Thaksin and Wife Fail to Board Return Flight

[bangkokrick]

bulmercke- no confrontation at all . Just sounds like a silly thai rumor. Have you lived in the UK ? Do you know how paranoid THEY are ?! After the bombings, they are very strict about the origin of funds.. Surely they've found it to be legit, otherwise, they wouldn't let him stay there. Cash is one of those things,that'd surely drive them nuts .

As the rumour goes the planes did not land directly in the UK but stopped off somewhere on the way so it is possibly true. Who knows?

Cheers, Rick

[Tony Clifton]

I bought this online and had it mailed to him.

[bulmercke]

bulmercke- no confrontation at all . Just sounds like a silly thai rumor. Have you lived in the UK ? Do you know how paranoid THEY are ?! After the bombings, they are very strict about the origin of funds.. Surely they've found it to be legit, otherwise, they wouldn't let him stay there. Cash is one of those things,that'd surely drive them nuts .

I'm English and left the place to live and work here (BKK) fifteen years ago.

I listened to a BBC Radio Four documentary about a year ago that exposed the very lapse laws that exist in the UK concerning the laundering of overseas funds (particularly from totally corrupt African nations) in the city of London and elsewhere in the UK.

The documentary - which I believe was telling the truth - high-lighted several examples of funds - which were quite obviously suspect - being laundered in UK banks -

The documentary was very critical of UK banks and their lapse attitude concerning the inflow of funds from impoverished African nations and not so impoverished nations -

It also talked about the lack of legislation - that currently exists - to scrutinise and confiscate - or freeze - ill-gottten

investments from the third world - Thailand included -

[rayw]

My angle is obvious. I am a Brit living here in LOS but still paying tax in the UK on my pension and am one of those old school guys who just happens to believe in decency and honesty.

Pray tell why you have chosen to live out your pension years in a country where decency and honesty within the government are essentially non-existent?

Why not?? Surely you cannot be insinuating that all falangs that retire here cannot be reasonably honest and decent ?? I love it here and most ordinary Thai people are in fact decent and honest people too. Obvious that if I did not like it here I would not stay here nor have moved here in the first place. It is never cold and I can afford to live here on a modest pension. Enough reason for many of us surely. What a strange question ??? Tell me where else has such a nice atmosphere, never cold and is relatively cheap to live ?? Anyway this is off topic but thought I would reply.

Now must also e-mail my old constituency MP about this too as somebody else did. I truly want this Taksin lowlife sent back to Thailand to stand trial as ordered by the courts, and for his wife to justly serve her designated jail sentence too, that is what justice is about in any civilised country like Thailand certainly is.

Edited August 12, 2008 by rayw

[rayw]

btw. i'm still waiting for anyone to explain, what makes Thaksin any worse, than other rulers of this land ?!?

No need to explain, Taksin was not clever enough to avoid being caught just like Richard Nixon for example who I feel was far less crooked than Toxin. Maybe Toxin is no worse than others here but he WAS the PM which surely means his dishonest disregard of the trust expected of his position does make him somewhat worse than the other corrupt bastards. Doesn't matter if he is just one of thousands, each one of them in time needs catching and standing trial and paying for their misdemeanours. Surely you do not advocate that we should all sit back and just allow criminal fraud to have a free rein with no judicial penalties being imposed on the perpetrators ???

[rayw]

Thai FM considers revoking Thaksin's diplomatic passport

Multi-billionaire Mr. Thaksin has his own residence in England and also bought Manchester City football club last year. His status of doing business in the UK raises questions as to whether his extradition is possible.

Mr. Tej said he would rather not say that an "obstacle" existed, but ministry officials would need to enquire with the Thai embassy in London, as well as the Home and Foreign offices of the British government as to whether there is a possibility of extraditing the couple to Thailand.

-- TNA 2008-08-12

Again this is bloody disgusting. So if you do business in England then itis saying you have a safe haven there no matter what hideous crimes you may have committed in other countries That is grossly stupid and unjust and no better than all the tinpot countries Britain and the US chastise for doing similar things. None of us should tolerate that. This does need raising at high level in the UK parliament. So it implies the rich could get away with literally murder and safely go to England where they happen to have a house and business without fear of extradition BLOODY INTOLERABLE . If you agree with my feelings on this issue and you are a Brit then you really must e-mail or write to your local UK MP and tell him how angry you are about all of this Taksin issue and how in a democracy they need to apply laws equally to both rich and poor.

[Shah Jahan]

It was trading a Thai temple for a Casino that broke the camels back this time. That was against the rules of the game.

Just like selling a national asset to singapore got him booted in the first place.

should have learned.

[Prakanong]

It was trading a Thai temple for a Casino that broke the camels back this time. That was against the rules of the game.

Just like selling a national asset to singapore got him booted in the first place.

should have learned.

National asset to Singapore - so we want all Thai national assets to be nationalised - I thought it was a capitalist country - it was his company after all.

Do you believe this type of company in your own country should not be sold to foreigners?

As a Brit I could not give a flying f through a rolling donut who owns Vodafone, O2 et al - why was it so bad for Taksin to sell his own company?

Now I do not agree with Thaksin in many things and he should have paid tax on his gains really but it was his right to sell his company - I think Temasek was foolish to buy it though and its not one of their best assets

[Prakanong]

Interesting notion of the British working class hatred of the rich - thing is though a lot of the haters are not only English

Well it was just one of the thing, that sprang to my mind, like bar closures. Nothing personal, even thou it's obvious that his relaxed stay in the UK adds fuel into the fire..

As for tolerated aliens - we are in Singapore too

C'mon don't compare..ask anyone,who lives there. One can get Permanent Residency & Citizenship, if one wants.. S'pore is THE Easiest place in asia to naturalise into a full-rights citizen.. Thailand is firmly on the other end of the stick !

Btw. local expats may like to know, that anyone married to Singapore resident-citizen gets PR Very Fast, & can become citisen in a couple of years<that what i meant by comparing to S'pore>

I live in Singapore and could get PR very quickly due to who I work for - its 3 months at my company.

My boss is now a citixen too.

Still does not change the fact that we are still only tolerated and every couple of months there is a backlash against foreign talent in the govt mouthpiece local papers. Of course its easier than Thailand et al but that is not my point v- we are still only tolerated as they need us and nobody locally can do our jobs.

BTW: I agree with you regarding Thaksin - while I do not like him I think there are a lot worse in Thailand and who have never faced justice and never will.

[sriracha john]

BTW: I agree with you regarding Thaksin - while I do not like him I think there are a lot worse in Thailand and who have never faced justice and never will.

such as?

[Prakanong]

BTW: I agree with you regarding Thaksin - while I do not like him I think there are a lot worse in Thailand and who have never faced justice and never will.

such as?

Dead or alive?

Kitticachkorn (sp) for one

What about others behind the 92 Democracy massacre?

Thaksin was a pussy compared to some of the previous Thai leaders - thats why Bush baby's speech in Bangkok last week was laughed at in Asia - Slagging off lack of freedoms in China while in Thailand a country the USA supported through its dictatorships for its own ends.

Some farang really need a sense of perspective on Thailand - arguing things here is with one hand tied behind our backs - can not say half what I say to Thai's down here in Singapore and what they say too.

[sriracha john]

BTW: I agree with you regarding Thaksin - while I do not like him I think there are a lot worse in Thailand and who have never faced justice and never will.

such as?

Dead or alive?

Kitticachkorn (sp) for one

What about others behind the 92 Democracy massacre?

Thaksin was a pussy compared to some of the previous Thai leaders - thats why Bush baby's speech in Bangkok last week was laughed at in Asia - Slagging off lack of freedoms in China while in Thailand a country the USA supported through its dictatorships for its own ends.

Some farang really need a sense of perspective on Thailand - arguing things here is with one hand tied behind our backs - can not say half what I say to Thai's down here in Singapore and what they say too.

Well, I had presumed you implied living, unless you propose digging their ashes up and urinating on them as some of form of making them pay for their crimes... eg. Kittikachorn is dead.

Was Thaksin the first bad leader? No, of course not... but the policies he established, be it the Drug Wars (plural) or the escalation of Southern violence, they both out-distance the numbers involved by his predecessors. Coupled with what Auditor-General Jaruwan characterized as "unprecedented" corruption, and the country well into what he himself described as a 20 year reign and you have the makings of the title, "Worst PM"...

[Prakanong]

"Was Thaksin the first bad leader? No, of course not... but the policies he established, be it the Drug Wars (plural) or the escalation of Southern violence, they both out-distance the numbers involved by his predecessors. Coupled with what Auditor-General Jaruwan characterized as "unprecedented" corruption, and the country well into what he himself described as a 20 year reign and you have the makings of the title, "Worst PM"..."

He may well be the worst but as of yet I am yet to be convinced that he is the worst ever in a country known for its venal evil politicians - I may well change my mind in the future but currently we will have to agree to disagree.

My own personal view see's the likes of Sanan, Chalerm and Chavalit as worse than a Thaksin but that is my opinion only.

As for the drugs war's - another area where we have one arm tied behond our backs in discussing it on a forum but it can not all be put at Thaksins door - it wouls have been tacitly approved at all levels of the Thai elite shall we say. Drug war's are nothing new in Thailand and the military and others have been involved for years - was Bangkok Bank not built on the back of it according to books such as Seagroves?

Thaksin is not out of the ordinary in Thailand - just another in a long list - at least he was elected and not the result of military dictatorships who ran the country like a middle ages feifdom. If Thaksin was to stand for election today with anybody in the country standing we know there is only one man who would beat him in a head to head contest

Edited August 13, 2008 by Prakanong

[steffi]

I'm sure applying for Political Asylum helps Thaksin avoid extradiction so even if he did have a UK passport he'd want to do that anyway.

I'd never heard thew one about Thaksin and a British passport until reading this thread. I think that it is highly unlikely, given that Thaksin has not resided in the UK for long enough, and with all the political conotations, I would find it hard to believe that he would have just been issued one. The fact that he is applying for "Political Asylum" suggests clearly that he doesn't have such a passport, although he may want one.

[Prakanong]

"I'm sure applying for Political Asylum helps Thaksin avoid extradiction so even if he did have a UK passport he'd want to do that anyway."

What Mr Toad is sying (If I have this correctly) is that he could not apply for political asylum if he already had a British passport.

He could however fight the extradition on the grounds of not getting a fair trial for political motives or whatever.

Its a bit of a moot point anyway as I would bet a pound to a penny he does not yet have a British passport - apart from he has not been there long enough iof he had done it during his exile first time around it wouild have been used by politiacl opponents toshow he was abandoning Thailand

[younghusband]

"Was Thaksin the first bad leader? No, of course not... but the policies he established, be it the Drug Wars (plural) or the escalation of Southern violence, they both out-distance the numbers involved by his predecessors. Coupled with what Auditor-General Jaruwan characterized as "unprecedented" corruption, and the country well into what he himself described as a 20 year reign and you have the makings of the title, "Worst PM"..."

He may well be the worst but as of yet I am yet to be convinced that he is the worst ever in a country known for its venal evil politicians - I may well change my mind in the future but currently we will have to agree to disagree.

My own personal view see's the likes of Sanan, Chalerm and Chavalit as worse than a Thaksin but that is my opinion only.

As for the drugs war's - another area where we have one arm tied behond our backs in discussing it on a forum but it can not all be put at Thaksins door - it wouls have been tacitly approved at all levels of the Thai elite shall we say. Drug war's are nothing new in Thailand and the military and others have been involved for years - was Bangkok Bank not built on the back of it according to books such as Seagroves?

Thaksin is not out of the ordinary in Thailand - just another in a long list - at least he was elected and not the result of military dictatorships who ran the country like a middle ages feifdom. If Thaksin was to stand for election today with anybody in the country standing we know there is only one man who would beat him in a head to head contest

No he certainly wasn't the worst leader and in some ways despite his very real flaws was one of the best.Mass murderers like Suchinda are still part of Bangkok society with their relatives' funeral rites attended by the highest in the land.The hypocrisy of the ruling elite and their PAD hirelings is sickening.To quote Thtinan Pongsudhirak in today's Bangkok Post,

"Mr Thaksin's economic and bureaucratic reforms, income redistribution schemes and policy innovations that boosted Thailand's competitivenes in the global economy should be retained as much as the corruption, cronyism and abuses of power should be dealt with." Incidentally on this point the overwhelming evidence is that Thaksin's policies benefited the rural Thai majority though this proposition in particular sets those who hate him foaming and ranting.But the evidence is incontrovertible

I fully agree that the drugs war and the abuses in the South are Thaksin's greatest crimes.The fact that they have not been charged against him is precisely because of the strong support they had in elite circles.One just wonders what a quick witted set of British QCs will make of all this, though my hunch is it won't end up in the UK courts.Does anyone really think that Thaksin doesn't have the knowledge that would bring the elite into disrepute?

[steffi]

Where's the picture of the family out shopping down the streets of Guildford?

It will be more interesting to know the verdict of his next court case....... his lawyer is going to enter a 'no-show' kinda court proceeding?

Edited August 13, 2008 by steffi

[Heng]

Thaksin has about two billions dollars of his assets frozen - which are now presumably lost -

If anything, the majority of his assets that were "frozen" were his land assets. And even then I doubt they'll ever be able to account for land assets that aren't in his or immediate family's name. As for cash assets, IMO it's wishful thinking that a good portion was frozen.

[Prakanong]

Thaksin has about two billions dollars of his assets frozen - which are now presumably lost -

If anything, the majority of his assets that were "frozen" were his land assets. And even then I doubt they'll ever be able to account for land assets that aren't in his or immediate family's name. As for cash assets, IMO it's wishful thinking that a good portion was frozen.

I am with you on that one - even if he did have a lot of assets in cash in Thai bank accounts he would have moved them straight after the coup - just how long did it take them to freeze his assets?

Did Temasek et al pay the money to Thai bank accounts even - maybe its all sitting nicely in DBS which they own a lot of as well.

[cloudhopper]

Thai FM considers revoking Thaksin's diplomatic passport

The ministry of foreign affairs has not received information regarding the matter from the court or the prosecutor, he said, adding that ministry officials would need also to review regulations regarding the revocation of diplomatic passports.

Maybe this will never happen, but I would think that even diplomatic passports have an expiration date.

[Prakanong]

Thai FM considers revoking Thaksin's diplomatic passport

The ministry of foreign affairs has not received information regarding the matter from the court or the prosecutor, he said, adding that ministry officials would need also to review regulations regarding the revocation of diplomatic passports.

Maybe this will never happen, but I would think that even diplomatic passports have an expiration date.

They do as far as I know - my pal is a Deputy Ambassador (name dropper but I met him first day at Uni and have been pals since) and I know he has renewed his a couple of times.

If they lose it while oversea's they also just get the ordinary in-country replacement like we do - I know someone who lost theirs to a LB pickpocket in Suk soi 4

[taxexile]

"Mr Thaksin's economic and bureaucratic reforms, income redistribution schemes and policy innovations that boosted Thailand's competitivenes in the global economy should be retained as much as the corruption, cronyism and abuses of power should be dealt with."

exactly. every other leader has offered only corruption , cronyism and abuse. thaksin did actually implement good policy. its easy for westerners to come here and try to judge this country by our standards , but that no better than the british victorian colonists maintaining that their remit was to educate the uncivilised.

as another poster said , if thaksin stood for election again , he would win...... and the country would be better off for it.

yes , he lined his pockets , but he improved things for a large section of the population too.

clean politicians are ineffectual here , they cant do anything. in a country like this you need a leader who is not afraid to get his hands dirty in order to push policy through.

[steffi]

I'm just curious but weren't his children essentially guilty of tax evasion too? And surely if the Thais were serious they could extend the charges to them and issue arrest warrants for them also? It's my understanding that they are free to come and go from Thailand as they please.

"Mr Thaksin's economic and bureaucratic reforms, income redistribution schemes and policy innovations that boosted Thailand's competitivenes in the global economy should be retained as much as the corruption, cronyism and abuses of power should be dealt with."

exactly. every other leader has offered only corruption , cronyism and abuse. thaksin did actually implement good policy. its easy for westerners to come here and try to judge this country by our standards , but that no better than the british victorian colonists maintaining that their remit was to educate the uncivilised.

as another poster said , if thaksin stood for election again , he would win...... and the country would be better off for it.

yes , he lined his pockets , but he improved things for a large section of the population too.

clean politicians are ineffectual here , they cant do anything. in a country like this you need a leader who is not afraid to get his hands dirty in order to push policy through.

Edited August 13, 2008 by steffi

[george]

Update:

SHINAWATRAS' ILL-GOTTEN GAINS

Prosecutors refer completed file to attorney-general

BANGKOK: -- Public prosecutors are likely to file a lawsuit next week against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra to seize Bt76 billion of his family's assets.

Waiyawut Lotrakul, deputy attorney-general who chairs a working group on the corruption case prepared by the Assets Examination Committee, said yesterday that public prosecutors had submitted their completed lawsuit to Attorney-General Chaikasem Nitisiri for approval.

He expects the suit to be filed with the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders by next week.

Before completing its term at the end of June, the AEC accused Thaksin of being unusually wealthy and of abusing his authority to help his family's business.

It also ordered Bt69 billion in the Shinawatras' bank accounts to be frozen and sought a lawsuit to seize Bt76 billion in allegedly ill-gotten assets.

The National Counter Corruption Commission (NCCC), which has taken over from the AEC the investigation of graft cases involving Thaksin and his Cabinet members, also insisted that the Bt76 billion be seized, according to Waiyawut.

NCCC spokesman Klanarong Chantik said yesterday that he expected public prosecutors to file a civil case for asset seizure next week.

He said Thaksin would be accused of being unusually wealthy and abusing his authority while in office to benefit his associates and his family's business.

Meanwhile, senior public prosecutor Nanthasak Poonsuk, who is part of the working group on the corruption case involving the Ratchadaphisek land scandal, said yesterday that public prosecutors would begin the process of seeking the extradition of Thaksin and his wife Pojaman when court proceedings in the case are completed on August 22.

In the separate case against Pojaman of tax evasion, Nanthasak said she and the two others convicted - her brother Bhanapot Damapong and her secretary Kanchanapa Honghern - have 30 days to appeal the recent court ruling for their imprisonment.

"If no appeal is filed during the 30-day period, this case is considered completed, and the next process is seeking the extradition of the fugitive convicts," the prosecutor said. He added that all three appeared to have left the country.

In a related development, Criminal Court secretary Naruch Imsuksri said he would discuss with the judges in the tax-evasion case to determine whether Pojaman's bond imposed for her temporary release should be seized now that she has jumped bail in the Ratchadaphisek graft case.

The Criminal Court earlier sentenced Pojaman to three years in jail for tax evasion in the transfer of her shares to her brother Bhanapot with the help of her secretary Kanchanapa. Bhanapot received three years in jail and Kanchanapa two years.

The three were released on bail of Bt5 million each.

Naruch said yesterday that the judges would summon Pojaman and if she failed to show up, her bail money would be seized.

The court might also refuse to grant her temporary release, which would cause her to be kept in detention during the remaining court proceedings.

-- The Nation 2008-08-13

[Shah Jahan]

It was trading a Thai temple for a Casino that broke the camels back this time. That was against the rules of the game.

Just like selling a national asset to singapore got him booted in the first place.

should have learned.

National asset to Singapore - so we want all Thai national assets to be nationalised - I thought it was a capitalist country - it was his company after all.

Do you believe this type of company in your own country should not be sold to foreigners?

As a Brit I could not give a flying f through a rolling donut who owns Vodafone, O2 et al - why was it so bad for Taksin to sell his own company?

Now I do not agree with Thaksin in many things and he should have paid tax on his gains really but it was his right to sell his company - I think Temasek was foolish to buy it though and its not one of their best assets

you can keep all your rights and laws and logic stay in s'pore wit them m'kay. this is thailand - the land of ancient hindu voodo magic - and the ruling corrupt have a code of ethics that they steal by. That being - that its all ok to pass around amongst yourselves but don't throw it outside the circle.

[george]

Attorney General filing soon to seize Thaksin assets

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's Office of the Attorney General OAG) is confident that within one week it will be able to proceed with the record confiscation of Bt76 billion in assets earlier frozen from the holdings of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his family on charges of having abused his power to make undue personal and family gains.

Deputy Attorney General Waiyawuth Lortrakul, who earlier headed a subcommittee under the now-disbanded Assets Examination Committee (AEC), said the proposed confiscation of the assets of Mr. Thaksin and his family valued at Bt76 billion will be forwarded next week by Attorney General Chaikasem Nitisiri to Supreme Court judges dealing with criminal lawsuits involving persons with political status.

The former premier had recently failed to appear in court and were believed to be seeking political asylum in Britain.

The collected assets of Mr. Thaksin and his family were frozen in 16 bank accounts, including Bt18.1 billion at Bangkok Bank, Bt2.1 billion at the Bank of Ayudhya, Bt39.6 billion at Siam Commercial Bank, Bt1.4 billion at Thanachart Bank, Bt500 million at the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives, Bt15.7 billion at the Government Savings Bank, Bt10 billion at the Islamic Bank of Thailand and Bt2.7 billion at the Securities and Land Depository Centre.

They might become assets of the state in due course if the Supreme Court rule in favour of the confiscation of the foreclosed holdings of the former premier and his family.

-- TNA 2008-08-13

[phutoie2]

Where's the picture of the family out shopping down the streets of Guildford?

It will be more interesting to know the verdict of his next court case....... his lawyer is going to enter a 'no-show' kinda court proceeding?

Better out shopping than sitting in the court room!

[george]

Thaksin's wife bail bond set for forfeiture: arrest warrant follows

BANGKOK: -- Pojaman Shinawatra, wife of Thailand's former prime minister Thaksin, might have the sum of five million baht -- her bail bond in a tax evasion lawsuit -- seized and be issued yet another arrest warrant by the Criminal Court in addition to that already handed out by the Supreme Court.

Criminal Court secretary Narat Imsrisuk said Mrs. Pojaman, who this week failed to appear in court in the Ratchadaphisek land lawsuit alongside her husband, might soon have her five million baht bail seized and

be faced with an additional arrest warrant after posting bail for herself in an appeal at the end of last month.

The Criminal Court at that time passed the unsuspended verdict to sentence Mrs. Pojaman to a three-year prison term on charges of deliberately evading income tax for her stock in Shinawatra Computer and Communication company.

Arrest warrants were issued separately by the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions for Mrs. Pojaman and Mr. Thaksin with their Bt13 million bail already seized after the couple, believed to be seeking political asylum in England, failed to appear in court Monday.

In addition, Bannaphot Damapong, Mrs. Pojaman's stepbrother, and her assistant, Kanchanapha Honghern, both earlier charged in the same tax evasion lawsuit as the ex-premier's wife, would be given similar treatment, the Criminal Court secretary added.

-- TNA 2008-08-13

[phutoie2]

BTW: I agree with you regarding Thaksin - while I do not like him I think there are a lot worse in Thailand and who have never faced justice and never will.

such as?

Well maybe not corrupt politicians, but drivers fleeing the scene of accidents and drunken gun slinging BIB are two that spring to mind as I drink my morning coffee!!

[younghusband]

BTW: I agree with you regarding Thaksin - while I do not like him I think there are a lot worse in Thailand and who have never faced justice and never will.

such as?

Well maybe not corrupt politicians, but drivers fleeing the scene of accidents and drunken gun slinging BIB are two that spring to mind as I drink my morning coffee!!

There are numerous corrupt politicians but they have never faced charges.Anand and Chuan are two clean exceptions but frankly it's hard to think of many others in the top tier.Thaksin made most of his money quite legally albeitin a monopolistic environment but was destroyed by hubris and greed.As for hyper rich Thais (screw the sufficiency economy except for poor villagers) who don't pay tax....well better not go there.