Ignored By Thais At Work

[dumball]

maybe your problem is that you stare at the women. i have seen many farang doing this. they dont speak thai so they just spend the entire meal starring up and down at every woman at the table - trust me, its obvious and makes you look bad.

There you go again , steryotyping instead of facing up to reality , that is life accepted by the other people , accept your fact of life , "they 'do not want to interact with you socialy , you must be an absolute bore to them .

[F1fanatic]

Grow up people - they do not wish to genuinely inteact with socially inferior 'falang'!

Obviously there are exceptions - but at the end of the day 'falangs' mean money and nothing else.

Thais who have been educated abroad know us better and (hopefully?) feel otherwise, but apart from that, give up and accept it!

[dumball]

Grow up people - they do not wish to genuinely inteact with socially inferior 'falang'!

Obviously there are exceptions - but at the end of the day 'falangs' mean money and nothing else.

Thais who have been educated abroad know us better and (hopefully?) feel otherwise, but apart from that, give up and accept it!

Hurrah , very well said , the first couple of days should have made that fact obvious , how thick is the skin of a rhinocerous ?

[lifeisrandom]

maybe your problem is that you stare at the women. i have seen many farang doing this. they dont speak thai so they just spend the entire meal starring up and down at every woman at the table - trust me, its obvious and makes you look bad.

There you go again , steryotyping instead of facing up to reality , that is life accepted by the other people , accept your fact of life , "they 'do not want to interact with you socialy , you must be an absolute bore to them .

i can only speculate because Thais are eager to socialize with me therefore i tend to think its something wrong with YOU not them

[long]

even you speck fluent in thai, the problem will still happen the same, if they all can speak in english, and dun want chat with you, the only reason is, you are not their gang. i think everybody do have this experience, some people when you 1st meet, you will have many topic can talk, but some people you just not really want to chat with him and select keep quite . as for me, i facing the same problem with you, but honestly, i also felt uncomfortable when i having lunch with them, so after a few lunch time, i decide i better take my lunch alone, that make me felt more confortable and relax on my lunch time..but that doent mean i make a bad relationship with them..

cheers

[bkkjames]

maybe your problem is that you stare at the women. i have seen many farang doing this. they dont speak thai so they just spend the entire meal starring up and down at every woman at the table - trust me, its obvious and makes you look bad.

There you go again , steryotyping instead of facing up to reality , that is life accepted by the other people , accept your fact of life , "they 'do not want to interact with you socialy , you must be an absolute bore to them .

i can only speculate because Thais are eager to socialize with me therefore i tend to think its something wrong with YOU not them

Locals eager to socialise with you? Don't suppose you are gay by chance?

[Tinkelbell]

How time had changed (in this case, for worse).

That was not the Thai I had grown up with. Recalling the time in the '70 when I was working in the headquarter of police department ( the big building across with Erawan Hotel in those days). Our office head was Major Pow Sarasin ( the police chief was Pol.Gen. Prasert Rujirawong), we used to get quite a bit of those American experts from USOM unit to train our marine police and helicopter police.

Our unit treated those technician advisor farangs highly. It was known to every one in our work place to make these farangs feel welcome . In my time the word 'farang' was used exclusively refering to the Westerners only. Other foreigners was called ' kone-taang-chart' = people from other countries.

We would included these farangs to lunch, dinner, party or outthings cos it best way to show our hospitality by giving them to interact with our culture.

Thais (from where I'm from) consider it is rude to ignore coworkers, friends or acquantants (any person that you know but don't care to talk to), and even less gracious for not making effort to speak English ( in this situation where they can speak English and knowing the OP's Thai is limited.)

Sorry OP, not all the Thais behave poorly like that. Next time you might find yourself in a more friendly atmosphere.

Good luck in your search.

[mr_hippo]

Cast your minds back to your childhood - you say to your Mum, "I'm just going out to play football with my friends." and your Mum tells you to take your younger brother/sister with you. Your reply is "Ahh but Mum, do I have to?" but you take him/her with you. Do they join the football game with you or do you virtually igmore them?

Now just substitute 'Mum' with 'the boss', 'you' with 'Thai co-workers' and 'younger brother' with 'farang'. Same play but with different actors!

[Heng]

[groovyc]

Very interesting thread..and some equally interesting responses. I wish I started it 2yrs ago when I was trying hard to cope with simillar issues.

Personally, I find my situation pretty well explained in this post:

It is something I've found to be widespread in Thailand, and very rude IMHO. Though i am 99.99% sure it is not intended to be rude.

I have the same problem, even after years of highlighting the issue, with my wife and her friends who speak pretty good English.

English is not my home language, so my take on it is that I speak it as common ground for communication, not that the Thai have to speak in my language, it is not arrogance on my part. When in 'my country' everybody speaks English when my wife is present, to me it is common courtesy. Otherwise she would feel excluded. But back in Thailand, they continue the habit of only speaking Thai when I am present. I now minimize these sessions.

The Thai seem not to have any concern at all whether someone feels excluded. Again, not because of rudeness, simply because it doesn't cross their mind. There is no social concern for anyone other than Thai. A result of a closed society I'd think.

If I was you, there is no way I would continue having lunch with them. It takes two to Tango.

I wish you luck in your efforts. But don't expect success.

I believe there are several things we need to consider:

1. The issue of being left out itself.

2. The reason thais act like that.

3. Whether its "rude" for them to be doing so.

4. How common it is elsewhere in the world.

5. How do we (the ignored) cope with it.

I will try to touch on 3. and 4. on this post.

I personally feel its pretty rude the way they do it (to the extent of blaming myself for chosing to be here), but that is based on my values and background isn't it? I (and my buddies) usually try to pick the best common language when we're in a group and ALWAYS try to keep anyone not fluent in it updated on whats going on when we don't have a common language to choose from. Hanging out in groups of people from 5-10 different countries was common in my undergrad years, but language was the least of our problems. That being so, I inevitably feel what the thais do is inconsiderate to say the least, but thats again MY judgement based on MY values isn't it?

Now, I am not trying to condone anything here. It's just that this attitude seems to prevail elsewhere in Asia and even Europe where the first language is not English to varying extents (check out the post in this thread about a Dutch family in the UK) with a possible correlation with the degree of familiarity with English at a societal level. I myself am Asian and not a so-called native English speaker, but I do talk to some of my friends at home regularly in English (thus obviously don't have a problem switching to English if the need arises back at home) for one thing, and also do feel the need to include everyone. But, then again, I could think of a few people at home that may act similar to the thais, at least to a certain extent.

Personally, I'm just glad I'm not one of them!

About other places where this could happen: In Asia, China might be up on the list. Japan surely would be expected to top the list, but the reasons wouldn't be comparable as they don't speak English in most cases. I've lived/worked for the japs for ages, but as I spoke to them in japanese, it's not easy for me to compare with Thailand. I guess its a bit better there though, as they are generally a bit more considerate. Then again, my thai wife totally hates japan mostly because few people had the gut to talk to her at her lab while she was studying there!

well, I guess the conclusion is that we will find inconsiderate people everywhere, sometimes more when we cross cultures. we just need to live with it if we chose to stay there.

[ray23]

Work Hmm isn't that a place you go on someone elses schedule and your are paid to perform a task?

Life on the other hand includes work, but it is not all of it.

Me I really wouldn't worry about it, it's your break as well, go with the people you enjoy being with.

Hurting thier feelings they are polite people they may be very relieved in reality that they don't have to deal wih you. But they won't act like it.

Life is to short just do the best you can to enjoy the parts you can. Don't force yourself to try to please others all the time. Take care of yourself and friends will come. That's all the Thai's are doing, nohting personal in it.

[sylviex]

That was not the Thai I had grown up with. Recalling the time in the '70 when I was working in the headquarter of police department ( the big building across with Erawan Hotel in those days). Our office head was Major Pow Sarasin ( the police chief was Pol.Gen. Prasert Rujirawong), we used to get quite a bit of those American experts from USOM unit to train our marine police and helicopter police.

Our unit treated those technician advisor farangs highly. It was known to every one in our work place to make these farangs feel welcome . In my time the word 'farang' was used exclusively refering to the Westerners only. Other foreigners was called ' kone-taang-chart' = people from other countries.

We would included these farangs to lunch, dinner, party or outthings cos it best way to show our hospitality by giving them to interact with our culture.

Thais (from where I'm from) consider it is rude to ignore coworkers, friends or acquantants (any person that you know but don't care to talk to), and even less gracious for not making effort to speak English ( in this situation where they can speak English and knowing the OP's Thai is limited.)

Interesting comments from Tinkelbell. Could it be that the way foreign colleagues are treated has changed over time ? But you'd expect younger generations to be more interested in interacting with people from other cultures, not less, no ?

(Forget if OP mentioned his age group & that of his colleagues -- youngish, I think ?)

[OxfordWill]

I find it like this when comparing Bangkok to Jakarta. The way Tinkerbell talks about things in the 70s here is how I would describe things in the last few years in Jakarta regarding local attitudes to westerners. I guess its a matter of "development" or "modernisation" or "westernisation", with Jakarta being slightly "behind" Bangkok.

[sylviex]

I find it like this when comparing Bangkok to Jakarta. The way Tinkerbell talks about things in the 70s here is how I would describe things in the last few years in Jakarta regarding local attitudes to westerners. I guess its a matter of "development" or "modernisation" or "westernisation", with Jakarta being slightly "behind" Bangkok.

If I understand you correctly, Oxford Will, you mean that Thais are becoming a little blase about foreigners ?

I know that if someone from Australia were to join a (healthy)work team in another area of Australia, effort would be extended to make that person feel not only welcomed but genuinely included. Same for someone from another country. This is done through politeness firstly but also a genuine interest in getting to know people from other places & with other experiences. I believe I can state this to be a general rule for that culture, at least in my own experience. This interest in other cultures appears to be often lacking in Asia. I am aware of the assorted cultural values that make this so. I guess, in the end, the idea is that adherance to the values of your "own" group & maintenance of those bonds brings more advantages (or perceived advantages).

[OxfordWill]

Yes I would agree with your assessments. And I think blase is a good choice of word, as it implies at some point, there was great excitement in various ways which has now been lost. Again, all from the Thai-centric viewpoint, a matter of "what we Thais can get out of this", perhaps.

[Maigo6]

Yes I would agree with your assessments. And I think blase is a good choice of word, as it implies at some point, there was great excitement in various ways which has now been lost. Again, all from the Thai-centric viewpoint, a matter of "what we Thais can get out of this", perhaps.

Will. what a load of <deleted>..................................

My god, do you really think the way you do, or are you just incredibly unhappy and broke you can't leave Thailand.

Thing is, I guess I was always lucky, I could virtually choose my workplace destination, I'm very happy I'm not so unhappy.

[Maigo6]

Then again, I always tried to ignore idiots, why do you excpect Thai people to be any different ?

[lifeisrandom]

maybe your problem is that you stare at the women. i have seen many farang doing this. they dont speak thai so they just spend the entire meal starring up and down at every woman at the table - trust me, its obvious and makes you look bad.

There you go again , steryotyping instead of facing up to reality , that is life accepted by the other people , accept your fact of life , "they 'do not want to interact with you socialy , you must be an absolute bore to them .

i can only speculate because Thais are eager to socialize with me therefore i tend to think its something wrong with YOU not them

Locals eager to socialise with you? Don't suppose you are gay by chance?

Even if I was, you are not my type.

[F1fanatic]

I really can't believe how blind some people can be!

At the end of the day, they don't actually like us (in general), get on with it, accept it, and try to change their minds about us individually.

Let's face it, why should they like us?! Their women flock to any old (falang) man who's going because he's got more money than they can hope to have!

Christ, the old saying about the yanks of 'overpaid, oversexed and over here' has got nothing on the falangs here!!

[appleman]

Most foreigners in Thailand have no idea how shy, embarrased, and afraid to make a mistake the majority of Thais are. One of my students told me recently that when she sees blond hair and blue eyes she gets terrified and can't even think of any words to say. And her English is excellent.

Think about this: If you were having lunch at a corporate cafeteria in California with your friends and two Thais joined you, would you stop your conversation about baseball, or Paris Hilton, or the latest movie or TV show, and talk to them in Thai? You would expect your Thai colleagues in America to speak to you in English. Why wouldn't you expect your Thai colleagues here to feel the same way as you would? Unless you are really interesting and have very important things to say, I don't see why one would have to interrupt a pleasant lunch with friends to switch languages when they feel so uncomfortable doing so.

I have worked with Thais for many years and have no problem talking with them - in Thai. Try it and you will see how much fun they can be at the lunch table.

[Bowery99]

1. Learning Thai is the answer, unless you are going home. I have been here a year and a half and only understand maybe 25% of what is said, but even that helps. Speaking much, seems to be beyond my abilities at this point but, I at least try. I suck at learning another language and am a bit t-keit about doing so. If you are good at another SEA should make it easier.

2. I felt the same way in Korea, but could see that my co-workers who spoke Korean fit in more.

3. I know I am not KhunThai, I like many of them but don't expect to "fit in". I didn't really fit in that well in the west either sometimes, oh frigging well. Sabai sabai.....

4. I am a teacher and frankly last year I was making 4 or 5 times what my co-workers made, but I do hold a degree that cost 20xs what they might have and the market here pays that. I don't feel guilty about it because they might resent it, but I can understand their resentment. It is not my choice that my country has some of the worlds best schools and people from other countries flock there to get an education, it is just the way it is. So in all honesty, I AM worth more than they are at work. Also I went to school longer than most of them.

There is another factor to be dealt with that Thais will refuse to understand, it costs me more to live here than it does them, I think at least 2xs as much (sorry about my sub-rant there). They will never understand it and will exclude us (unless we are marrying one).

5. You should just get over it, so they don't talk to you much. Haven't you ever worked anywhere in the west where they had a clique and you didn't fit in? If it threatens your job somehow, I can understand (or if you have no idea that it does, but think maybe......)

6. If there are women there in your group, there maybe some stuff going on in terms of gossip or maybe even attraction (about you) that you really have no idea about, this could also be true in a western situation. Here though a 25 yr old through to old maid status, here is truly scary for everyone involved.

7. You knowingly socialize with the lower caste (plus you don't even have a caste) so, Thais will never understand that fully. You are not in the west, the sun raises here it doesn't set, they play by different rules.

[JetsetBkk]

... What I find completely strange is that none of these people - my colleagues that is - have made an attempt to talk to us farangs. ..

So Thais at work ignore you? Think yourself lucky. Some posters get completely ignored at home.

[OxfordWill]

Yes I would agree with your assessments. And I think blase is a good choice of word, as it implies at some point, there was great excitement in various ways which has now been lost. Again, all from the Thai-centric viewpoint, a matter of "what we Thais can get out of this", perhaps.

Will. what a load of <deleted>..................................

My god, do you really think the way you do, or are you just incredibly unhappy and broke you can't leave Thailand.

Thing is, I guess I was always lucky, I could virtually choose my workplace destination, I'm very happy I'm not so unhappy.

Im luckier - I can actually choose my work destination. Instead of this ad hominem nonsense why not attack my argument? Right now you're just making me smile, but I'd love to be grinning.

[jackyseymour]

I really can't believe how blind some people can be!

At the end of the day, they don't actually like us (in general), get on with it, accept it, and try to change their minds about us individually.

Let's face it, why should they like us?! Their women flock to any old (falang) man who's going because he's got more money than they can hope to have!

Christ, the old saying about the yanks of 'overpaid, oversexed and over here' has got nothing on the falangs here!!

Give it up F1. You're getting to be a broken record.

[Twiggy44]

Rak

true, true...

most of the time i don't care about them. i've just never experienced this kind of anti-social socialising before anywhere in the world. i'm also curious to know if anyone else has experienced this.

Ulysses...

good idea. i may finally ask today, though i don't think it will change anything. i've spoken to them all on individual an individual basis, and i know their english skills are very good. i will approach with a smile, of course

UUmmmm don't worry you are not alone...I know what you felt..I have same experience as you. And what is the most painful part is I am a Thai..but can not speak our language fluently..but i did tried very hard to learn this and speak to my co teachers in a broken Thai grammar.I have same experience during lunch break too...sometimes it seems like I am not around them although we are in same long table. But I do not care I let it be..eat with out a words and stand up if I am done with my lunch...as simple as that...

[jackyseymour]

Rak

true, true...

most of the time i don't care about them. i've just never experienced this kind of anti-social socialising before anywhere in the world. i'm also curious to know if anyone else has experienced this.

Ulysses...

good idea. i may finally ask today, though i don't think it will change anything. i've spoken to them all on individual an individual basis, and i know their english skills are very good. i will approach with a smile, of course

UUmmmm don't worry you are not alone...I know what you felt..I have same experience as you. And what is the most painful part is I am a Thai..but can not speak our language fluently..but i did tried very hard to learn this and speak to my co teachers in a broken Thai grammar.I have same experience during lunch break too...sometimes it seems like I am not around them although we are in same long table. But I do not care I let it be..eat with out a words and stand up if I am done with my lunch...as simple as that...

Seeeeeee?

[DegenFarang]

i think you should have sex with one of the girls, this will help everything.

[jdinasia]

I really can't believe how blind some people can be!

At the end of the day, they don't actually like us (in general), get on with it, accept it, and try to change their minds about us individually.

Let's face it, why should they like us?! Their women flock to any old (falang) man who's going because he's got more money than they can hope to have!

Christ, the old saying about the yanks of 'overpaid, oversexed and over here' has got nothing on the falangs here!!

LOL .. I hate to tell you this, but it really IS just you they don't like

[RY12]

80% of Thais are myopic, self-absorbed, hedonistic, lascivious, arrogant and primitive little creatures that of course aren't going to show the OP any social respect ...but don't forget, those adjectives describe the majority of people in any other country in the world as well . Fact is, most people are dumb$hits in any population, I don't know why so many farangs expect Thais to be any different... I personally wouldn't want to hang out at a big table of random co-workers in the US, -besides our job, we have nothing in common. IMHO, Thais are especially more childish and mothered than other populations, so having the independence to eat alone is a profound fear to them, so the OP's co-workers are mearly saving him from that. I've had that happen to me countless times, getting invited then getting ignored. No big deal, it happens to other Thais as well (they rant about it as well).

[puipuitom]

When in 'my country' everybody speaks English when my wife is present, to me it is common courtesy. Otherwise she would feel excluded. But back in Thailand, they continue the habit of only speaking Thai when I am present. I now minimize these sessions.

The Thai seem not to have any concern at all whether someone feels excluded. Again, not because of rudeness, simply because it doesn't cross their mind. There is no social concern for anyone other than Thai. A result of a closed society I'd think.

I do business with Thailand since 1978 and in my own company since 1995. Visited Thailand quite often, and came to exactly the same conculsion. Put two Thais together, and they will communicate in Thai only, whoever might be present. Even at business lunches or dinners.

When I am in Europe, when Thais are present, all try to speak English. And for most this is NOT their native language, but as courtesy.

The Thais donot understand this. I told several times to my Thai business partner, but ...

Now I behave the same: start to ready a newspaper of magazine, or put a microphone in my ear too listen to music or better : a humoristic story, so I laugh several times. Even in the middle of a business dinner. You are astonished how quick they understand.

But a next dinner... same story: chat in Thai only. Of course they expect the FARANG to take up the bill.