PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[koosdeboer]

From the Bangkokpost

Among the true believers

CHADAMAS CHINMANEEVONG

Samak Sundaravej is never at a loss for words. ''PAD? They are just a bunch of gangsters, a street mob,'' says the fiery prime minister.

But walk among the thousands of people who pledge allegiance to the PAD and one sees a more nuanced picture, with middle-aged office workers cheering alongside elderly housewives, while wealthy socialites chat with singers and actors.

Why have these people come to sleep on the streets, endure dust and rain, fierce winds and poor sanitation under the PAD banner? Why are they willing to risk life and limb in an idealistic, but possibly futile attempt to overthrow an elected government?

When rank-and-file members listen to PAD leaders' briefings on how to cope with tear gas or pressure from the plastic shields of riot police, what are they thinking?

A 56-year-old motorcycle garage owner, who gave his name as Pongsakorn, said he was ready to die and spill blood for the country.

''This would be honour for my family. If the solution is violence, I believe that people here are ready,'' he said seriously. ''Today, bad guys gain encouragement because good people sit around. So, we must help together.''

Mr Pongsakorn journeyed from Chanthaburi with his friends. They have slept in tents on the sidewalk for three days. All watched ASTV, PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul's TV station, for months before coming to Bangkok last week.

Another PAD sympathiser, a female retiree, said plainly that she felt she was fighting for the future of Thailand.

''I am here because I am fighting for the country, not for Khun Sondhi or Khun Chamlong [srimuang] like many people said,'' she says, her Gucci sunglasses askew as she runs along with the crowd. ''It's too bad there are so few students today. I think idealism is missing among today's younger generation.''

Late Thursday, tension within PAD was running high, as many expected a full-force push by the security forces to be inevitable.

Stern-faced men guarded each doorway to guard against undercover security forces infiltrating the crowd. Female volunteers, mostly elderly, were gathered together to form human chains to guard the seven doorways, hoping that even the police would still abide by Thai norms of propriety.

Outside Government House, the temporary shelters erected for PAD lie mostly empty, with the only occupants a number of elderly women exhausted from their vigil during the long afternoon.

Mr Samak may call PAD illegal or worse, but he should not underestimate the depth of their passion.

One young student at Silapakorn University runs up to the crowd.

''This is the fourth time I have joined with PAD,'' she says. ''I'm here today alone, but actually, I think all these people are my friends. We have the same objective.''

[hammered]

So has anyone got an idea of how this increasingly insane situation will end bearing in mind that both sides have tacit support across the country numbering in the millions? This support cannot just be turned off.

Persoanlly, I cant see past some form of national unity government for set period to resolve all issues although it looks unlikely. Guess we just await something very bad to happen although exactly what we dont know.

Get a coin and make sure it has at least 10 sides.

If there is a clash, an SoE will follow. After that, use the coin.

Now that sounds pretty grim.

[sriracha john]

from TOC

Civil Court Throws out PM's Office Request to Vacate PAD from Govt House

UPDATE : 1 September 2008

The Civil court has ruled to dismiss the PM's Office's request for an order to enforce the court's earlier injunction to vacate PAD protesters from Government House even when the Appeals Court has accepted the PAD's request for a judicial review.

The Civil Court has granted an earlier rquest made by the Prime Minister's Office for an injunction to have the PAD vacate Government House. The PAD responded by filing for an appeal with the Appeals Court, who has consequently accepted the petition.

Now the plentiff, the PM's Office, has less than 15 days to submit counter arguments to the court to fight the PAD's quest for an appeal.

While the Appeals Court is reviewing the case, the PAD is legally allowed to remain at the Government House.

Thai justice at work!

Thaksin would be the first to tell you that "Thai justice" can often be delayed... he dragged out investigations and legal cases for months and months and months and months with his delays.

Thaksin is in England and the country is in chaos. A poor choice of comparisons IMHO.

It's been in chaos for the past couple of years... it's poetic justice that that what he was able to exploit in turn comes back full cycle to work against him and his proxies. It's a fact of just about any country's legal system that makes up for the slooooooow processing of the appeal on the PM's 2-year prison conviction, which has certainly been a lot longer than 15 days.

Edited September 1, 2008 by sriracha john

[Samuian]

It's what Thais people say in case of disagreement: "we just do not understand each other". They tell that to avoid any conflict and this is a strategy I respect.

BUT it's wrong, we are not so different and we are not so stupid.

We understand perfectly and we just disagree.

That's it.

The "East is soooooooo mysterious / difficult to understand for westerners" is a legend.

I wholeheartedly agree on this one - and a neat, ready to use, anytime escape seat or foxhole!

[Thai at Heart]

May as well cut the country in two and have done with it.

[sriracha john]

Among the true believers

Samak Sundaravej is never at a loss for words. ''PAD? They are just a bunch of gangsters, a street mob,'' says the fiery prime minister.

But walk among the thousands of people who pledge allegiance to the PAD and one sees a more nuanced picture, with middle-aged office workers cheering alongside elderly housewives, while wealthy socialites chat with singers and actors.

Why have these people come to sleep on the streets, endure dust and rain, fierce winds and poor sanitation under the PAD banner? Why are they willing to risk life and limb * for 200 baht a day plus free meals according to "many" * in an idealistic, but possibly futile attempt to overthrow an elected government?

When rank-and-file members listen to PAD leaders' briefings on how to cope with tear gas or pressure from the plastic shields of riot police, what are they thinking?

A 56-year-old motorcycle garage owner, who gave his name as Pongsakorn, said he was ready to die and spill blood for the country. *200 baht and the unrivaled som tam is well worth it*

''This would be honour for my family. If the solution is violence, I believe that people here are ready,'' he said seriously. ''Today, bad guys gain encouragement because good people sit around. So, we must help together.''

Mr Pongsakorn journeyed from Chanthaburi with his friends. They have slept in tents on the sidewalk for three days. All watched ASTV, PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul's TV station, for months before coming to Bangkok last week.

Another PAD sympathiser, a female retiree, said plainly that she felt she was fighting for the future of Thailand. *that and 2 red ones plus some terrific free phad thai*

''I am here because I am fighting for the country, not for Khun Sondhi or Khun Chamlong [srimuang] like many people said,'' she says, her Gucci sunglasses askew as she runs along with the crowd. ''It's too bad there are so few students today. I think idealism is missing among today's younger generation.''

Late Thursday, tension within PAD was running high, as many expected a full-force push by the security forces to be inevitable.

Stern-faced men guarded each doorway to guard against undercover security forces infiltrating the crowd. Female volunteers, mostly elderly, were gathered together to form human chains to guard the seven doorways, hoping that even the police would still abide by Thai norms of propriety.

Outside Government House, the temporary shelters erected for PAD lie mostly empty, with the only occupants a number of elderly women exhausted from their vigil during the long afternoon.

Mr Samak may call PAD illegal or worse, but he should not underestimate the depth of their passion.

One young student at Silapakorn University runs up to the crowd.

''This is the fourth time I have joined with PAD,'' she says. ''I'm here today alone, but actually, I think all these people are my friends. We have the same objective.''

terrific article...

Edited September 1, 2008 by sriracha john

[sylviex]

Pallop believes military will step in if two groups of protesters clash

Pallop Pinmanee, former advisor to the Internal Security Operations Command, expressed confidence Monday that the military would step in if police fail to prevent clashes between pro and anti-government demonstrators.

"If police fail to control the situation, the military will have to keep security. The military will not allow people to clash one another throughout the country," Pallop said.

The Nation

Edited September 1, 2008 by sylviex

[sriracha john]

May as well cut the country in two and have done with it.

proudly chanted at the Chonburi PAD rally.... "We don't have any PPP in Chonburi"

[clausewitz]

The Nation

Protesters erect barbe wires at the exits of the Government House to prevent raids following mobilising of pro-government protesters.//Nanthasit Nitmatha

I don't remember seeing razor wire for sale at my local hardware store.

I wonder where they got it.

It's available all over Thailand. I've even been to a temple fair at a Wat that had Concertina wire strung out to preserve an area...

Barbed wire and Concertina wire are used in thousands of areas .... almost invariably in extremely unsafe conditions.

Welcome to Thailand.

In 25 years coming to Thailand, including living here for 3, I can't remember ever seeing razorwire used anywhere. I know it is popluar with PAD but do you know another place where it is now being used?

[ando]

from TOC

Civil Court Throws out PM's Office Request to Vacate PAD from Govt House

UPDATE : 1 September 2008

The Civil court has ruled to dismiss the PM's Office's request for an order to enforce the court's earlier injunction to vacate PAD protesters from Government House even when the Appeals Court has accepted the PAD's request for a judicial review.

The Civil Court has granted an earlier rquest made by the Prime Minister's Office for an injunction to have the PAD vacate Government House. The PAD responded by filing for an appeal with the Appeals Court, who has consequently accepted the petition.

Now the plentiff, the PM's Office, has less than 15 days to submit counter arguments to the court to fight the PAD's quest for an appeal.

While the Appeals Court is reviewing the case, the PAD is legally allowed to remain at the Government House.

Thai justice at work!

Thaksin would be the first to tell you that "Thai justice" can often be delayed... he dragged out investigations and legal cases for months and months and months and months with his delays.

Thaksin is in England and the country is in chaos. A poor choice of comparisons IMHO.

It's been in chaos for the past couple of years... it's poetic justice that that what he was able to exploit in turn comes back full cycle to work against him and his proxies. It's a fact of just about any country's legal system that makes up for the slooooooow processing of the appeal on the PM's 2-year prison conviction, which has certainly been a lot longer than 15 days.

Unfortunately while "poetic justice " may make a few people feel smug at the current crisis, it doesn't help the country much. Thaksin was removed under force of arms by soldiers armed with tanks and guns prepared to use deadly force. Based on the tit for tat is fair theory, --- should PAD be removed by the same means?

[ando]

May as well cut the country in two and have done with it.

proudly chanted at the Chonburi PAD rally.... "We don't have any PPP in Chonburi"

I am sure that was meant as a threat rather than a statement of truth.

[clausewitz]

Unfortunately while "poetic justice " may make a few people feel smug at the current crisis, it doesn't help the country much. Thaksin was removed under force of arms by soldiers armed with tanks and guns prepared to use deadly force. Based on the tit for tat is fair theory, --- should PAD be removed by the same means?

The two situations are completely different. Thaksin was elected with a huge majority, even more than the first time, hence the need for soldiers and guns to remove him.

PAD is a tiny minority led by failed politicians, bankrupt businessmen and looney cult leaders - it follows their will must be respected and devotion given to their ideas and actions.

Edited September 1, 2008 by clausewitz

[koosdeboer]

The Nation

Protesters erect barbe wires at the exits of the Government House to prevent raids following mobilising of pro-government protesters.//Nanthasit Nitmatha

I don't remember seeing razor wire for sale at my local hardware store.

I wonder where they got it.

It's available all over Thailand. I've even been to a temple fair at a Wat that had Concertina wire strung out to preserve an area...

Barbed wire and Concertina wire are used in thousands of areas .... almost invariably in extremely unsafe conditions.

Welcome to Thailand.

In 25 years coming to Thailand, including living here for 3, I can't remember ever seeing razorwire used anywhere. I know it is popluar with PAD but do you know another place where it is now being used?

I use it on a fence around the land my wife bought together with the neighbours

[ovenman]

It's available all over Thailand. I've even been to a temple fair at a Wat that had Concertina wire strung out to preserve an area...

Barbed wire and Concertina wire are used in thousands of areas .... almost invariably in extremely unsafe conditions.

In 25 years coming to Thailand, including living here for 3, I can't remember ever seeing razorwire used anywhere. I know it is popluar with PAD but do you know another place where it is now being used?

I saw it used at a military post in Songkhla (town) last week.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

This is not a time for hardliners. Can some people just tone down their rhetoric? PAD is not legitimate, but it represents a very real and very active and very determined slice of the country. Whatever you think of them, they are not going anywhere, so why not enter into a dialogue with them rather than just say and do what PM Samak does...which is nothing of any use to anyone, but pouring scorn. If you refuse to accept the voice of PAD as does the PM, then we are stuck here for a long time. They are unreasonable, but why not at least try to reason with them? And yes, what a wonderful idea about cutting the country in half. Such enlightenened thought. It is no loss to anyone if all sides bow down. Surely ending bloodshed has GOT to be the priority, so what if someone feels as though they have lost face. Its not about anyone winning or losing anymore, it is about the bigger picture.

[hammered]

May as well cut the country in two and have done with it.

proudly chanted at the Chonburi PAD rally.... "We don't have any PPP in Chonburi"

I am sure that was meant as a threat rather than a statement of truth.

It just refers to all the MPs being Democrats, which was a shock considering the mafia backed Chart Thai. I know a number of PPP people in Chonburi. The PPP arent that popular but there isnt the threat of violence that you may get in some areas. There is a lot of avoiding talking politcs in public actually. After the coup there was even some anti-coup stuff done locally. I just hope Chonburi remains calm as I have feeeling vioence of group on group could spread away from Bangkok this time and if you are in the minoity it could go hard on you in some places. That is why those in power need to sort out what is going happen before they lose the chance to.

[sriracha john]

The Nation

Protesters erect barbe wires at the exits of the Government House to prevent raids following mobilising of pro-government protesters.//Nanthasit Nitmatha

I don't remember seeing razor wire for sale at my local hardware store.

I wonder where they got it.

It's available all over Thailand. I've even been to a temple fair at a Wat that had Concertina wire strung out to preserve an area...

Barbed wire and Concertina wire are used in thousands of areas .... almost invariably in extremely unsafe conditions.

Welcome to Thailand.

In 25 years coming to Thailand, including living here for 3, I can't remember ever seeing razorwire used anywhere. I know it is popluar with PAD but do you know another place where it is now being used?

If this is the first time they've used it, just how "popular" is it with PAD?

Otherwise, Concertina wire was used at Wat Bang Phra, to protect a scrap yard in Nong Kham, and rather horrifyingly at a Kid's Day fair in Phanat Nikhom, to just name a few places within the nearby area.

[hammered]

This is not a time for hardliners. Can some people just tone down their rhetoric? PAD is not legitimate, but it represents a very real and very active and very determined slice of the country. Whatever you think of them, they are not going anywhere, so why not enter into a dialogue with them rather than just say and do what PM Samak does...which is nothing of any use to anyone, but pouring scorn. If you refuse to accept the voice of PAD as does the PM, then we are stuck here for a long time. They are unreasonable, but why not at least try to reason with them? And yes, what a wonderful idea about cutting the country in half. Such enlightenened thought. It is no loss to anyone if all sides bow down. Surely ending bloodshed has GOT to be the priority, so what if someone feels as though they have lost face. Its not about anyone winning or losing anymore, it is about the bigger picture.

I tend to sympathise with your idea but I would rather appeals were made to the supporters of the PAD by a political initiative. I think the leaders now have to face their court cases in the way Thaksin does. It is diffcult now to see a peaceful way out but not quite impossible. In a day or two it may well be.

[geovalin]

Need your feed back.

Today after shower I mistakenly chose a black shirt instead the usual Monday yellow one.

Well, I did not to change before to go outside and I went in the streets shamefully with my black shirt (farang + non yellow dressed = too much).

To my BIG surprise, all these people who was yellow last week was plain dressed today.

Last week, at least 80% vs 5 % today.

Same at my kids school (private with mostly THAI airways staff children, people who was supposed to be PAD supporters), not more than 10 / 20% of yellow (except the school teachers of course).

My area is Saphan Kwai, Vipawadee.

Did you see the same thing where you do live?

Of course, it's not prevention against HM the beloved King, on my opinion it's just to distinguish themselves from PAD.

Edited September 1, 2008 by geovalin

[sriracha john]

May as well cut the country in two and have done with it.

proudly chanted at the Chonburi PAD rally.... "We don't have any PPP in Chonburi"

I am sure that was meant as a threat rather than a statement of truth.

Click on the map and see how many red dots you find in Chonburi.

[Artisi]

And I do wonder how much the senior union officials are getting paid to organize this action?

I eagerly await posts attesting to the "fact" their girlfriend's second cousin is fairly certain that the senior union officials are receiving 200 baht a day plus free meals.

I guess like myself, you can now read a posting without looking at who the author is and take an educated guess that it will be from 1 - 2 or 3 well know posters - don't you think that this is insightful thinking is amazing or is it just that you get the same thing over and over again.

[hammered]

Need your feed back.

Today after shower I mistakenly chose a black shirt instead the usual Monday yellow one.

Well, I did not to change before to go outside and I went in the streets shamefully with my black shirt (farang + non yellow dressed = too much).

To my BIG surprise, all these people who was yellow last week was plain dressed today.

Last week, at least 80% vs 5 % today.

Same at my kids school (private with mostly THAI airways staff children, people who was supposed to be PAD supporters), not more than 10 / 20% of yellow (except the school teachers of course).

My area is Saphan Kwai, Vipawadee.

Did you see the same thing where you do live?

Of course, it's not prevention against HM the beloved King, OMY it's just to distinguish themselves from PAD.

If people are worried abotu violence they wont wear the colour associated with either group. Most people would rather be safe than make statements.

[blaze]

From TOC

Senior Military Office Denies Involvement in Bombing Near PAD Rally Site

UPDATE : 1 September 2008

"เสธ.แดง"หวั่นเกิดปะทะ อาจเป็นเหตุ"ทหาร"แทรกแซง

A senior military officer has denied any involvement with the recent explosion near PAD's Makawan Bridge rally site. He also reveals there is currently an effort to get as many people from the provinces as possible to come to Bangkok to confront the PAD.

Maj-General Kattiya Sawas-diphol says this could very well lead to an outbreak of violence and subsequently forces the military to interfere.

Maj-Gen Kattiya has also denied any involvement with the bombing that took place at around 1 a.m. this morning.

A bomb went off near the Makawan Bridge but no one was injured.

I don't think we're getting the full story here- why would a military spokesman (and not a- oh- say disgruntled postal employee) feel the NEED to say- "I didn't do it'?

In other words- who has suggested he did- and on what grounds?

[ando]

And I do wonder how much the senior union officials are getting paid to organize this action?

I eagerly await posts attesting to the "fact" their girlfriend's second cousin is fairly certain that the senior union officials are receiving 200 baht a day plus free meals.

You may "eagerly await" as long as you like. I am sure most experienced Thai watchers and expats would expect that money changed hands. Proving it is a different matter.

My own suspicions are that the union officials persuaded the rank and file to take paid leave rather than having to split the pay off by reimbursing their wages if they went on a genuine strike. Perhaps they might have been offered a little bonus for their effort? But of course most PAD supporters would believe that the unions were above that sort of thing in Thailand.

[blaze]

This is not a time for hardliners. Can some people just tone down their rhetoric? PAD is not legitimate, but it represents a very real and very active and very determined slice of the country. Whatever you think of them, they are not going anywhere, so why not enter into a dialogue with them rather than just say and do what PM Samak does...which is nothing of any use to anyone, but pouring scorn. If you refuse to accept the voice of PAD as does the PM, then we are stuck here for a long time. They are unreasonable, but why not at least try to reason with them? And yes, what a wonderful idea about cutting the country in half. Such enlightenened thought. It is no loss to anyone if all sides bow down. Surely ending bloodshed has GOT to be the priority, so what if someone feels as though they have lost face. Its not about anyone winning or losing anymore, it is about the bigger picture.

I personally (for what it's worth, probably not much) would be skeptical about trying to reach a compromise (short of the entire cabinet resigning) with the PAD. Their avowed goal is the overthrow of the government- in the minds of their leaders (I think- I don't know for sure of course) all possible avenues that could provide Thaksin with influence in the country must be sealed - permanantly. If it wasn't the government's plan to change the constitution- it would be something else- the government's policies re borders, the government's policy in the south, the governments influence on the media- even the governments influence in foreign and economic policy decisions- in short- the government.

Edited September 1, 2008 by blaze

[sriracha john]

And I do wonder how much the senior union officials are getting paid to organize this action?

I eagerly await posts attesting to the "fact" their girlfriend's second cousin is fairly certain that the senior union officials are receiving 200 baht a day plus free meals.

You may "eagerly await" as long as you like. I am sure most experienced Thai watchers and expats would expect that money changed hands. Proving it is a different matter.

My own suspicions are that the union officials persuaded the rank and file to take paid leave rather than having to split the pay off by reimbursing their wages if they went on a genuine strike. Perhaps they might have been offered a little bonus for their effort? But of course most PAD supporters would believe that the unions were above that sort of thing in Thailand.

The same as PAD detractors would throw out innuendo and aspersions without a shred of evidence, based on nothing but supposition.

Although Sao Jiang Mai certainly makes the point that hardlining is not solving anything and dialogue is desperately needed to cool things off.

[ando]

May as well cut the country in two and have done with it.

proudly chanted at the Chonburi PAD rally.... "We don't have any PPP in Chonburi"

I am sure that was meant as a threat rather than a statement of truth.

It just refers to all the MPs being Democrats, which was a shock considering the mafia backed Chart Thai. I know a number of PPP people in Chonburi. The PPP arent that popular but there isnt the threat of violence that you may get in some areas. There is a lot of avoiding talking politcs in public actually. After the coup there was even some anti-coup stuff done locally. I just hope Chonburi remains calm as I have feeeling vioence of group on group could spread away from Bangkok this time and if you are in the minoity it could go hard on you in some places. That is why those in power need to sort out what is going happen before they lose the chance to.

Point taken.

I have Thai in laws in Chonburi who are PPP supporters.

[blaze]

And I do wonder how much the senior union officials are getting paid to organize this action?

I eagerly await posts attesting to the "fact" their girlfriend's second cousin is fairly certain that the senior union officials are receiving 200 baht a day plus free meals.

You may "eagerly await" as long as you like. I am sure most experienced Thai watchers and expats would expect that money changed hands. Proving it is a different matter.

My own suspicions are that the union officials persuaded the rank and file to take paid leave rather than having to split the pay off by reimbursing their wages if they went on a genuine strike. Perhaps they might have been offered a little bonus for their effort? But of course most PAD supporters would believe that the unions were above that sort of thing in Thailand.

Please correct me if I'm wrong- are the unions that are striking not state employees- managed by the very beaurocrats that some of the more reactionary in the previous government wanted to see given a larger voice in government (ie, guaranteed places in the non-elected component of the senate) and sworn enemies of all things Thaksin?

Edited September 1, 2008 by blaze

[animatic]

This is not a time for hardliners. Can some people just tone down their rhetoric? PAD is not legitimate, but it represents a very real and very active and very determined slice of the country. Whatever you think of them, they are not going anywhere, so why not enter into a dialogue with them rather than just say and do what PM Samak does...which is nothing of any use to anyone, but pouring scorn. If you refuse to accept the voice of PAD as does the PM, then we are stuck here for a long time. They are unreasonable, but why not at least try to reason with them? And yes, what a wonderful idea about cutting the country in half. Such enlightenened thought. It is no loss to anyone if all sides bow down. Surely ending bloodshed has GOT to be the priority, so what if someone feels as though they have lost face. Its not about anyone winning or losing anymore, it is about the bigger picture.

I tend to sympathise with your idea but I would rather appeals were made to the supporters of the PAD by a political initiative. I think the leaders now have to face their court cases in the way Thaksin does. It is diffcult now to see a peaceful way out but not quite impossible. In a day or two it may well be.

Ah, yes if PAD leaders run off to England to escape justice, problem solved!

Unless they start controling others by Sondhi sending his money back to do it...

Irony trailing sarcasm by 2 meters.

[catmac]

Need your feed back.

Today after shower I mistakenly chose a black shirt instead the usual Monday yellow one.

Well, I did not to change before to go outside and I went in the streets shamefully with my black shirt (farang + non yellow dressed = too much).

To my BIG surprise, all these people who was yellow last week was plain dressed today.

Last week, at least 80% vs 5 % today.

Same at my kids school (private with mostly THAI airways staff children, people who was supposed to be PAD supporters), not more than 10 / 20% of yellow (except the school teachers of course).

My area is Saphan Kwai, Vipawadee.

Did you see the same thing where you do live?

Of course, it's not prevention against HM the beloved King, OMY it's just to distinguish themselves from PAD.

Got me thinking, Geovalin. My boyfriend usually wears a yellow shirt on Mondays, but this morning he pointedly chose a white one. I have to say that unlike the usual Monday sea of yellow, it was quite a mix of colours this morning. To be fair, though, there were very few red shirts on show, either.