Dear Abby

[jetjock]

Out of loyalty to my friend, I would introduce them to my wife and out of common courtesy ask them to join us. My Thai wife has no respect and little compassion for Thai girls that prostitute themselves as she feels that it serves only to tarnish the reputation of Thai woman in general however she since she has a lot of class, I am sure that she would be very gracious to them out of respect for the fact that he is my friend. My wife is very independent so it is not really any business of mine as to how she would handle it in the future should she at some time meet my friend's wife but I would guess that regardless of how she felt, she would handle the situation with class and respect for everyone as this is the way she always handles social situations.

[MonkeyHouse]

Out of loyalty to my friend, I would introduce them to my wife and out of common courtesy ask them to join us. My Thai wife has no respect and little compassion for Thai girls that prostitute themselves as she feels that it serves only to tarnish the reputation of Thai woman in general however she since she has a lot of class, I am sure that she would be very gracious to them out of respect for the fact that he is my friend. My wife is very independent so it is not really any business of mine as to how she would handle it in the future should she at some time meet my friend's wife but I would guess that regardless of how she felt, she would handle the situation with class and respect for everyone as this is the way she always handles social situations.

[Mossfinn]

Prey continue....

A Freudian slip, no less

[a2396]

Who care what the "other woman" does. I presume she's not carrying a mattress on her back. Be polite - hello & goodby. I doubt you are inviting her to the church supper, unless you hope she gets redemption.

[girlx]

A thai wife or g/f may react differently, but believe me, a farang wife want's to know - I will never forgive the farangs who didn't tell me what my husband was up to!

i agree that most farang women want to know if their man is cheating, but it has been my experience as well that when you do tell them, they usually find some way to deny it and turn it back around so you are the one at fault (for making up stories, whatever)... so the best thing to do is to stay out of it unless you are really good friends with the wife.

Edited July 31, 2008 by girlx

[MonkeyHouse]

A thai wife or g/f may react differently, but believe me, a farang wife want's to know - I will never forgive the farangs who didn't tell me what my husband was up to!

i agree that most farang women want to know if their man is cheating, but it has been my experience as well that when you do tell them, they usually find some way to deny it and turn it back around so you are the one at fault (for making up stories, whatever)... so the best thing to do is to stay out of it unless you are really good friends with the wife.

Im not being funny girlx but i would of thought most women regardless of where they are from would want to know if there husband is cheating if they loved him.

Not just farang women but all!

[percy2]

So here's an Etiquette Question (Hypothetical of course).

Suppose that you are out for dinner one evening with your wife, Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai or wherever it is you live in Thailand.

While waiting to take your table a friend/colleague greets you and introduces you to the woman he is with.

The woman is not his wife, you are sure of this because you know his wife. Your wife does not know the guy’s wife, but may very well meet her at some time in the future. – That aside the woman is clearly a 'prostitute' from some bar or other (for arguments sake, you are sure of that, because you know precisely which bar she works in).

Your friend introduces this woman.

(Keeping to the situation as described and without getting sidetracked).

What is your response?

Do you return the introduction, introducing your wife to this couple?

Ignore the introduction?

Invite the couple to join you both?

Or some other response?

I would return the intro and leave it to her indoors to suggest joining us or not.

I'm sure she would have picked up the other girls social standing and is more than capable of making her own decisions.

For politeness sake I would only fill her in about his marital status after the dinner if we dined together.

Cheers

[AFKAFSinLOS]

A thai wife or g/f may react differently, but believe me, a farang wife want's to know - I will never forgive the farangs who didn't tell me what my husband was up to!

i agree that most farang women want to know if their man is cheating, but it has been my experience as well that when you do tell them, they usually find some way to deny it and turn it back around so you are the one at fault (for making up stories, whatever)... so the best thing to do is to stay out of it unless you are really good friends with the wife.

Im not being funny girlx but i would of thought most women regardless of where they are from would want to know if there husband is cheating if they loved him.

Not just farang women but all!

Problem is that even if you say most then that still leaves some where you've got the opposite... I also think there are some difference on the surface at least between Thai women and foreign women in the distributions of who wants to know hwat. What people really think inside is something else again...

One of the toughest calls I had was telling one of my best friends his partner was cheating on him... even though I was not really that close with his partner. It was actually my partner at the time told me that his partner was cheating on him - women generally seem better at gossiping than us guys... Feels like a no win situation, and yes it can damage your friendship, and we've never been as good friends since... I still don't know whether what I did was right or wrong, which are subjective anyway... I try and reconcile it by telling myself what I did, I did for what I believed were the right intentions... The effect it then has on others, I can't really control...

Edited July 31, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS

[G54]

Politely acknowledge them both and then steer my companion away with some excuse about having dinner together, alone and maybe see them later.

[Jeddah Jo]

Surely a lot would depend on whether your wife was a prostitute or not? If she was I might suggest a 4-some

[qwertz]

I've had similar happen to me but not in Thailand.

I simply said, only to the man, that it would be better if they didn't join us, we were celebrating a special occasion and anyway, the less

we knew about his pecadillos the better.

[girlx]

I try and reconcile it by telling myself what I did, I did for what I believed were the right intentions... The effect it then has on others, I can't really control...

i had a friend actually ask me to my face if i had ever seen her thai husband do anything wayward. i wasn't sure if i should lie or not but really, when someone asks straight up like that it's hard... in fact, when she went back home he cheated on her like mad, and even came round to my house late at night wanting to "hang out" etc. and i am her good friend! i didn't tell her the details, just told her i had heard some stuff. she has never been the same with me since. i think if you don't want to know you definitely shouldn't ask! but then, a lot of people don't know what they want. when my boyfriend cheated on me i didn't believe it either. it wasn't until i found written evidence that i knew it was true. it's easier to live in denial.

[sbk]

Prey continue....

A Freudian slip, no less

Or not

[Marvo]

Totally agree with the opening post that in reality my wife is the most important person in almost every scenario...

I would disagree with your statement on decent people not wanting to hang out with prostitutes. Or perhaps I'm just not decent...

I would also like to extend a big thank you to the many Thais who helped me shed prejudices to a higher level than I ever would have done so, before I came to Thailand. Firstly by teaching me what is like to be on the receiving end of prejudice, which I never really fully understood to be honest, until I came to this part of the world. Secondly and more importantly by the very frequent opportunities I get to see Thais being prejudiced against Thais every single day on such a large scale, of which this is one example.

While I don't particularly go and seek to hang out with prostitutes for the sake of it, nor do I try and avoid them. When in a situation where there is someone being prejudiced against, I also find myself actually making a bit more of a special effort to make that person feel comfortable more than any other person in the group. So a big thank you to all you Thais out there for that. You've helped me identify things in myself that I should have been more uncomfortable about and wasn't. The beauty of once the penny drops on this, and you learn from the way many Thais exclude people and especially other Thais, it lets you apply that to virtually every minority/"lower" person who you can think of. Same for people of different colour, different gender, different sexual persuasion, different status or whatever. I feel a desire to do the opposite and include them and make an extra effort when I come across them...

To the Thais, or anyone else for that matter, that feel uncomfortable sitting in the presence of prostitutes. Tough sh*t. No matter how good a friend you are or not, you deserve to squirm and feel uncomfortable. Perhaps if you did more to include people in society in the first place, they'd have a few more choices. Besides I love the irony that the Thais have helped teach me, and by not leading by their own poor examples, I'm actually returning the favour like it or not...

In the moment a Thai or any other friend for that matter gets up and leaves just beacause of their own prejudices, and they look down on someone else, I'd actually prefer to be left sitting with the prostitute or anyone else they look down on... In my book, the moment you look down upon someone else is the moment you yourself become lower than them...

The one saddest thing about this scenario is it takes so many people getting it what I think is wrong, just for me to get it right. But thanks anyway...

...Thanks for giving me the opportunity to expand further though... There's a natural extension to what I wrote, which you've just highlighted, plus a trap to avoid falling into.

In my book, anyone that looks down on someone else has actually placed themselves below the person they look down on... The bit that I've then got to avoid is looking down on the person who looks down on the other person...otherwise the negative stuff just keeps perpetuating...

So that's why I say "thank you" instead...which is positive

Yes I think many people in this country are excellent at spotting more prostitutes than there actually are. Just pick them all, particularly from the NE and you're sure to get the right one... A lot of people don't stop to think and don't care that they could be wrong...

I used to try and kid myself I can always spot a ladyboy, which is another one. That's rubbish too. I think I'm as good as most people, but I'm honest enough to say I've had the embarassment of mistaking a ladyboy for a girl, and a girl for a ladyboy. It's not a nice thing to do to any of them...

I'd also add that there's a fair number of "average office workers", "university students" and "shop assistants" that work a double shift in different places... Sometimes you see the black and whites earning a little extra pocket money, and sometimes you see those with a little extra pocket money using that money to become a "black and white". Then there's the story of the girl who did a little dancing by night a la birthday suit, while still selling credit cards during the day during her transition phase and career move...

One of the beauties about Thailand is things aren't always what they seem, and it seems particularly so here. Also a great place to be humbled...

AFKAFSinLOS I think has the most grown-up, mature approach to the scenario and I thank you for sharing it with us. You have said many things which I knew I thought but was having trouble expressing. All of our judgments on ANY issue in life are tailored by the education received and values derived from our parents and guardians plus our experiences growing up and beyond. It's interesting how many prejudices are visible through the thin veil and like AFKAFSinLOS, I too try not to "look down" on others around me, making instant and distinctly prejudiced assumptions.

"Bargirls" seem to get tarred with the same brush, unsurprisingly, but as has been pointed out, they are all someone's daughter. In some cases, maybe it's more the fault of the parents and the upbringing that they are where they are, being looked down upon.

[farang prince]

So here's an Etiquette Question (Hypothetical of course).

Suppose that you are out for dinner one evening with your wife, Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai or wherever it is you live in Thailand.

While waiting to take your table a friend/colleague greets you and introduces you to the woman he is with.

The woman is not his wife, you are sure of this because you know his wife. Your wife does not know the guy’s wife, but may very well meet her at some time in the future. – That aside the woman is clearly a 'prostitute' from some bar or other (for arguments sake, you are sure of that, because you know precisely which bar she works in).

Your friend introduces this woman.

(Keeping to the situation as described and without getting sidetracked).

What is your response?

Do you return the introduction, introducing your wife to this couple?

Ignore the introduction?

Invite the couple to join you both?

Or some other response?

I'd simply respond "Hi Roxy (or whatever her name is), where are you working now luv?"

Of course, you would have to explain to your wife that you and Roxy know each other from Bible studies class.

And to your friend, give him a big wink and ask him if he is armed for the evening.

In all honesty, I spent 20 years in the U.S. Army and countless times men from my platoon or company or regiment married prostitutes that were known to many other soldiers in the organization. Virtually every time we were very polite and cordial to the new "wife" and very supportive to the poor soldier when the wife would invariably leave him a few months after arriving in the States.

Edited August 1, 2008 by farang prince

[tamsin]

Just a thought, but it would be very interesting to know if anyone has ever been grabbed warmly by the hand and thanked profusely by the friend to whom the news that his/her partner/wife was being cheated on? From all the posts on this it seems that the 'messenger' has always been shot and the friendship has irretrievably broken down.

[donna]

ok. well i went out for a lovely dinner with a married Thai Visa member. lets call him 'X'. X did not want to take his wife with him to the dinner, as it was a 7 course job and she doesnt appreciate western food. X's wife knew that we were going together, and there was certainly nothing more to it. X's wife and i know each other.

it was funny, as many people at the dinner asked if X was my husband. i just laughed and said "no, his wife is at home minding the dogs".

im not sure how people would have misinterpreted the 'relationship' but i dont really care either.

but if i were in the situation that GuestHouse mentions, i think i would do as Boo would do, and be polite, but invite no further conversation or company.

[dingdongrb]

but if i were in the situation that GuestHouse mentions, i think i would do as Boo would do, and be polite, but invite no further conversation or company.

Boo who.... Boo who....... lighten up and stop crying...it's just a forum.....

[egg6447]

Yes to both, it's called an opinion, of which we all have one. I am amazed that mine though is creating quite such a stir & warrants such scrutiny.!!

because your opinion is not rounded by intellect. maybe experience, yes . boo it smacks of feminism. sorry boo. just my opinion of course.

[Boo]

You aren't in a position to determine what is intellectual or not & I didn't invite you to agree with me. Think what you want & I will think what I want. Or can't women have opinions?... ooops that was probably too feminist for you too

[GuestHouse]

This thread is working out better than I had hoped.

The idea, as I have stated, was to test the response of individuals to the situation - I absolutely did not want to discuss prostitution, feminism or even 'should one tell the wife or not'.

While those 'off track' distractions have come up, what is far more interesting (and the point of the question I asked) is the 'thinking behind individual responses'.

The term 'prejudice' has come up, referred to in its common usage of people being prejudiced against others - paradoxically the people who have expressed opinions on those lines have also been those who are exhibiting the greatest prejudicial view of other other people's thinking. Examples are comments on feminism and some very weak arguments against social norms.

There are a number of clear objections to women's opinions in the responses.

One member asked the very reasonable question 'what this question has to do with Thailand?'. Forgive me for not answering right away I didn't want to skew the discussion.

The answer to that is: Firstly it is a situation that is not uncommon in Thailand but more so I wanted to see if people's experiences in Thailand had changed/colored their view of what are the social rules and where the lines are drawn - The confirmation of this has been remarkable. (I make no comment on whether that is a good thing or not).

However, what is clear is that individuals are very keen to argue the injustice of social norms/rules where they themselves/or their behavior are subject to censure by those rules. Importantly, people who argue in other threads on the importance of integrating to Thai society and following the Thai rules argue against following the particular social rules that lie at the heart of the 'situation' in my question.

Those who would deny the importance/relevance of these social rules/lines have proved otherwise by their response to the question - the more ardent the case against the rule, the more positive the confirmation that there is a clash of values in the situation and that these rules of social class do matter and are important.

I find it curious, and rather depressing, that only one member pointed out that the focus of his attention would be the feelings of his own wife (Hats off to Steve)

[uptou]

I find it curious, and rather depressing, that only one member pointed out that the focus of his attention would be the feelings of his own wife (Hats off to Steve)

So we are first assuming that the (my imaginary)wife knows said freind or gives a toss about other peoples business,or someone she doesnt know??

Edited August 1, 2008 by uptou

[dingdongrb]

This thread is working out better than I had hoped.

The idea, as I have stated, was to test the response of individuals to the situation - I absolutely did not want to discuss prostitution, feminism or even 'should one tell the wife or not'.

While those 'off track' distractions have come up, what is far more interesting (and the point of the question I asked) is the 'thinking behind individual responses'.

The term 'prejudice' has come up, referred to in its common usage of people being prejudiced against others - paradoxically the people who have expressed opinions on those lines have also been those who are exhibiting the greatest prejudicial view of other other people's thinking. Examples are comments on feminism and some very weak arguments against social norms.

There are a number of clear objections to women's opinions in the responses.

One member asked the very reasonable question 'what this question has to do with Thailand?'. Forgive me for not answering right away I didn't want to skew the discussion.

The answer to that is: Firstly it is a situation that is not uncommon in Thailand but more so I wanted to see if people's experiences in Thailand had changed/colored their view of what are the social rules and where the lines are drawn - The confirmation of this has been remarkable. (I make no comment on whether that is a good thing or not).

However, what is clear is that individuals are very keen to argue the injustice of social norms/rules where they themselves/or their behavior are subject to censure by those rules. Importantly, people who argue in other threads on the importance of integrating to Thai society and following the Thai rules argue against following the particular social rules that lie at the heart of the 'situation' in my question.

Those who would deny the importance/relevance of these social rules/lines have proved otherwise by their response to the question - the more ardent the case against the rule, the more positive the confirmation that there is a clash of values in the situation and that these rules of social class do matter and are important.

I find it curious, and rather depressing, that only one member pointed out that the focus of his attention would be the feelings of his own wife (Hats off to Steve)

Thank you Dr Phil for this bit of entertainment...

[donna]

but if i were in the situation that GuestHouse mentions, i think i would do as Boo would do, and be polite, but invite no further conversation or company.

Boo who.... Boo who....... lighten up and stop crying...it's just a forum.....

lighten up about what, dingdongrb? nobody is crying here. merely answering the question of the OP.

[girlx]

another lovely day here on thaivisa

[MonkeyHouse]

This thread is working out better than I had hoped.

The idea, as I have stated, was to test the response of individuals to the situation - I absolutely did not want to discuss prostitution, feminism or even 'should one tell the wife or not'.

While those 'off track' distractions have come up, what is far more interesting (and the point of the question I asked) is the 'thinking behind individual responses'.

The term 'prejudice' has come up, referred to in its common usage of people being prejudiced against others - paradoxically the people who have expressed opinions on those lines have also been those who are exhibiting the greatest prejudicial view of other other people's thinking. Examples are comments on feminism and some very weak arguments against social norms.

There are a number of clear objections to women's opinions in the responses.

One member asked the very reasonable question 'what this question has to do with Thailand?'. Forgive me for not answering right away I didn't want to skew the discussion.

The answer to that is: Firstly it is a situation that is not uncommon in Thailand but more so I wanted to see if people's experiences in Thailand had changed/colored their view of what are the social rules and where the lines are drawn - The confirmation of this has been remarkable. (I make no comment on whether that is a good thing or not).

However, what is clear is that individuals are very keen to argue the injustice of social norms/rules where they themselves/or their behavior are subject to censure by those rules. Importantly, people who argue in other threads on the importance of integrating to Thai society and following the Thai rules argue against following the particular social rules that lie at the heart of the 'situation' in my question.

Those who would deny the importance/relevance of these social rules/lines have proved otherwise by their response to the question - the more ardent the case against the rule, the more positive the confirmation that there is a clash of values in the situation and that these rules of social class do matter and are important.

I find it curious, and rather depressing, that only one member pointed out that the focus of his attention would be the feelings of his own wife (Hats off to Steve)

This sort of thing should be common to you guesthouse, what i mean is the country you live in,the guys there are allowed 7 wives?, am i right?

It must happen to you lots then

Edited August 1, 2008 by MonkeyHouse

[MonkeyHouse]

I find it curious, and rather depressing, that only one member pointed out that the focus of his attention would be the feelings of his own wife (Hats off to Steve)

I thought he is rather a rude man to snigger and talk about people behind there back or even accross the room as he stated he does!

[MonkeyHouse]

My Thai wife has no respect and little compassion for Thai girls that prostitute themselves as she feels that it serves only to tarnish the reputation of Thai woman in general

Hey mate your wife has got it all wrong!

Its not the thai girls that tarnish thai womens reputation, Its the farang or others that use them, in other words supply and demand!

Its a bit like those people in china that kill cats and skin them to make coats for rich europeans, Its not the poor chinese persons fault, they are just making a living it the rich europeans buying the coat!

PS There is nothing wrong with prostitutes, there making a living and there human.

[Chaimai]

My Thai wife has no respect and little compassion for Thai girls that prostitute themselves as she feels that it serves only to tarnish the reputation of Thai woman in general

Hey mate your wife has got it all wrong!

Its not the thai girls that tarnish thai womens reputation, Its the farang or others that use them, in other words supply and demand!

Its a bit like those people in china that kill cats and skin them to make coats for rich europeans, Its not the poor chinese persons fault, they are just making a living it the rich europeans buying the coat!

PS There is nothing wrong with prostitutes, there making a living and there human.

And Genghis Khan was just a misunderstood nationalist ???

Edited August 1, 2008 by Chaimai

[MonkeyHouse]

My Thai wife has no respect and little compassion for Thai girls that prostitute themselves as she feels that it serves only to tarnish the reputation of Thai woman in general

Hey mate your wife has got it all wrong!

Its not the thai girls that tarnish thai womens reputation, Its the farang or others that use them, in other words supply and demand!

Its a bit like those people in china that kill cats and skin them to make coats for rich europeans, Its not the poor chinese persons fault, they are just making a living it the rich europeans buying the coat!

PS There is nothing wrong with prostitutes, there making a living and there human.

And Genghis Khan was just a misunderstood nationalist ???

dunno? maybe?