2% Atm Charge By Wachovia!

[LivNon2396]

Well I have been getting nicked by Wachovia for over the last 2 years with the so called "International Service Fees" while using my Wachovia ATM cards in Thailand. Last year while I was at home, adding up all the charges I finally called my banker and pretty much got the same answer as I have copied below.

I've been reading a few of the posts here on TV about the 20 baht fee by the local banks. I wish it was only 20 baht that I was paying.

What are your US Banks charging you to get the ole Baht out of the ATMs here?

I guess it is time to find another bank to do business with since my personal banker had left Wachovia over 2 years ago and the relationship with my bank has gone to shit along with plenty of other things.

Please see the reply I received from Wachovia when I e-mailed them to find out why I have been getting bled when it never use to be that way (I would only get charged $2.00 a transaction no matter what foreign country I was in and that was acceptable to me).

What are others paying in fees and are they just feeding me a line of shit???

Unfortunately there is not a way to avoid the International

Service fees that Visa assesses.

Visa charges an ISA fee of 2% of the transaction amount for

international transactions. In addition, a $2.00 non-Wachovia ATM fee

may be assessed for using a foreign ATM.

The ISA fee is displayed separately for Visa Check Card purchases or

withdrawals (with a Check Card or ATM Card) made outside the United

States on Command Assets and checking accounts.

You may also be charged for using a Visa Check Card in foreign countries

for making the following international transactions:

- ATM withdrawals

- Cash advances on Check Cards made through Visa

- Purchases with and without a PIN

The ISA fee will not be charged for ATM:

- Inquiries

- Statements

- Transfers

I value your business as a Wachovia customer and look forward to

continuing to serve your financial needs.

[dingdongrb]

Yes, I am totally fed up with Wachovia as well. I used to bank with a company called NetBank but they were bought by ING Direct. NetBank was just that, strictly an Internet banking system. They had no branches and I could use my debit card at any Visa ATM worldwide with no service fees or ATM fees. Well needless to say when ING Direct took them over, ING Direct would no longer allow me to keep an account with them since my mailing address was here in LOS. I tried to tell them that I was a USA citizen, I worked for a USA based company that direct deposited USD into my account, and I did all my banking/bill paying online. It didn’t matter, they were adamant not to allow me to keep the account since my mailing address was in LOS. I was almost going to provide them my old mailing address in Colorado where I have tenants in my house who are very trusting long time friends. Or even give them my brother’s address in Austin but I said he77 with them and pulled my 25K+ out of their bank.

Meanwhile I was shopping around for another US based bank who would allow me have an international mailing address (even though I would do everything online) and provide me all the conveniences and services I needed for the smallest amount of fees. I narrowed it down to Wachovia and another (forget who at this moment). I went into Wachovia and they seemed to have everything I needed. I informed them of my international mailing address, no problem. I asked about any currency exchange rate fees for using my debit card (Visa) overseas, none. I asked them three times about ATM fees for not using their ATM machines. I was told three times that the only fees that I would be charged was $2.50 for each cash withdraw from any ATM that was not theirs and I would be charged 1% if I made a purchase (not cash withdraw) using my debit card internationally.

Needless to say the first statement that I received I saw the 2% fee for using the ATM (cash withdraw) as well as the $2.50 ATM charge. I immediately got on the phone and asked what was going on. I then got the truth; they charge 2% for using my debit card at any international ATM for cash withdraw. Then top if off, charge the $2.50… I came unglued and escalated it as far as I could. The last level that I was able to talk to said that the 2% was out of their control and it was a Visa thing. I informed her that I had a Visa debit card with NetBank and they didn’t charge this 2%. She gave me the run-around and said that the only thing that she could do was to remove any ATM fees no matter what ATM machine I used. I had to settle with this as it was better than nothing.

Since I use my debit card to receive cash only at ATMs and then pay everything with cash, the fees like you said, added up quickly. I have decided that I will open a Thai bank account, perform a one time wire transfer from Wachovia every six months into the Thai bank at a cost of $40, and then use the local ATM card saving myself a ton of fees. One day I will soon close my Wachovia account but I have been procrastinating doing so being busy with life and not yet finding a US bank that I desire.

Bottom line is, I did ask all the right questions many times before choosing Wachovia and they fed me BS lies.

[taxout]

Sounds like Wachovia's handing you one big lie:

"Visa Inc. does not assess any fees to cardholders or merchants. Visa applies International Service Assessment (ISA) fees ranging from 0.15 to 1 percent to its financial institution partners for their use of the global payment system."

http://usa.visa.com/personal/using_visa/ex..._rates_faq.html

[Gumballl]

Bank of America charges a flat-fee of $5 plus an extra 1% of the transaction to cover the foreign currency exchange.

For small transactions, say around 20K Baht, which is about $599 (approx 33.4 Baht/dollar), Wachovia charges close to $12. For BofA, the same transaction would cost approximately $11. No big savings either way.

Just face it, banks all over the world are in business to make money, and to do so, they charge for their services. The best thing to do is to perhaps transfer US dollars to a Thai bank via a wire transfer.

[vagabond48]

I use 2 USA based firms, Fidelity as my primary ATM card and Schwab as my backup. Both companies do not charge any fees and reimburse all external fees except the 1% foreign exchange fee. The only problem is that unlike using Visa ATM card in the states, Visa doesn't provide them with a separate line for any ATM banking fees, at least not in Thailand, Cambodia, or Vietnam. Until recently, I never paid a bank fee in Thailand. SCB began charging a 20 baht fee. Even though, it is reimbursable, I have begun using another fee free bank. If I travel to other countries where there are banking fees, I usually wait until I have got more than $3 in fees before calling. It can be a pain to get the fees reimbursed as some of the customer service people are not used to dealing with customers using their card internationally. They think the fixed fee I am referring to is the foreign currency fee. I have to educate them that a fixed ATM fee cannot be a variable "1%" foreign exchange fee which is charged by Visa and is different then a fee an ATM bank might charge.

[Jingthing]

. I tried to tell them that I was a USA citizen, I worked for a USA based company that direct deposited USD into my account, and I did all my banking/bill paying online. It didn’t matter, they were adamant not to allow me to keep the account since my mailing address was in LOS. I was almost going to provide them my old mailing address in Colorado where I have tenants in my house who are very trusting long time friends. Or even give them my brother’s address in Austin but I said he77 with them and pulled my 25K+ out of their bank.

This is why people like me maintain "faux" US identities. The US financial institutions often have a problem with expats. Some people call this lying, cheating, sleazy, but I feel it just makes everything easier.

[jfchandler]

There certainly are good U.S. banking options where you can avoid paying either a per transaction or percentage fee on ATM withdrawals in Thailand...talking about the U.S. end of the equation...

Folks above mentioned some of the brokerages... But for those without brokerage accounts, there are also regular U.S. banking options where either they don't charge such fees or they do and then reimburse them in some circumstances. There are also some accounts where they charge no international fees and will reimburse any bank fees from the other (Thai) country if they are assessed, usually up to some limit per month.

At the Thai end of the equation, while SCB has started charging a 20 baht per transaction fee on foreign card ATM withdrawals, other Thai banks have not followed suit as far as I know. BKK Bank, for example, if you live in/around BKK, has free ATM withdrawals from their machines and thus far no extra charge if a non-Thai debit/check card is used.

[Jimjim]

At the Thai end of the equation, while SCB has started charging a 20 baht per transaction fee on foreign card ATM withdrawals, other Thai banks have not followed suit as far as I know. BKK Bank, for example, if you live in/around BKK, has free ATM withdrawals from their machines and thus far no extra charge if a non-Thai debit/check card is used.

For using foreign cards in Thailand, I always use kasikorn ATMs with no problem.

SCB charged a 20 baht fee on my SCB account when I withdrew from an SCB ATM in Ko Samui using my SCB card. Ko Samui is considered a foreign country by them if your account is in Bangkok. Thai banks are such BS in this area. I know the whole every branch is like a separate bank thing in Thailand but that's just absolutely ridiculous.

[LivNon2396]

. I tried to tell them that I was a USA citizen, I worked for a USA based company that direct deposited USD into my account, and I did all my banking/bill paying online. It didn't matter, they were adamant not to allow me to keep the account since my mailing address was in LOS. I was almost going to provide them my old mailing address in Colorado where I have tenants in my house who are very trusting long time friends. Or even give them my brother's address in Austin but I said he77 with them and pulled my 25K+ out of their bank.

This is why people like me maintain "faux" US identities. The US financial institutions often have a problem with expats. Some people call this lying, cheating, sleazy, but I feel it just makes everything easier.

I have been using a Mail Forwarding Service which has worked out well. It is based in Texas and I even have an Apartment number. I get e-mail notification of new mail and can view a ddescription of the mail on line and have the choice to forward, junk it or just leave it until whenever. I have not tried to forward the mail onto another country yet, I just leave it pill up and send it on when I make a trip back to the states. If it is something that is urgent I forward it onto a family memeber to take care of it. The premium service is about $150 a year but I think it is worth it.

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[LivNon2396]

Sounds like Wachovia's handing you one big lie:

"Visa Inc. does not assess any fees to cardholders or merchants. Visa applies International Service Assessment (ISA) fees ranging from 0.15 to 1 percent to its financial institution partners for their use of the global payment system."

http://usa.visa.com/personal/using_visa/ex..._rates_faq.html

Now I thought that pain was coming from my wallet all this time but it seems it was coming alittle bit closer to my ass.

So by the looks of it, Wachovia is pocketing 1%-1.85% of my money every time I use the ATM machines overseas, plus $2.00 for a non-Wachovia machine and to top it all off by lying and putting all the blame/charges on VISA's shoulders.

I typed up an e-mail to Wachovia questioning their practice but when I hit send it went but not to them. Out into cyberville again. I should of copied it before sending. So will have to do it again.

What banks out there that are not charging Foreign Transaction Fees and waiving the Visa ISA fee?

I think it is time to give Wachovia the BOOT.

Any comments about Capital One?

[jfchandler]

Capital One, while ditzy about customer service sometimes, is good in that at least some of their credit card products charge no foreign transaction fee...

As for regular banks and ATM/Check cards that charge no foreign usage fees, one good option is Salem Five Direct....and their EOne Checking Account, which comes with a Visa debit card and has a lot of nice features and pays a decent interest rate as well. Account can be opened almost entirely online...

IndyMac Bank, despite having failed lately and been taken over by the FDIC, is another that offers a free checking account, debit card and no foreign usage charges. They're likely to be sold to another bank at some point in the future, so hard to know how long the current policies will remain in force. But right now... no foreign fees.

[vagabond48]

Capital One, while ditzy about customer service sometimes, is good in that at least some of their credit card products charge no foreign transaction fee...

As for regular banks and ATM/Check cards that charge no foreign usage fees, one good option is Salem Five Direct....and their EOne Checking Account, which comes with a Visa debit card and has a lot of nice features and pays a decent interest rate as well. Account can be opened almost entirely online...

IndyMac Bank, despite having failed lately and been taken over by the FDIC, is another that offers a free checking account, debit card and no foreign usage charges. They're likely to be sold to another bank at some point in the future, so hard to know how long the current policies will remain in force. But right now... no foreign fees.

You used several different fees descriptions with the word foreign, the only one I know about is the 1% foreign currency exchange fee. I have 3 different Visa debit cards and Visa doesn't provide my banks with a separate line for bank fees when used abroad, let alone a line for their foreign currency exchange fee. At least with the bank fee, I can tell to my banks what the fee amount was, since it appears on the receipt. How would you or the bank know what foreign currency exchange fee amount to reimburse?

I would love a card that is 100% fee free.

[jfchandler]

Vagabond, I have some experience with the question of PAYING fees... but not as much as others perhaps, because I've always tried to avoid them....

But speaking from personal experience, when I first was traveling to Thailand, I used to use a U.S. Bank of America visa debit card. And whenever I'd use it for a purchase or ATM withdrawal, I'd get up to three separate charge entries on my BofA statement: 1 for the purchase/withdrawal amount itself, 1 for the foreign transaction fee (1% or 3% at differing times), and then 1 reflecting a flat transaction charge from BofA (I think $1.50 or $2.50 at the time) for using a foreign ATM. That was enough for me to swear off ever using a BofA card abroad.

I can't speak to how every other U.S. bank handles these issues.

But, for example, I did see some communications direct from HSBC, I believe, lately where they talked about their assessing I believe a 3% fee on foreign purchase transactions, and then mentioning that of that 3% fee, they were keeping 2% and passing the other 1% onto Visa....

I have another U.S. bank account with a visa debit card. In that instance, every time I withdraw cash here from a Thai ATM, I get two different statement charges, one for the withdrawal amount, and then a separate $1.06 foreign transaction fee, regardless of the withdrawal amount. However, for that account, all my ATM fees are reimbursed at month's end. But I definitely see the fees assessed as separate items on my account statements.

Likewise, I have another U.S. credit card, that I rarely use here, that if I do use here, I also get two statement items for every purchase, one for the purchase and the other for a foreign transaction fee (3%) I believe.

I'm not sure how a U.S. bank could be charging you fees, without having them show up on your statements... Are you saying... if you make a $100 withdrawal or purchase here in reality, you only end up seeing a single bank statement item for $103 or whatever the added fee amount is???

[vagabond48]

Vagabond, I have some experience with the question of PAYING fees... but not as much as others perhaps, because I've always tried to avoid them....

I do as well that's why I have fee free cards excluding foreign currency exchange fee levied by Visa.

But speaking from personal experience, when I first was traveling to Thailand, I used to use a U.S. Bank of America visa debit card. And whenever I'd use it for a purchase or ATM withdrawal, I'd get up to three separate charge entries on my BofA statement: 1 for the purchase/withdrawal amount itself, 1 for the foreign transaction fee (1% or 3% at differing times), and then 1 reflecting a flat transaction charge from BofA (I think $1.50 or $2.50 at the time) for using a

foreign ATM. That was enough for me to swear off ever using a BofA card abroad.

The banks that I use do not issue any fees. The bank fees I refer to in Thailand (SCB so far), Cambodia and Vietnam are issued by the owner of the ATM machine which my banks reimburse me.

I can't speak to how every other U.S. bank handles these issues.

But, for example, I did see some communications direct from HSBC, I believe, lately where they talked about their assessing I believe a 3% fee on foreign purchase transactions, and then mentioning that of that 3% fee, they were keeping 2% and passing the other 1% onto Visa....

I was under the impression that Visa tacks on their 1% foreign exchange fee to the exchange rate the international ATM bank provides Visa.

I have another U.S. bank account with a visa debit card. In that instance, every time I withdraw cash here from a Thai ATM, I get two different statement charges, one for the withdrawal amount, and then a separate $1.06 foreign transaction fee, regardless of the withdrawal amount. However, for that account, all my ATM fees are reimbursed at month's end. But I definitely see the fees assessed as separate items on my account statements.

Unless the $1.06 appears on your ATM receipt, it sounds to me like the foreign fees you refer to might be issued by the ATM card issuer and not the owner of the ATM machine so I can see that fee appearing on your statements.

Likewise, I have another U.S. credit card, that I rarely use here, that if I do use here, I also get two statement items for every purchase, one for the purchase and the other for a foreign transaction fee (3%) I believe.

I'm not sure how a U.S. bank could be charging you fees, without having them show up on your statements... Are you saying... if you make a $100 withdrawal or purchase here in reality, you only end up seeing a single bank statement item for $103 or whatever the added fee amount is???

Yes. For example in Vietnam, If I withdrew, let's say 1600k dung, which if it was 16k to the $1US would $100US. The NZ bank charged flat fee of 17k dong (1.06US) regardless of the amount I withdrew. Visa would transmit a withdrawal amount of $101.06 The 17k is not a foreign bank fee but NZ's ATM fee. In Cambodia, NZ bank charged a flat $2US to withdraw any amount up to the maximum allowed US dollars.

[jfchandler]

Vagabond, you're talking at the end of your comment above about your local (NZ) banks charging you a flat transaction fee (a couple bucks) for using a foreign and/or non-home-bank ATM machine... Yes, those are pretty common among many banks, but not all...

When your home bank is charging you a flat transaction charge for using someone's ATM other than their own, yes, that charge is likely never going to appear on your Thailand or SEA ATM receipt... because... the SEA ATM has no way of knowing the fee policy of your bank back home... I'm assuming those charges would, however, show up separately on your monthly bank statement.

That's the same like BofA was doing to me when I first started traveling here... Hence, I quickly put my BofA card away whenever staying (or now living) in Thailand.

[vagabond48]

Vagabond, you're talking at the end of your comment above about your local (NZ) banks charging you a flat transaction fee (a couple bucks) for using a foreign and/or non-home-bank ATM machine... Yes, those are pretty common among many banks, but not all...

When your home bank is charging you a flat transaction charge for using someone's ATM other than their own, yes, that charge is likely never going to appear on your Thailand or SEA ATM receipt... because... the SEA ATM has no way of knowing the fee policy of your bank back home... I'm assuming those charges would, however, show up separately on your monthly bank statement.

That's the same like BofA was doing to me when I first started traveling here... Hence, I quickly put my BofA card away whenever staying (or now living) in Thailand.

Sorry, I guess I didn't make myself clear. NONE of my home banks charge any fee whatsoever. The fees that were charged, DID print on the receipt when I used the non-home-bank NZ ATM machines. The main point for me, is that the variable 1% foreign exchange fee that Visa charges has never appeared on a receipt, or gets transmitted by Visa to any of my home banks, therefore, I don't know how a bank could reimburse that fee if that is one of the fees they say is reimbursable.

[Lancelot]

I was also caught up in the Net Bank/ING situation. Net Bank never charged a "Currency Conversion" fee, but when ING acquired mmy account, a 2% fee was charged on my withdrawl.

So, I opened a checking/ATM account with my old Credit Union back in the USA. no 2% fees My brokerage account doesn't charge a fee either

Screw ING

[LivNon2396]

SOME MORE LIP SERVICE FROM WACHOVIA!

Welcome to Wachovia! My name is Sheila W and I am happy to assist you.

Effective April 1, 2008 Visa began assessing Wachovia a new fee called

the single-currency ISA fee. The 2% fee is assessed for all debit card

transactions made internationally in US dollars. The fee appears as a

separate line item on your checking account statement and in online

banking. Customers were notified in their checking account statements.

This is the agreement between Visa and Wachovia. As these fees are not

charged in error, we are unable to refund the fees.

Note: The single currency ISA fee is a new fee and is separate from the

existing multi-currency ISA fee change implemented in 2007.

The difference between a multi-currency and single-currency is

determined by what currency the transaction, that is point of sale or

ATM, starts. The transactions all settle in US dollars; therefore, if

the transaction starts in a currency other than US dollars, for example

Euros, then it is a multi-currency transaction. If it starts in US

dollars and settles in US dollars, then it is a single currency

transaction.

International Service Assessments (ISA) are applied only on transactions

outside the US or its territories.

If you have additional questions or concerns, please contact us via

e-mail or you may contact Wachovia via our International Customer

Service number at 800-8277-4314.

This 11-digit toll-free number must be preceded by the country code for

the country from which you are calling and the Country Code for the USA,

which is one. For example, if the country code for the country from

which you are calling is 999, you would dial 999-800-8277-4314.

[taxout]

Lies and more lies.

VISA charges banks a "single-currency" ISA of 0.8 percent, not 2.0 percent.

http://www.complianceheadquarters.com/Comp...sit_022208.aspx

Claiming that the entire fee is going to VISA when it doesn't smells of fraud.

The Federal Reserve Bank regulates disclosure of these fees under Regulation E; they accept complaints against banks which have engaged in misleading behavior.

http://www.federalreserveconsumerhelp.gov/...info.cfm?info=4

http://www.federalreserveconsumerhelp.gov/?District=13

http://www.federalreserveconsumerhelp.gov/...info.cfm?info=1

If you complain, be clear that your complaint is the misleading statement that the whole fee is imposed by, and going to, VISA. If your bank wants to impose its own surcharge it can, but it has to properly disclose it as such.

Edited August 5, 2008 by taxout