Unilever To Move 700 Jobs To Singapore...

[chivo]

I remember reading in the Bangkok Post last year of IKEA deciding not to open in bangkok.

And now Unilever is moving 700 positions in bangkok to singapore!!! the article in a marketing publication cited the reason being as better deals being offered by singapore.

now, i love thailand, and want it to succeed. but can't the powers that be see that protectionism, and instability are going to seriously do damage to the economy here?

i was watching a documentary on singapore which mentioned how singapore's success was largely due to their open policy to foreign business and employees, which in turn, bring ideas and innovation to industry and society etc...

while the rich thai-chinese choose to over-protect business in 'their' country, the mass populace here will suffer.

[Moonfruit]

This is on top of a rather large exodus by Unilever to Singapore earlier in the year.

[trajan]

And now Unilever is moving 700 positions in bangkok to singapore!!! the article in a marketing publication cited the reason being as better deals being offered by singapore.

just curious to read the article...which marketing publication is that?

[NotNew2You]

I would imagine it is one of these "regional" headquarters operations. Maybe responsible for Uni's operations in SE Asia. If so, this makes perfect sense. Why would any multi-national base such an operation in Bangkok, with its lack of infrastructure to support it? Bangkok has poor IT services, expensive and poor telecom services, poorly trained and very limited English speaking workforce, very bad traffic congestion, and horrible pollution. And this doesn't even take into account the hoops one has to jump through regarding visas and WPs.

The only reason a corp. would set-up in Bangkok over Singapore, which has exactly the opposite of all of these above, is if the regional MD was a monger himself or had a Thai gik

Edited August 17, 2008 by NotNew2You

[mrcheshire]

Sorry all you goodie two shoes , i agree with above poster. The only thing bkk offers over singapore is quality of female entertainment. What is Singapore thinking?

[chivo]

Media magazine (from HK) i think it was...

[midas]

I would imagine it is one of these "regional" headquarters operations. Maybe responsible for Uni's operations in SE Asia. If so, this makes perfect sense. Why would any multi-national base such an operation in Bangkok, with its lack of infrastructure to support it? Bangkok has poor IT services, expensive and poor telecom services, poorly trained and very limited English speaking workforce, very bad traffic congestion, and horrible pollution. And this doesn't even take into account the hoops one has to jump through regarding visas and WPs.

The only reason a corp. would set-up in Bangkok over Singapore, which has exactly the opposite of all of these above, is if the regional MD was a monger himself or had a Thai gik

NotNew all your reasons are valid but for longtime I have thought the ongoing language barrier is going to be

the real drag on Thailand. Even if you go to places like Cambodia , Vietnam and in particular China

you see almost a desperation by young people to learn English as quickly as possible so they can

communicate effectively with foreigners. Thailand almost as this half hearted approach-

almost a grudging reluctance that their own language isn't sufficient...

And it's not just language -its being able to think and solve problems-

generally you just don't see it here

[wasabi]

But wouldn't wages be much higher in Singapore? The low cost (and probably quality) of hiring in Thailand seems like a reason to stay.

[cmsally]

I think this is the link you are referring to:

Media Magazine

This reflects some of the sentiments I have heard in Bangkok from Singapore business people. They are frustrated with the political situation mostly. Maybe somebody else knows more about the incentives offered by the Singapore govt. which are mentioned in the article.

[midas]

But wouldn't wages be much higher in Singapore? The low cost (and probably quality) of hiring in Thailand seems like a reason to stay.

Having worked in India as well as Thailand I have now firmly come to the conclusion

" low cost " is all relative. if it takes double the number of people here double the amount of time

to carry out a task then it's not necessarily " low cost ". Singaporean workers would be

better educated and therefore are likely to be able to produce more efficient results.

[Who, me ?]

Now, there are some stupid union leaders here in Thailand, who might really make some group think twice before coming to Thailand......

[midas]

The language barrier issue in Thailand would certainly not make me chose to

open a major business in this country.

I have tried hard to learn to speak Thai. I don't consider myself to be totally incompetent

regarding foreign languages because I've learnt others successfully. But here

several Thais seriously said to me they prefer it if foreigners do not try to speak any

Thai unless it is a good standard! What kind of encouragement is that?

Has anyone noticed how they have a very low tolerance for learners who try to speak Thai?

Is it any wonder that you lose your confidence and your desire to keep trying to learn?

But on the other side of the coin just today I tried to get information regarding what one could consider

a prestige standard service in Thailand and yet :-

1. After sending an e-mail to them (admittedly in English ) three times

all e-mails have been ignored !

2. They are supposed to have an English version of their web site

which is not working and I see on a posting on Wikpedia somebody commented this was the case

as far back as February of this year so there is obviously no desire to remedy that either !

3. I have tried several times to speak with someone at their office on the telephone

and whilst some staff speak absolutely no English the few that do are unable

to understand my question.

So in the end it looks as though I may need to rely on a Thai person to help me

translate to get the required information.

In the global world of 2008 I'm surprised still find the situation still exists in Thailand

and I doubt if you'd have quite so many problems in neighboring countries.

[cloudhopper]

Excellent postings in this thread Midas; I couldn't agree more.

[foxxx]

Yeah, i agree with most of everything here, you pay for what you get, you may pay more for .SG staff, but they'll do a better job and do it faster.

Not only that, I've been to SG a few times and I love it, great roads, systems, city, from a living & working environment, i'd choose to open a company in SG over TH any day.

[thaihome]

After reading the article it appears this move is part of some sort strategy to consolidate advertising in one location. Unilever still occupies one entire tower and the small building in front at SCB Park Plaza, so moving 700 positions (and they said no Thai will lose their job) to Singapore does not seem to fit any doomsday scenario as posited here.

Unilever has a huge market for their products in Thailand, and with a population some 10 times greater then Singapore, I don’t see them abandoning Thailand anytime soon. Moving senior people around is a full time job for most MNC’s. How else do you show you are doing something?

TH

[midas]

I remember reading in the Bangkok Post last year of IKEA deciding not to open in bangkok.

And now Unilever is moving 700 positions in bangkok to singapore!!! the article in a marketing publication cited the reason being as better deals being offered by singapore.

now, i love thailand, and want it to succeed. but can't the powers that be see that protectionism, and instability are going to seriously do damage to the economy here?

i was watching a documentary on singapore which mentioned how singapore's success was largely due to their open policy to foreign business and employees, which in turn, bring ideas and innovation to industry and society etc...

while the rich thai-chinese choose to over-protect business in 'their' country, the mass populace here will suffer.

But surely that's the point! It's the " rich thai-chinese "

that want to keep the ordinary Thai people down because it suits their idea of society just fine.

these are the very same people who have also made it so hard for " farangs " here-with all these

stupid rules that simply make it so unattractive to do business here that I for one ( and I knoI'm not the only one for sure ) thing why should I bother ! I would love to give an opportunity to

some ordinary young Thais to improve their situation but the investment criteria in this country absolutely sucks

It's not the ordinary Thai people's fault that the education system needs to be completely overhauled

and it's not their fault that it is so hard for them to progress up the career ladder in this country.

[Spiny]

<After reading the article it appears this move is part of some sort strategy to consolidate advertising in one location. Unilever still occupies one entire tower and the small building in front at SCB Park Plaza, so moving 700 positions (and they said no Thai will lose their job) to Singapore does not seem to fit any doomsday scenario as posited here.>

I have witnessed a marked change in the origins of the Unilever expatriate workforce at SCB over the last 4 years or so with Brits and US "managers" being replaced almost entirely by Indian professionals.

One advantage of the exodus to Singapore will be the shortening of the queues at SCB Au Bon Pain at lunchtime !

[think_too_mut]

I have tried hard to learn to speak Thai. I don't consider myself to be totally incompetent

regarding foreign languages because I've learnt others successfully. But here

several Thais seriously said to me they prefer it if foreigners do not try to speak any

Thai unless it is a good standard!

That's why I have never tied to learn Thai or Japanese. Although I picked few basics and can find my way around, I would speak only as last resort.

My Thai colleague told me how irritating it is when someone is speaking bad Thai. He said, the feeling is, like running across, half bent and with your jacket over your head, from roof to roof under strong rain. Just clinch your teeth and run as fast as you can, endure it, soon it will be over.

The trouble is - in a meeting - Thais won't even listen what is being said, just waiting for the speaker's mouth to shut and end everybody's pain.

Similarly, my Japanese colleagues told me about a guy who (to me) sounded fluent in Japanese, that he is making asshol_e of himself and may cost company lost deals if he goes around and speaks like that. He was booted 18 months later.

When he joined the company, he boasted 25 years in Japan and 2200 kanjis that he can use.

Back to Unilever - if they are moving foreign staff to Singapore it may well be for logistics, transparency, predictability and cost. Keeping expats in Singapore may well be cheaper than in Bangkok. No way Unilever would leave behind 65 mil people market.

[wasabi]

It's true speaking bad Thai is worse than not speaking Thai at all. But if you can at least get the tones right it opens many doors and is very useful. I used to encounter a lot of resistance but have since mastered the tones. My grammar and vocab still needs to be strengthened but overall I'd say it is now a benefit.

[think_too_mut]

It's true speaking bad Thai is worse than not speaking Thai at all. But if you can at least get the tones right it opens many doors and is very useful. I used to encounter a lot of resistance but have since mastered the tones. My grammar and vocab still needs to be strengthened but overall I'd say it is now a benefit.

Sorry. what doors?

Charming a receptionist and then shut up? Or carry on and make an idiot of yourself?

[mortenaa]

It's true speaking bad Thai is worse than not speaking Thai at all. But if you can at least get the tones right it opens many doors and is very useful. I used to encounter a lot of resistance but have since mastered the tones. My grammar and vocab still needs to be strengthened but overall I'd say it is now a benefit.

Sorry. what doors?

Charming a receptionist and then shut up? Or carry on and make an idiot of yourself?

I never felt i made a fool of myself trying to speak Thai. Usually im a greated with "pood Thai geng maak" or "pood thai chat" even though my vocab is so so.

[think_too_mut]

It's true speaking bad Thai is worse than not speaking Thai at all. But if you can at least get the tones right it opens many doors and is very useful. I used to encounter a lot of resistance but have since mastered the tones. My grammar and vocab still needs to be strengthened but overall I'd say it is now a benefit.

Sorry. what doors?

Charming a receptionist and then shut up? Or carry on and make an idiot of yourself?

I never felt i made a fool of myself trying to speak Thai. Usually im a greated with "pood Thai geng maak" or "pood thai chat" even though my vocab is so so.

No, no. I meant coming for a meeting to other company's offices.

[thaihome]

....

One advantage of the exodus to Singapore will be the shortening of the queues at SCB Au Bon Pain at lunchtime !

Luckily they don't go to NCB much.

TH

[NotNew2You]

No way Unilever would leave behind 65 mil people market.

I don't think anyone said (or meant) that Uniliver would abandon Thailand as a market for their goods. Only that possibly Thailand may loose management staff to more attractive locations in SE Asia. No consumer goods manaufacturer would ignore the Thai market, for while average incomes are low, the total polulation/market is large and there is a decent sized middle-class.

[think_too_mut]

I am just off fom a concall with our staff on site at Unilever. Our large customer, their APJ IT and brains are mostly in Singapore.

[thaihome]

No way Unilever would leave behind 65 mil people market.

I don't think anyone said (or meant) that Uniliver would abandon Thailand as a market for their goods. Only that possibly Thailand may loose management staff to more attractive locations in SE Asia. No consumer goods manaufacturer would ignore the Thai market, for while average incomes are low, the total polulation/market is large and there is a decent sized middle-class.

Just means more houses in Nitchada will be available for all the expats Chevron is bringing in.

TH

[bkkjames]

After reading the article it appears this move is part of some sort strategy to consolidate advertising in one location. Unilever still occupies one entire tower and the small building in front at SCB Park Plaza, so moving 700 positions (and they said no Thai will lose their job) to Singapore does not seem to fit any doomsday scenario as posited here.

Unilever has a huge market for their products in Thailand, and with a population some 10 times greater then Singapore, I don’t see them abandoning Thailand anytime soon. Moving senior people around is a full time job for most MNC’s. How else do you show you are doing something?

TH

Are you serious or just can't see the forest for the trees.

Since when do you have to have a large presence in a market in order to sell to it?

Anyways Unilever will continue to keep factories here because of cheap labor. All skilled high-paying positions will move to SG. This is a trend. Too much hassle/taxation/wp etc etc etc to deal with so keep it to a bare minimum.

While wages may(?) be more in SG, the overall cost of employing a foreigner there is probably cheaper once all the extra governmental fees, conditions, etc etc are taken into account.

[bkkjames]

No way Unilever would leave behind 65 mil people market.

I don't think anyone said (or meant) that Uniliver would abandon Thailand as a market for their goods. Only that possibly Thailand may loose management staff to more attractive locations in SE Asia. No consumer goods manaufacturer would ignore the Thai market, for while average incomes are low, the total polulation/market is large and there is a decent sized middle-class.

Just means more houses in Nitchada will be available for all the expats Chevron is bringing in.

TH

You don't need expats to drill holes in the ground.

[thaihome]

Two posts in a row showing how little you actually know about business in general and in particular in Thailand. Simlar to your remarks on Class A office space in Bangkok.

1.As I said, Unilever has a very large office at SCB, no signs of them moving them all to Singapore.

2.Chevron has something like 300 expats in Thailand right now. Does a bit more then drill holes in the ground (most of Chevron’s upstream is offshore anyway). They are putting a couple of billion USD into Thailand these days.

Stick to lower Sukhumvit, you probably know a lot more about that.

TH

[12DrinkMore]

Normally I don't like to add pointless, "I agree too" comments. But in this case I completely agree with Midas and want to add a couple more points of Thais.

- The reluctance to accept personal responsibility

- The lack of interest in applying the brain to learn something new or to improve things

- A lack of curiosity

- Happy to do a substandard job and smile about it, knowing it is sub standard, and not caring

- Inability to accept constructive criticism

- The "boss knows all, knows best and cannot be contradicted" attitude from both the boss and the staff

And Thailand must surely be the only place on Earth where you will hear it said "foreigner who can speak Thai is bad, he knows too much" DUH