Now Possible For Non-degreed Teachers To Obtain

[Loaded]

From Ajarn.com (link on home page)

"Applicant Type 3 - Method 4

For any teachers possessing a High School Diploma (or less) but NO Bachelor Degree.

People in this category must possess / obtain and/or complete the following:

1) A letter from the school you currently teach at -

a) stating how long you have been teaching there.

B ) signed by The Principal.

c) stating that the school does not have the budget to hire qualified teachers, as they demand a much higher salary.

d) stating that you are a fantastic teacher and the world as we know it would simply stop spinning if the school lost you, so please, please. please (with sugar on top) give this foreign teacher a teachers licence.

Whether or not the Teachers Council does or does not grant you a teachers licence will be entirely up to them. Even if they do, and before they do, you will STILL have to complete the 20-hour 'Foreign Teacher Thai Culture Training Program' and you must have completed this course BEFORE you send the letter from your school to The Teachers Council."

Letter from the Director/principal has been a common method for schools to obtain work permits for degree-less teachers for many years. It now appears the same is true of the Teacher Licence.

I know quite a few degree-less teachers working in Chiang Mai with work permits (Still a lot working without as well). Not just government schools but also private schools as well. One of them is our premier-on-the-run's old college.

The common sentiment of many old hands on this board and others is doom, gloom and the end of the world is nigh unless you have a BEd. Well that's not the situation in my province. Nothing has changed.

Edited September 22, 2008 by sbk

[Rionoir]

Well I won't get too excited until it actually works as they say it does, but... it's nice to see something that makes sense coming out in terms of new rules.

Is a teacher's license good for any school one applies for? Or is it employer-specific like a work permit? The way I understand things, being able to get a teacher's license means it SHOULD be easier for a non-degree holder to get a WP, correct?

Edited August 22, 2008 by Rionoir

[mizzi39]

Well I won't get too excited until it actually works as they say it does, but... it's nice to see something that makes sense coming out in terms of new rules.

Is a teacher's license good for any school one applies for? Or is it employer-specific like a work permit? The way I understand things, being able to get a teacher's license means it SHOULD be easier for a non-degree holder to get a WP, correct?

A teachers license is good for 3 years from the time it is issued, and it is transferable. I just completed the 20 hour culture course. The first half of the course was about qualifications. It is my understanding that non degree teachers must complete a 15 credit (education) course, plus TLT, and culture course in order to qualify for the TL and WP. If you can obtain the TL or a 2 year waiver from the teachers council (which I received), then the WP is automatic.

Edited August 22, 2008 by mizzi39

[Rionoir]

Well that sounds great to me, thanks for explaining that. I don't mind doing the culture course at all, I think I might even find it interesting unless it's just really poorly done. Either way it beats having to do an entire degree to get legal.

[frequentlyaskedquestions]

Well that sounds great to me, thanks for explaining that. I don't mind doing the culture course at all, I think I might even find it interesting unless it's just really poorly done. Either way it beats having to do an entire degree to get legal.

dam_n!!

I quit teaching today to complete my degree!

[Slip]

I have just done the culture course. It was pretty poorly done in some ways, but a lot of fun at times. In places it was interesting. The Thai languages exercises were photocopied from a fairly well known beginners' Thai text book. We watched a culture video designed for primary school children. We made Krathong. Powerpoint was in vogue. We watched a Thai cooking demonstration and got to have a go if we wanted, there was Thai dancing but no-one was forced to try it, the people running it were great. (and very very helpful). For the most part the lecturers were good, there was one who really wasn't. By turns it was endearing and insulting.

All in all -I've paid more and had worse weekends. The problem is what's coming next.

On balance I think after may years here, I still managed to learn something from the Thai Culture Course.

Edited August 22, 2008 by Slip

[mizzi39]

I have just done the culture course. It was pretty poorly done in some ways, but a lot of fun at times. In places it was interesting. The Thai languages exercises were photocopied from a fairly well known beginners' Thai text book. We watched a culture video designed for primary school children. We made Krathong. Powerpoint was in vogue. We watched a Thai cooking demonstration and got to have a go if we wanted, there was Thai dancing but no-one was forced to try it, the people running it were great. (and very very helpful). For the most part the lecturers were good, there was one who really wasn't. By turns it was endearing and insulting.

All in all -I've paid more and had worse weekends. The problem is what's coming next.

On balance I think after may years here, I still managed to learn something from the Thai Culture Course.

The culture course I took last week in Khon Khen was poorly organized as well. No one wanted to be there, but i feel that most people made the best of it. I even found some of the topics informative and enjoyable.

There was one belligerent, drunk teacher who really blew it for himself. 2 hours before the course ended he grabbed the microphone and started mouthing off to the Thai lecturer. She politely told him that no one was forcing him to live and work in Thailand (which is true) and then told him politely that he needed to leave. I never saw him again since he was promptly escorted out. Although he made an ass of himself, the rest of us felt a little embarrassed over this drama.

There should have been a representative from the MOE to answer questions concerning qualifications. The culture course is being run by a private agency authorized by the Teachers Council, so they were very good at conveying the information, but could not answer questions.

This 15 credit course for non degree teachers was news to me, but the information came down from the TC., so it must have some validity. I did not ask questions about it, nor do I remember anyone else asking. I think most teachers who had to take the culture course in order to be legal already have at least a BA/BS, but it is worth exploring since it would provide an avenue for others who want to teach here legally.

Edited August 23, 2008 by mizzi39

[PeaceBlondie]

Have the details of the 15 credit hours ever been issued in Thai, English, or Slovene?

[mizzi39]

Have the details of the 15 credit hours ever been issued in Thai, English, or Slovene?

I wish I had the details PB. You know that all of this confusion comes from a lack of details provided or no details at all, so your guess is as good as mine!

[wangsuda]

Either way it beats having to do an entire degree to get legal.

There is something really wrong with this statement. Unfortunately, forum rules forbid me to go into further detail. Oh, what the heck! Let's legalize all the uneducated and make them teachers! Just what we need to drive down wages (who would pay my salary, when a degreeless person would work for 1/3 of it).

[TEFLMike]

I read this post and changes with interest.

I am currently having a mess of a time attempting to put this information, not only to schools, but also to language centres. It will just not be accepted that we were correct in our assumptions. I am referring to the article a team wrote recently in the Bangkok Post. The article was correct and absolutely perfect, in every way.

I have to get back to Thailand, as I love teaching, and no, it is not easy.

Mike

[Rionoir]

Either way it beats having to do an entire degree to get legal.

There is something really wrong with this statement. Unfortunately, forum rules forbid me to go into further detail. Oh, what the heck! Let's legalize all the uneducated and make them teachers! Just what we need to drive down wages (who would pay my salary, when a degreeless person would work for 1/3 of it).

LoL You're on the wrong forum wang... you must've mistyped Ajarn.

[mizzi39]

I read this post and changes with interest.

I am currently having a mess of a time attempting to put this information, not only to schools, but also to language centres. It will just not be accepted that we were correct in our assumptions. I am referring to the article a team wrote recently in the Bangkok Post. The article was correct and absolutely perfect, in every way.

I have to get back to Thailand, as I love teaching, and no, it is not easy.

Mike

Hello, TEFLMike, What did the article pertain to? and what assumptions are you refering to?

I know that this topic of non-degree teachers always ends in a heated debate. I feel almost indifferent about the whole issue. I have a BA in counseling which has nothing to do with teaching English at all especially L2, but here I am! I really enjoy teaching and have a very good relationship with both Ss and faculty.

So what makes a good teacher? Do you really need "a degree" in the LOS to teach English? Hmm.....................

[MaiPenLai]

I hope this is true but it is my understanding that no one has been issued a teachers license to date. As with all things Thai.... and a quote from the Zen Master "We will see...."

[TEFLMike]

I read this post and changes with interest.

I am currently having a mess of a time attempting to put this information, not only to schools, but also to language centres. It will just not be accepted that we were correct in our assumptions. I am referring to the article a team wrote recently in the Bangkok Post. The article was correct and absolutely perfect, in every way.

I have to get back to Thailand, as I love teaching, and no, it is not easy.

Mike

Hello, TEFLMike, What did the article pertain to? and what assumptions are you refering to?

I know that this topic of non-degree teachers always ends in a heated debate. I feel almost indifferent about the whole issue. I have a BA in counseling which has nothing to do with teaching English at all especially L2, but here I am! I really enjoy teaching and have a very good relationship with both Ss and faculty.

So what makes a good teacher? Do you really need "a degree" in the LOS to teach English? Hmm.....................

The article was in the Horizons Supplement of the Bangkok Post a few weeks ago. Namely 'A Polite Manifesto' Written by a team of teachers. It was very well written and explained quite a few things relating to teaching in Thailand and the new rules. The method 3 was also mentioned in the same article. Has somone at the Ministry of Educaton actuallr read it and made note? It may appear has though someone has.

Edited August 28, 2008 by TEFLMike

[Ijustwannateach]

Unfortunately, there is a double meaning of "teacher" as it applies to all discussions related to teaching in Thailand. One of those meanings is "a TEFLer," or "teacher of English as a foreign language." The other is the more traditional primary or secondary subject teacher. One of the problems in discussions of qualifications related to teaching in Thailand is that those who make statements about "qualification A is only suitable for employment B" is that persons who make such statements are rarely specific as to which of these meanings of "teacher" they pertain. That makes it almost impossible to have non-inflammatory discussions about what qualifications a "teacher" in general should have, because such statements will nearly always be wrong for at least one of the meanings of "teacher."

I know this explanation may not be satisfactory; however, I have attempted to keep the teaching "community" here as broad as possible for as long as possible.

On the issue of teacher's licenses: without gross political change in Thailand, they were never going to be something that wasn't negotiable, given enough cash. However, the non-degreed teachers are looking at salaries that are low enough without their agencies, etc., taking out the cut that makes "smoothing" the paperwork possible- and that's really the only way it's possible for them to get the proper paperwork for most of their teachers.

[mopenyang]

The "double meaning" of "teacher" point is a very good one and something that does confuse issues here and sometimes makes discussions impossible. Another area along the same lines is the use of "international school" as one must define the term very closely. I've found the easiest way to do this is to examine accreditation and teacher salaries.

[Scott]

I find this interesting in that we applied for a TL for a guy who had previous teaching experience and a 3 year degree. Turned down. The paper work was sent back and we were told he must have a Bachelor's Degree.

[mopenyang]

I find this interesting in that we applied for a TL for a guy who had previous teaching experience and a 3 year degree. Turned down. The paper work was sent back and we were told he must have a Bachelor's Degree.

How does the 3-year degree diploma read? "Bachelor?" If not, I can see it being turned down.

[PeaceBlondie]

Not off topic, I get the idea that in some native speaking countries, it only takes three full years of year-round attendance to receive a bachelor's. Because American school years are only 9 months long, most students who go straight through an undergraduate program take the summers off and get a degree in four years. But it is a bachelor's degree. What do you get after 3 years if it is not a bachelor's? My daughter usually went to summer school en route to her BA in education and science, but one summer she took an off-campus course in baking cakes and cookies. She still bakes great cookies.

[christinefjensen]

From Ajarn.com (link on home page)

"Applicant Type 3 - Method 4

For any teachers possessing a High School Diploma (or less) but NO Bachelor Degree.

People in this category must possess / obtain and/or complete the following:

1) A letter from the school you currently teach at -

a) stating how long you have been teaching there.

signed by The Principal.

c) stating that the school does not have the budget to hire qualified teachers, as they demand a much higher salary.

d) stating that you are a fantastic teacher and the world as we know it would simply stop spinning if the school lost you, so please, please. please (with sugar on top) give this foreign teacher a teachers licence.

Whether or not the Teachers Council does or does not grant you a teachers licence will be entirely up to them. Even if they do, and before they do, you will STILL have to complete the 20-hour 'Foreign Teacher Thai Culture Training Program' and you must have completed this course BEFORE you send the letter from your school to The Teachers Council."

Letter from the Director/principal has been a common method for schools to obtain work permits for degree-less teachers for many years. It now appears the same is true of the Teacher Licence.

I know quite a few degree-less teachers working in Chiang Mai with work permits (Still a lot working without as well). Not just government schools but also private schools as well. One of them is our premier-on-the-run's old college.

The common sentiment of many old hands on this board and others is doom, gloom and the end of the world is nigh unless you have a BEd. Well that's not the situation in my province. Nothing has changed.

(Potentially stupid) Questions: 1 What's a BEd, 2 what kind of degree are we talking about, specifically a teaching degree or just a university degree? Take me, I'm educated to Postgraduate level. But it's not a teaching degree, it's English & Drama, and Performance. Are humanities degrees like these useful in this context?

[Martian]

From Ajarn.com (link on home page)

"Applicant Type 3 - Method 4

For any teachers possessing a High School Diploma (or less) but NO Bachelor Degree.

People in this category must possess / obtain and/or complete the following:

1) A letter from the school you currently teach at -

a) stating how long you have been teaching there.

signed by The Principal.

c) stating that the school does not have the budget to hire qualified teachers, as they demand a much higher salary.

d) stating that you are a fantastic teacher and the world as we know it would simply stop spinning if the school lost you, so please, please. please (with sugar on top) give this foreign teacher a teachers licence.

Whether or not the Teachers Council does or does not grant you a teachers licence will be entirely up to them. Even if they do, and before they do, you will STILL have to complete the 20-hour 'Foreign Teacher Thai Culture Training Program' and you must have completed this course BEFORE you send the letter from your school to The Teachers Council."

Letter from the Director/principal has been a common method for schools to obtain work permits for degree-less teachers for many years. It now appears the same is true of the Teacher Licence.

I know quite a few degree-less teachers working in Chiang Mai with work permits (Still a lot working without as well). Not just government schools but also private schools as well. One of them is our premier-on-the-run's old college.

The common sentiment of many old hands on this board and others is doom, gloom and the end of the world is nigh unless you have a BEd. Well that's not the situation in my province. Nothing has changed.

(Potentially stupid) Questions: 1 What's a BEd, 2 what kind of degree are we talking about, specifically a teaching degree or just a university degree? Take me, I'm educated to Postgraduate level. But it's not a teaching degree, it's English & Drama, and Performance. Are humanities degrees like these useful in this context?

BEd is Bachelor in Education degree.

There are basically 3 levels of consideration for teachers going forward:

1. Someone with Bachelor (or higher) of Ed is basically in control of their own destiny (as much as one can be in Thailand).

2. Someone with a Bachelor Degree in anything other than Ed has their foot in the door but must complete some continuing training, possibly up to a year.

3. Someone with no undergraduate degree is really going to find it difficult but not impossible to find a teaching position, and if so, lower salary.

Tefl training:

For #1, probably a waste of time and money.

For #2 will help with teaching theory, provide practice, help with securing a job and help with getting work permit, although not required.

For #3 probably a must to have any consideration for a teaching position or to obtain a work permit (if at all possible).

This is my GENERAL take on the Teaching in Thailand situation if the proposed teacher requirements are adopted AND enforced in all provinces.

Regards,

Martian

[wangsuda]

And someone with a bachelor's or higher in any subject PLUS a teaching certificate from their home county (US credential, PGCE, DipEd, etc) has it made in the shade!

[Wrong Turn]

Have the details of the 15 credit hours ever been issued in Thai, English, or Slovene?

I'd like additional details if possible.

Sorry if I missed a thread or post about this.

But....

How long does the course take? Couple of days?

Where do you have to travel to take it?

How much do you have to pay?

How long is it good for?

[PeaceBlondie]

This old chestnut "15 credit hours of educational courses" has been floating around the Thai pond for over five years. I once offered a sizable award for a certified copy of such pondscum, before the TCT reared its head. No takers. Nobody knows if they are semester hours, quarter hours of academic credits, Slovakian kumquat credits, or 15 hours in a Thai massage parlor. Mizzi wrote in post #3, "It is my understanding that non degree teachers must complete a 15 credit (education) course, plus TLT, and culture course in order to qualify for the TL and WP." In the USA, that would be five courses of education theory, philosophy, curriculum development, measurement, classroom management, school law, etc. In fact, it would be more courses than that, to be fully certified in the home country. A credit hour is one hour every week, in the classroom under a professor, for about 18 weeks. Or, 15 hours of massage by an old lady in Nakhon Sawan.

[otherstuff1957]

15 credit hours (is it actually 15 or 19?) is basically a 1 year course - it's roughly the equivalent of a Graduate Diploma in Education.

It's currently offered by various Rajapats in Bangkok and maybe elsewhere, but the TCT is being very cagey about verifying which courses are accepted and which are not.

Cost is about 60,000baht or more.

The course is good forever, but whether its worth anything outside of Thailand is another question.

Edited September 5, 2008 by otherstuff1957

[Ijustwannateach]

Considering the reports we're hearing of the appalling 'quality' of the teacher's "culture" courses on offer by TCT-affiliated fee-farms, I would very much doubt whatever courses being offered have any non-bureaucratic use *within* Thailand either.

And, as we've repeatedly stated, there haven't been ANY statements by the TCT confirming definitely, assuredly, cross-our-hearts-and-hope-to-die, that ANY qualifications IN or OUTSIDE Thailand will absolutely, certainly, predictably be considered "acceptable"- including, as far as I am aware, any of those offered by the Rajhabats, etc. So "trust" them if you like.

[PeaceBlondie]

And even if the permanent minister/secretary of the MOE or the TCT signed in blood a definite promise to live in poverty forever if it were not true, look at the expense of getting a full year of study in all those subjects. 60K of tuition and fees is bandied about as the cost, but the hidden fees make it much more. Then there are the lost hours not earning private lessons, transport costs, books, etc. And for what? To barely qualify for the new minimum? No, no. Pay even more for a real PGCE or higher DEGREE.

[texasfarang]

Okay I know I am opening a dangerous can of worms, but perhaps not, if one of the 15 hour course costs 60k and a proper Med in TEFL costs 80k at Chula why aren't people flocking for that...I am just asking because I am taking a year off from the LOS to work in China (where they seem to not mind my degree from an American Top 100 university) so I can earn enough money to go and study at Chula and then teach in LOS again....To think I gave up a Uni job so I could work out in the countryside to give those kids a fighting chance only to find out it would cost 3 months salary (erm not including the culture course, somtam license, and auspicous day supplemental charge...) to do it

[PeaceBlondie]

Okay, so I am just an ignorant old man up in Northern Thailand, unfamiliar with Chula and Bangkok. But at least one of those one-year courses (taking all the courses needed to be fully certified by TCU) costs even more than 60K, plus you lose your weekends for a year. Not worth it, unless the worst case scenarios come true, in which case TEFL in Thailand would cease to exist as we have known it, legally.