PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[hammered]

Referendum on PAD interests Justice Minister

(BangkokPost.com) - Justice Minister and People Power party (PPP) deputy leader Sompong Amornwiwat said on Monday that holding a public referendum on the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD)’s seizure of Government House is an interesting option because the government also wants to know how the public think about the situation.

If 40 million out of 60 million Thais vote in support of the anti-government group’s action, the government would have to do something, Mr Sompong said.

On the proposal for the house dissolution, the minister said it is up to the decision of Prime Minister and Defence Minister Samak Sundaravej. He said the government, in the meantime, has to monitor the situation closely while trying to resolve it tenderly.

Meanwhile, Democrat party secretary-general Suthep Thuagsuban said his party was showing an honest and direct opinions and ideas at the special joint parliamentary session on Sunday.

Mr Suthep said the Democrat party wants the country to be peaceful, and its aim at the moment is not to administer the country. He said politicians at present need to take public sentiment into consideration, and the country would move forward, should the government stop being stubborn.

The Democrat secretary-general expressed satisfaction with Sunday’s parliamentary even though all of its objectives were not accomplished, but it was not a total failure.

Silly season. And I think he knows it by saying if 40 out of 60 million Thais.... The total electorate is not much more than 40 million;)

How long to organise a referendum too? We could have people dead by then. The courts could have ordered them out. They may have left of their own accord

Still the idea buys time if it gains traction and everybody seems to be playing for time now.

[ubonjoe]

More state enterprises threaten to strike

(BangkokPost.com) - The Confederation of State Enterprise Labour Union on Monday announced that about 200,000 workers at 43 state enterprises will jointly go on strike to protest against the government for allegedly using violent measures to disperse the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) supporters.

According to the confederation, 43 state enterprises will suspend their public utility and assistance operations all together on September 3 at 9am.

The confederation claimed that Prime Minister and Defence Minister Samak Sundaravej is damaging the democratic regime. In order to end the problem, the premier and his government have to resign from politics completely.

The confederation insisted its potential strike would not trouble the majority of the people.

[hammered]

What about people avoiding to wear yellow because they are worried DAAD who are now mobilizing and wearing red with their usual violent tactics could taking it out on people wearing yellow, identifying them ALL as PAD supporters?

Given that only about a thousand turned up for the anti-PAD rally, I think you can probably discount this theory - nevertheless, people may not want to "identify" themselves either way.

There are rumours of red-shirts descending on mass on Bangkok. It is probably paranoia and fear but safe is better than sorry.

[animatic]

Well there goes round one of the sympathetic union strikes

that the rumblings about strike breaking brought out, right on schedual.

Like clock work the powers that be chime in

and escalate things out of sheer thoughtlessness.

Well now we know who's paying for the PPP Mega-Graft projects

whomever they want to point at in the tax code.

They announced these at light speed when they got in,

hey boys rally round us we got the trough its FEEDING TIME!

Bet Dr. T. has investments that benefit handsomely from these new 'projects'.

Not the least is payments to coalition partners 'quiet bank accounts'

to keep support shored up. I don't imagine for a moment that they have found

ALL his tentacles yet. He no doubt was extending them and wrapping around for decades.

Billions go a long way to hiding millions for a rainy day. It's pouring lately.

Edited September 1, 2008 by animatic

[Artisi]

Any indication or bets on how long before samark tries the old toxin trick of assassination attempt - always a means to garner support from the true believers.

[ubonjoe]

No electrical cut-off: MEA Governor

Metropolitan Electricity Authority (MEA) Governor Pornthep Thanyapongchai insisted all MEA employees will not carry out activities that will cause troubles to the people.

Mr Pornthep assured members of the public that the MEA employees have common sense and a sense of responsibility, and they will not cut off electricity to voice their support for the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

People can call the MEA’s hotline at 1130 around the clock if they experience electrical irregularities, Mr Pornthep said.

The MEA is managing the distribution of electricity in Bangkok, Nonthaburi and Samut Prakarn.

[PaddyThai]

Interesting article from Reuters here

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssFinanci...lBrandChannel=0

[sriracha john]

This is not a time for hardliners. Can some people just tone down their rhetoric? PAD is not legitimate, but it represents a very real and very active and very determined slice of the country. Whatever you think of them, they are not going anywhere, so why not enter into a dialogue with them rather than just say and do what PM Samak does...which is nothing of any use to anyone, but pouring scorn. If you refuse to accept the voice of PAD as does the PM, then we are stuck here for a long time. They are unreasonable, but why not at least try to reason with them? And yes, what a wonderful idea about cutting the country in half. Such enlightenened thought. It is no loss to anyone if all sides bow down. Surely ending bloodshed has GOT to be the priority, so what if someone feels as though they have lost face. Its not about anyone winning or losing anymore, it is about the bigger picture.

I personally (for what it's worth, probably not much) would be skeptical about trying to reach a compromise (short of the entire cabinet resigning) with the PAD. Their avowed goal is the overthrow of the government- in the minds of their leaders (I think- I don't know for sure of course) all possible avenues that could provide Thaksin with influence in the country must be sealed - permanantly. If it wasn't the government's plan to change the constitution- it would be something else- the government's policies re borders, the government's policy in the south, the governments influence on the media- even the governments influence in foreign and economic policy decisions- in short- the government.

In other words give them and inch and they will take a mile.

I have stated my opinion previously that the goverment should not give in.

I even suggested the option of allowing the people to voice their desires in the form of a referendum.

I don't think a forced eviction from goverment house will occur.

So the best you can hope is that the strikes will end and then just let PAD have goverment house until they get tired and leave.

If the police had taken action the first day and isolated the group inside and not allowed in food and water and cut all utilities to the compound. This would of been over with already. With the PAD leaders locked up or on bail.

So now it has become a quagmire that will be very difficult to resolve,

At the first evening foreign press conference that was Samak's stated plan... the "starve 'em out" strategy.

He has, of course, since then changed his course of action about ten times.

[Old Man River]

I have Thai in laws in Chonburi who are PPP supporters.

But are they registered in Chonburi, or migrants.. As you know people's votes only count in the province where they're registered; Therefore places that have a lot of migrants (like Bangkok and Chonburi and Phuket), only the votes of the people who own (their main) property there count in elections.

Wrong. Voting laws only state that to vote in a constituency, you have to show a house registration for at least 90 days prior to the election.

A common misconception of the House Registration Book is that many think that it represents the title or ownership of the house. The House Registration Book is merely a document for registering the house (structure) and the name(s) written in the Book reflects the occupant(s) of the house, not the legal and beneficial owner.

[sriracha john]

All Quiet on the Western Front, maybe they are tired from the weekend

Or maybe they are sitting back and having a chuckle about the trains Ect.

Stocks in Thai Air dropped like a rock today.

Hitting the big boys in the wallet.

Wonder what the next week is really going to bring. It really doesn't look like the neeed to to do much more at this point.

The wild card those red bandanas.

or the red ties in Parliament.... albeit they are minimally less "wild"...

Red is all of a sudden fashionable...

Would just like to comment that at no time today did I encounter even one person wearing a red tie... that must mean that DAAD's popularity has dwindled to zero.

[Old Man River]

Referendum on PAD interests Justice Minister

(BangkokPost.com) - Justice Minister and People Power party (PPP) deputy leader Sompong Amornwiwat said on Monday that holding a public referendum on the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD)’s seizure of Government House is an interesting option because the government also wants to know how the public think about the situation.

If 40 million out of 60 million Thais vote in support of the anti-government group’s action, the government would have to do something, Mr Sompong said.

On the proposal for the house dissolution, the minister said it is up to the decision of Prime Minister and Defence Minister Samak Sundaravej. He said the government, in the meantime, has to monitor the situation closely while trying to resolve it tenderly.

Meanwhile, Democrat party secretary-general Suthep Thuagsuban said his party was showing an honest and direct opinions and ideas at the special joint parliamentary session on Sunday.

Mr Suthep said the Democrat party wants the country to be peaceful, and its aim at the moment is not to administer the country. He said politicians at present need to take public sentiment into consideration, and the country would move forward, should the government stop being stubborn.

The Democrat secretary-general expressed satisfaction with Sunday’s parliamentary even though all of its objectives were not accomplished, but it was not a total failure.

Silly season. And I think he knows it by saying if 40 out of 60 million Thais.... The total electorate is not much more than 40 million;)

How long to organise a referendum too? We could have people dead by then. The courts could have ordered them out. They may have left of their own accord

Still the idea buys time if it gains traction and everybody seems to be playing for time now.

At the last election, registered voters were approx. 45 million. For the PPP's Minister of Justice, I guess 40-60 million is close enough.

[hammered]

The budget bill is due for parliamentary approval soon according to the above mentioned Reuters article. That gives the PPP plus partners a pocketful of money for the next election. I wonder if that is critical in any of this.

Plus Man City being sold today reportedly for 150million pounds. What is the significance of that?

Lots going on.

[animatic]

No electrical cut-off: MEA Governor

Metropolitan Electricity Authority (MEA) Governor Pornthep Thanyapongchai insisted all MEA employees will not carry out activities that will cause troubles to the people.

Mr Pornthep assured members of the public that the MEA employees have common sense and a sense of responsibility, and they will not cut off electricity to voice their support for the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

People can call the MEA’s hotline at 1130 around the clock if they experience electrical irregularities, Mr Pornthep said.

The MEA is managing the distribution of electricity in Bangkok, Nonthaburi and Samut Prakarn.

LOL

11:30 Am Plus or minus 10 minutes

we'll wander by after lunch

11:30 Pm Plus or minus 10 minutes

We'll wander by after lunch

All other times phone off the hook.

That fits

[Old Man River]

Got me thinking, Geovalin. My boyfriend usually wears a yellow shirt on Mondays, but this morning he pointedly chose a white one. I have to say that unlike the usual Monday sea of yellow, it was quite a mix of colours this morning. To be fair, though, there were very few red shirts on show, either.

Strangely enough, I always wear red on Sunday - but yesterday I deliberately avoided red in case people mistook me for a member of DAAD.

Today, faced with the same decision over yellow, I decided that yellow was appropriate in keeping with the custom of wearing yellow to show support for the King, and also because I wasn't going to be anywhere near Government House or Parliament.

I thought your wife picked out your clothes.

[animatic]

Thaksin sells his Manchester City Club to Abu Dhabi

By The Nation

Fugitive prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has sold Manchester City to the Abu Dhabi United Group for Development and Investment.

Arabianbusiness online reported that a deal with current owner Thaksin completed on Sunday evening.

The online said Thaksin has helped bankroll a number of big-money transfers in the past but, with his assets currently frozen as he awaits trial in Thailand, doubts have been cast over his long-term future at the club.

The Abu Dhabi United Group will be represented on the club's board by Dr Sulaiman Al Fahim, chief executive of Hydra Properties.

Thaksin will be an honourary president with no administrative power.

"Our goal is very simple - to make Manchester City the biggest clup in the Premier League, and to begin with, to finish in the top four this season."

ADUG will be represented on the new board of Manchester City by Hydra Properties CEO Dr Sulaiman Al Fahim

Al Fahim, who led negotiations, confirmed on Monday the deal had been struck. He said,"We will release details later, but this is a great event for both the club and Abu Dhabi.

"Our goal is very simple - to make Manchester City the biggest club in the Premier League, and to begin with, to finish in the top four this season."

.Al Fahim stressed that the Group will solve all the club problems and clear any pending payments, and will comprehensively support the club by bringing in some of the best football players in the world.

It is understood that negotiations began three weeks ago, and were completed on Sunday night at Emirates Palace Hotel in Dubai.

Nothing against Dubai, but this is classic Thaksin.

Sells Thai satalite company to Singapore Chinese

Sells English football club to the Dubai Arabs

Both done secretly till the deal is done; fait accompli < {Maestro we DO use this in American english}

No consideration for the feelings of any other parties involved.

Hey it's just business SUCK IT UP!

Edited September 1, 2008 by animatic

[onethailand]

Got me thinking, Geovalin. My boyfriend usually wears a yellow shirt on Mondays, but this morning he pointedly chose a white one. I have to say that unlike the usual Monday sea of yellow, it was quite a mix of colours this morning. To be fair, though, there were very few red shirts on show, either.

Strangely enough, I always wear red on Sunday - but yesterday I deliberately avoided red in case people mistook me for a member of DAAD.

Today, faced with the same decision over yellow, I decided that yellow was appropriate in keeping with the custom of wearing yellow to show support for the King, and also because I wasn't going to be anywhere near Government House or Parliament.

I thought your wife picked out your clothes.

Ask her yourself She's usually at school around the time I wake up...

[sriracha john]

Any indication or bets on how long before samark tries the old toxin trick of assassination attempt - always a means to garner support from the true believers.

To prove, "I am NOT a proxy!!!"... he'll be more original.... perhaps a Fred Sanford "big one" heart attack??

[fidelio]

Need your feed back.

Today after shower I mistakenly chose a black shirt instead the usual Monday yellow one.

Well, I did not to change before to go outside and I went in the streets shamefully with my black shirt (farang + non yellow dressed = too much).

What are you afraid of ?

Thai people won't lynch you for not wearing a yellow shirt on Mondays.

[ubonjoe]

City police chief transferred

POST REPORTERS

Metropolitan Police chief Aswin Kwanmuang has been sidelined _ the first senior police officer to become a victim of the confrontation between the government and the People Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

National police chief Pol Gen Patcharawat Wongsuwan yesterday signed an order transferring him to an inactive post at the Royal Thai Police Office and appointed deputy police chief Jongrak Juthanont as acting Metropolitan Police chief.

The transfers take effect today.

A police source said Pol Lt-Gen Aswin was transferred because the government was unhappy that he had failed to abide by government policy and had not dispersed the PAD supporters.

A grim Pol Lt-Gen Aswin said he did not know why he was being moved, but said he was not discouraged by the untimely transfer. He will have to leave office at the end of the month before taking up his new post as an assistant national police chief next month.

Only hours before he was informed of his transfer, Pol Lt-Gen Aswin vowed to abide by a suggestion made by Her Royal Highness Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn, who said casualties from possible clashes between PAD supporters and police should be minimised.

The princess, in her capacity as executive vice-president of the Thai Red Cross Society, on Saturday instructed the Red Cross to keep doctors and rescue units on standby, ready to immediately treat any victims.

Pol Lt-Gen Aswin said police would control the situation and try to prevent any violence.

He was willing to accept any criticism for allowing the PAD's anti-government demonstrations to continue, but would not allow any bloodshed.

PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila said Pol Lt-Gen Aswin was quite friendly towards PAD supporters as he understood their right to voice their opinions.

However, the PAD sees Pol Gen Jongrak as someone trying too hard to please the Samak government, Mr Suriyasai said. He said the government wanted Pol Gen Jongrak as acting city police chief because they have already decided they will end the demonstration violently.

PAD supporters at Government House would camp there forever, or until Mr Samak resigns, Mr Suriyasai said.

[Journalist]

We don't have universal suffrage in Hong Kong.

One reason (among others) quoted is that we don't have a wide enough tax base.

That means that all those who don't pay tax might feel inclined naturally to vote for a party that takes care of them, and canes the wealthier for tax.

I cannot remember the last time I voted in an election - twenty years I suppose, yet I've paid a lot of tax !

[ubonjoe]

From the Bangkok article I just posted.

"A police source said Pol Lt-Gen Aswin was transferred because the government was unhappy that he had failed to abide by government policy and had not dispersed the PAD supporters. "

"PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila said Pol Lt-Gen Aswin was quite friendly towards PAD supporters as he understood their right to voice their opinions. "

Might answer the question as to why a lot of things that Samak said didn't occur. IE: The starve them out statement.

[Journalist]

One reason why the army might not want to intervene (or have a new period governing) is that they got their medium term procurement budgets sorted and approved before handing over to PPP. So to some extent Top Brass are sitting pretty.

[lordsux]

Convoy of about 14 ambulances and 6 or so full police coaches heading towards downtown Bangkok.

Could be nothing, but it sure looked pretty. Shame I was too slow with the cam.

[animatic]

Pol Lt-Gen Aswin is Samak's fall guy for not getting it done.

he did what he was told to do,

makes no difference he takes the fall for his department.

An underling who will lose face for an overlard... er over LORD

[i'll let the freudian slip stand.]

Back on point:

How old world feudal does THAT sound.

Why do we imagine PPP is a new breath of fresh air

for Thailand democratically,

when it just acts old world feudal anyway?

Edited September 1, 2008 by animatic

[sriracha john]

From the Bangkok article I just posted.

"A police source said Pol Lt-Gen Aswin was transferred because the government was unhappy that he had failed to abide by government policy and had not dispersed the PAD supporters. "

"PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila said Pol Lt-Gen Aswin was quite friendly towards PAD supporters as he understood their right to voice their opinions. "

Might answer the question as to why a lot of things that Samak said didn't occur. IE: The starve them out statement.

One would think that disobedience of direct orders, particularly from someone as forceful as Samak, would have resulted in immediate dismissal... not a week later.

[animatic]

One aspect of Thaksin selling Man City to deep pocket Dubai is

he has suddenly freed up a BIG PILE O MONEY

to fight for his bigger pile down here.

That makes this all even scarier.

[animatic]

From the Bangkok article I just posted.

"A police source said Pol Lt-Gen Aswin was transferred because the government was unhappy that he had failed to abide by government policy and had not dispersed the PAD supporters. "

"PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila said Pol Lt-Gen Aswin was quite friendly towards PAD supporters as he understood their right to voice their opinions. "

Might answer the question as to why a lot of things that Samak said didn't occur. IE: The starve them out statement.

One would think that disobedience of direct orders, particularly from someone as forceful as Samak, would have resulted in immediate dismissal... not a week later.

It equally could be a quiet word was had in the good general's ear from a higher source.

He is falling on is sword for... you know the rest.

[geovalin]

from Asia Sentinel

Giles Ji Ungpakorn

01 September 2008

Democracy and social justice get lost in the shuffle between the royalists and the pro-Thaksin forces

thai-coupFor the past two or more years, especially since the September 2006 coup, Thai society has been hypnotized into forgetting about the real social and political issues. Instead, the whole of society and most tragically, the social movements have been entranced by a fight between two factions of the Thai ruling class.

On the one side are the deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party, its successor, the Peoples Power Party and the government. Opposing them are a loose collection of authoritarian royalists comprising the People’s Alliance for Democracy, the pro-coup royalist military, the pro-coup judiciary and the Democrat Party. The authoritarian royalists are not a unified body. They only share a collective interest in wiping out Thaksin’s party.

The two sides mirror each other. Both are firmly in the camp of the Thai capitalist elite. They both are nationalistic and are prepared to abuse human rights. While the Thaksin government and Samak’s Peoples Power government support extrajudicial killings and a hard-line murderous position on the Muslim insurrection in the south, the opposing side cares little about such killings and counts the former Thai commando and assassin who took part in several coups and is called the butcher of Krue Sae Mosque, where Muslims were massacred, among its leadership.

Both factions are associated with people who have a record of corruption. It is common knowledge that all Thai politicians are engaged in corrupt practices, whether legal or illegal. The military have a long record of corruption and the 2006 junta were no exception. After the illegal coup in 2006, they appointed themselves to boards of state enterprises and forced through increased military spending.

Yet the courts have clearly been used to single out Thaksin’s faction on corruption and “abuse of power” charges. While Thaksin was still in power, the courts bent to his wishes. There is no justice in Thailand. The judiciary are not accountable to the electorate and always support the rich a powerful. In labour courts they always rule against trade unions. No jury system exists in Thailand.

The differences between the two factions are there too. While the Thaksin faction are committed to their strategy of winning power by elections, parliamentary democracy and money politics, the PAD and their friends are in favour of military coups, reducing the number of elected parliamentarians and senators and increasing the power of unelected bureaucrats and the army. The justification for this is the belief that the poor majority in the country are too stupid to be given the vote.

The PAD faction are also fanatical royalists. They want a new coup and were happy to whip up hatred of Cambodia and risk a war over an ancient Khmer temple. The PAD strategy, as outlined by Pipop Thongchai, a core leader of the party, is to create enough political chaos that institutions and parties are destroyed and a “new order” arises from the ashes. Needless to say, this new order will not be democratic nor committed to social justice and equality.

In terms of economic policy, the Thaksin faction try to use a dual-track strategy of mixing neo-liberalism with grassroots Keynesianism. They believe that the poor must not be left out and have a record of real pro-poor policies such as the Health Care Scheme. However, they are not remotely socialist and are against taxing the rich and building a Welfare State.

The PAD/Democrats/royalists are hard-line monetarists. They propose interest rate hikes to cut down spending on the poor and to squeeze wages. ///////a few words about HM, deleted ////// Income re-distribution is ruled out. That is why the poor have consistently voted for the Thaksin faction.

The major reason why democracy and social justice have fallen off the political agenda into the stinking canals of Bangkok is the total disarray of the social movements, NGO networks and trade unions. After the collapse of the Communist Party in the mid 1980s, the new slogan of the Peoples Movements was “the answer is in the villages”.

This was an NGO strategy to turn to rural development along single-issue lines. The slogan reflected a respect for villagers which contrasted greatly with the attitude of the government. Now the slogan of those People’s Movement networks supporting the PAD has changed to “the villagers are stupid and don’t deserve the vote!”, “the answer is with the military, courts and the king”.

Sections of the NGO-Coordinating Committee, some Thai staff in Focus on Global South, HIV+ networks, Friends of the People and some farmer groups have lined up to support the PAD and the demand to decrease democracy. The Railway Workers Union and the Thai Airways union have also shown support. The Rail union leaders have never campaigned for hundreds of rail employees who have been on temporary contracts without welfare for decades. The Thai Airways union has ignored military corruption in the airline and in the Airports Authority. Both unions have turned their backs on serious attacks on trade unions in the private sector and are only prepared to take action when people in high places give them the green light.

Other activists who cannot stand the PAD have allowed themselves to be pulled into supporting the government. This is just as bad as those supporting the PAD. Some have even cheered when the police tried to break up PAD protests.

The lack of independent class politics in the Thai Peoples’ Movement is a result of years of rejecting overall “politics” and “political organisation”. It is a result of the anarchistic ideas that were popular after the collapse of the Communist Party, a reaction to the party’s Stalinist authoritarianism. The problem is also a result of the “lobby politics” of NGOs. Neither strategy leads to building an independent position for the trade unions and social movements. They reject “representative democracy” but have no concrete democratic proposals to put in its place.

Even today, at this late hour, we can still build political independence. We must campaign for more democracy and more control of institutions from below. We must advocate a root and branch reform of the justice system, a reduction in the role of the military and the building of a welfare state through cuts in the military budget and progressive taxation of the rich.

Yet there are still those who say that we must take sides in the current elite dispute and leave such reforms until later. The problem with that is that the dispute will not be quickly settled and if it is settled on the terms of one or other elite grouping it will result in a smaller democratic space and less bargaining power for social movements.

[pumpuiman]

I got to watch Thai TV for half an hour this evening - haven't seen any golf clubs or violence. There were shots of people in black t-shirts arrested this morning, but I'd rather concur with Sondhi - they don't look like PAD supporters, more like thugs who were beating up people at Central World two years ago almost to the day.

Hopefully tomorrow's papers sort it out, for now it looks like early morning raid on NBT wasn't PAD's work at all.

"bump" of the below..

In Pad's history the leaders have ALWAYS talked down violence and such.

These people talk and disrupt traffic, and not much more than be a BIG thorn

in the current government's side. They have no history of violence,

only being the victims of violence against them.

Just because stupid people are doing stupid things doesn't mean dark forces are at work nor is there any evidence to support your wild conspiracy theory. IMHO.

Arrested today was Nitirat Sapsomboon....

(let google take it from there)

time for another bump

Bump....

PAD orders NBT to relay ASTV broadcast

The Nation

People's Alliance for Democracy Sondhi Limthongkul on Tuesday announced at the main rally site that the PAD had gained a complete control of the NBT station following a raid.

Sondhi ordered the state-run station to relay the broadcast of his ASTV, a satallite television station.

Inspite of the raid, the NBT management was trying to continue broadcasting by mobile units but this was disrupted at periodic intervals.

[RadioCityMike]

Democracy means that you can demonstrate without being afraid to go to jail (or worse).

Democracy means equal rights for everyone and not just for a small, rich, group

Democracy means the opportunity to think critically.

Democracy means the chance to be assertive.

Democracy means fair elections, a valid and reliable choice of government.

You really think that Thailand is a democracy?

Some of your points are flawed.

"Democracy means that you can demonstrate [legally] without being afraid to go to jail (or worse)." And does socialism not allow any of that same freedom?

"Democracy means equal rights for everyone and not just for a small, rich, group" This is a pipe dream, IMO.

"Democracy means the opportunity to think critically." There was much critical thinking under totalinarism.

"Democracy means the chance to be assertive." And socialism?

"Democracy means fair elections, a valid and reliable choice of government." I can name a major world power where the that seems to have not been the case 8 years ago.

"You really think that Thailand is a democracy?"

Tell us about all the true democracies where the media, old guard, rich and famous, or the royalist elite do no control the selection of governments.

Even then, democracy does not equal liberty.

CHANG NOI

The facts about vote-buying and the patronage system

By Chang Noi

Published on September 1, 2008

Over the last couple of years, concern about vote-buying has been on the rise. The story goes like this. Voters upcountry are too poor and too poorly educated. Some sell their vote for cash on the spot. Others are victims of "the patronage system" and obey the instructions of a patron on how to vote in return for continuing patronage of various kinds.

The argument then continues: vote-buying and the patronage system mean that one-man/one-vote elections cannot work in Thailand. There needs to be some "Thai-style" alternative. This might be some corporatist method of representation such as the People's Alliance for Democracy proposed. It might mean diminishing the power of the elected Parliament, and returning more power to the bureaucracy.

According to legend, vote-buying began in spectacular fashion in Roi Et in 1981, engineered by people in the military. It then swelled over the following two decades. At election time, banks calculate massive rises in money circulation, and journalists love describing complex systems involving lotteries. A brilliant study done in Ayutthaya in the mid-1990s showed that monks, gunmen, and local officials were all deeply involved. Vote-buying is part of the political culture; of that there is little doubt.

But vote-buying is not a simple matter. The practice has been in place for a quarter-century. The number of elections has multiplied - for Parliament, Senate, municipality, provincial council, sub-district council, and so on. Thais have become some of the most experienced voters in the world. There has been a lot of learning about how to use the vote.

In the early history of Thai vote-buying, candidates thrust red notes into voters' hands in order to create an obligation. Once a voter had accepted the candidate's generosity, it would be bad manners not to repay that generosity when casting the vote. But this kind of naive transaction did not last long. By the mid-1990s, some voters would take money from every candidate, and then vote how they pleased. Others would only take from a candidate they had already decided to vote for, in order not to create an obligation.

Candidates still had to offer money. Not doing so would risk being branded as "ungenerous" and thus not worth electing. This was particularly true of candidates known to be rich. Vote-buying has thus become a bit like a candidate's deposit, distributed among the voters rather than paid to the authorities.

By the mid-1990s, vote negotiation had become much more complex than these simple retail transactions. Voters understood that candidates had the potential to offer much greater benefits than a few red notes. They could bring infrastructure spending and development projects with much more impact in the locality. Communities negotiated with candidates to promise scheme, and held them to their promises by the threat of withdrawing their vote at the next poll. Parliament created the "MPs fund" to enable sitting members to fulfil these promises. Lots of local infrastructure got built.

Since then, the system has shifted again. The 1997 constitution began a deliberate attempt to de-link this kind of local pork-barrel from national politics. The funding for local schemes has been substantially transferred from the national budget to local government. MPs have less influence on central-budget spending, and the MPs fund has disappeared. Elected provincial councils and municipalities now have big budgets. Many politicians have followed the money from national to local politics.

At the same time, the profile of the electorate has changed. The great 1986-1996 boom boosted incomes, and the 1997 bust only temporarily knocked them back. The expansion of secondary education in the 1980s began to work through to the electorate.

Then Thaksin changed the game in national politics. He promised some attractive re-distributive schemes, and delivered them. He centralised control over a fifth of the budget under his own executive authority, and toured the country dishing this out. The party and the prime minister became more important patrons than the local MP. Although the 2007 Constitution has reversed some of this change, the memory still dominates.

In the last couple of years, there have been studies of election practice in the North, Northeast, and South. The decision on casting a vote is now very complex and involves the party, the candidate, and the money. In the South, voters feel a strong emotional pull to vote Democrat. In the North and Northeast, Thaksin's schemes have created a strong pull towards the People Power Party/Thai Rak Thai. Yet the candidate also undergoes scrutiny. Is he a local person, someone close to us? Can he get things done, and does he have the track record to prove it? Is he reasonably honest? Does he have the right kind of friends? Finally, does he prove his generosity with a gift? Only candidates known to have modest wealth are excused this obligation, yet can still be elected on grounds of their social contribution.

At the recent poll, there did not seem to be much money around. After three elections in three years, pockets were empty. Candidates feared disqualification. The issue at stake in the poll was so stark, that a few hundred baht was not likely to matter.

So why the current panic about vote-buying? The upcountry electorate is richer, better educated, and more experienced at elections than ever before. In truth, the problem is not that upcountry voters don't know how to use their vote, and that the result is distorted by patronage and vote-buying. The problem is that they have learnt to use the vote only too well. Over four national polls, they have chosen very consistently and very rationally.

And, of course, that may be the real problem. Back when many upcountry electors sold their votes, and as a result their weight in national politics was zero, nobody cared so much about vote-buying. But now the electors have got smart, they have to be stopped. The bleating about vote-buying and patronage politics is simply an attempt to undermine electoral democracy because it seems to be working.

I believe the last 3 paragraphs may explain a lot of the reasons as to why we are in this ridiculous situation.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/01...on_30082102.php

Good Post. If Sondhis will prevails people won't have to worry about vote buying anymore . They just won't have a vote at all unless they are of the approved urban elite.

Yes. It will be a utopia. No demonstrations. No protests. No opposition. No strikes or shutdowns. And none of those pesky elections.