

Usually, in Khon Kaen, when I go to a new restaurant with my wife and kids, they won't give me the menu, obviously thinking I can't read Thai.

Obviously, there are a lot of guys coming here without learning the basics of the country's language - I say, get off yer arse and learn the basics, like "I don't need a bag", or "put it in a bag please".

maybe they should have a language test when issuing long-term visas?

there are also lots of people who "think" they have good thai...but they can't read or write anything or pronounce correctly. Whats the point of being able to say stuff if you cant read it aswell.Many people get scared off by the prospect of trying to learn to read but it really aint that hard.There aren't that many symbols/vowel patterns/special rules to learn..if you just commit to learning a couple of characters a day, after a few months, trust me, the benefits are enormous..you'll be reading the paper with ease and more importantly pronouncing more correctly !!

I leraned to read in 30 hours by using an AUA book. That was years ago and I still can't read a newspaper with ease. Newspapers are not easy. However, I agreee with what you say - a few characters and rules to learn. It's better to speak without reading than read without speaking.

[mizzi39]

This morning, I stopped at the pump and got some petrol then went into the shop to buy a drink. The assistant pointed at a bag and then my coke. I asked in Thai if she had a speech impediment and she laughed saying most farang that go in there can't say more than "pla pla ngu ngu"

Usually, in Khon Kaen, when I go to a new restaurant with my wife and kids, they won't give me the menu, obviously thinking I can't read Thai.

Obviously, there are a lot of guys coming here without learning the basics of the country's language - I say, get off yer arse and learn the basics, like "I don't need a bag", or "put it in a bag please".

maybe they should have a language test when issuing long-term visas?

A totally agree with you. (not about the language test though) It is important to learn more than just "tourist Thai" if you are going to be here for a while. I have a pretty good vocabulary. My wife insists on teaching me 2 new words a day, putting the vocabulary into a context until I remember. This has worked very well. My problem is the tones. I am always struggling with the tones. Maybe I am tone deaf! I have not started reading Thai yet, but would like to take a formal Thai language course. Good topic OP.

Edited August 11, 2008 by mizzi39