Thailand's Internet Law Begins Aug. 23 Requires User Tracking

[cophen]

if you've got nothing to hide whats the problem

That is what apologists of totalitarianism always say.

Spot on!

[sriracha john]

Been discussed at

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-s-I...ug-t206147.html

Yes thank you.

Not a very good conversation though, kind of went off track don't you think.

Nobody really takes a stab at WHY?

I mean what are they hoping to achieve - is this anti-terrorist? kiddy fiddlers? porn rings? scammers? or just anti farangs using internet cafes.

Bizarre.

*Mods, can we please merge this thread into the original? Thank you.*

One thing that cannot be overlooked is that this is not a case of "farang need to show ID". It is for EVERYONE, which makes the thread title very misleading.

As to why, the ICT ministry has suggested this as a method to control lese majeste, pornography, terrorism, or just about any other reason THEY deem fit.

btw, can the OP please provide a source for the news in the OP.

Edited August 18, 2008 by sriracha john

[Tywais]

*Mods, can we please merge this thread into the original? Thank you.*

Done.

[cclub75]

Well we've got the same law in the EU, they call it the telecom data retention law and all connection data must be saved for 6 months starting from 2009. There was a lot of protest against that law of course.

Wrong.

The thai law has a much broader scale...

A company that has a computer network and shares an internet access for its employees, is required to store Internet traffic datas (in and out) for 90 days.

The simple fact to share an Internet access for other people makes you a "service provider". At least, this is the interpretation from the ICT Ministry.

Thailand is the only country in the world to demand such thing.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/150808_Business...g2008_biz51.php

Edited August 18, 2008 by cclub75

[kmart]

It's just another silly edict from some glass tower in Bangkok. The country has neither the will nor the facilities (or infrastructure) to enact this law to any degree of effectiveness. When someone gets all motorcyclists wearing helmets, and with licenses and insurance, i might start believing that "cyber-crime" is any sort of issue here.

[toptuan]

Last week in Bangkok, I had to use my passport and/or passport number to logon to several internet shop computers, or onto several wifi connections. Starting to phase in already? Also, this is common practice in Vietnam and Laos. Apparently, Thailand is taking some cues from its more repressive neighbors.

[jitagon]

if you've got nothing to hide whats the problem

Oh that old saw. So you don't mind people coming into your home say, and having a poke around? After all, if you have nothing to hide ...

[jitagon]

The following I cut and pasted from a well known weekly column published every Sunday:

And Immigration is not the only government department cracking down on things. In this ever tightening world where authorities want you to leave a trace everywhere you go and of everything you do, visitors to Thailand might like to know that from 23rd of this month they will need to show their passport or other ID if they wish to access the net at an internet cafe. Not only that, but a record will be kept of every website visited. A new cyber law is being introduced, and as well as all internet cafes, every company and organisation, including banks and government offices, must retain records of every user's online activities for 90 days. Exactly what the boys in tight brown uniforms will make of the pile of paperwork this creates I have no idea.

Hope it's not true.

Come to think of it what a laugh if it is true.

Just think of the paperwork.

What one wonders is the motive ?

Interesting....

Let's see: 14,4 million tourists to Thailand/year.

Let's assume that just 10 or 20% use internet once in a while during their holidays. Thats 1,44 Million to 2,88 Million internet visits.

If everyone check their mail just 3 times per holiday that's between 4,32 and 8,64 millions times. Assuming they also visit 3 different websites, like banks, travel agent or other that's between 12,96 and 25,92 million visits.

Now, WHO is going thru all these visits and check them, apart from the fact if they (the webpolice) can read the dozens of languages those millions of websites are written in.....?

All in all, my view:

BULL... from a government which is totally paranoid and becoming to look like a police state; a banana-republic runned country.

Amazing Thailand: the land with the Million faces; bring us your money but beware we'll watch you 24 hours...

LaoPo

Exactly. Imagine if you will, you are on your hols and just want to pop into an internet shop to wing one off to your mates back home. What kind of signal, along with the random urine testing, early closing, traffic laws only applying to whites, does the added paranoia of having to take along your passport, really. Where do they think this is, post cold war Russia?

I agree. This absolute total rubbish. Whoever made this up not understand when April Fools is, and it ain't August.

[ignis]

This notice was on all 3 PC's at 'True' yesterday when i was waiting to pay the bills

1st was in Thai then this in English

A new cyber law is being introduced from 23rd of this month.

We will need to Log your passport or other ID if you wish to access

the net also a record will be kept of every website visited.

Edited August 18, 2008 by ignis

[sriracha john]

Thailand is the only country in the world to demand such thing.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/150808_Business...g2008_biz51.php

Thailand...the HUB of encroachment on civil liberties.

[sriracha john]

This notice was on all 3 PC's at 'True' yesterday when i was waiting to pay the bills

1st was in Thai then this in English

A new cyber law is being introduced from 23rd of this month.

We will need to Log your passport or other ID if you wish to access

the net also a record will be kept of every website visited.

Thai version of...

Nineteen Eighty-Four

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087803/

[mommysboy]

btw, can the OP please provide a source for the news in the OP.

The Stickman site. There was a heavy hint. Been on the grog?

You mean the law applies to EVERYONE. What a laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sriracha john]

btw, can the OP please provide a source for the news in the OP.

The Stickman site. There was a heavy hint. Been on the grog?

You mean the law applies to EVERYONE. What a laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh ok, the source was that bastion of fine news journalism, stickman.

When I said everyone, I was just referring to the principle of what the law states, not that I agreed with it or that I even thought it reflected reality. I simply wanted to correct the erroneous implication that the law only was being extended to farang.

I do thank you for acknowledging the source of your duplicate OP, however, and hope you'll include that, without prompting, with any future OP's.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I have to agree that this law is absolutely some of the most stupid I have heard in a long time. I am fairly sure what they request are connection logs, which every decent router can provide easily. It is not a big deal to store these. [...] But once they got the internal log from a company where all the clients are assigned IPs from the DHCP server what are they going to do? The leaches will most likely have expired or been overwritten, so all they can conclude is that some ip xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx established this connection at a specific date/time, but that is all.

Every really decent router also stores the MAC address of the network card. Those don't change. Or alternatively, an internet cafe could decide to not use DHCP anymore and assign every station a fixed IP.

Elsewhere someone said that GPRS can't be tracked: I don't see why not, unless you use it on a pre-paid cell phone without having registered with your actual name/address. But even then it can be tracked to the phone, and your mobile phone operator knows where that one is located pretty accurately.

[mommysboy]

I do thank you for acknowledging the source of your duplicate OP, however, and hope you'll include that, without prompting, with any future OP's.

As I stated SJ, there was rather a heavy hint. But would like to apologise for duplicating the posting - pure error.

Yes, certainly I inferred from the Stick article that it was about visitors to Thailand.

My friend at the internet shop hasn't got a clue about how to collect and store the info anyway.

My guess is we're not getting the whole picture here, must be something pretty heavy going down from some internet shops, perhaps co-ordinated attacks on govt. systems. Is this scenario possible or shoud I lay off True movies channel?

[deeveloper]

This notice was on all 3 PC's at 'True' yesterday when i was waiting to pay the bills

1st was in Thai then this in English

A new cyber law is being introduced from 23rd of this month.

We will need to Log your passport or other ID if you wish to access

the net also a record will be kept of every website visited.

Thai version of...

Nineteen Eighty-Four

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087803/

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5464625623984168940

[simon43]

OK - for all hotel/guesthouse owners, I have a solution Although I'm the boss of a hotel in Phuket, my previous life was as a software/telecoms consultant.

I have written a FREE application that will automatically log all website visits and store them with a date/time-stamp. This application is suitable for hotels because it does not require the user to enter their name/ID card number.

I am also just completing a similar solution for internet cafes which will log the user's name/id card number (or whatever details they enter - remember that no validation is done on this data!). This will also be a free application!

My solution works with Windows computers running Internet Explorer or Mozilla/Firefox browsers.

Just PM me if you want the link to download this application.

Cheers

Simon

[sriracha john]

OK - for all hotel/guesthouse owners, I have a solution Although I'm the boss of a hotel in Phuket, my previous life was as a software/telecoms consultant.

I have written a FREE application that will automatically log all website visits and store them with a date/time-stamp. This application is suitable for hotels because it does not require the user to enter their name/ID card number.

I am also just completing a similar solution for internet cafes which will log the user's name/id card number (or whatever details they enter - remember that no validation is done on this data!). This will also be a free application!

I'm wondering if the ICT Ministry will require certification of any software that is being used to comply with their directives.

Additionally, now that the law has come into effect, enforcement levels will be interesting to watch for.

[CCCP]

OK - for all hotel/guesthouse owners, I have a solution Although I'm the boss of a hotel in Phuket, my previous life was as a software/telecoms consultant.

I have written a FREE application that will automatically log all website visits and store them with a date/time-stamp. This application is suitable for hotels because it does not require the user to enter their name/ID card number.

I am also just completing a similar solution for internet cafes which will log the user's name/id card number (or whatever details they enter - remember that no validation is done on this data!). This will also be a free application!

My solution works with Windows computers running Internet Explorer or Mozilla/Firefox browsers.

Just PM me if you want the link to download this application.

Cheers

Simon

No thanks!

This just shows the state of affiars when governments are expecting neighbours to spy on neighbours, as it now is in the UK. I'm all for catching and hanging child porners by their nuts, but there is enough internet bobbies out there to do the job they are paid for.

Edited August 24, 2008 by CCCP

[grantbkk]

Everybody should relax and let this die a natural death. It is a bit scary for the internet cafes if the police barge in demanding logs and user names. It's the 24th and I haven't noticed any change in the way my computer operates from home. The current government will move on and eventually be replaced where priorities will change.

For example, prostitution is illegal in Thailand. I've heard from some of my friends that it is a thriving business here and some of the operations are patronized, owned and operated by member of the various groups that are sworn to uphold the law. I think the finest example of recent meaningless legislation is the adultery laws meant to eliminate the practice of the rich having minor wives. There is a pretty cool exemption if you practice the Muslim religion. I think you can have up to four wives.

Think about the 3 or 4 policemen staring at the 60 foot high stack of paper from the first week of logs. Maybe they should require the info on CD's or something.

[simon43]

OK, I agree totally that this law is unworkable! Even if the software requires the user to enter their name and passport number, this data is not validated and is therefore worthless! you can just type in 'Mickey Mouse'.

But that is not the point. If the BIB know that they can enforce this law by fining any hotel/internet cafe who is not logging data, then they will be straight down to their local hotels/internet cafes to request to view logfiles. If no logfiles then potentially a big fine!!

So, I wrote this software simply to keep the BIB happy That is the only purpose that it serves.

Rememebr the problems that many bars have when they don't have music licences? The 'mafia' music licence guys confiscate all the equipment and levy a 50,000 baht fine....

You should forget your principles about Big Brother, 1984, freedom of access etc etc etc. They don't apply in Thailand. But hard-hitting fines by opportunistic BIB will get the message home to you!!

Simon

[12DrinkMore]

Every really decent router also stores the MAC address of the network card.

May get stored temporarily, but won't normally get logged, and the storage capacity on routers is pretty close to zero.

Elsewhere someone said that GPRS can't be tracked: I don't see why not, unless you use it on a pre-paid cell phone without having registered with your actual name/address. But even then it can be tracked to the phone, and your mobile phone operator knows where that one is located pretty accurately.

House to house by the BIBs over a couple of square kilometers looking for a particular GPRS modem about the size of Zippo firelighter? Yep, that will work

[sriracha john]

Everybody should relax and let this die a natural death. It is a bit scary for the internet cafes if the police barge in demanding logs and user names. It's the 24th and I haven't noticed any change in the way my computer operates from home. The current government will move on and eventually be replaced where priorities will change.

For example, prostitution is illegal in Thailand. I've heard from some of my friends that it is a thriving business here

Is the fine for breaking that illegal act a half million baht? That's a whole lot of incentive for them to follow-up on this "logging law", either by actual enforcement or threat for tea money for non-compliance.... and I would expect given the amount of fine possible, that this won't be the same 100 baht tea money for violating the helmet law (OR whatever it is for the prostitution law).

Edited August 24, 2008 by sriracha john

[grantbkk]

Everybody should relax and let this die a natural death. It is a bit scary for the internet cafes if the police barge in demanding logs and user names. It's the 24th and I haven't noticed any change in the way my computer operates from home. The current government will move on and eventually be replaced where priorities will change.

For example, prostitution is illegal in Thailand. I've heard from some of my friends that it is a thriving business here

Is the fine for breaking that illegal act a half million baht? That's a whole lot of incentive for them to follow-up on this "logging law", either by actual enforcement or threat for tea money for non-compliance.... and I would expect given the amount of fine possible, that this won't be the same 100 baht tea money for violating the helmet law (OR whatever it is for the prostitution law).

I understand your point however I only see this as a cash cow for the police in the short term. While it is true this has the potential to go on for years I think after a few internet cafes or hotels get shut down or fined to death the law will be modified, removed and /or ignored. This is the PPP trying to sort out the opposition.

[deeveloper]

if you've got nothing to hide whats the problem

Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.

Short term memory?! Go study your history.

Sometimes people can hate you for no 'just' reason at all.

If you trust a govt. with absolute power now, what stops and checks are in place to prevent those powers from being abused in the future?

Despite whether you are guilty or not, if somebody doesn't like you or your ideas, under complete authoritarian power someone with authority could easily spoof data to frame you with a crime you didn't commit, and no one could dispute the allegations.

--

STOP TERRORISM.

STOP TERRORISING

http://www.infowars.com

http://www.prisonplanet.tv

[NotNew2You]

Sounds like some sort of style-over-substance edict by the MIT to justify their existence...

I think most people are misreading the point of this law. For the most part, the authorities don't really care what sites people are accessing (they do their best to screen out access to those with their "Green Screen of Death"). This law was enacted during the term of the unelected coup installed military regime in order to stifle and/or control political speech and dissent.

What happened is that people opposed to the military coup and its puppet government started posting their views on forums, writing blogs, and creating websites to express and publicize their opinions. Like any authoritarian government, they could tolerate such activities so promulgated this law in an effort to try to create a digital record to track down these people.

It's just you basic stiffle dissent type law that you find in any run-of-the-mill tin-pot dictatorship. Of course, since most Thai "elected" governments don't like dissent any better than the military, it's likely none will have the balls to repeal the law.

[deeveloper]

OK, I agree totally that this law is unworkable! Even if the software requires the user to enter their name and passport number, this data is not validated and is therefore worthless! you can just type in 'Mickey Mouse'.

But that is not the point. If the BIB know that they can enforce this law by fining any hotel/internet cafe who is not logging data, then they will be straight down to their local hotels/internet cafes to request to view logfiles. If no logfiles then potentially a big fine!!

So, I wrote this software simply to keep the BIB happy That is the only purpose that it serves.

Rememebr the problems that many bars have when they don't have music licences? The 'mafia' music licence guys confiscate all the equipment and levy a 50,000 baht fine....

You should forget your principles about Big Brother, 1984, freedom of access etc etc etc. They don't apply in Thailand. But hard-hitting fines by opportunistic BIB will get the message home to you!!

Simon

No Thanks.

Thailand is in debt to the IMF/intl. bankers too.. look up the 'conditionalities' will ya.

You're dreaming if you don't think losing freedoms will affect you.

Sounds like you need to read your history books as well.

STOP TERRORISM.

STOP TERRORISING

http://www.infowars.com

http://www.prisonplanet.tv

[ourmaninbangers]

if you've got nothing to hide whats the problem

Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.

Short term memory?! Go study your history.

Sometimes people can hate you for no 'just' reason at all.

If you trust a govt. with absolute power now, what stops and checks are in place to prevent those powers from being abused in the future?

Despite whether you are guilty or not, if somebody doesn't like you or your ideas, under complete authoritarian power someone with authority could easily spoof data to frame you with a crime you didn't commit, and no one could dispute the allegations.

--

STOP TERRORISM.

STOP TERRORISING

http://www.infowars.com

http://www.prisonplanet.tv

exactly- " if you,ve nothing to hide...." oh my God....please, wise up

they will find something to get you for

[simon43]

Up to you Deeveloper! If you're offering any sort of internet access and don't want to install logging software, then that's your choice. Just don't come moaning when you are asked to cough up a rather large amount of tea-money...

Simon

[bino]

I have written a FREE application that will automatically log all website visits and store them with a date/time-stamp. This application is suitable for hotels because it does not require the user to enter their name/ID card number.

This sounds great Simon, but I don't think it will satisfy the BIB. They will have all of this data already, logged from your ISP. How will you narrow it down if they want to know which guest in your hotel accessed an illegal website? Same same in an office or internet cafe with multiple computers sharing a connection to the 'net. Which employee or cafe customer is the criminal?

I am also just completing a similar solution for internet cafes which will log the user's name/id card number (or whatever details they enter - remember that no validation is done on this data!). This will also be a free application!

Validation would be in the form of the passport / ID copy that is requested.

I am sure there are many solutions already available. I have stayed in enough hotels where I must go to the front desk to get login info for their paid internet service / wifi. I haven't researched it in detail yet, but a search for "hotspot controller" brings lots of hits. I'm sure some of these softwares will offer the necessary logging capability.

A passport copy that is related to the login info that you provide to your guest and in turn is related to a log file seems to be what the BIB will want.

Edited August 24, 2008 by bino