How Can Smart People Be Superstitious?

[ourmaninbangers]

I find it hard to believe that few non-believers can set about saying that all religions are false, and that belief and faith are merely superstition. Personally, I'm open to accept a person's faith in their religion, it's their's and not mine to criticize. For those that adamantly feel the need to decry their disbelief, then forever hold to it. Don't be the first to call upon "the one" that doesn't exist when a family member or yourself are in dire straights. Don't use the semblance of his name in your cursing or daily language. Personally, I'm going to keep an open mind about religions, all religions, I can't prove them wrong, neither can I prove them right. Historically, the Bible is more correct than wrong, there are disparities, it was written by human hand. The Big Bang theory has many truths about it too, but it too is flawed, you can ask any serious astronomer and physicist and they will tell you that the big bang theory and the expansion of the universe are also flawed, they too were written by human hand. It's all basically our human attempt to explain the unexplainable. Many people do it in many different ways... it's no ones right, to say that anyone is wrong or stupid for choosing the explanation that best fits them. The bottom line is, there is either some higher diety or being that has all the answers, or theres not. I can guarantee one thing, there's no human alive today that has them all here now. I'm not pretending to know anything... I'm writing from my own point of view, and about my own beliefs. You all are free to believe or disbelieve what you want... I merely choose to leave my options open... and not pass judgement on others because their beliefs are different than mine. Saying someone elses beliefs are false without evidence is wrong... people shouldn't always have to prove they're right, take the initiative, and prove that they're wrong.

some virgin gave birth did she?- a man walked on water did he? noah- the world in 5 days- that if you go to lourdes and touch some old stature you get better ( I must admit I do laugh when I hear of how many drop dead soon after- seems like she was,nt on form that day-poor old girl) etc, etc,

Or getting on your knees 5 times a day and making aweful noises will get you anything- other than sore knees.

Or standing against a wall and rocking back and forth will help in any way.

How can anyone in their right mind believe in all this nonsense?, and how can anyone trust anyone that seriously does?

These people are the sheep, the desperate ones, the self deluded.

Clinging to their pathetic dietys and beliefs because they want something that they know reality is,nt going to give them.

Do you know why people like this dislike people like me- because deep down they know its all crap.

I pity them- I cannot really respect anyone who really believes in such tosh.

[Dustoff]

Oh, come on folks! Why is it that I see this thread headed for a quick death?

The OP, as I see it, is about superstitions in Thailand and how they affect people's lives - which is true of any superstition or belief, large or small but this is THAI Visa.. about Thailand..

I also find most Thai superstitions entertaining and can shrug and go with the 'anything is possible' concept but there is also the other side - that the OP alluded to - that they can very seriously disrupt people's lives and cause them far more stress and expense than they would 'normally' have to endure. That would include not only their making detrimental choices in everyday life but unscrupulous people taking serious advantage of their fears and gullibility.

This true in local village superstitions in Thailand to leaders of powerful nations saying that God spoke to them, took their side, and commanded them to go to war against other nations - but hopefully we can keep this particular thread focused on local manifestations, yes?

[5tash]

I heard an interesting one the other day. A burglar will often leave a "trademark" before leaving the scene. By doing this the burglar believes that they will not be caught.

[sylviex]

I, *personally* , don't see why we might not express genuine responses to and thoughts about our lives as expats n Thailand without always having to "accentuate the positive; disregard the negative".

And I don't see why we might not talk about what happens in other countries, either. How can you have any useful discussion without that context ?

[0Mix1up]

Actually its moronic to use such a word.

Whether you believe or not there are many wise intelligent people involved in religion.

[soic]

Oh, come on folks! Why is it that I see this thread headed for a quick death?

The OP, as I see it, is about superstitions in Thailand and how they affect people's lives - which is true of any superstition or belief, large or small but this is THAI Visa.. about Thailand..

I also find most Thai superstitions entertaining and can shrug and go with the 'anything is possible' concept but there is also the other side - that the OP alluded to - that they can very seriously disrupt people's lives and cause them far more stress and expense than they would 'normally' have to endure. That would include not only their making detrimental choices in everyday life but unscrupulous people taking serious advantage of their fears and gullibility.

This true in local village superstitions in Thailand to leaders of powerful nations saying that God spoke to them, took their side, and commanded them to go to war against other nations - but hopefully we can keep this particular thread focused on local manifestations, yes?

True, and well said. I was just dissappointed that we were on a trail from Superstition to Theology. We don't need to pull the whole religion and our particular belief system into the mix. We have to allow ourselves to be open to the ways of the world. We don't have to embrace them, just accept that some others believe in them, and rely on them for whatever comfort that they can get from them. I don't see any harm in that, whether I believe in it or not. I don't see them as stupid or braindead as some others.

I understand you point about superstitions and them causing us discomfort or financial loss. It can happen in western countries as well. I was married to a Romanian lady for 6 years, I took her to America, her parents went to the states for a visit and decided not to go back to Romania. I had found us a nice lot in an up and coming subdivision. I was able to lock in a price for a new home to be built for $158,000 us. When my ex and her mother were going to look at it for one of the final inspections, they noticed that the sun wasn't shining in the front windows. My ex-mother-in-law talked my ex into not buying the house. By this time, the other houses in the neighborhood were selling for $220,000 us. I told her that we'd go ahead and close on it, and then sell it for a profit. They adamantly refused... I was stuck here in Iraq and couldn't go myself. What could have been a $34,000.00 profit turned into a $6,000 loss after I had to back out of the contract. All because of the sun shining in the front window.

It's an expensive lesson learned sometimes... if we discount them, call them stupid or tell them that they're wrong, it only causes more, and different problems. When I married my Thai wife, we had to go to the Monk to set a date. She told the Monk the dates that I would be in country and he of course picked dates for after I was due to leave. I didn't get angry or tell her that he or they were stupid, I found a way around it. I had her go to a different monk and had her give him new dates... dates that left a few days on the front end of the timeframe and a few days on the end. Sure enough, he picked a date, a day prior to the first day we gave. We were able to marry and it all worked out. If we take the time to learn why and what they believe, sometimes we can apply a little thought and logic to get around the superstition, without offending anyone or hurting their feelings.

[kokesaat]

My brain is western oriented. I view the Thais as eastern oriented. (Whatever eastern/western really means). The Thai weight lifter who won the gold medal said she changed first/last names because a 'nun' told her she'd never be a champion with her old name. The police chief who led the Samui drug bust said he picked August 1 because a fortune teller told him it was a good day. My brain doesn't compute. Likewise, I'm sure Thais think the same thing when we tell them the miracle of bread and wine or the parting of the sea. I'm not knocking the Thai way of thinking......it just doesn't compute in my brain. And I've been married to a Thai for 35 years.

[Heng]

It's all part of the game. Just because you partake in the traditions doesn't mean you have all of your eggs in that one basket. Thaksin has a fortune teller, but it doesn't mean that he just went home after having his fortune told and hoped that someone would build up a telecoms empire for him. The Halliburton folks who go to church every Sunday probably didn't just "pray to God" that one day there would be a war (or two) where they could provide a good amount of the support services and that "God" would grant them a bunch of contracts.

This is unlike the general populace, who often do bet the farm on religion and superstition. If you buy lottery tickets or sit around complaining about the government (both examples of waiting around for "external" forces... not unlike karma, luck, or God... to affect your life), guess which group you're a member of.

i am not sure if you are saying its just for show or not, but i do believe that these people believe in it. if only a little, its still strange. i guess old habits are hard to kick

Whether consciously and/or subconsciouly, IMO those whose are on the upper end of the socio-economic spectrum "know" that karma, luck, or God doesn't dictate where the chips fall. "I believe in God, but I know that if I don't keep in close contact with my fellow Bonesmen, that God won't grant us this contract." "I believe my fortune teller, but I know that if I don't secure this gov't concession with a lot of white envelopes, that I'll never be a billionaire."

Those who both "believe" in these 'external' concepts on all levels of thought IMO make up the majority of the people on the planet (and at the same time most of the middle and lower ends of the socio-economic spectrum).

[lannarebirth]

It's all part of the game. Just because you partake in the traditions doesn't mean you have all of your eggs in that one basket. Thaksin has a fortune teller, but it doesn't mean that he just went home after having his fortune told and hoped that someone would build up a telecoms empire for him. The Halliburton folks who go to church every Sunday probably didn't just "pray to God" that one day there would be a war (or two) where they could provide a good amount of the support services and that "God" would grant them a bunch of contracts.

This is unlike the general populace, who often do bet the farm on religion and superstition. If you buy lottery tickets or sit around complaining about the government (both examples of waiting around for "external" forces... not unlike karma, luck, or God... to affect your life), guess which group you're a member of.

i am not sure if you are saying its just for show or not, but i do believe that these people believe in it. if only a little, its still strange. i guess old habits are hard to kick

Whether consciously and/or subconsciouly, IMO those whose are on the upper end of the socio-economic spectrum "know" that karma, luck, or God doesn't dictate where the chips fall. "I believe in God, but I know that if I don't keep in close contact with my fellow Bonesmen, that God won't grant us this contract." "I believe my fortune teller, but I know that if I don't secure this gov't concession with a lot of white envelopes, that I'll never be a billionaire."

Those who both "believe" in these 'external' concepts on all levels of thought IMO make up the majority of the people on the planet (and at the same time most of the middle and lower ends of the socio-economic spectrum).

I thik "smart" people publically engage in these superstiton related activites to reinforce the idea in the minnd of "dumb" people. It takes their eye off the ball. If you didn't get found innocent it's just your bad luck and not your criminal behavior. If you get a big govt. contract it's because you deserve it from your karma and merit making and not because you greased a hundred palms. It's something they can share with the common people.

[mizzi39]

Superstition: A belief in supernatural influences, or a practice based on this

Religion: A belief in And worship of God or gods.

Theory: A set of ideas intended to explain something. (not much of this happening here)

ignorant: Lacking knowledge

Moron: (informal) A stupid person

OP: Ignorant moron

Edited August 11, 2008 by mizzi39

[AmeriThai]

How can smart people be superstitious? Probably for much the same reasons that some smart people in the West faithfully read the daily horoscopes.

I once asked a Thai friend of mine about an amulet he was wearing, and he told me it was to protect him from accident or death when he is traveling. I think most of us are also aware of amulets that are supposed to protect the wearer from bullets, etc. So, I asked my friend, what if the person dies in an accident while wearing the amulet? He said, then maybe the amulet isn't genuine. I then asked do you believe it can actually protect you. He said with a sheepish smile, well maybe only 50-50.

Saying someone elses beliefs are false without evidence is wrong... people shouldn't always have to prove they're right, take the initiative, and prove that they're wrong.

The burden of proof falls on the shoulders of the person saying certain claims are true, not necessarily the other way around.

some virgin gave birth did she?- a man walked on water did he? noah- the world in 5 days- that if you go to lourdes and touch some old stature you get better ( I must admit I do laugh when I hear of how many drop dead soon after- seems like she was,nt on form that day-poor old girl) etc, etc,

Or getting on your knees 5 times a day and making aweful noises will get you anything- other than sore knees.

Or standing against a wall and rocking back and forth will help in any way.

How can anyone in their right mind believe in all this nonsense?, and how can anyone trust anyone that seriously does?

These people are the sheep, the desperate ones, the self deluded.

Clinging to their pathetic dietys and beliefs because they want something that they know reality is,nt going to give them.

Do you know why people like this dislike people like me- because deep down they know its all crap.

I pity them- I cannot really respect anyone who really believes in such tosh.

I think you're missing something. A lot, if not most, legends may be based on real incidents. However, in the retelling of the incident over centuries or thousands of years, parts may have been omitted or forgotten, or just don't include enough detail. Over time, as the stories change they begin to resemble supernatural events. The original event may have happened in a more natural way instead of the impression given in the modern telling of the event. That doesn't mean the event didn't happen. Just that it may have happened a bit differently than told. There just isn't enough detail given.

The point isn't that people are self-deluded for believing certain things. People believe what they do because they have learned it from countless generations before them. While the belief may have undergone gradual changes over time, to where the legend might have little resemblence to the original, a number of critics also seem similar to "the sheep, the desperate ones, the self deluded." Superstitious beliefs didn't necessarily pop up out of thin air. Legends may be based on real events, but you also have to take into account the knowledge that was available at the time. An earthquake, a volcanic eruption, a tsunami, drought, etc., would've easily been seen by ancient humans as supernatural events, especially when they had no other knowledge as to why or how such things happen.

Perhaps that you "cannot really respect anyone who really believes in such tosh" has less to do with what people believe and more to do with what you yourself might not know about the origins of certain legends and superstitions, or why some people today still believe them? You've cited a number of examples that you claim to be nonsense without showing why they are nonsense. Don't get me wrong though. I agree some people can and do indeed take some superstitious legends and things to extreme. But sometimes it also helps looking at the larger picture before being too critical. If certain legends and superstitions have been retold and passed on for who knows how many generations, it's not unreasonable to understand that there are going to be people who still believe those superstitions and legends today.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

I think most of the "superstition" has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "religion" - as the main religion here is Buddhism, i know not too much about it but i seriously doubt that Buddha would have consulted fortune tellers or "shamans".....

Another thing from my family surrounding is the "magic" stuff - if someone gets sick it is not because they caught a bug but because the "evil neighbour" had gone to a shaman to perform some "black magic". The solution? Go to a shaman and have some "white magic" done. And in the evening the two shamans sit in the pub talking of their clients

it's pretty much all about the mighty Baht. Sure someone who behaves strange does so because "there's a ghost inside", no problem - a little ritual for a few hundred Baht will heal that person and chase that ghost away, same with the already mentioned car in the wrong colour - donation to fortune teller (few thousand), ritual at temple (few thousand) and the sticker determining the REAL colour of the car (few hundred) and all is fine.

Oh, and that "changing name game", my boyfriend's sister went through that as well. The change of the name was free, but having the proper name selected by, of course, a fortune teller was billed for some 18.000 Baht. Of course it was that same fortune teller that said in first place that her name was "unlucky"........ oh, and he also said that my boyfriend's name also contains one unlucky letter and suggested a change..... to which MY reply was: "As long as we are together you are protected by the German supermagic". There's better things to do with 18.000 Baht...........

Oh, and how come that the fortune teller always knows everything? Like, when that land deal fell through, my BF's mum was at the fortune teller's place an hour after... and the fortune teller, or rather his "medium" who talked to the ghosts, already knew it......... my idea is that the person selling the land went to that same fortune teller half an hour earlier as that is the "common fortune teller" for the whole village.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Spee]

Superstition: A belief in supernatural influences, or a practice based on this

Religion: A belief in And worship of God or gods.

Theory: A set of ideas intended to explain something. (not much of this happening here)

You forgot to add:

Fact: Something which is undeniably proven to be true.

While it is quite safe to state that not all superstitions, religions and theories have basis in fact, it is also quite safe and reasonable to assume that some do. Which ones do and which ones don't? Ah, therein lie the mysteries, secrets, fun and sometimes harsh realities of life.

As one author interestingly opined in the title of his book: "God Does Not Play Dice."

However, we are not gods and so must roll the dice and take our chances in our own religious beliefs, superstitions and theories. Far be it from me to criticize that of another, when he or she may actually be dealing in fact and I may not.

[Gaccha]

I think you are all missing something : i wish to suggest that you are all to some degree superstitious . Many of the logical, rational humanists among you will quickly deny this, so let me lay out a scenrio for you:

Imagine if I gave you a cardigan, that had been carefully washed, and looked brand new. If I then asked you to wear it, you would probably be quite relaxed about the request. But then let's says I tell you that it was actually owned and worn by Harold Shipman (or any other psychopathic mass murderer). You will probably refuse to wear it.

What is going on here? Well, at the most banal level, you are being superstitious. We could talk about a concern of object transference; that you fear in someway his misdeeds will be considered to be yours. But I think it still holds that you are being superstitious.

As someone who is hyper-rational (I certainly don't believe in God, fairies, horoscopes, ghosts) I find it uncomfortable but undeniable that humans are inherently superstitious. They are agent-orientated. That is, if an event occurs (e.g a banging of a door) then they will assume a live agent (e.g. a ghost) caused it. This has tremendous evolutionary advantages. If you fear a tiger is behind you when the wind rustles a hedge, then even if you are wrong 500 times in a row, you still will survive while the sceptic human who does not check the rustling grass gets eaten on the 500 th occasion.

Consequently, believing horoscopes, or changing your name under the instructions of a fortune teller all of a sudden make sense...

[lifeisrandom]

the funniest thing is when people say "yeah, i agree superstitions are silly but one thing, believing in God/buddha/ghsots/astrology/fengshui/magic is not a superstition".. its like when a Catholic says "yeah, I agree, all the other organized religions are ridiculous". Put a Jew and a Christian in the same room and they can tell you everything wrong with the other's religion but not their own.

and yes, if you believe in this stuff it means its likely that you lack the ability to think logically. of course, like Heng and others have mentioned, many 'know' that these things aren't true and just sort of play along as its a form of their culture/enivorment. still, you won't find me going to any church or whispering any messages to god in a hole in a mountain.

and yes, we can't prove astrology readings dont work. i guess thats a good basis to believe in it!

Edited August 11, 2008 by lifeisrandom

[lifeisrandom]

I think you are all missing something : i wish to suggest that you are all to some degree superstitious . Many of the logical, rational humanists among you will quickly deny this, so let me lay out a scenrio for you:

Imagine if I gave you a cardigan, that had been carefully washed, and looked brand new. If I then asked you to wear it, you would probably be quite relaxed about the request. But then let's says I tell you that it was actually owned and worn by Harold Shipman (or any other psychopathic mass murderer). You will probably refuse to wear it.

What is going on here? Well, at the most banal level, you are being superstitious. We could talk about a concern of object transference; that you fear in someway his misdeeds will be considered to be yours. But I think it still holds that you are being superstitious.

As someone who is hyper-rational (I certainly don't believe in God, fairies, horoscopes, ghosts) I find it uncomfortable but undeniable that humans are inherently superstitious. They are agent-orientated. That is, if an event occurs (e.g a banging of a door) then they will assume a live agent (e.g. a ghost) caused it. This has tremendous evolutionary advantages. If you fear a tiger is behind you when the wind rustles a hedge, then even if you are wrong 500 times in a row, you still will survive while the sceptic human who does not check the rustling grass gets eaten on the 500 th occasion.

Consequently, believing horoscopes, or changing your name under the instructions of a fortune teller all of a sudden make sense...

your example is silly. the object has an emotional attachment to it. you dont want to wear it because it reminds me of the fact that someone who killed people for fun wore it.

thinking that wearing it will turn you into a killer or bring you bad luck, that is superstition.

[Heng]

This has tremendous evolutionary advantages. If you fear a tiger is behind you when the wind rustles a hedge, then even if you are wrong 500 times in a row, you still will survive while the sceptic human who does not check the rustling grass gets eaten on the 500 th occasion.

Unfortunately, the pinnacle of this line of thinking evolution-wise is mere survival. When applied towards increasing the quality of food/shelter/clothing/medicine, there is virtually no evolutionary advantage.

[cmsally]

In answer to the OP - maybe hedging their bets?

Are we going to include Feng Shui in the category of superstition. Seems to be used a lot by some pretty smart people.

[AmeriThai]

In answer to the OP - maybe hedging their bets?

Are we going to include Feng Shui in the category of superstition. Seems to be used a lot by some pretty smart people.

While it's based on metaphysical superstition involving a balance of various forces, it can be rather pleasant to the eye when applied to architecture, landscape design and interior design. In the West, I think it's more often a trendy thing. Centering your life around it isn't necessarily going to make a person any smarter or prosperous though.

Edited August 12, 2008 by AmeriThai

[Gaccha]

I think you are all missing something : i wish to suggest that you are all to some degree superstitious . Many of the logical, rational humanists among you will quickly deny this, so let me lay out a scenrio for you:

Imagine if I gave you a cardigan, that had been carefully washed, and looked brand new. If I then asked you to wear it, you would probably be quite relaxed about the request. But then let's says I tell you that it was actually owned and worn by Harold Shipman (or any other psychopathic mass murderer). You will probably refuse to wear it.

What is going on here? Well, at the most banal level, you are being superstitious. We could talk about a concern of object transference; that you fear in someway his misdeeds will be considered to be yours. But I think it still holds that you are being superstitious.

As someone who is hyper-rational (I certainly don't believe in God, fairies, horoscopes, ghosts) I find it uncomfortable but undeniable that humans are inherently superstitious. They are agent-orientated. That is, if an event occurs (e.g a banging of a door) then they will assume a live agent (e.g. a ghost) caused it. This has tremendous evolutionary advantages. If you fear a tiger is behind you when the wind rustles a hedge, then even if you are wrong 500 times in a row, you still will survive while the sceptic human who does not check the rustling grass gets eaten on the 500 th occasion.

Consequently, believing horoscopes, or changing your name under the instructions of a fortune teller all of a sudden make sense...

your example is silly. the object has an emotional attachment to it. you dont want to wear it because it reminds me of the fact that someone who killed people for fun wore it.

thinking that wearing it will turn you into a killer or bring you bad luck, that is superstition.

Think about what you have just said: it is not a superstition but an emotional attachment. That is exactly what superstition is predicated on. You keep an object feeling it will bring you good luck because you saw a temple priest bathe it in some water in the temple. Despite this being wholly irrational you sense/feel that it might, just might, carry across some of the characteristics-- that is it is a symbol of some emotional event.

In addition, I believe you are underestimating your unwillingness to wear the cardigan. Even if I really pushed you to wear it, you would be very unwilling to do so. If it were merely a question of not wanting to be reminded of a bad event, then you could simply wear it for a few seconds, but I am suggesting you will be unable and unwilling to wear it all together. This is irrational. This is superstition.

[Gaccha]

This has tremendous evolutionary advantages. If you fear a tiger is behind you when the wind rustles a hedge, then even if you are wrong 500 times in a row, you still will survive while the sceptic human who does not check the rustling grass gets eaten on the 500 th occasion.

Unfortunately, the pinnacle of this line of thinking evolution-wise is mere survival. When applied towards increasing the quality of food/shelter/clothing/medicine, there is virtually no evolutionary advantage.

Au contraire , you are simply looking at the wrong advantages. What, pray tell, does not eating pork have as a survival advantage...? Well, it gives a tribe in hostile climate in the desert one serious advantage; it stops its young men deserting to other tribes. Since these young men cannot live in the other tribes-- because they could not now face the thought of eating pork-- they remain hyper-loyal to the tribe and so the tribe blossoms.

Superstitions virtually always have an evolutionary advantage. I would have thought that religion is particularly obvious. Tell your tribespeople that they have been especially chosen by a Deity and tell them paradise awaits and they will fight better. Fight better, and your tribe (even if you don't) survives.

[dingdongrb]

What are examples of superstitions some Thais take seriously ?

My wife's family has many superstitions but here are a few that made me smile:

1) When the Thai children loose one of their 'baby' teeth instead of placing it under their pillow for the 'tooth fairy' (the story of farang's 'tooth fairy' brought a smile and questionable look on the wife's face) they toss it up on the roof of the house. I asked why they did this and the reply I received was, "So the chickens don't eat it." I was told that if the chickens eat the lost tooth then a new one would not grow back.

2) When a new baby is born in the Thai family they tie a string loosely around the baby's belly. I am told that this is so the baby does not grow up fat.

3) One that I had placed on TV before.... When an unmarried woman (single, widower, divorcee) dies in the local village all the married women place a 'scarecrow' out front of their house. This supposedly keeps the dead woman's ghost from coming back and stealing their husbands.

My only superstition:

1) 'Good Friday' is indeed a good Friday for me as back in 1995 I won $10k USD on a slot machine on this day!

[Dustoff]

Au contraire , you are simply looking at the wrong advantages. What, pray tell, does not eating pork have as a survival advantage...? Well, it gives a tribe in hostile climate in the desert one serious advantage; it stops its young men deserting to other tribes. Since these young men cannot live in the other tribes-- because they could not now face the thought of eating pork-- they remain hyper-loyal to the tribe and so the tribe blossoms.

Superstitions virtually always have an evolutionary advantage. I would have thought that religion is particularly obvious. Tell your tribespeople that they have been especially chosen by a Deity and tell them paradise awaits and they will fight better. Fight better, and your tribe (even if you don't) survives.

You seem to make many assumptions about people and make sweeping generalizations that are very limited in scope.

Were I to resist wearing your 'jinxed' cardigan, it would likely be because you have poor taste in attire and nothing more. I prefer new clothing because I can afford it but if I did wear used clothing, unless I knew that the previous owner died of a highly contagious disease, who that person was would have no bearing on my choice whatsoever.

It has been my observation that the great majority of supersitions, and religions, are simply fear-based and/or use fear extensively (as do governments) to control the masses.

I fail to see how fear of ghosts/zombies (or throwing a baby tooth on the roof - good one) improves the 'tribe' in a local Thai village.

[mizzi39]

I Have enjoyed reading through the (some) opinions on this thread, although my opinion of the OP has not changed! Someone stated that I forgot to add fact to an earlier post. OK fair enough. Just because something whether it be religion, superstition, supernatural, etc. are not known to be true, or cannot be proven by the laws of nature does not make it irrelevant in anyway, it just means that it cannot be proven, nor dis proven as of yet.

Edited August 12, 2008 by mizzi39

[sylviex]

I fail to see how fear of ghosts/zombies (or throwing a baby tooth on the roof - good one) improves the 'tribe' in a local Thai village.

I guess shared beliefs are cohesive.

But I ain't wearing no cardigans in this weather.

Note: Thais are possibly more Animist then Buddhist.

Thanks for the examples, dingdong. Interesting.

[klikster]

Exactly so...In the US Presidential elections in 1960 it was even an issue that John F. Kennedy was Catholic.

That's not superstition, but the possibility that a person's background might well influence his decisions while serving.

[brinkey1980]

so i hear thaskin is burying a lucky flower or something under the manchester city field to make his team lucky, and i remember him and other prominant Thai officials consulting fortune tellers and i have met many many intelligent Thai people who still believe in this type of stuff. it causes a problem for me because only morons believe in this stuff. now my GF says "This condo is not good because its infront of a temple and thats bad luck."...Great, babe.

i think it is just a belief. in that way, they think they can get great achievement and god will bless them to do it. every one has his own religion. so there is no need to blame them.

[PeaceBlondie]

Gaacha wrote, "If you fear a tiger is behind you when the wind rustles a hedge, then even if you are wrong 500 times in a row, you still will survive while the sceptic human who does not check the rustling grass gets eaten on the 500 th occasion." I know that fable - Aesop called it "The boy who cried hedge".

I asked for these kinds of riveting, intellectual topics. But did you know it was unlucky to start a General Topic about superstition on August 11?

[Heng]

[Heng]

This has tremendous evolutionary advantages. If you fear a tiger is behind you when the wind rustles a hedge, then even if you are wrong 500 times in a row, you still will survive while the sceptic human who does not check the rustling grass gets eaten on the 500 th occasion.

Unfortunately, the pinnacle of this line of thinking evolution-wise is mere survival. When applied towards increasing the quality of food/shelter/clothing/medicine, there is virtually no evolutionary advantage.

Au contraire , you are simply looking at the wrong advantages. What, pray tell, does not eating pork have as a survival advantage...? Well, it gives a tribe in hostile climate in the desert one serious advantage; it stops its young men deserting to other tribes. Since these young men cannot live in the other tribes-- because they could not now face the thought of eating pork-- they remain hyper-loyal to the tribe and so the tribe blossoms.

Superstitions virtually always have an evolutionary advantage. I would have thought that religion is particularly obvious. Tell your tribespeople that they have been especially chosen by a Deity and tell them paradise awaits and they will fight better. Fight better, and your tribe (even if you don't) survives.

Right back at ya'. (post #54 provides a good response, so I'll give my typist a short break)