Protecting The Roof Over Your Head From A Devious Partner

[GuestHouse]

This is a very good post Guesthouse. All the more so, as it was nort delivered with your usual condescending tone. You have a lot of very good insight to offer and when you deliver it without judgement I think it's value is very much greater.

The difficulty with this is that it is in itself judgemental. A comment that seems to be good advice based on a criticism of decisions/actions/choices may seem condescending if, for example, the reader knows that s/he has made those same mistakes - if the reader feels that they are the subject of the criticism.

Whereas the advice may seem good, wise and not condescending where the reader has not made the same mistakes and feels him/herself to be wise not to have done so.

I therefore make no apology for the way I present my comments and arguments - They are personal comments, just like any other comments and advice on TV people can read and head them as they wish.

Notwithstanding my oft made observation on that the definition of good advice to expats moving to, or living in Thailand.

Good advice far too often being that which agrees with what the person asking for advice wants to hear.

[Gary A]

If these things worry you then why not just buy a condo in your own name?

And if you are worried you may be murdered for your wealth then surely you ought to be learning the lesson of the past week and start putting distance between you and the person(s) you fear might murder you.

The root of the problem seems to me to be the fact that the biggest lies Farangs hear in Thailand are the lies they tell themselves.

Some personal honesty (Honesty with yourself) about the basis of your relationship ought to provide an indication of your partner's (and perhaps your partner's family) expectations. There are plenty of pointers to be found in TV threads on what to look out for and only you know how your relationship goes. If you are able to be honest with yourself be so and act accordingly.

The other No No is building a house in your wife's village - I just do not understand why guys do this.

We hear about scheming Thai partners who strip Farangs bare - but let's be honest, the biggest risk is that your relationship breaks down or that you simply drift apart.

In these, what I suspect are the far more common case, the Farang is left with a choice - stay in a relationship that has broken down, living right next door to the ex and her family or give up the house and the invested assets that go with it.

Not only that, but in cases where there is a scheme going on, being right next door to the In-Laws puts the final nail in the Farang's fortunes.

To my mind building in Nakhon Nowhere right next to the inlaws is about the dumbest thing a Farang can do. I mean really really dumb.

Some people actually enjoy living in a small village. I happen to be one of them. Living in a farang ghetto isn't that great as far as things to do. I still have a condo in Jomtien but have no desire to ever live there again. Of course I'm a country boy and not a city boy. Being a country boy, I missed having land for a garden and sorely missed having a decent work shop. Living in the country allows me to have some farm land, a tractor to play with and a well equipped eight meter by eight meter shop. Looking forward to visiting the same farang bars every day is NOT something I miss. My wife is a farm girl too. She plants rice by hand even though she doesn't have to. She could easily hire it done. She spends quite a bit of time with her family in the next village and I look forward to having some space to myself while she is visiting. Life in the country suits me fine. I'm really a crotchety old fart and enjoy my own company. I have UBC TV but I doubt that I watch it even once a week. I probably have a hundred DVD's that I may watch some day but right now I have better things to do. I drink beer a couple times a week at my favorite watering hole and maybe today is the day, or maybe not. Depends how I feel later. Right now I'm a little stiff from bouncing around on my tractor. Life is great!

[GuestHouse]

Well I agree, life in the country has a lot to recommend it. It's building right next door to the in-laws (as I say in the same village) that I see as an unnecessary additional risk. You seem not to have done that.

[Bizz]

If these things worry you then why not just buy a condo in your own name?

And if you are worried you may be murdered for your wealth then surely you ought to be learning the lesson of the past week and start putting distance between you and the person(s) you fear might murder you.

The root of the problem seems to me to be the fact that the biggest lies Farangs hear in Thailand are the lies they tell themselves.

Some personal honesty (Honesty with yourself) about the basis of your relationship ought to provide an indication of your partner's (and perhaps your partner's family) expectations. There are plenty of pointers to be found in TV threads on what to look out for and only you know how your relationship goes. If you are able to be honest with yourself be so and act accordingly.

The other No No is building a house in your wife's village - I just do not understand why guys do this.

We hear about scheming Thai partners who strip Farangs bare - but let's be honest, the biggest risk is that your relationship breaks down or that you simply drift apart.

In these, what I suspect are the far more common case, the Farang is left with a choice - stay in a relationship that has broken down, living right next door to the ex and her family or give up the house and the invested assets that go with it.

Not only that, but in cases where there is a scheme going on, being right next door to the In-Laws puts the final nail in the Farang's fortunes.

To my mind building in Nakhon Nowhere right next to the inlaws is about the dumbest thing a Farang can do. I mean really really dumb.

Some people actually enjoy living in a small village. I happen to be one of them. Living in a farang ghetto isn't that great as far as things to do. I still have a condo in Jomtien but have no desire to ever live there again. Of course I'm a country boy and not a city boy. Being a country boy, I missed having land for a garden and sorely missed having a decent work shop. Living in the country allows me to have some farm land, a tractor to play with and a well equipped eight meter by eight meter shop. Looking forward to visiting the same farang bars every day is NOT something I miss. My wife is a farm girl too. She plants rice by hand even though she doesn't have to. She could easily hire it done. She spends quite a bit of time with her family in the next village and I look forward to having some space to myself while she is visiting. Life in the country suits me fine. I'm really a crotchety old fart and enjoy my own company. I have UBC TV but I doubt that I watch it even once a week. I probably have a hundred DVD's that I may watch some day but right now I have better things to do. I drink beer a couple times a week at my favorite watering hole and maybe today is the day, or maybe not. Depends how I feel later. Right now I'm a little stiff from bouncing around on my tractor. Life is great!

Gary you have it all sewn up and are enjoying doing it also.

I take my hat off to you.

Life is what you make it.

The quality of ones life is measured in the amount of peace and happiness one attains in ones lifetime.

Not in the amount of money one holds on to when one dies.

There is a balance that we all can attain

[Khun Jean]

Most lawyers conveniently 'forget' to mention that a lease or usufruct with your spouse is worthless. The spouse can revoke that right.

incorrect information! the spouse canNOT revoke a right that is entered in the chanote.

Instead of 'yes','no' etc. Please provide information WHY it can not be revoked.

I agree the spouse can not just 'revoke' it but when divorced it is possible. (That little paper we have to sign to declare that the land is owned 100% and fully paid for by the spouse comes back to haunt us.)

And that possibility is scary when you have a lot of money tied up in property standing on land that will not be yours to use anymore.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Khun Jean

[Gary A]

Bizz, actually I am a cynic. It has served me quite well with my life in Thailand. I have invested a fair sum of money for my wife's future and feel good knowing that if something should happen to me or that someday we split up she will be able to make a living with what we have. She certainly won't be rich but she will have a decent Thai standard of living on her own. I have always looked after number one, that's me. If you don't look after yourself, don't plan on anyone else looking after you.

[a2396]

I love living in the boonies of Issan. BUT, no way would I consider staying here if not for my Thai wife. She is the reason that I am happy and content here. Why would I go to the trouble and expense of having all sorts of contracts made to protect my investments? I will never be able to own any property in my name so why bother? If there comes a day when she no longer wants to live with me or if I no longer want to live with her, I will pack my personal things in MY truck and head back to MY condo. YES, I know you have all heard it before but the golden rule is to NOT spend more than you can afford to walk away from. The house, land and car are all in her name while I keep a vehicle and the condo in my name. Certainly there would be a lot of hurt and financial loss involved but I wouldn't miss any meals.

Good answer. Property in your wife's name belongs to her. End of story. Unbelievable so many gullible Farangs hand over theri life savings, in a situation with such shaky foundations as the property ownership laws here. The problem is that they (the Farangs) are setting a standard which most Thai women married to a foreigner expect. House, car, land, sin sot, monthly maintence for her & family, etc, etc. If you don't deliver, there will be constant "belly-aching" about how well "other wives of foreigners have done compared to what you may provide.

[LoveDaBlues]

In Mexico young girls only marry old men for financial reasons. Is it different with thai girls.

No, it's the same with Thai girls. But plenty of the old gits here will tell you MGID........

I'm 52 and the Thai wife is 27. We're together over 3 years now. On the front end I asked her why a young beautiful girl would want to be with someone so much older. Her reply: Because you can support me and help my family. I liked her honesty and thought she was a keeper.

Pick up a BG and ask the same question. Answer: Because you such hansum man

[LoveDaBlues]

I love living in the boonies of Issan. BUT, no way would I consider staying here if not for my Thai wife. She is the reason that I am happy and content here. Why would I go to the trouble and expense of having all sorts of contracts made to protect my investments? I will never be able to own any property in my name so why bother? If there comes a day when she no longer wants to live with me or if I no longer want to live with her, I will pack my personal things in MY truck and head back to MY condo. YES, I know you have all heard it before but the golden rule is to NOT spend more than you can afford to walk away from. The house, land and car are all in her name while I keep a vehicle and the condo in my name. Certainly there would be a lot of hurt and financial loss involved but I wouldn't miss any meals.

Good answer. Property in your wife's name belongs to her. End of story. Unbelievable so many gullible Farangs hand over theri life savings, in a situation with such shaky foundations as the property ownership laws here. The problem is that they (the Farangs) are setting a standard which most Thai women married to a foreigner expect. House, car, land, sin sot, monthly maintence for her & family, etc, etc. If you don't deliver, there will be constant "belly-aching" about how well "other wives of foreigners have done compared to what you may provide.

MY farang is better than YOUR farang.

I see it (and live it) all the time.

[yabaaaa]

My Wife has made a Thai will in Thai and English leaving everything to me and in the case of her own land and own house (not our house or land) has stated she does not want any member of her family to receive anything. How safe is this?

sorry mate don't believe that for a second. Why are people always trying to prove whos got the better thai bird???

You obviously feel very inadequate with a reply like that. Some folks here have actually been married to Thais for a very long time. Believe what you want.

Not all Thais are the same the sooner you realise this the better for you, both her parents are dead.

[Brigante7]

Simon,

That is the best solution for everyone married to a Thai. Most lawyers conveniently 'forget' to mention that a lease or usufruct with your spouse is worthless.

The spouse can revoke that right.

However if the contract is with someone else it is as solid as it can get.

(It is one of the reasons some landoffices (they are instructed) will not register a usufruct when it is not with your spouse. And then some actually think those working at the landoffice are stupid. They just do their bit to keep every inch of Thailand in possesions of Thai. )

How can a spouse revoke a lease or usufruct? Surely if you have a legaly binding contract stating that you (Farang) can have access over the land (Owned by your spouse) to your house until both of you are dead then will that not suffice or am I being just a little optimistic here?

[Naam]

Lolz. Language barrier, Naam. Please re-read. Defending one's own spouse is the norm. Taking offense at another poster who apparently feels proud about who their spouse is... is what my comment is directed at.

So, no break will be issued.

no language barrier Heng and no set norms in this respect. repeat request for "break"

[Naam]

Living in the country allows me to have some farm land, a tractor to play with and a well equipped eight meter by eight meter shop.

some people have all the luck. i wonder what they did to deserve it

[Gary A]

Living in the country allows me to have some farm land, a tractor to play with and a well equipped eight meter by eight meter shop.

some people have all the luck. i wonder what they did to deserve it

I paid my dues in previous lives. I have done a lot of stupid things in my life. Most were caused by thinking with the wrong head. Some people learn from their mistakes and some don't. I learned the hard way but I DID learn.

[a2396]

Simon,

That is the best solution for everyone married to a Thai. Most lawyers conveniently 'forget' to mention that a lease or usufruct with your spouse is worthless.

The spouse can revoke that right.

However if the contract is with someone else it is as solid as it can get.

(It is one of the reasons some landoffices (they are instructed) will not register a usufruct when it is not with your spouse. And then some actually think those working at the landoffice are stupid. They just do their bit to keep every inch of Thailand in possesions of Thai. )

How can a spouse revoke a lease or usufruct? Surely if you have a legaly binding contract stating that you (Farang) can have access over the land (Owned by your spouse) to your house until both of you are dead then will that not suffice or am I being just a little optimistic here?

I have also heard about this from a lawyer in Thailand, ie a contract between a husband & wife is not legally binding. If they made such BEFORE the marriage, OK. But, I am not sure the lawyer was an expert about this. I would be curious as to what are the facts about this. Any lawyers out there?

[Heng]

Lolz. Language barrier, Naam. Please re-read. Defending one's own spouse is the norm. Taking offense at another poster who apparently feels proud about who their spouse is... is what my comment is directed at.

So, no break will be issued.

no language barrier Heng and no set norms in this respect. repeat request for "break"

Case closed.

[billd766]

I have read this thread from the start and I honestly tried not to answer but.........

I am 64 and my wife will be 43 and our son is 4.

Everything that I have is in my wifes name and I have a will naming her as the beneficiary when I die and she will also get 50% of my pensions for her lifetime.

She has one naming me as the executor and everything goes to our son and I am his legal guardian until he is 18 when I will be 78.

Both wills are in Thai and English.

At the moment I am in New Zealand earning more money to buy more land for their future.

We have about 20 rai in the country and I am hoping to buy another 100 rai. We live way out in the sticks rather like Gary A but not in the village where her family lives as they come from Bang Na in Bangkok.

We have actually written her eldest brother out of the will and her middle brother will be our sons guardian should we both die.

If our life should turn into ratshit and she really wanted to leave it would be me that went as I would not want to stay in the house any more anyway.

What I am doing is to provide for my family in the future.

I have known my wife since 1993 when I first came to Thailand and I loved her so much that I divorced my UK wife and gave up my western life to live with her 400 km up country in a village setting.

My life has changed for the better since I met her and it will be for life I hope. However I could also get run over by a bus tomorrow and my life would be over.

The only things I would miss is my son and my wife.

[james24]

My Wife has made a Thai will in Thai and English leaving everything to me and in the case of her own land and own house (not our house or land) has stated she does not want any member of her family to receive anything. How safe is this?

sorry mate don't believe that for a second. Why are people always trying to prove whos got the better thai bird???

why would a wife leave her assets to anyone other than her husband?

Derogatory?? In what way?? Where I come form there is nothing wrong with calling a woman a bird, dont be so up your arse.

[james24]

My Wife has made a Thai will in Thai and English leaving everything to me and in the case of her own land and own house (not our house or land) has stated she does not want any member of her family to receive anything. How safe is this?

sorry mate don't believe that for a second. Why are people always trying to prove whos got the better thai bird???

Why are some folks so sensitive about how other folks feel about their spouses?

for the record: it does not concern me personally as i am not married to a Thai lady but i resent people's derogatory comments in this respect. it is against forum rules to call an obvious moron a moron (id est insult ad hominem) but deragotory comments concerning wives or partners of fellow TV-members should be tolerated with a smile?

GIMME A BREAK Heng! in what environment did you grow up to adopt those kind of values?

sorry just read this drivvle, what are you blubbering on about?? Loosen your jockstrap you french quoting cheesy wanna be intelligent and morally correct git.

[Maigo6]

sorry just read this drivvle, what are you blubbering on about?? Loosen your jockstrap you french quoting cheesy wanna be intelligent and morally correct git.

Insult of The Week award ?

[Khonwan]

...

The other No No is building a house in your wife's village - I just do not understand why guys do this.

We hear about scheming Thai partners who strip Farangs bare - but let's be honest, the biggest risk is that your relationship breaks down or that you simply drift apart.

In these, what I suspect are the far more common case, the Farang is left with a choice - stay in a relationship that has broken down, living right next door to the ex and her family or give up the house and the invested assets that go with it.

Not only that, but in cases where there is a scheme going on, being right next door to the In-Laws puts the final nail in the Farang's fortunes.

To my mind building in Nakhon Nowhere right next to the inlaws is about the dumbest thing a Farang can do. I mean really really dumb.

What pisses me off is reading bold and unsubstantiated statements by people such as yourself in the apparent belief you are correct and all-knowing. Get off your high horse. For someone who works outside Thailand and therefore spends a hel_l of a lot less time in Thailand yet purports to know the country, the people and the culture is beyond me.

I have lived in my wife’s village for 12 years. My reality here bears no comparison with your ideas of what it must be like. I fully intend to live out my remaining 30 years, or so, in this same village. And if I die tomorrow, so be it.

I would guess that what you suggest could often be the case, but you too are only guessing. Why pontificate? Have you ever tried living in the same village as your in-laws? Do posts like this feed your self worth?

In another very recent post, you tried, in a very poor manner, to promote the idea that a husband must consider his wife’s feelings first. You seem now to be overlooking your own advice. Many of we “dumb farangs” who choose to live in the same village as our in-laws do so out of love for our partners, realising the level of support that family will be able to offer in the future. In-laws do not have to be a drag – they can, and mostly do in my case, make life more enjoyable.

And should you find my post insulting, how do you think I should feel when I read your insulting views? Personally, I’d always prefer to live near my Thai in-laws rather than next door to someone with your condescending attitudes.

Edited August 16, 2008 by Khonwan

[scotsman]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/-t204086.htm...t&p=2125565 If you want to read more about this topic of usufruct and if it can be revoked by your wife look in this thread. I think that this is a very Grey area in Thai law that has not been tested in a Thai court. But if you did want to setup a usufruct with your wife then to add on extra security would be to lease it out to a third party say your brother or sister for 30 years. This can be done on a usufruct. It is also a normal practice for a husband & wife to make a will to look after one or the other in case of death. If your wife wills you the land you have 1 year to sell or change the name to another Thai person.

A usufruct will die when you die but the 30 year lease to your brother or sister will not.

I don't believe that all Thai women are bad there is good & bad people everywhere and it always comes down to how much trust & love is in your relationship. But the old saying here is never invest more than you can walk away from is very true.

Regards

Scotsman

[Heng]

sorry just read this drivvle, what are you blubbering on about?? Loosen your jockstrap you french quoting cheesy wanna be intelligent and morally correct git.

Insult of The Week award ?

Started out with 'sorry,' so maybe it was an apology?

[billd766]

What pisses me off is reading bold and unsubstantiated statements by people such as yourself in the apparent belief you are correct and all-knowing. Get off your high horse. For someone who works outside Thailand and therefore spends a hel_l of a lot less time in Thailand yet purports to know the country, the people and the culture is beyond me.

I have lived in my wife’s village for 12 years. My reality here bears no comparison with your ideas of what it must be like. I fully intend to live out my remaining 30 years, or so, in this same village. And if I die tomorrow, so be it.

I would guess that what you suggest could often be the case, but you too are only guessing. Why pontificate? Have you ever tried living in the same village as your in-laws? Do posts like this feed your self worth?

In another very recent post, you tried, in a very poor manner, to promote the idea that a husband must consider his wife’s feelings first. You seem now to be overlooking your own advice. Many of we “dumb farangs” who choose to live in the same village as our in-laws do so out of love for our partners, realising the level of support that family will be able to offer in the future. In-laws do not have to be a drag – they can, and mostly do in my case, make life more enjoyable.

And should you find my post insulting, how do you think I should feel when I read your insulting views? Personally, I’d always prefer to live near my Thai in-laws rather than next door to someone with your condescending attitudes.

I have been living in the village for the last 5 years except when I have been offshore working (as I am now) and rather than living in my wifes family village they live in Bangkok and they love to come up to see us. We usually have her nephews and nieces up during the school holidays and the rest of the family at various times. We even have her mother living with us full time as she likes it better than Bangkok.

Since I came back to Thailand in 2001 I have always supported her family but in the early part of this year I was unable to send them money, so they then helped us financially.

Last year when I came back from working in PNG my wife asked if we could take them on a short holiday. So we did and 17 of us from 3 generations went on a trip around Northern Thailand and all of us had a great time.

My wife's (and by extension mine) family are always welcome at our house.

Maybe I am lucky where others are not but I have no fear of being bumped off by my wife/family etc as I believe that she loves me as I love her and all the family.

If this does not run in the same vein as this thread I really don't care as I am me warts and all.

[lannarebirth]

Despite the success stories I think Guesthouses post is still something everyone should read and take onboard. I do not recommend a direct move to "village life" for new arrivals to Thailand. You won't speak the language and your relationship will be as lopsided as it's possible to imagine.

That said, it is my intention to build and move to a lovely village some 20km from Chiang Mai.. I have owned land there for 5 years, know most of the locals and can convere with them in rudimentary fashion and my wife has no more familial ties to the place than I do. There's very much to recommend in village life, but I don't think it suitable is for most farangs new to Thailand .

[a2396]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/-t204086.htm...t&p=2125565 If you want to read more about this topic of usufruct and if it can be revoked by your wife look in this thread. I think that this is a very Grey area in Thai law that has not been tested in a Thai court. But if you did want to setup a usufruct with your wife then to add on extra security would be to lease it out to a third party say your brother or sister for 30 years. This can be done on a usufruct. It is also a normal practice for a husband & wife to make a will to look after one or the other in case of death. If your wife wills you the land you have 1 year to sell or change the name to another Thai person.

A usufruct will die when you die but the 30 year lease to your brother or sister will not.

I don't believe that all Thai women are bad there is good & bad people everywhere and it always comes down to how much trust & love is in your relationship. But the old saying here is never invest more than you can walk away from is very true.

Regards

Scotsman

After reading this link, it would appear that this is a gray area indeed. I have only seen fuzzy and condradictory answers to this. In the end, Thai law does not exactly have a great track record for favoring the rights of a foreigner. In any case, does one really want to end up with an ex-wife as your landllady. I prefer to keep my financial future under my control.

[Khonwan]

Despite the success stories I think Guesthouses post is still something everyone should read and take onboard. I do not recommend a direct move to "village life" for new arrivals to Thailand. You won't speak the language and your relationship will be as lopsided as it's possible to imagine.

...

And therein lies the simple message that should apply to all new settlers to Thailand, whether it is about choosing a location or investing in a business, farm, etc.

My wife and I got to know each other over a period of two years living together in Bkk in rented apartments before we decided if we even had a future. In that period, neither of us invested anything financially together. We got to “know” each other (that knowledge, of course, is a never-ending learning curve since we as individuals also change over time in ourselves and in how we react to each other, and the many new situations we face as time goes on).

No need, therefore, for posters to be pretentious in giving often-unsolicited B&W advice. Stick with the one basic common sense rule:

Allow time to get to know your partner (domestic and/or business) before making any commitments.

Getting to know them should include getting to know their family & friends…and allowing time for you to see how those folks interact with you.

Simple really.

[F1fanatic]

I have read this thread from the start and I honestly tried not to answer but.........

I am 64 and my wife will be 43 and our son is 4.

Everything that I have is in my wifes name and I have a will naming her as the beneficiary when I die and she will also get 50% of my pensions for her lifetime.

She has one naming me as the executor and everything goes to our son and I am his legal guardian until he is 18 when I will be 78.

Both wills are in Thai and English.

At the moment I am in New Zealand earning more money to buy more land for their future.

We have about 20 rai in the country and I am hoping to buy another 100 rai. We live way out in the sticks rather like Gary A but not in the village where her family lives as they come from Bang Na in Bangkok.

We have actually written her eldest brother out of the will and her middle brother will be our sons guardian should we both die.

If our life should turn into ratshit and she really wanted to leave it would be me that went as I would not want to stay in the house any more anyway.

What I am doing is to provide for my family in the future.

I have known my wife since 1993 when I first came to Thailand and I loved her so much that I divorced my UK wife and gave up my western life to live with her 400 km up country in a village setting.

My life has changed for the better since I met her and it will be for life I hope. However I could also get run over by a bus tomorrow and my life would be over.

The only things I would miss is my son and my wife.

Let's see.... so you are 64 and you're wife is 42. when you met, you were 49 and she was 27. No doubt then she loves you for yourself and because 'you are so hansum'. (So much so that she was prepared to ignore the fact that you were already married.)

Just count yourself lucky, and try to understand that others cannot afford to just move out of their house and give it to the wife if she finds someone better/wealthier!

[Khun Jean]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/-t204086.htm...t&p=2125565 If you want to read more about this topic of usufruct and if it can be revoked by your wife look in this thread......

Scotsman

After reading this link, it would appear that this is a gray area indeed. I have only seen fuzzy and condradictory answers to this. In the end, Thai law does not exactly have a great track record for favoring the rights of a foreigner. In any case, does one really want to end up with an ex-wife as your landllady. I prefer to keep my financial future under my control.

When i read it it is not grey at all!.

Lets take this part of a quote. These are the two interpretations.

If you are legally married to the owner, Thai lawyers disagree on the application of article 1469 CCCT. This article mentions that all agreements made between spouses can be cancelled by the Court at the request of one party, unless agreements affect third parties.

So the article 1469 CCCT mentions that all agreements made between spouses can be cancelled by the Court at the request of one party'.

That is not grey, it is very clear. Ofcourse there is un 'unless'. Third parties. Most usufructs that are made don't have 'third parties' and are as such easy to cancel.

Conclusion 'NOT A GREY AREA'

Then the two interpretations. First one:

According to one interpretation, “publicity” or registration affect third parties and a usufruct can’t be cancelled.

Again a mention of 'third parties'. Meaning without a third party it can be canceled.

This interrpretation is exactly what is said in the article 1469 CCCT.

The othe rinterpretation:

According to the other interpretation, we have to search for the spirit of the law and it looks like Thai law wanted to end all relations between spouses in case of divorce, even usufruct agreements.

Also this interpretation doesn't sound very 'solid'. It says 'even usufructs', but you can include any other kinds like leases, superficies etc.

Conclusion 'NOT A GREY AREA'

And here is the way to get around it. Again!

A way to avoid the application of 1469 CCCT would be to have a second agreement (like a lease) affecting a third party before the Court could cancel your usufruct agreement."

In short it is very clear and not grey at all.

Any contract between spouses can be cancelled.

Any contract between spouses AND a third party can not be cancelled.

Knowing this the best way to go about 'owning' land would be to include someone in the contract, be it your brother, mother, friend, etc. (Just make sure they don't die before you. )

This will be the 'third party' that ulimately will protect your investments.

[Maizefarmer]

.... hence the use of a Thai registered company - as the "3rd party" (?)

Can anyone see a reason why a Thai company could not represent the "3rd party"?

In its best format the Thai company could own the house from the start (?)

Edited August 16, 2008 by Maizefarmer