It Had To Happen

[dotcom]

From Todays Bangkok Post:

Liquefied petroleum gas prices for transport should be doubled to discourage use of the heavily subsidised fuel, Energy Ministry officials say.

DOUBLED mmmmmmm.

That will put a hitch in yer getalong.

[PhilHarries]

The problem with subsidies is that they create an artificial situation that is unsustainable.

LPG is refined from crude oil, crude oil has increased massively in price, therefore simple economics dictate that the price of LPG should also increase. Subsidy merely passes that increase onto consumers and non-consumers alike via taxation or price hikes on other products and services.

Okay you can pass on these increased costs to persuade people to change to a more environmentally friendly fuel, say by increasing the tax on gasoline, but this kind of measure only really works in the long term. Even this approach has it's limits, as the consumption of gasoline reduces the tax return similarly reduces thus the price of LPG has to increase.

Subsidies are artificial and unsustainable but this present government is trapped into subsidising a range of goods to protect their power base, the urban poor, and keep themselves in power.

[Cuban]

Surely the bottom line for all of our planet's current problems is over population.

Too many people wanting a lifestyle that can not be supported from the resources of a single planet earth.

I have seen the 11th hour and An Inconvenient Truth in the past few days, neither movie talked about the issue of population as the cause for the increase in use of materials and energy.

We need an AIDS or pandemic influenza virus to wipe out a percentage of the human population or we need free clean fuel to power a clean economy and sustain our growth.

What happens when you put too many rats in a box?

[Who, me ?]

Surely the bottom line for all of our planet's current problems is over population.

Too many people wanting a lifestyle that can not be supported from the resources of a single planet earth.

I have seen the 11th hour and An Inconvenient Truth in the past few days, neither movie talked about the issue of population as the cause for the increase in use of materials and energy.

We need an AIDS or pandemic influenza virus to wipe out a percentage of the human population or we need free clean fuel to power a clean economy and sustain our growth.

What happens when you put too many rats in a box?

The pandemic you refer to will solve nothing.....

Most victims will be found in the poorest part of the population who has no access to medication. Those who can, are actually those who heavily consume petrol (crude oil in general)

[kedawi]

Surely the bottom line for all of our planet's current problems is over population.

Too many people wanting a lifestyle that can not be supported from the resources of a single planet earth.

I have seen the 11th hour and An Inconvenient Truth in the past few days, neither movie talked about the issue of population as the cause for the increase in use of materials and energy.

We need an AIDS or pandemic influenza virus to wipe out a percentage of the human population or we need free clean fuel to power a clean economy and sustain our growth.

What happens when you put too many rats in a box?

100% - wrong on all counts! Not bad going....why not have another go?

[PhilHarries]

Whereas he is wrong regarding the pandemic he is correct with the problem. There are just too many of us on the planet and, due to medical advances again available to the affluent consumers, we are living too long.

Any volunteers for who gets off first?

Thought not.

[kedawi]

ANY fuel....all based or not will attract a TAX from any govt once it becomes commonplace and is seen to represent a dent in the income the govt gets from gas/diesel etc which are already taxed in most countries.

subsidies of course have to go for the same reasons

[Cuban]

I thought the last pandemic 1918 killed the healthy.

Source:

Many of its victims were healthy young adults, in contrast to most influenza outbreaks which predominantly affect juvenile, elderly, or otherwise weakened patients.

That and a war - maybe in the Middle East - would ease our numbers.

None of us want to scale back our standard of living or end our live for the 'greater' good of the world population.

What is the solution?

[PhilHarries]

A certain "gentleman" back in the 30's thought he had the final solution.

We have to cut world population in the long term for sure. If we don't do it Mother Earth will do it for us.

In terms of energy usage conservation is IMO the way forward but I doubt if it will be enough. I see no other alternative to the stark fact that our standard of living will have to stagnate as a minimum. But given that the rest of the world's population aspires to increase their standard it is almost inevitable our's will have to fall.

Unless someone can come up with the holy grail of producing cheap renewable energy in amounts sufficient to support our epansion. Then we are back to Mother Earth's solution.

[Cuban]

> A certain "gentleman" back in the 30's thought he had the final solution.

Hitler just blamed 'others' for the ills of Germany at the time, not sure his belief was that a pure aryan race would solve either over population or future availbility of resources, but I doubt it was even a remote issue at the time. I understood he just had a plan for using the world, Spain was to be for growing fruit and holidays on the South coast.

> We have to cut world population in the long term for sure. If we don't do it Mother Earth will do it for us.

"Mother Earth" doesn't plan, it's systems operate in their natural cycles - until those cycles are interupted by whatever cause. We have leeched off of many sub-systems for the lifetime of our species, fish, fuel & forests are all depleted because of too many of us.

Sorry that my comments have taken this thread way off topic - maybe best moved elsewhere?

I think the idea of CO₂ quoters is seen as the current 'solution' - when really the measure is number of people per country, maybe?

That would raise very emotive issues about population control - that might be enough to start a suitable war.

[dotcom]

Surely the bottom line for all of our planet's current problems is over population.

I have thought so for 30 years.

Mother Earth does have her ways of fighting back.

btw - I will consume as much crude oil as I can afford to buy. And all you socialists can kiss my ass.

You ride your bicycle & leave me the hel_l alone. You freeze in winter & roast in summer. Doesn't affect me at all.

Unlike phoney environmental nazi's like Al Gore that have many massive houses & fly around in their private jets wailing about the ozone. And telling YOU to cut back. LOL.