Hydroponic Nutrients

[kloghead]

Edited October 21, 2008 by kloghead

[Smithson]

I've got an EC meter but am having trouble reading it. I've attached a pic below. The setting is one "EC withKCI temperature coefficient" and the reading is 205 (no decimal points there). This is the reading from tap water at work, I got similar readings from the tap water at home, but a little lower.

- Can someone help me understand the reading?

- To check the EC from coir, so I just run water through it and check the water?

- I understand for tomatoes the EC should be 1.5 to 3. The readings on the meter are always in the 100's, so I'm a little confused.

[rice555]

Hello Smithson, the back of my meter has a multi-scale conversion chart, as close as your numbers are, it should be: 1. EC 0.4 2. CF 4 3. KCLppmx50 200 4.ppmx65 260 5. 442ppmx75 300.

Most of what I see reading, it's EC and some CF, I no nothing about the others. I bought mine here and it's a CF as thats what they had, no choice but easy to do the decimal point.

rice555

[Smithson]

Thanks, this meter doesn't have a conversion chart, there isn't one on the web site either. I'll pop into ACK and see if they can help.

[kloghead]

Here you go guys. The bottom is blurred but if you're in that range the plants are prob dead/dying anyway

[Smithson]

Here you go guys. The bottom is blurred but if you're in that range the plants are prob dead/dying anyway

Thanks klog, I found similar guides on websites of other brands of EC, trouble my readings in the 100's, so I'm not sure were it fits in. I was guessing it would need to be 10x and found out I was right when I returned to ACK.

However it seems there's a problem with the meter I bought, the EC readings and thermometer readings were wrong. If any of you guys get together it might be worthwhile comparing readings on your meters. At ACK they were looking at 3 meters and got the following readings:

3

3.45

3.75 (mine)

[kloghead]

I had so much grief with the hobby meters I finally broke down and shelled out the $$$ for a pro Hanna model 98129. Best $125 I've ever spent.

Well, sort of...

[joeycano]

I bought a BlueLab - Truncheon Nutrient Meter from Fresh Garden in Bangkok on Suk Soi 11. It is a duel EC and PPM meter. It cost me about $125.00 or so. I bought this meter with advice from Rice555 as he suggested staying away from purchasing a hobby meter due to reliability issues. I have not done much testing with it yet but will begin as I soon will need to make 1/2 strength nutrient for my seedlings.

[Smithson]

Here is the one I bought, http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/com100.html

The price was B3,700. It seems to be the best handheld meter this company makes. What do ppl think?

ACK recalibrated it for me and showed me it reading correctly in the solution. They claimed there wasn't a problem with the thermometer, although there had been earlier. An incorrect thermometer would affect the EC. I was thinking of buying a cheap thermometer to check it.

[kloghead]

Smithson I think your meter is auto-compensating for the temperature (true EC displayed because it knows the temp). It appears identical to one of the Milwaukee brand meters which are good units. Maybe it's just "re-branded", I don't know.

That Bleulab is a workhorse and you got a super price. I would have gotten that one but I like the convenience of the Hanna combo (EC and Ph together.

[joeycano]

kloghead,

I've heard of the duel EC / PH meters but know little about them. What do you think of it. Works well???

[kloghead]

It's definitely not a toy like those $25 meters on Ebay. Easy to operate, rugged design and auto-calibration:) Hanna in Bangkok wants ~$190... no way when they retail for around $120-$130 elsewhere. PM me if you want a store in USA that ships them to Thailand

[Smithson]

Smithson I think your meter is auto-compensating for the temperature (true EC displayed because it knows the temp). It appears identical to one of the Milwaukee brand meters which are good units. Maybe it's just "re-branded", I don't know.

The auto compensating sounds correct. The meter looks and feels solid, it has a 12 month guarantee. Starting to get a bit of growth now, will post pics soon

[joeycano]

I went to the Home show at Impact here in Bangkok. While I was strolling, I ran into a company selling:

-HydroBalls;

-HydroCubes;

-HydroCylinders

At first, I thought they were hydroton but realized it was a different product after asking them and examining the product much closely. Hydroballs look like hydroton but upon close examination are very different in texture. Has anyone that has used hydroballs give me a run down.

I'm posting this as I have seen post asking for a place that sells hydroballs.

There website is: http://www.mayom.net s

There Bangkok phone is: 08-6542-4269. They are also located at Chiangmai.

[Smithson]

Joey, thanks for the info. I rang the company and was quoted B700+ for 20 liters, with all variations of the product selling for the same price.

[rice555]

Hello Smithson, The cost may be 'cheaper', but are the products equal? Check out the link, go to the pdf link and down load, and compare. http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=HYD301#

On the same line as for the cheap coco husk, it may be 'LOW COST', but if you are doing more than a few plants, it's way too much work. That has become very real to me in my ongoing project trying to save a few Baht buying local coir. To much sifting, cleaning and less coir for the planting bags vs buying ready to use media.(after re-hydrating the briquettes/blocks/bails)

Penny wise - Pound foolish, I don't have to work to make ends meet, so if things go tits up, I'm still enjoying what I'm doing, but I want it to work right, not just in the ballpark. Or as we use to say at work, 'who sees it at 30,000 feet?'

rice555

[Smithson]

Hello Smithson, The cost may be 'cheaper', but are the products equal? Check out the link, go to the pdf link and down load, and compare. http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=HYD301#

On the same line as for the cheap coco husk, it may be 'LOW COST', but if you are doing more than a few plants, it's way too much work. That has become very real to me in my ongoing project trying to save a few Baht buying local coir. To much sifting, cleaning and less coir for the planting bags vs buying ready to use media.(after re-hydrating the briquettes/blocks/bails)

Penny wise - Pound foolish, I don't have to work to make ends meet, so if things go tits up, I'm still enjoying what I'm doing, but I want it to work right, not just in the ballpark. Or as we use to say at work, 'who sees it at 30,000 feet?'

rice555

Hi Rice, actually I was just posting the info on the expanded clay for others, I'm not really interested.

Regarding the coco, the stuff I've got lately seems good. It doesn't come in chunks but large pieces with very open fibres, similar to rockwool. It's the inner husk, without any of the thick outer shell. It drains much quicker, but the pieces are too large for pots - I'm using plastic tubs, the type they mix concrete with.

[rice555]

Hello kloghead, Smithson, this should be the link to the JP field trials on hydro in KK with different media. I don't know if the full report goes into the buffering effect of rice hulls. I haven't reread the article, sort of busy trying to get things done.

rice555

http://ss.jircas.affrc.go.jp/english/publi...30/30-02-09.pdf

[ferryb]

I've read quite a few threads on this forum but have not found one particularly discussing the various (1) types and (2) proper use of nutrients in hydroponic gardening in Thailand. I thought to ask this question as I noticed that there are quite a bit master gardener types who post on this forum.

I am new at this and have just began to purchase the equipment needed for hydroponic gardening at my Bangkok home:

- Tomatoes;

- Hot Peppers;

- Culinary Herbs;

- Melons; &

- Cucumbers.

I have seen that there are the following kinds of nutrients out there but unsure of there proper use:

- Nutrient Solution Part A;

- Nutrient Solution Part B; &

- Micronutes

I would particularly like to know:

- What types of nutrients you would recommend for my gardening;

- What types or brands of nutrients to avoid;

- Proper use of nutrients in Thailand;

- Any techniques when using nutrients in Thailand;

- When to switch nutrients in the plants growth cycle;

- Who is supplying the best nutrients in BKK;

- About your hydroponic garding experiences in Thailand

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

jc

hi joeycano, i am new here and interested in hydroponics. like to know where i can find the best and if possible the cheapest adresses for nutients and gear for my small hydro garden

thanks

ferryb

[rice555]

Hello ferryb, try this link as it should cover most of the main sources of pre-made stock, A&B for 1 to 100 mix. Most places will ship if you aren't close to the store. What are you growing? And welcome to the farming forum.

rice555

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Hydroponic-F...ng-t152056.html

[Smithson]

Below are some pics of my hydro system. This is a 'flood and drain' - water is pumped from the tank to the bottom of the beds and then overflows through top pipes. After 15 min the pump switches off and the water drains back to the tank, drawing oxygen to the roots.

Here's some additional info and questions:

- I'm running to pump every two hours during the day and twice thru the night.

- Media is coco coir

- EC is about 3.5, is it worthwhile raising it a bit?

- The tomatoes are 8-9 weeks old and have begun to flower. When should I switch from grow to flower nutrients?

- Plants are unshaded and appear fine. The receive full sun from 9 am until 3pm. Is it advisable to shade them when fruit appears to prevent damage/burning?

Edited November 26, 2008 by Smithson

[rice555]

Hello Smithson, I think you answered your own question about changing nutes in the info you gave. That's some setup. I hope you don't have the mesh filter still on your pump? The best way is to filter the nutes before the get back into the reservoir(an old shirt works).

What kind of tomatoes are they, and was that transplant age?

I envy you having tomatoes growing now, I've been doing only peppers, and that's been keeping me too busy.

rice555

[Smithson]

Actually, I'm not using any filter, the nutes drain back through the pump so it's difficult. The coco husks I'm using is the soft inner part. It's not dust or cubes, just large pieces. I like this media, it seems to have very similar properties to rockwool - being sponge-like it drains quickly, but then retains a high level of moisture for a long time. If the power cut off the plants would manage fine for a day (maybe even two) without watering.

The dates are taken from when they first sprouted, not transplant date, so growth has been good. There is another set of plants not pictured. They are two weeks younger but almost the same size, these had a perfect life, completely stress free and transplanted at exactly the right time.

These are Romas, there is a couple of Beefsteaks but they are not doing nearly so well. The weather in Bkk is nice, it was 25 this morning when I checked the EC. Looking forward to some fresh pasta sauces in around Xmas time.

The set up is quite simple, I've never done flood and drain before, but decided to go with the simplest system I could find. This biggest draw back is the need for a large tank and lots of nutes to ensure the beds are completely flooded. But this is OK, because I can easily switch to a spray/drip system and add more growbeds.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Smithson

[Smithson]

Just a few questions:

- Can anyone tell me where to get sweet basil seeds and chelated iron?

- Any ideas for the next crop? It'll be too hot for tomatoes and pretty much anything else. I was thinking of cateloupe and cucumbers, but would welcome suggestions?

- Is anyone mixing their own nutes? How difficult is it and do you save any cash as opposed to buying them from Wesco?

[rice555]

Hello Smithson, basil seed maybe JJ or KU garden center. Iorn chelate did you call Wesco?

Tomatoes grow in the heat, it can be a pain, but you should look for a "heat set" verity, most all the Thai seed co's have them. You can find a list of the co's on the Seed Quest site on the 'white pages' link, in fact it covers most of the world.

Eggplant, peppers and summer squash, all these seed can be had in BKK at C-T in Chinatown.

Can you make a fruit cake from scratch? A pound cake is too easy of a question. I've posted the chems to use and if you have a gram scale, a plastic bucket and a stick to stir, you can make it.

If you buy the Wesco 10K L. kit, you beat the other places by more than 50%, if all you have growing is 20-30 plants, stick with the other places. If you buy bulk chem's from Wesco or where ever, you will save more, but you have to weigh and mix things.

These guys also sell bulk nutes: http://www.datt.co.th/ They are the greenhouse hydro growers of the "Take Me Home Brand", which The Mall and other up market stores sell. They have some verities of Dutch seed, they are in CM and Pac Chong. I'm waiting to hear back from the guy when he gets back to PC as he has my order of 3,000 vine clips.

rice555

ps, you can grow what you see in the local markets, it's more fun to see if you can grow something that's not.

Oh, the pound cake is a no brainer, it's a pound of each to make the cake.

[jandtaa]

fertiliser salts convertor

ec convertor

HowToHydroponics.pdf

some useful tools + a couple of pdf's the "how to" is a good guide for beginners

[Smithson]

fertiliser salts convertor

ec convertor

HowToHydroponics.pdf

some useful tools + a couple of pdf's the "how to" is a good guide for beginners

Thanks for the info, the How To book is excellent.

My tomatoes are suffering from blossom end rot. To tackle this I've increased waterings, changed the nutrient and flushed the beds with water to remove salt build up. I shall also put some shade cloth up.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[rice555]

Hello Smithson, you have cut all the BER fruit off? I've had it a few times on a few fruit, I bump up the calcium nitrate up for one tank and backt to normal if signs of it are gone.

I just read this on line:

"Foliar applications of calcium, which are often advocated, are of little value because of poor absorption and movement to fruit where it is needed."

Being hydro grown, you can add CN to your nutes. Not more than a 10% increase for a tank full and see if the signs go a way.

Some other reading a long the same lines.

rice555

http://www.thegardenhelper.com/cgi-bin/ubb...ic/68/2670.html

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hy...7552524000.html

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Solanum_lycopersicum

PS, why the shade cloth? It's winter here!

[Smithson]

Hi Rice,

Thanks for the info, just had a quick glance through one of the threads and noticed two things:

BER is more common in early fruit - this is encouraging.

BER is more common in paste varieties. I have Romas and Beefsteak, so far I've only had problems with the Romas.

Regarding the shadecloth. High temps make it difficult for the plants to absorb calcium, something to do with calcium being delivered slowly and not being able to keep up with the requirements when temps are high. It may be winter here, but in Bkk the midday sun is still very hot.

BER is caused by too much or not enough moisture. Any idea how to know the right balance?

[Bpraim1]

I have been importing my nutes from the us for a year or so now. I use General Hydropinic, Maxi grow & Maxi bloom. No problem with customs, always marked tax exempt. I bring in about 7kgs at a time. I order them through an Ebay store.

I hate the two part crap here, add some wait add some more.

I have used a+b from Ban Sai hydro and from ACK. And have from better results with maxi.

I am paying about 700bt kg all in price.

Grow is 10-5-14

Bloom is 5-15-14

I have been use'n this to grow Tomato's, Peppers, Zuchinni, Kale, Spinich, Pak Choy, Cucumbers, Spagetti Squash & Giant Punpkins. All with great growth.

I am useing two systems to grow

One is in 2 1/2" pvc 4 metre long 5 pipes in group, with a recirculatiing system tank and pump one end return line other." Kale, Tomato's, Pak Choy, Spinich, and some other leafies the wife likes.

Second is in blue bins with holes cut in lid and pots filled with coconut hair I have chopped up. Zuchinni , Cucumbers, Tomato's.

Squash & Pumpkins i have moved to soil as I have run out of room in my greenhouse.