Tax Problem

[choppychugger]

I work in the Oil and gas industry, mainly in Oz, occasionally Singapore and Japan. Not in Thailand.

I am fully aware that if I spend one day over 180 in Thailand then I am classified a resident and the tax implications that go with that.

My problem - My company have recently had issues with their expat workers entering Oz on the wrong visas, we are all now being changed out onto 457 visa non resident.

An extract from my boss:

"/ None Resident 457: This visa assumes you’re are resident and paying tax in another county and paid by a company out with Australia .You can work up to 180 days in Australia and as long a your income is declared in your country of residence you can use that declaration to offset the tax due for your work in Australia. If you cannot show a tax declaration from your country of residence the Australian tax authorities will charge you a flat rate of 29% on your earning while in Australia.

I don't spend long enough in each country to fall under their tax laws, but still I have to pay/declare tax somewhere - is their a way around this?

Help,

Choppy

[Naam]

I work in the Oil and gas industry, mainly in Oz, occasionally Singapore and Japan. Not in Thailand.

I am fully aware that if I spend one day over 180 in Thailand then I am classified a resident and the tax implications that go with that.

My problem - My company have recently had issues with their expat workers entering Oz on the wrong visas, we are all now being changed out onto 457 visa non resident.

An extract from my boss:

"/ None Resident 457: This visa assumes you’re are resident and paying tax in another county and paid by a company out with Australia .You can work up to 180 days in Australia and as long a your income is declared in your country of residence you can use that declaration to offset the tax due for your work in Australia. If you cannot show a tax declaration from your country of residence the Australian tax authorities will charge you a flat rate of 29% on your earning while in Australia.

I don't spend long enough in each country to fall under their tax laws, but still I have to pay/declare tax somewhere - is their a way around this?

Help,

Choppy

why?

[choppychugger]

I dont know thats why I'm asking?

[david96]

May one ask what is your nationality and your normal country of domicile for tax purposes?

If you are working in Australia on a 457 temp resident visa you will have a Tax file number from the ATO.

The tax year for Australia is 1/7/2008 to 30/6/2009.

[choppychugger]

May one ask what is your nationality and your normal country of domicile for tax purposes?

If you are working in Australia on a 457 temp resident visa you will have a Tax file number from the ATO.

The tax year for Australia is 1/7/2008 to 30/6/2009.

Thanks,

I am British, and haven't been paying any tax for about 2 years now.

I am of the understanding that you don't pay the 29% in Oz if you can off set your tax from somewhere else?

I am trying to find out if there is a way round this? or if I have to pay tax somewhere, which country will not hurt my wallet so much.

thanks

edit - I lay my hat in Thailand

choppy

Edited August 13, 2008 by choppychugger

[Soutpeel]

May one ask what is your nationality and your normal country of domicile for tax purposes?

If you are working in Australia on a 457 temp resident visa you will have a Tax file number from the ATO.

The tax year for Australia is 1/7/2008 to 30/6/2009.

Thanks,

I am British, and haven't been paying any tax for about 2 years now.

I am of the understanding that you don't pay the 29% in Oz if you can off set your tax from somewhere else?

I am trying to find out if there is a way round this? or if I have to pay tax somewhere, which country will not hurt my wallet so much.

thanks

edit - I lay my hat in Thailand

choppy

Choppy to turn this around a little, I know of Aussie guys working offshore in Thailand and resident in Aussie and the tax they pay in Thailand is offset against the tax they would be paying in Aussie and from I understand there needs to be a little "creative" accounting done so they dont own anything to the Aussie tax man.

Guess you would be paying less tax in Thailand, but think the issue would be if the amount payable in Thailand is less than 29%, then the Aussie tax will want the difference..in other words 29% tax is payable somewhere

[PattayaParent]

What's your contract say?

Do you get a tax free salary? If so then the employer should pay the 29% tax and you still take home the contract amount.

Otherwise find a new employer.

[choppychugger]

May one ask what is your nationality and your normal country of domicile for tax purposes?

If you are working in Australia on a 457 temp resident visa you will have a Tax file number from the ATO.

The tax year for Australia is 1/7/2008 to 30/6/2009.

Thanks,

I am British, and haven't been paying any tax for about 2 years now.

I am of the understanding that you don't pay the 29% in Oz if you can off set your tax from somewhere else?

I am trying to find out if there is a way round this? or if I have to pay tax somewhere, which country will not hurt my wallet so much.

thanks

edit - I lay my hat in Thailand

choppy

Choppy to turn this around a little, I know of Aussie guys working offshore in Thailand and resident in Aussie and the tax they pay in Thailand is offset against the tax they would be paying in Aussie and from I understand there needs to be a little "creative" accounting done so they dont own anything to the Aussie tax man.

Guess you would be paying less tax in Thailand, but think the issue would be if the amount payable in Thailand is less than 29%, then the Aussie tax will want the difference..in other words 29% tax is payable somewhere

Agreed - But how do i pay tax in Thailand, I don't have a work permit ( don't need one as I don't work here ) or company. Also i am trying to look into the tax deductions for Thailand, does anyone have an idea?

been speaking to a few of the chaps today - I think the creative accounting would involve ( if I have to ) my tax getting paid from my salary, and my off shore allowance, well, staying off shore??

thanks

choppy

[choppychugger]

What's your contract say?

Do you get a tax free salary? If so then the employer should pay the 29% tax and you still take home the contract amount.

Otherwise find a new employer.

Hi

I can't remember what is on my original contract. I don't pay any tax what so ever. i can't see any tax deductions on my payslip.

The thing is, when we get a salary adjustment, a new shorter contract is written up - stating salary, off shore/on shore allowance, and per diem for food etc..... No mention of tax.

I'm waiting for the company accountants to come back to me, and am hoping that they will pay the 29% for me, otherwise - yup - I'm looking for a new job. Unless there is another way round it??

Choppy

[Soutpeel]

May one ask what is your nationality and your normal country of domicile for tax purposes?

If you are working in Australia on a 457 temp resident visa you will have a Tax file number from the ATO.

The tax year for Australia is 1/7/2008 to 30/6/2009.

Thanks,

I am British, and haven't been paying any tax for about 2 years now.

I am of the understanding that you don't pay the 29% in Oz if you can off set your tax from somewhere else?

I am trying to find out if there is a way round this? or if I have to pay tax somewhere, which country will not hurt my wallet so much.

thanks

edit - I lay my hat in Thailand

choppy

Choppy to turn this around a little, I know of Aussie guys working offshore in Thailand and resident in Aussie and the tax they pay in Thailand is offset against the tax they would be paying in Aussie and from I understand there needs to be a little "creative" accounting done so they dont own anything to the Aussie tax man.

Guess you would be paying less tax in Thailand, but think the issue would be if the amount payable in Thailand is less than 29%, then the Aussie tax will want the difference..in other words 29% tax is payable somewhere

Agreed - But how do i pay tax in Thailand, I don't have a work permit ( don't need one as I don't work here ) or company. Also i am trying to look into the tax deductions for Thailand, does anyone have an idea?

been speaking to a few of the chaps today - I think the creative accounting would involve ( if I have to ) my tax getting paid from my salary, and my off shore allowance, well, staying off shore??

thanks

choppy

Choppy think you are in quite a difficult position as you are working in a 1st world country..ie Aussie, like the north sea, very difficult to dodge the old tax man...

I work offshore in Thailand and the dayrates we agreed to are net tax, therefore the company employing us takes care of the tax in Thailand and typically people are "double contracted"....ie small salary in Thailand which is taxable, bulk of the salary paid offshore...

In your situation would the company be prepared to double contract you ?, a lot of companies will not even entertain it these days, but might be worth a try..?

[RAZZELL]

I am British, and haven't been paying any tax for about 2 years now.

I think that is your problem. Are you still a British resident for tax purposes? If so you should still be paying HMRC

Paying tax is a necessary evil. We don't like it but sometimes you have to bite the bullet. You just have to get a good accountant to minimise the amount.

If your long-term future will be in Thailand maybe it's worth looking into paying tax there for Visa purposes. This could be offset against payments to the Oz authorities.

RAZZ

Edited August 14, 2008 by RAZZELL

[choppychugger]

I am British, and haven't been paying any tax for about 2 years now.

I think that is your problem. Are you still a British resident for tax purposes? If so you should still be paying HMRC

Paying tax is a necessary evil. We don't like it but sometimes you have to bite the bullet. You just have to get a good accountant to minimise the amount.

If your long-term future will be in Thailand maybe it's worth looking into paying tax there for Visa purposes. This could be offset against payments to the Oz authorities.

RAZZ

Thanks RAZZ, how do you suggest I present myself on the Tax radar in Thailand?

choppy

[malcolminthemiddle]

Am I right in thinking that when you are in Thailand you are on a tourist/visitor visa? If that is the case no need to declare any earnings or pay taxes in Thailand.

That only leaves only UK and Australia.

If you are non resident for tax purposes that solves UK and depending on your contract your company are responsible for any taxes due in Australia.

Where's the problem?

[Soutpeel]

I am British, and haven't been paying any tax for about 2 years now.

I think that is your problem. Are you still a British resident for tax purposes? If so you should still be paying HMRC

Paying tax is a necessary evil. We don't like it but sometimes you have to bite the bullet. You just have to get a good accountant to minimise the amount.

If your long-term future will be in Thailand maybe it's worth looking into paying tax there for Visa purposes. This could be offset against payments to the Oz authorities.

RAZZ

RAZZ, this is the question he has been asking, in his situation how does he pay income tax in Thailand, he doesnt work here....the only way I could see this working for him, if he was "employed" by a Thai company and rents his services out to the Aussie company, this will give him tax advantages and he would pay tax in Thailand. but saying this if the Aussies have said 29%, and his Thai deductions are less than 29% , then the Aussie taxman will want the difference anyway

Mentioned in an earlier post that I know of Aussies working offshore Thailand and they have to submit proof of tax paid every year in Thailand to the Aussie Tax man....As the tax rates are lower here than in Aussie, some "creative accounting" is done to "pay" more tax and so they are not be liable for tax in Aussie.

[choppychugger]

Am I right in thinking that when you are in Thailand you are on a tourist/visitor visa? If that is the case no need to declare any earnings or pay taxes in Thailand.

That only leaves only UK and Australia.

If you are non resident for tax purposes that solves UK and depending on your contract your company are responsible for any taxes due in Australia.

Where's the problem?

hi M.I.T.M

Yes Tourist / Visitor visa for Thailand.

Non Resident to the U.K.

So now I am of the understanding that just leaves Australia. I need to dig my original contract out and find out 100% what it says with regards to T.A.X implications.

Choppy

[choppychugger]

I am British, and haven't been paying any tax for about 2 years now.

I think that is your problem. Are you still a British resident for tax purposes? If so you should still be paying HMRC

Paying tax is a necessary evil. We don't like it but sometimes you have to bite the bullet. You just have to get a good accountant to minimise the amount.

If your long-term future will be in Thailand maybe it's worth looking into paying tax there for Visa purposes. This could be offset against payments to the Oz authorities.

RAZZ

RAZZ, this is the question he has been asking, in his situation how does he pay income tax in Thailand, he doesnt work here....the only way I could see this working for him, if he was "employed" by a Thai company and rents his services out to the Aussie company, this will give him tax advantages and he would pay tax in Thailand. but saying this if the Aussies have said 29%, and his Thai deductions are less than 29% , then the Aussie taxman will want the difference anyway

Mentioned in an earlier post that I know of Aussies working offshore Thailand and they have to submit proof of tax paid every year in Thailand to the Aussie Tax man....As the tax rates are lower here than in Aussie, some "creative accounting" is done to "pay" more tax and so they are not be liable for tax in Aussie.

Sorry, I must make it clear that I spend a considerable amount of time in Oz ( not more than 180 days a year ), my company has offices in Perth but is based in Singapore, and I get paid in US$$.

My fault i should have stated that from the start.

choppy

[Soutpeel]

Am I right in thinking that when you are in Thailand you are on a tourist/visitor visa? If that is the case no need to declare any earnings or pay taxes in Thailand.

That only leaves only UK and Australia.

If you are non resident for tax purposes that solves UK and depending on your contract your company are responsible for any taxes due in Australia.

Where's the problem?

hi M.I.T.M

Yes Tourist / Visitor visa for Thailand.

Non Resident to the U.K.

So now I am of the understanding that just leaves Australia. I need to dig my original contract out and find out 100% what it says with regards to T.A.X implications.

Choppy

Choppy mate...as you have said yourself, you only have Australia left, go an get yourself a good Aussie accountant/tax advisor and let them see how much they could get knocked off the 29%

[choppychugger]

Am I right in thinking that when you are in Thailand you are on a tourist/visitor visa? If that is the case no need to declare any earnings or pay taxes in Thailand.

That only leaves only UK and Australia.

If you are non resident for tax purposes that solves UK and depending on your contract your company are responsible for any taxes due in Australia.

Where's the problem?

hi M.I.T.M

Yes Tourist / Visitor visa for Thailand.

Non Resident to the U.K.

So now I am of the understanding that just leaves Australia. I need to dig my original contract out and find out 100% what it says with regards to T.A.X implications.

Choppy

Choppy mate...as you have said yourself, you only have Australia left, go an get yourself a good Aussie accountant/tax advisor and let them see how much they could get knocked off the 29%

Your right,,, will concentrate on Oz now.

My heads a bit fried at the moment as i am in the middle of a house purchase as well.

Thanks for the replies

choppy

[RAZZELL]

Non Resident to the U.K.

How long have you been out of the UK?

Has to be 3 years and no ties to the UK.

RAZZ

[PattayaParent]

Non Resident to the U.K.

How long have you been out of the UK?

Has to be 3 years and no ties to the UK.

RAZZ

That's non-domiciled you're talking about.

Non-resident is one tax year.

[RAZZELL]

My heads a bit fried at the moment as i am in the middle of a house purchase as well.

Where are you buying the house? It would be logically (and probably necessary) to pay tax in that country, be it OZ or Thailand.

RAZZ

[choppychugger]

My heads a bit fried at the moment as i am in the middle of a house purchase as well.

Where are you buying the house? It would be logically (and probably necessary) to pay tax in that country, be it OZ or Thailand.

RAZZ

Been out of the UK for about 6 years.

The house we are buying is in Thailand, I'm acting as guarantor for my partner.

Choppy

[malcolminthemiddle]

My heads a bit fried at the moment as i am in the middle of a house purchase as well.

Where are you buying the house? It would be logically (and probably necessary) to pay tax in that country, be it OZ or Thailand.

RAZZ

Why? What has income tax got to do with a house purchase?

[RAZZELL]

Why? What has income tax got to do with a house purchase?

Well, if the OP sees his long-term future in Thailand, (which I assume he does as he's buying a house) it might be worth forming a company, paying tax etc etc for future Visa, PR applications.

If he'd bought a house in the UK, he would "probably" be regarded as "resident" for tax purposes back in the UK

RAZZ

[Soutpeel]

Why? What has income tax got to do with a house purchase?

Well, if the OP sees his long-term future in Thailand, (which I assume he does as he's buying a house) it might be worth forming a company, paying tax etc etc for future Visa, PR applications.

If he'd bought a house in the UK, he would "probably" be regarded as "resident" for tax purposes back in the UK

RAZZ

Believe Under some new tax regs in the UK, that if own a house in the UK you will be regarded as "resident" and therefore liable for some form of tax. Know of guys I have worked with who are based out the UK and they are trying to sell up and move to places like Cyprus to get away from the tax...

[RAZZELL]

Believe Under some new tax regs in the UK, that if own a house in the UK you will be regarded as "resident" and therefore liable for some form of tax. Know of guys I have worked with who are based out the UK and they are trying to sell up and move to places like Cyprus to get away from the tax...

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/faqs.htm

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/leaflets/c9.htm

Read IR20.

RAZZ

[david96]

If you are employed in Australia as an employee you must have a Tax File Number and a group certificate is issued to you at the end of the financial year, if you are a temp resident on a 457 visa you may be subject to the medicare levy also.

If you are a self employed contractor you will have an ABN number for tax purposes and a TFN for yourself. You will have to pay GST also which you can claim back.

Suggest you contact a chartered accountant in Australia specialising in taxation and contact the ATO also for information, here is the website. The tax rates are listed there also a lot of your questions may be answered there.

http://www.ato.gov.au/

[PattayaParent]

Why? What has income tax got to do with a house purchase?

Well, if the OP sees his long-term future in Thailand, (which I assume he does as he's buying a house) it might be worth forming a company, paying tax etc etc for future Visa, PR applications.

If he'd bought a house in the UK, he would "probably" be regarded as "resident" for tax purposes back in the UK RAZZ

Believe Under some new tax regs in the UK, that if own a house in the UK you will be regarded as "resident" and therefore liable for some form of tax. Know of guys I have worked with who are based out the UK and they are trying to sell up and move to places like Cyprus to get away from the tax...

Not true. You can own a house in UK and be non resident for tax purposes.

[RAZZELL]

Not true. You can own a house in UK and be non resident for tax purposes.

I did say "probably"...

But if you rent it out you pay tax on the income

To get back on topic and to answer the OP - I think it's best to see where you want to be domiciled for tax purposes and then see an Aussie or Thai accountant.

RAZZ

Edited August 15, 2008 by RAZZELL

[choppychugger]

Problem solved - 457 Visa Non resident. My company have decided that they will pay any tax implications, and my original contract stays in place.

It's a Good day today as the bank gave us the thumbs up for our mortgage aswell.

Thanks all for your advice/pointers

Choppy