Thaksin and Wife Fail to Board Return Flight

[aazA]

He bought himself some time - it will take months before he is convicted in absentia, if ever. Arrest warrants and extradition requests are not a threat, it's the conviction that might strip him of his Man City investment, and several months of good football might mean lots of interests and potentially profitable sale.

However, if there's any truth in a letter posted in Man City thread, the club's future is very worrysome with mounting wages and installments on last year signings. If the new managers, Hughes, leaves, the club will be very difficult to sell at all, let alone for profit.

Biting your nails in London mansion beats scratching them against Bangkok prison walls, though.

So make them do a visa run to scotland, every 30 days. and after the 90 days Well come on why is the UK Such an easy touch.

[Nick100]

My additional 2 cents worth (now 4 cents) , reading between the lines

- Low Bail amount

- Allowed to Travel

To me its clear the signal is "PLS LEAVE HINT HINT AND DON'T COME BACK".

Just imagine PAD supporters, and angered ( if jailed ) Thaksin supporters at each others necks, would make for extremely turbulent and bloody times says me ! Its very normal for out of favour leaders to go into exile this way.

Agreed absolutely.

If one positive thing comes out of this whole sorry mess, it might be that Ms Pottydam finally finds a hair stylist in the UK who will tempt her away from that horrific thatch she currently calls a hairstyle

Personally I think it's completely expected given his wealth. Exile was always an option and IMHO has been his ultimate end game since the coup. Good riddance.

One wonders what will happen to any cash following possible liquidation of his assets - just a divvy up between the rest of the cronies or might we hope for something positive put back into the community?

However, corrupt though he no doubt was, he probably got more stuff done for this country than any recent PM infrastructure-wise (drug-murders, tak bai, krung seh and dumb closing times accepted)

Man City must be chuffed to bits

[george]

Dr. Thaksin will have no immediate visa problems as he is a heavy investor in UK, IMHO.

What's the current visa rules for big time investors in UK?

Or maybe he's a permanent resident in UK as an investor. That would make things difficult to kick him out.

Hey, you don't want him over there, do you??

[englishoak]

Hey, you don't want him over there, do you??

Err no

[Tony Clifton]

I'm still trying to find a copy of the original fax Thaksin sent to NBT. It was shown briefly on CNN so it must be available somewhere online......but where???

opalhort

Well NBT must have the original somewhere - date stamped - and it's worth a fortune -

The original has probably now disappeared into the hands of one of NBTs executives - a future family heirloom -

Wife says PAD showed tonight that the fax was sent from, well well... Newin's favorite hotel in Bangkok.

They couldn't even be clowns if they wanted to.

To name names, dates, and even the fax number, here's the line from the fax's information slip:

PULLMAN BANGKOK KING POWER FAX NO : 02 6809998 AUG 11 2008

and their hotel website:

"Pullman Bangkok King Power, the city's latest upscale hotel"

http://www.pullmanbangkokkingpower.com/

Unbelievable, he made it a big thing that he had sent it from abroad.

Top top it off, King Power resurfaces.

You couldn't write stuff like that.

[plachon]

Dr. Thaksin will have no immediate visa problems as he is a heavy investor in UK, IMHO.

What's the current visa rules for big time investors in UK?

Or maybe he's a permanent resident in UK as an investor. That would make things difficult to kick him out.

Hey, you don't want him over there, do you??

Nope.

Hey, you ever smelled custard pies laced with dog poo? One helluva deterrant to errant bail-jumper, convicts to stay off one's patch I'd say.

Hint, hint to Weybridge/Knightsbridge and environs residents to keep the riff-raff out.

[DegenFarang]

For crying out loud people, *of course* the UK will grant political asylum. Whatever else he may or may not have done, the man was a democratically elected prime minister ousted by military coup whose family is being dragged through the courts on complicated finance-related charges.

If that doesn't qualify you for political asylum, exactly what is the point of the institution?

k somebody tell him his daughters are free to stay with me until he gets back

[A_Traveller]

Dr. Thaksin will have no immediate visa problems as he is a heavy investor in UK, IMHO.

What's the current visa rules for big time investors in UK?

Or maybe he's a permanent resident in UK as an investor. That would make things difficult to kick him out.

Hey, you don't want him over there, do you??

If one reviews the position for just a 1 million USD investment, a visa, subject to criteria checks, may be issued. By the by the funds do not have to be committed prior to issuance. In brief the 1 million USD must be invested in either unit trusts or private companies and after the first year provided there are no issues {from an investment perspective} the a visa for a further 3 years is issued.

This program allows for spouse and children {though my understanding is that after the children are over 18 other provisions apply but given the MCFC position if the children are also investors they too could apply under this programme} applications.

One rider to the programme is to show that the intention is to make the UK a primary residence {more than 50% of the time} but that is not initially a key focus.

Regards

Edited August 11, 2008 by A_Traveller

[george]

EX-PM ON THE RUN

'Sinatra' becomes a diplomatic hot potato

Speculation about bid for asylum; Former PM claims courts unfair

'Sinatra' becomes a diplomatic hot potato

BANGKOK: -- The move by deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife Pojaman to flee to the UK has raised speculation about whether he can seek political asylum to escape a host of corruption charges.

Thaksin issued a statement yesterday claiming that political motives were behind his decision to live in exile in the UK, where "democracy is more important" than his homeland.

"What happened to me and my family and my close relations resulted from efforts to get rid of me from politics; by assassination attempts; by military coup; by hand-picking my opponents to handle legal charges," he said in his hand written statement.

"These individuals see me as their political enemy. They have no consideration of the judicial system, truth and legal principle. My family and I have been treated unjustly."

Thaksin's claim that he and his family face a political threat may be aimed at helping them "fit" the definition on the status of refugees from the 1951 United Nations convention.

The UK is a signatory to the convention (unlike Thailand) and has a long history of recognising asylum seekers who lodge credible claims that they were forced to leave and are unable to return to their homeland because a well-founded fear of persecution because of political opinion, race, religion or nationality.

People who flee to avoid conviction for corruption or other crimes do not qualify for asylum unless there are serious doubts about the independence of courts in the applicant's homeland, or reasonable fears about their well-being if extradited.

In 2006, 17 out of every 100 people who applied for asylum were recognised as refugees and given asylum, according to the UK Home Office.

If Thaksin really wants political asylum he must make an application in person as soon as possible after arriving in the UK.

"If you delay your application for asylum, it may affect your ability to prove your reasons for it," said the UK Home Office guideline.

Applications for asylum can be made at the port of entry or in the case of Thaksin, who has a home near London, he can apply at units that screen asylum seekers in either Croydon (south of London) or in Liverpool.

The asylum process takes about 30 days from the lodging of an application to a final decision.

If Thaksin applied and was granted asylum, his family would obtain legal protection and the right to live and work in the UK for an initial period of five years. His "case owner" would help him and his family build new lives in the country by giving documents and any information they need.

If he applied for but was denied asylum, Thaksin and his family would have the right to appeal and remain in the UK temporarily on humanitarian grounds. In that case, they may be required to comply with certain demands and could be detained if they refused to undertake them.

However, Foreign Ministry spokesman Tharit Charungvat said Thaksin did not need to seek political asylum because he and his family could stay in the UK for some period as an investor or under some other status.

He said the ministry had no information on whether Thaksin would seek asylum.

Meanwhile, legal experts said Thaksin could be extradited back if the Thai government sought his return under the 1911 Siam-Great Britain extradition treaty.

But they said using the treaty may not be an easy way to extradite him as Thai authorities may have to prove he could be prosecuted on similar charges in the UK.

The 1911 treaty allows only 31 legal charges as a basis for extradition. And many matters, such abuse of power related to the purchase of state land by his wife, which is currently being heard by the Supreme Court, are not listed in the treaty or UK laws.

Thai authorities would also have to prove the charges were not political and the UK courts would have full power to refuse extradition for any reason they saw fit.

-- The Nation 2008-08-12

[sriracha john]

Is the original handwritten fax Thaksin sent to NBT TV available online somewhere?

opalhort

I'm still trying to find a copy of the original fax Thaksin sent to NBT. It was shown briefly on CNN so it must be available somewhere online......but where???

opalhort

I've always respected your determination and thusly it is rewarded....

a bigger blow-up of it...

http://www.naewna.com/news.asp?ID=117669

In keeping with the same paper theme... that document was responded to by this document......

The Arrest Warrant issued to Thaksin and Pokemon....

[sriracha john]

Dr. Thaksin will have no immediate visa problems as he is a heavy investor in UK, IMHO.

What's the current visa rules for big time investors in UK?

Or maybe he's a permanent resident in UK as an investor. That would make things difficult to kick him out.

Hey, you don't want him over there, do you??

No, we want him over here...

Edited August 11, 2008 by sriracha john

[toret]

If they do.

Will Thailand close the embassy/consulates in GB?

At least I know where to go if I am ever convicted of some major shit. UK, land of the freed on bail

But seriously, what is their status in the UK? Asylum seekers that go back to the places they claimed were dangerous to them, usually lose their asylum status...

[sriracha john]

If Thaksin really wants political asylum he must make an application in person as soon as possible after arriving in the UK.

"If you delay your application for asylum, it may affect your ability to prove your reasons for it," said the UK Home Office guideline.

In other words, he's 692 days late from 19-09-06.

[dancingfool]

i am very naive when it comes to asian politics, probably because i shy away from it, knowing i will never know head from tail but how come a convicted felon can come back twice into his own country, regain his position, then be re-convicted, and then go to back in exile which very properly said by a colleague can by legal definition not be one by claiming a refugee status from a country he was the prime minister five minutes ago and which country is at peace anyway...england should send him to haiti with the natives then he will have a taste of what its like...wow...its a great movie script...tarantino should do a movie about this guy, hes a real piece of work, the movie would probably do better than the last james bond!!!!

Peace and Prosperity in Thailand.

[Ozpharlap]

For crying out loud people, *of course* the UK will grant political asylum. Whatever else he may or may not have done, the man was a democratically elected prime minister ousted by military coup whose family is being dragged through the courts on complicated finance-related charges.

If that doesn't qualify you for political asylum, exactly what is the point of the institution?

Well said cocpops, they are genuine reasons to allow him an entry and stay visa. Also, the fact he owns a major football club and if he converts himself to an English citizenship then the club will revert back into English hands. For God sake, how long did Pinococh stay in England - Thaksin, as far as we know has not killed anyone or had them rubbed out.

[plachon]

For crying out loud people, *of course* the UK will grant political asylum. Whatever else he may or may not have done, the man was a democratically elected prime minister ousted by military coup whose family is being dragged through the courts on complicated finance-related charges.

If that doesn't qualify you for political asylum, exactly what is the point of the institution?

Well said cocpops, they are genuine reasons to allow him an entry and stay visa. Also, the fact he owns a major football club and if he converts himself to an English citizenship then the club will revert back into English hands. For God sake, how long did Pinococh stay in England - Thaksin, as far as we know has not killed anyone or had them rubbed out.

You clearly are not reading very deep into the history of this man. I would say nearly 3,000 people killed by police hit squads in the "War against Drugs", many innocents down South and the odd human right's lawyer could be described as "rubbed out" as a result of Thaksin's indirect orders and policies should be counted as crimes to almost rival anything Pinochet did. Not that he has been charged with these misdemeanors (yet..........).

Pinochet didn't stay in England very long from what I recall, as he was such a political hot potato and thought being buddies with Maggie Thatcher was enough to swing it. Blair and Blunkett couldn't wait to get rid of him, as Spain tried to extradite him for crimes against humanity. Maybe some of Thaksin's victims families could join together to make a request to the British government to bring him to trial in UK for similar crimes against humanity, as the Thai govt is never going to move on that score.

Any human rights lawyers reading?

[Prakanong]

My additional 2 cents worth (now 4 cents) , reading between the lines

- Low Bail amount

- Allowed to Travel

To me its clear the signal is "PLS LEAVE HINT HINT AND DON'T COME BACK".

Just imagine PAD supporters, and angered ( if jailed ) Thaksin supporters at each others necks, would make for extremely turbulent and bloody times says me ! Its very normal for out of favour leaders to go into exile this way.

This exact scenario was hinted at by Thai political commentators in the press in recent weeks (outside Thailand only I wonder - i saw it in the Straits Times)

[Prakanong]

Dr. Thaksin will have no immediate visa problems as he is a heavy investor in UK, IMHO.

What's the current visa rules for big time investors in UK?

Or maybe he's a permanent resident in UK as an investor. That would make things difficult to kick him out.

Hey, you don't want him over there, do you??

I forgot the figure but an investor of Thaksins size gets the right to stay - the UK has a lot of foreign billionaires because of the favourable tax regime on funds earned abroad.

Think Al Fayed et al

[Joints]

Thaksin, as far as we know has not killed anyone or had them rubbed out.

Then you do not know very far because you seem to be the only one who doesn´t know.

[Prakanong]

Dr. Thaksin will have no immediate visa problems as he is a heavy investor in UK, IMHO.

What's the current visa rules for big time investors in UK?

Or maybe he's a permanent resident in UK as an investor. That would make things difficult to kick him out.

Hey, you don't want him over there, do you??

Nope.

Hey, you ever smelled custard pies laced with dog poo? One helluva deterrant to errant bail-jumper, convicts to stay off one's patch I'd say.

Hint, hint to Weybridge/Knightsbridge and environs residents to keep the riff-raff out.

There are a lot of bigger more evil criminal in the UK who have actually harmed the UK or their victims are in the UK - are you advocating everyone take up the cause against them too?

I am sure you know of or who are the local criminals in your area - I suggest you go out and pelt them with dog <deleted> if you are so publically minded.

The fact is 99.9% of the British public will not give a shit about Thaksin being there - I only give .5% due to the football side. We have much more corrupt and violent people on our soil Thaksin is hardly worth bothering with. Its only a few newbies to Thailand who are getting their collective knickers in a twist. Were they this vociferous over Pinochet or others?

[Prakanong]

For crying out loud people, *of course* the UK will grant political asylum. Whatever else he may or may not have done, the man was a democratically elected prime minister ousted by military coup whose family is being dragged through the courts on complicated finance-related charges.

If that doesn't qualify you for political asylum, exactly what is the point of the institution?

Well said cocpops, they are genuine reasons to allow him an entry and stay visa. Also, the fact he owns a major football club and if he converts himself to an English citizenship then the club will revert back into English hands. For God sake, how long did Pinococh stay in England - Thaksin, as far as we know has not killed anyone or had them rubbed out.

You clearly are not reading very deep into the history of this man. I would say nearly 3,000 people killed by police hit squads in the "War against Drugs", many innocents down South and the odd human right's lawyer could be described as "rubbed out" as a result of Thaksin's indirect orders and policies should be counted as crimes to almost rival anything Pinochet did. Not that he has been charged with these misdemeanors (yet..........).

Pinochet didn't stay in England very long from what I recall, as he was such a political hot potato and thought being buddies with Maggie Thatcher was enough to swing it. Blair and Blunkett couldn't wait to get rid of him, as Spain tried to extradite him for crimes against humanity. Maybe some of Thaksin's victims families could join together to make a request to the British government to bring him to trial in UK for similar crimes against humanity, as the Thai govt is never going to move on that score.

Any human rights lawyers reading?

Yes over 3000 extra judixial deaths in the drugs war was a human right abuse - by all means open it up but be careful of what you wish for and the whole can of worms it would open and how high it would go.

While you are on bring the guilty of 73, 76 and 92 to the Hague too - see where that leads and which families in Thailand get outed

[rayw]

Yep and now I am very saddened to say I am for the first time ashamed to be British if they do allow a now definite criminal (yes it is a criminal offence in the extreme to jump bail) to stay safely in exile in the UK. IT IS DISGUSTING IN THE EXTREME. I WILL, AND I HOPE OTHER BRITS HERE WILL, WRITE TO THE BRITISH EMBASSY STRONGLY OBJECTING TO BRITAINS INTERNTAIONAL CRIMINAL ACT IN HARBOURING TAKSIN AND HIS WIFE.

I won't be and I couldn't give a smeg to be honest. Let him in, they let in thousands of other undesirables everyday, and besides, I live here so why should I care. If I were living and paying taxes there, it would possibly be different. I can see where you're coming from if you live in the UK, but if, as I suspect, you live in Muang Thai, then where's your angle? Chill and have a beer

My angle is obvious. I am a Brit living here in LOS but still paying tax in the UK on my pension and am one of those old school guys who just happens to believe in decency and honesty. Britain, IF they allow him and his already found guilty wife to stay there, will then be a criminal country for harbouring escaped convicts and bail jumpers. No question of those crimes and still waiting to bring Toxin's alleged crimes to proper justice too. How would Britain react if Thailand harboured a wanted and found guilty criminal of theirs. Jeez they go on about world despot Governments who do not uphold decent law yet hypocritically seem to be spitting in the face of Thailand when they want their escape convicts and bail breakers back.

Sure I think there is a hidden agenda here in that they seemed to be so stupid as to even grant bail and to travel abroad too.

Thanks to whoever for the Home Office link I think we should all bombard them with e-mailed protests demanding justifications for even allowing him in let alone to stay there too.

[dee123]

...Thaksin has British passport,right?.....anyway even if he were extradicted back to LOS he has too much power and moneytry clout to spend any long prison sentance in a crowded "monkey house"......the place is crawling with misdemeanors and corrupt deals of past regeims.....you scratch mine I'LL scratch yours ,....will be the end result.....and nothing will change until Thailand get free press....

Edited August 11, 2008 by dee123

[Prakanong]

Yep and now I am very saddened to say I am for the first time ashamed to be British if they do allow a now definite criminal (yes it is a criminal offence in the extreme to jump bail) to stay safely in exile in the UK. IT IS DISGUSTING IN THE EXTREME. I WILL, AND I HOPE OTHER BRITS HERE WILL, WRITE TO THE BRITISH EMBASSY STRONGLY OBJECTING TO BRITAINS INTERNTAIONAL CRIMINAL ACT IN HARBOURING TAKSIN AND HIS WIFE.

I won't be and I couldn't give a smeg to be honest. Let him in, they let in thousands of other undesirables everyday, and besides, I live here so why should I care. If I were living and paying taxes there, it would possibly be different. I can see where you're coming from if you live in the UK, but if, as I suspect, you live in Muang Thai, then where's your angle? Chill and have a beer

My angle is obvious. I am a Brit living here in LOS but still paying tax in the UK on my pension and am one of those old school guys who just happens to believe in decency and honesty. Britain, IF they allow him and his already found guilty wife to stay there, will then be a criminal country for harbouring escaped convicts and bail jumpers. No question of those crimes and still waiting to bring Toxin's alleged crimes to proper justice too. How would Britain react if Thailand harboured a wanted and found guilty criminal of theirs. Jeez they go on about world despot Governments who do not uphold decent law yet hypocritically seem to be spitting in the face of Thailand when they want their escape convicts and bail breakers back.

Sure I think there is a hidden agenda here in that they seemed to be so stupid as to even grant bail and to travel abroad too.

Thanks to whoever for the Home Office link I think we should all bombard them with e-mailed protests demanding justifications for even allowing him in let alone to stay there too.

If you really want to push it to its logical conclusion then you are correct - the UK should extradite him if Thaksin can not prove in the extradition proceedings the charges etc are not political in nature and that he would not get a fair trial.

However, is it not best for Thailand and less divisive to just let him sit in exile and out of Thai politics (I am assuming he has given up on the 3 billion frozen and will not be funding anything soon as he conserves his hundreds of million $ outside of Thailand - maybe a big assumption.)

The UK has much worse than him in its midst, he will be seen as a white collar criminal in the UK by the majority. We have supported and given succour to much worse than him if they were "ours". Just look at the likes of the Proddies and IRA we let out of jail for political ends and a quiet life?

[Prakanong]

...Thaksin has British passport,right?.....anyway even if he were extradicted back to LOS he has too much power and moneytry clout to spend any long prison sentance in a crowded "monkey house"......the place is crawling with misdemeanors and corrupt deals of past regeims.....you scratch mine I'LL scratch yours ,....will be the end result

Are you sure he has a British passport?

I think it takes longer than he has had to get one - 5 years? - anyone?

[dee123]

...yes I think he has had a british passport for some time,...dual/multi nationality...

Edited August 11, 2008 by dee123

[dee123]

...actually I knew something was happening 24+ hours ago when Channel5 TV in UK mentioned "rumours" about Thaksin but for some strange reason the post was moved to the football section and when I complained that it was politic related the thread was closed!...Unbelievable !!

[konangrit]

Britain doesn't have a law forbidding extradition of British Citizens, so even if Thaksin was a British Citizen (which I'm pretty sure he isn't) this wouldn't prevent him from being extradited. Britain extradites it's own citizens all the time.

[jumnien]

As Thailand is a major center for housing and caring for Great Britain's criminal population, it is only fitting and fair that England should likewise provide housing and care for Dr. Shinawatra.

[HydeParke]

Anyone who thought they would return is living in the dark ages. As for that idiot Pracha, he is just an empty headed puppet.....a complete joke! What honour you twit!!! They gave that up long ago when they fleesed the country. The Thai courts must be in on it too; why only a ฿5,000,000 bail bond? It should have been for the full amount of the scam. I have TS's London address if anyone would like to say "hi". Living here gets worse everyday, but I have 4 kids in school and and two homes.......... can't leave, dam_n it!!! Re-write the Constitution...........why!!! Because they can form it to their present needs, that's why.............Democracy? Are you nuts. The USA has the best Constitution in the world and it has lasted for over 200 years with NO re-write........through 'thick and thin' times; if you need change, copy it.