Discovery About Udon Girlfriend's Gender

[Svenn]

I've browsed thaivisa for a while without posting, thinking I'd never be had like those other imbiciles on the forums, until a few weeks ago. The title of my post says it all and I don't want to elaborate on it because it still makes me sick to think about it; but it should be sufficient to say that she had had a full operation before I met her. If you care to read my story below, I think you will find it is unique from others, so please no cliche snappy responses, I seek genuine thoughts. The main thing I want advice for now is just how common this is and if I'm alone or not:

I met her in Isaan 2 years ago and I knew some Lao already from college, we met far from any bar or tourist place... so this discovery came as a huge suprise to me, something I thought only happens to old codgers is Pattaya or BKK. Thing is I'm in my mid twenties, she's a university student, and I had never slept with anyone before her, and even if I had, I don't think I would have percieved her former gender- she's really beautiful and the operation apparently very skillful... on top of that, she took hormones.

The thing that's different about my story I think is that there's no hard feelings between us, it's just straight up sad and confusing. She never once asked for money and she has the sweetest heart, we've been to 6 other Asian countries together over the 2 years and had all the characteristics of a normal, very close relationship, even if it was long-distance at time. I may be young and naive but I'm not a social idiot like others farangs, so I just ask you to take at face value that she never cheated on me, so PLEASE- no rants about how she must be a secret bargirl with many boyfriends or something.

She had always hidden her passport from me, her one ID, because she said her photo in it was really embarrassing... finally one night a few weeks ago out of the blue, she got down on her knees, started crying, bowed her head down, and handed me the passport like she was making an offer to a monk... and I looked inside.

I'm not angry at her from witholding this info from me, I pity her more than anything- all she's wanted in her very hard life is to have a normal relationship with a normal boy who wasn't some sicko old guy that had a thing for katoeys. I too hadn't had much success with girls back in the USA. She hates ladyboys/katoeys and hates gays even more, she says that she was always a girl, and felt so since she was 5. I'm no liberal, in fact I'm kind of socially conservative and previously didn't have much respect for transgender issues. But now I really want to feel that this girl really is a girl 100%, and just happened to be born with the wrong organ or something. On the other hand, part of my love for her has stopped now and I'm sad, and I told her I'm not sure I could ever marry her, especially since I want kids someday. But constancy and the status quo are what I confide in, so I've told her for now I can still support her (we have been building a small cheap house together outside Udon (at my request and initiative guys, not hers)) and I'll keep meeting with her for a few years, and we'll take it from there.

Edited August 20, 2008 by Svenn

[bergen]

Hmmmmmm.....................Just follow your heart?

[poshthai]

you say she never asks for money then you say you are supporting her.i thought he/she had been to uni so should get a decent job so why support her/him.

[taurus8]

Hmmmmmm.....................Just follow your heart?

So, you discovered the truth. Yesterday you loved her,today is over ? because of a picture.This person needs more moral support from you .She told you the truth because she felt that she could trust you.Now you withdraw the trust.Not fair. She had gone true a very serious change in her life.She loves you enough to tell you the truth.Its time that you change and learn to have more understanding on many social issues.Some day you will have children...just imagine if some day they come home and say: "Dad..I am gay" .What will yiy say? Love your children,regardless of who they will be. And love this person, she needs it.

[Issangeorge]

i have never been in that kind of situation so can't really comment. I do think that it would be natural for your feelings to change once you found out and I think you are right to continue seeing her and not just break it off, you may find that your love for her is so strong that it will eventually overshadow the fact she once had man's body. I just don't know and i don't think anyone would know unless he was in the same position. I do know of one other man who lived with a girl for at least six months before he found out she was a former man. He broke it off immediately, but he never really loved her and was living with her more for the convenience than anything else, but yes other people are fooled also. Oh this man had had lots of experience with real women. Issangeorge.

[Sir Burr]

Some day you will have children...

Not if he stays with him/her, he won't.

Leave. A heterosexual man needs a heterosexual woman (a real one with no Y chromosomes).

[eek]

But now I really want to feel that this girl really is a girl 100%, and just happened to be born with the wrong organ or something.

Exactly. She was a woman born in a mans body and she fixed it. Thats all. 100% woman. You are both young, you dont know what the future holds, long term you could always adopt. Natural born women sometimes cannot conceive also. Seems until this disclosure you both are well matched to each other. A good companion in life is not so easy to find. Dont let something she couldnt help (being born as the wrong sex) get in the way of both your happiness.

Best of luck.

[slapout]

Another first in my experience in the LOS. ( the story that is) I do wonder if you have met his/her family, in travels how did you not seen the passport at hotel check-ins, immigration, etc? I do not have the experience to compare her physical attributes to ladies born as ladies, apparently neither do you, from reading the above story. I am not going to make any scarcastic remarks, call you a troll, nor give advise. Guessing neither of you want to have children, your happy with each other, and want to try to make it work and you answer these points to your and her satisfaction, go for it. I would hope you have or will discuss all the potential pitfalls you will encounter in traveling (you have done this) legal documents, prejudices etc through out life. The up side is you were told or maybe ignorance is bliss.

[JUDAS]

Unusual story though not unique. You said that once she confided in you about her true gender part of your love for her died and you were/are sad. I'm just wondering whether your feelings have really changed or is it your conservative views/upbringing which are actually affecting you? Good luck.

[JOATMON]

I think you're going to get a lot of people saying that love will conquer all and you should look at the person not the gender. I agree with this in theory, but there are practical aspects you must consider, one of course you mentioned was kids. Adoption is a difficult process and can test the metal of even the strongest of relationships, and will not be made easier by her being a previously male. As you are young, you may not appreciate this bit as yet but here goes. When you are old and gray, you tend to look back on your life and the choices you made as a young pup. If you have something REAL with this person, you will for the rest of your life regret breaking it off and think yourself stupid for having caved in to 'society' and lost the chance to be happy... thats what its all about...being happy, satisfied. If she satisfies you, you are done.

[0Mix1up]

but I'm not a social idiot like others farangs,

no cliche snappy responses, I seek genuine thoughts

Hmmmm

[sgtpeppers]

She/he is not 100% female, never can or will be.

Sorry, that is just the way it is. IMHO of course.

Just be 'friends' and find a real woman, if a real woman is what you really want.

If that doesn't work, leave.

ps. how could you not know

Edited August 20, 2008 by sgtpeppers

[Thaddeus]

Just earn enough to keep the bridge over your head and you'll both be fine.

[Heng]

A LOT of farangs out there either can't tell or are trying out something new. I tend to think it's more of the former.

[Carib]

It is between your ears, YOUR ears.

If SHE, and I do mean SHE hadn't told you, nothing would have changed. Correct?

But she did, now does that make her a bad, or a better person?

So what has changed now? What is the thought that you cannot handle? What is different all of a sudden, everything she had you liked, and enjoyed each other and you had good times, and now....

You pity her? For what, for making changes to herself to make her life complete? What is there to pity?

You feel she is a a 100% girl, so what is wrong ? Because she cannot have kids?

Does another woman guarantee that she can?? There is no guarantee for nothing, as you should know by now.

You will keep meeting with her for a few years.....and you will take it from there... What will you take from there?? Not loving her anymore? Pitying her?

[farangconnection]

Some day you will have children...

Not if he stays with him/her, he won't.

Leave. A heterosexual man needs a heterosexual woman (a real one with no Y chromosomes).

Ballax....................................your talking outa your arsh.

[britmaveric]

Simple truth is the person deceived you and you weren't able to decide for yourself. If she was open/honest with you from the very beginning then that is one thing, however she lied to you and your relationship is based on falsehoods. I think its time to move on.... trust has been broken and makes you wonder what else the person is hiding.

Edited August 20, 2008 by britmaveric

[lazeeboy]

I've browsed thaivisa for a while without posting, thinking I'd never be had like those other imbiciles on the forums, until a few weeks ago. The title of my post says it all and I don't want to elaborate on it because it still makes me sick to think about it; but it should be sufficient to say that she had had a full operation before I met her. If you care to read my story below, I think you will find it is unique from others, so please no cliche snappy responses, I seek genuine thoughts. The main thing I want advice for now is just how common this is and if I'm alone or not:

I met her in Isaan 2 years ago and I knew some Lao already from college, we met far from any bar or tourist place... so this discovery came as a huge suprise to me, something I thought only happens to old codgers is Pattaya or BKK. Thing is I'm in my mid twenties, she's a university student, and I had never slept with anyone before her, and even if I had, I don't think I would have percieved her former gender- she's really beautiful and the operation apparently very skillful... on top of that, she took hormones.

The thing that's different about my story I think is that there's no hard feelings between us, it's just straight up sad and confusing. She never once asked for money and she has the sweetest heart, we've been to 6 other Asian countries together over the 2 years and had all the characteristics of a normal, very close relationship, even if it was long-distance at time. I may be young and naive but I'm not a social idiot like others farangs, so I just ask you to take at face value that she never cheated on me, so PLEASE- no rants about how she must be a secret bargirl with many boyfriends or something.

She had always hidden her passport from me, her one ID, because she said her photo in it was really embarrassing... finally one night a few weeks ago out of the blue, she got down on her knees, started crying, bowed her head down, and handed me the passport like she was making an offer to a monk... and I looked inside.

I'm not angry at her from witholding this info from me, I pity her more than anything- all she's wanted in her very hard life is to have a normal relationship with a normal boy who wasn't some sicko old guy that had a thing for katoeys. I too hadn't had much success with girls back in the USA. She hates ladyboys/katoeys and hates gays even more, she says that she was always a girl, and felt so since she was 5. I'm no liberal, in fact I'm kind of socially conservative and previously didn't have much respect for transgender issues. But now I really want to feel that this girl really is a girl 100%, and just happened to be born with the wrong organ or something. On the other hand, part of my love for her has stopped now and I'm sad, and I told her I'm not sure I could ever marry her, especially since I want kids someday. But constancy and the status quo are what I confide in, so I've told her for now I can still support her (we have been building a small cheap house together outside Udon (at my request and initiative guys, not hers)) and I'll keep meeting with her for a few years, and we'll take it from there.

this is my story,,,same thing happened to me 14years ago,were still together and have adopted a girl now 11years old ,my family accept it ,all freinds in thailand we met together accept it ,my other half is well liked by thais ,and we get on well together ,life throws a curve ball hit it and get on with your life......

[mikethevigoman]

I think to assume its always old men that get caught by these sorts is wrong, most know, unlike the young ones that like your self are fooled,.there are members on this forum that have for one reason or another chosen to have a katoey/transexual as a partner,its not for me but i dont see any harm,..for some it is not natural and no matter what they do they are at heart a man,..i wonder how many people around you knew and said nothing, bizarre isnt it, good luck,

[Carib]

I've browsed thaivisa for a while without posting, thinking I'd never be had like those other imbiciles on the forums, until a few weeks ago. The title of my post says it all and I don't want to elaborate on it because it still makes me sick to think about it; but it should be sufficient to say that she had had a full operation before I met her. If you care to read my story below, I think you will find it is unique from others, so please no cliche snappy responses, I seek genuine thoughts. The main thing I want advice for now is just how common this is and if I'm alone or not:

I met her in Isaan 2 years ago and I knew some Lao already from college, we met far from any bar or tourist place... so this discovery came as a huge suprise to me, something I thought only happens to old codgers is Pattaya or BKK. Thing is I'm in my mid twenties, she's a university student, and I had never slept with anyone before her, and even if I had, I don't think I would have percieved her former gender- she's really beautiful and the operation apparently very skillful... on top of that, she took hormones.

The thing that's different about my story I think is that there's no hard feelings between us, it's just straight up sad and confusing. She never once asked for money and she has the sweetest heart, we've been to 6 other Asian countries together over the 2 years and had all the characteristics of a normal, very close relationship, even if it was long-distance at time. I may be young and naive but I'm not a social idiot like others farangs, so I just ask you to take at face value that she never cheated on me, so PLEASE- no rants about how she must be a secret bargirl with many boyfriends or something.

She had always hidden her passport from me, her one ID, because she said her photo in it was really embarrassing... finally one night a few weeks ago out of the blue, she got down on her knees, started crying, bowed her head down, and handed me the passport like she was making an offer to a monk... and I looked inside.

I'm not angry at her from witholding this info from me, I pity her more than anything- all she's wanted in her very hard life is to have a normal relationship with a normal boy who wasn't some sicko old guy that had a thing for katoeys. I too hadn't had much success with girls back in the USA. She hates ladyboys/katoeys and hates gays even more, she says that she was always a girl, and felt so since she was 5. I'm no liberal, in fact I'm kind of socially conservative and previously didn't have much respect for transgender issues. But now I really want to feel that this girl really is a girl 100%, and just happened to be born with the wrong organ or something. On the other hand, part of my love for her has stopped now and I'm sad, and I told her I'm not sure I could ever marry her, especially since I want kids someday. But constancy and the status quo are what I confide in, so I've told her for now I can still support her (we have been building a small cheap house together outside Udon (at my request and initiative guys, not hers)) and I'll keep meeting with her for a few years, and we'll take it from there.

this is my story,,,same thing happened to me 14years ago,were still together and have adopted a girl now 11years old ,my family accept it ,all freinds in thailand we met together accept it ,my other half is well liked by thais ,and we get on well together ,life throws a curve ball hit it and get on with your life......

Best post sofar !

[siamamerican]

this is my story,,,same thing happened to me 14years ago,were still together and have adopted a girl now 11years old ,my family accept it ,all freinds in thailand we met together accept it ,my other half is well liked by thais ,and we get on well together ,life throws a curve ball hit it and get on with your life......

I never believed this could happen. Thought the stories were sort of urban myths. You really dealt with this situation in an aspiring manner.

Currious, even if they look and act like a woman, how do they hide not having menstrual cycles?

Edited August 20, 2008 by siamamerican

[richm7]

Simple truth is the person deceived you and you weren't able to decide for yourself. If she was open/honest with you from the very beginning then that is one thing, however she lied to you and your relationship is based on falsehoods. I think its time to move on.... trust has been broken and makes you wonder what else the person is hiding.

I like this response. The old "what you don't know about you don't worry about" is absolutely true when you don't know. But now, you do know; you have this huge internal conflict because you feel betrayed, which is right. You have been betrayed. I'm a great believer in all relationships in an up front "set level" where all relevant information is revealed. Then there are no surprises down the road. If there are, it is a betrayal and as far as I'm concerned, gives you the right to walk. That is a decision you now have to make and, if you are considering sticking around, I'd have an open and frank discussion now where any and all relevant information is laid on the table. Then you can make an informed decision on what to do.

Many guys reading this forum are, I'm certain, either married to or in real relationships with former bargirls. They know their wives used to be prostitutes and have made an informed decision to persue the relationship regardless. Hopefully, despite the naysayers, many of these relationships are long term successes. Yours could be too, so long as you are confident you won't get hit with another surprise. Somebody said follow your heart; true, but follow your head too. The one on your shoulders.

[gymshark]

Bin it mate, a relationship based on a lie (especially such a big one as this) will eat at you for ever. At the end of the day this is a bloke, you really want friends and family to know about this?

Cut your losses and find a real woman.

[NotNew2You]

She hates ladyboys/katoeys and hates gays even more...

I would say "she" is the one who has issues that need to be addressed! he, more than anyone, should know not to judge or look down on people because of their sexual orientation or gender expression.

People are people...if you loved this person before, it really should not effect how you feel about them now. Nothing has changed. However, the practical issue of children is legitimate...like finding out a girl you were going to marry had a medical condition precluding having children. You have to decide if that would be a deal breaker or not.

Another thing to consider is that many lady-boys are really cute and super-sexy in their late teens and into their twenties...but after that, they don't age well. Basically, you have a man aging in a women's body, and trying to manage that is a real nightmare. Have you any seen a hot lady-boy over 30?

Edited August 20, 2008 by NotNew2You

[Svenn]

I appreciate all the responses, each of which expresses the range of feelings I've felt at different times: from 'this girl's a dude, that's lied to u, get out of here as quick as possible' to 'this is just a minor issue of organ confusion that she corrected, let's put it behind us and continue making a life together" like lazeeboy's post, who's been together 14 years. Sometimes I think about how she's more feminine than a lot of Western girls I know and saved my life by being my first girl, other times I think about the post below, which scares me to death:

Another thing to consider is that many lady-boys are really cute and super-sexy in their late teens and into their twenties...but after that, they don't age well. Basically, you have a man aging in a women's body, and trying to manage that is a real nightmare. Have you any seen a hot lady-boy over 30?

We humans aren't perfect idealistic creatures- if she starts looking like a guy in 10 years or losing her hair, I just don't think I can tolerate it. She can still always be my closest friend, and I'd have the utmost concern for her well-being. I just don't know what happens to ladyboys when they get old, anyone know? Do a lot change back to men, or do some just keep on with everyday life as a lady?

[Svenn]

It is between your ears, YOUR ears.

If SHE, and I do mean SHE hadn't told you, nothing would have changed. Correct?

But she did, now does that make her a bad, or a better person?

So what has changed now? What is the thought that you cannot handle? What is different all of a sudden, everything she had you liked, and enjoyed each other and you had good times, and now....

You pity her? For what, for making changes to herself to make her life complete? What is there to pity?

You feel she is a a 100% girl, so what is wrong ? Because she cannot have kids?

Does another woman guarantee that she can?? There is no guarantee for nothing, as you should know by now.

You will keep meeting with her for a few years.....and you will take it from there... What will you take from there?? Not loving her anymore? Pitying her?

This I cannot answer, I just don't know. These are all good points. I'm at a loss.

[Jingthing]

She hates ladyboys/katoeys and hates gays even more

Sorry to hear s/he is a hater.

By Thai definition, she is a katoey. So she hates herself? That is sad. She is definitely a woman in a man's body, and she fixed her body. But I think she needs counseling.

More evidence that transgender people and regular homosexuals are NOT the same thing.

Edited August 20, 2008 by Jingthing

[eek]

Ive seen a couple of photos of Old Ladyboys (although the term Ladyboy can be confusing, and your lady in my eyes is 100% woman as she has the mentality of a woman and a full operation), around 70 years old in a book I just finished about the lives of Ladyboys. They just looked like old demure Thai ladies to me. Sweet smiles and kind eyes. You probably encounter a lot of old ladyboys, but as they just look like sweet old ladies, you would never know.

You are both SO very young, 'conventional' relationships often dont pan out in the end even if started with the best intentions, so try not to think so far into the future. If you feel you have found the right mate i say just put the past behind and live life as you would with any woman. If you drift apart over the years for whatever reason, be it feeling no longer attracted or whatever, then thats just another normal factor in life and can happen in any relationship.

One thing i suggest, if you do decide to give it a shot, is to completely remove from your mind that she was ever a man. She was always a woman. Please dont use that as ammunition in an argument or as an excuse to break up later down the line. I think that would be difficult for her to handle and unfair.

I also admire Lazeeboy for being open and honest about his own experience and that he and his lady are very happy.

Again, good luck Svenn.

[dotcom]

I don't see where this person "lied" to you. Something happened in her past which she chose not to share from the onset.

Hypothetically what if your new friend was a cancer survivor? Id someone doesn't share that are they a liar? I think not.

She was your first sexual encounter. How was it? is it?

If you are feeling satisfied I see no reason to throw her overboard.

I am pretty conservvative too but if you are comfortable with the status quo - leave it.

[Bangyai]

I think you're going to get a lot of people saying that love will conquer all and you should look at the person not the gender. I agree with this in theory, but there are practical aspects you must consider, one of course you mentioned was kids. Adoption is a difficult process and can test the metal of even the strongest of relationships, and will not be made easier by her being a previously male. As you are young, you may not appreciate this bit as yet but here goes. When you are old and gray, you tend to look back on your life and the choices you made as a young pup. If you have something REAL with this person, you will for the rest of your life regret breaking it off and think yourself stupid for having caved in to 'society' and lost the chance to be happy... thats what its all about...being happy, satisfied. If she satisfies you, you are done.

Good comment. BTW...like your avatar...it was keeping time to the music I'm listening to.