Tuesdays Shooting Outside Carrefour (Update)

[elektrified]

I too, had not heard about this. We were shopping in Carrefour and Home Pro at about the same time as I recall. Thank God the little one is O.K. What a horrific experience! Best of luck and all the best.

elektrified

[ThaiPauly]

Truly Shocking....Thank God your little one survived this awful experience.

I think that any of us that have media contacts abroad should use them to spread the word about this incident, and the ineffectiveness of the BIB to deal with it.

It makes us all think twice about how wonderful it is living in LOS.

You must have been through h@ll, but it's over now ,and your daughter will surely have a great story to tell as She grows up;

Thank you for letting us all know about this

[Nienke]

Wow, can I add myself to the group of totally shocked people?

What an horrific and traumatic experience. Very happy for you that your daughter is fine.

And as for 'coming to terms' with it, I sincerely hope you will be able to bounch back to normal life soon. In case it keeps on haunting you, your wife or your daughter, please, seek help. We're talking your sense of safety here! And besides the traumatic experience of the sudden pain your daughter went through, your sudden panic and anxiousness also will reflect on your daughter who is in a life stage where this can have an enormous impact.

I wish you all a very fast recovery,

Nienke

[ilyushin]

Sorry for having to go thru a terrible event. Great news your daughter has made improvements. You and the wife will also need some time to get over this too. My family prays for a speedy recovery and back to 100% soonest.

If justice is served they will find the shooter(s). The police know or can get the go down ( confidential informants) on everything, it all depends on what and who will do something about it.

[chiangmaibruce]

Carrefour is also our local supermarket & we have a child not much older than yours.

Incidents such as this one just show what a dark underbelly there is to the land of smiles. Another recent example is the murders near that university in Bangkok a few weeks back. It only came to light when a farang who witnessed the incident from a nearby rooftop, wrote to the Bangkok Post! There was no (investigative) reporting of it at all as far as I am aware.

As long as the authorities choose to look away and whistle then things can only get worse.

- CB

PS: Buy a lotto ticket

[tigerbeer]

thank you for posting this here to let us realise that anything can happen anywhere and at anytime. i work very close to carrefour but did not hear of such an incident.

the lack of action from the enforcement people brings to mind a someone who wrote in the Bangkok Post Postbag recently about a planned shootout in Bangkok in broad daylight where the bodies of 2 thai men were picked up right after being shot dead. never know who is involved do you? one can only assume.

your daughter is truly blessed to be alive. I have three small kids and i feel for you on what you have gone through.

TB..

[SPIKECM]

I agree absolutely. It is the old "if you don't like it, then leave" thing. You will never ever change one thing here so basically it is true. You have options. That is all. Stay or leave. There is only one bit of pressure that any farang can make here and that is bad news about Thailand which affects mainstream tourism. No one outside these shores really cares much if some love struck farang fell out of or was helped on his way down from a 20th storey pattaya apartment. People do care though if shit just might happen to them. With about 500,000 UK tourists coming to Thailand, then there just might be some interest in this happening to baby who holds the same nationality as themselves. Strange thing is why hasn't there been anything reported in the UK press?

There was a load of press at the hospital, but seemingly nothing in the Thai papers (not that I have seen anyway). Thailand may have a relatively free press regarding politics, but anything which will potentially hurt the Thai economy is silenced.

If anyone wants to change anything to make life safer in Thailand for themselves, then perhaps the only way to go is to expose the likes of this story through the western press. Of course the problem is that everything that is reported about Thailand is twisted and sensationalised and for the main part largely untrue. They even had the soi 6 moon muang guest house where the Welsh girl was murdered some years ago, located in the middle of a red light area.

My conclusion is the same. Like it or leave it. For that is the only choice. Have fun. Spend your money. But whatever you do, don't try and change anything. For simply, you never will. Thousands have tried and the only thing they have managed to change is the religion up on the hills. And that is hardly for the better.

[GuestHouse]

A frightening story, with a lucky lucky outcome.

As you say, I'm sure this is an immense shock and one that is going to take a long time to get over.

If it helps you and your family have best wishes coming your way from around the world - These from Saudi Arabia.

[richoz]

The Sun has published the incident

"Tot cheats death as bullet hits car"

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1593350.ece

Hopefully the disgraceful Thai police who sought to write this off as a hunting accident will get their just desserts now.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I agree with that overall. Even if miraculously this case was solved then it doesn't change the fact that there's tons more lunatics out there, possibly not even lunatics with handguns but lunatics who drink and drive, lunatics who say 'mai pen rai' to very unsafe situations with fire or electricity, or basic barriers that prevent kids from falling to their deaths in department stores or other public places, or nursery staff who leave dangerous medications or chemicals within reach of children, or hospitals where insane mistakes are made without any accountability, ... the list goes on.

[vegas]

That's a shocker, she looks like my little girl. After this story and the girl killed by the rottweiler recently, I don't want my daughter to leave the house. I'm lost for words.

[gpdjohn]

I'm glad that your little one is doing well.

I hope you are too.

[SPIKECM]

Yes, police said to Iain, something like "probably someone hurting birds"...ignorning all that the witness reported....and in their story, the Sun reports...

"Police told Iain witnesses reported several men firing at each other at the side of the road just before he had driven past".

As soon as the Sun ventures out of a direct quotation truth goes out of the window. Hopefully the quality press might see to reporting this.

The Sun are more interested in Iain and Nee's ages than the fact that a massive European supermarket chain let their customers drive out into the path of gun fire! The management of Carrefour seemingly has no policy in regard to this!

[girlx]

wow! that's crazy! sorry OP and good luck!

[sylviex]

Iain stated there were reporters and cameras at the hospital. Has anything at all been seen in the Thai press/TV news ?

Shootings in a very busy public place in the afternoon -- not what any of us came to CM for !!

A very lucky escape for this child.

Take care.

[jomama]

I agree absolutely. It is the old "if you don't like it, then leave" thing.

My advice is leave. That's what I did after 13 years. I look back on it and wonder what the h*ll I was thinking. The place is beguiling in a dark sort of way, I guess. I feel like I just emerged from some zombie-like experience. Bizarre really. 20 months after leaving I'm still shocked at the cr*p I was willing to tolerate. I personally witnessed more than 10 people killed on the roads, knew others who were killed in accidents or murdered, had one outrageous bad experience after another with landlords, wife's family, place of employment, etc.

You are indeed lucky. If your daughter had succumbed (thank God she is OK), there would have been no recourse or responsible party. As a Thai neighbor said to me about his three yapping dogs: "This is not your country. You can say nothing. If you don't like it leave." Check out the threads on the Pai shooting and Kirsty Jones case (the Kirsty case went a long way toward finally souring me irrevocably on the place). Just be thankful your not left with that awful type of loss -- made much worse by a bunch of outrageous BS trying to explain it away.

[KevinHunt]

A shocking story with a miraculous escape. Time to count your blessings. Best wishes for a quick recovery to you all.

[photojourn]

Like other people here I'm glad that you and your family are okay.

It's a little bit late after the event, but I'll see if there is any interest from the UK media regarding this matter. Feel free to PM or email me with any further updates.

[cmsally]

I didn't notice this in any of the news I normally read, but just found this in Chiang Mai News (local Thai newspaper)

Chiang Mai news

Not exactly the place you expect to get caught in a gunfight.

If gunfire was heard before in the general area, then the police should have been searching the area for other bullets and assoc. evidence.

Very lucky escape and a reminder that there are people running around here with guns that often don't have brain cells that run into the double digit amount.

[Ulysses G.]

I agree absolutely. It is the old "if you don't like it, then leave" thing.

My advice is leave. That's what I did after 13 years. I look back on it and wonder what the h*ll I was thinking. The place is beguiling in a dark sort of way, I guess. I feel like I just emerged from some zombie-like experience. Bizarre really. 20 months after leaving I'm still shocked at the cr*p I was willing to tolerate. I personally witnessed more than 10 people killed on the roads, knew others who were killed in accidents or murdered, had one outrageous bad experience after another with landlords, wife's family, place of employment, etc.

You are indeed lucky. If your daughter had succumbed (thank God she is OK), there would have been no recourse or responsible party. As a Thai neighbor said to me about his three yapping dogs: "This is not your country. You can say nothing. If you don't like it leave." Check out the threads on the Pai shooting and Kirsty Jones case (the Kirsty case went a long way toward finally souring me irrevocably on the place). Just be thankful your not left with that awful type of loss -- made much worse by a bunch of outrageous BS trying to explain it away.

The incident was most unfortunate and the baby was very lucky, but it was also an accident and could have happened anywhere in the world where guns are even somewhat commonly available.

I can't see it as any reason to leave Chiang Mai.

Edited August 22, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Bill97]

it was also an accident and could have happened anywhere in the world where guns are even somewhat commonly available.

Best wishes to the child and parents for speedy and full recoveries.

It is not so much that it could have happened anywhere but the frequency and severity of the occurrences here compared to other places. Sorry, I do not have any statistics.

Yes, we can not expect much response but I have little confidence that the LA County Sheriff, for example, would do much about such a case on their turf.

If you want safety, first world law enforcement and no barking dogs, you should not have stopped here. Those have never been part of the CM package.

[KevinHunt]

I agree absolutely. It is the old "if you don't like it, then leave" thing.

My advice is leave. That's what I did after 13 years. I look back on it and wonder what the h*ll I was thinking. The place is beguiling in a dark sort of way, I guess. I feel like I just emerged from some zombie-like experience. Bizarre really. 20 months after leaving I'm still shocked at the cr*p I was willing to tolerate. I personally witnessed more than 10 people killed on the roads, knew others who were killed in accidents or murdered, had one outrageous bad experience after another with landlords, wife's family, place of employment, etc.

You are indeed lucky. If your daughter had succumbed (thank God she is OK), there would have been no recourse or responsible party. As a Thai neighbor said to me about his three yapping dogs: "This is not your country. You can say nothing. If you don't like it leave." Check out the threads on the Pai shooting and Kirsty Jones case (the Kirsty case went a long way toward finally souring me irrevocably on the place). Just be thankful your not left with that awful type of loss -- made much worse by a bunch of outrageous BS trying to explain it away.

I admire your decisiveness - too many folk moan about their situatoin for years, are obviously not happy, but never take any action. Thailand doesn't suit everyone and it was smart of you to realise that it ain't for you and to take action.

However, I hope this doesn't turn into an excuse for the alarmists to take over.

This was a terrible, firightening incident but in reality it was also an extremely unfortunate and unlikely event. Iain would have a much better chance of getting a hole in one (and I've heard enough about his golf to say this) than this kind of event ever occuring to him or indeed any of us, anywhere in the world. I know he's from London, and this kind of incident happens there , but the likely-hood of it happening to an innocent bystander is extremely remote. If you're not involved in crime or living in crime-ridden areas then you are safe in most places in the world. I can't begin to imagine how traumatic this has been for all of those involved but as I said earlier, it is a time to count your blessing instead of becoming 'paranoid'.

Which by some strange coincidence, was the title of the very first single I ever bought (Black Sabbath). Trivial, I know.

I hope there is a full and exhaustive investigation into the incident but..........

[sylviex]

There was, in fact, a very similar incident in Chiang Mai last year. A Canadian visitor was shot in the back while riding a songthaew in a city area.

Not sure if this means Iain's chances of a hole in one are getting better or worse.

[richoz]

There was, in fact, a very similar incident in Chiang Mai last year. A Canadian visitor was shot in the back while riding a songthaew in a city area.

Not sure if this means Iain's chances of a hole in one are getting better or worse.

With reference to that incident that occurred last year (the Canadian in the Songthaew), did the police not also write that off as a "hunting accident". Notwithstanding that the victim was sitting in the back of a songthaew travelling around the moat.

.

What we have here are grossly incompetent people making (Thai police) making what they believe to be statements of fact based upon no evidence whatsoever. In Thailand that is acceptable because no one gives a dam_n.

.

Upon reading Iain's OP last night, I emailed the Sun in London, as did others I think. They have run a story, and I hope the powers-that-be take notice. 500,000 Brits visit Thailand every year. I hope this severely puts a dent in Thai tourism. People need to start taking responsibility here.

[Hawkup2000]

I am speechless. This thread should be in the general forum, because this concerns us all. Can moderator move it please?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The incident was most unfortunate and the baby was very lucky, but it was also an accident and could have happened anywhere in the world where guns are even somewhat commonly available. I can't see it as any reason to leave Chiang Mai.

Such as Medellin in Colombia, a Big Fat Kazakh Wedding, and most of the rural USA. I think it won't be that hard avoiding all of those.

And of course, in YOUR situation I would not leave Thailand; from what you write it seems you're reasonably single most of the time without having to worry about kids or a family.

[Wandering]

I drove into Carefour less than an hour after the incident and there was no sign of police, investigators, bystanders, or anything. It was just another rainy morning. I am surprised because, in USA for instance, the Crime scene investigative team would be retrieving evidence. My daughter is also 15 months old and my heart goes out to you.

[Bill97]

I drove into Carefour less than an hour after the incident and there was no sign of police, investigators, bystanders, or anything. It was just another rainy morning. I am surprised because, in USA for instance, the Crime scene investigative team would be retrieving evidence. My daughter is also 15 months old and my heart goes out to you.

What makes you think that the Thai police should function like the USA police do? Are their work situations comprable? Is their pay comprable? Do you also expect that Thai people and food should be like USA food and people? OTL

[Blinky Bill]

As the father of a 4 year old and a grandfather of similarly aged kids I can certainly understand the shock and horror you and your wife have experienced.

I had tears in my eyes reading the opening post.

Thankfully the outcome is most positive and your daughter is young enough to totally forget the incident.

[Loaded]

I drove into Carefour less than an hour after the incident and there was no sign of police, investigators, bystanders, or anything. It was just another rainy morning. I am surprised because, in USA for instance, the Crime scene investigative team would be retrieving evidence. My daughter is also 15 months old and my heart goes out to you.

Thai police instigate, and do not investigate, crime.

There's a Thai Tourist police office just a few hundred metres from this incident. Don't their officers carry 9mm handguns?

Edited August 22, 2008 by Loaded