PAD Lay Siege On Government House, NBT TV Station

[pooket]

One aspect of Thaksin selling Man City to deep pocket Dubai is

he has suddenly freed up a BIG PILE O MONEY

to fight for his bigger pile down here.

That makes this all even scarier.

It is understandable that this is the conclusion by many, but I wonder. If the majority of my money was frozen in a country, I wouldn't be so quick as to risk what I had left by sending it into the same country, especially since everyone was looking for it so they could take this as well. Given that Thaksin et. al. have expensive tastes and his trusted nominee has not yet delivered, it would be a very big gamble.

The Taksin's have VERY expensive tastes...this is just some spending money for them to get through the tough times. Also, I'm not from England, but I was wondering if there would be some pressure from the "powers that be" over there for him to get the heck out of the beloved institution of football. (English members please enlighten me and share your thoughts) I could be wrong, but in the US, I don't think that people who jump bail are allowed to own professional sports teams.

Thaksin no longer owns a professional sports team, in case you haven't already noticed...

Yes, I had noticed. That is the complete and total reason I posted this.

Let me explain it to you so you can comprehend:

"spending money for them to get through the tough times" = the money they got from selling the team to the Dubai people.

Did I miss something?

Are all Newbies treated this way?

[onethailand]

Just saw some video on Channel 3 - the number of DAAD supporters has risen dramatically - but strangely, the great majority of them were NOT wearing red! Guess they haven't had enough time to print up more shirts...

I know what colors I am not wearing tomorrow.

[thaigene2]

2. The Bangkoko PAD movement is a huge movement like those of other 'popular revolutions' (e.g. Philippines, Poland, etc) that sweeps up people from all walks of life and is a legitimate body to force and elected Government from office. Conclusion: First, TRT and PPP were popularly elected Governments with the former enjoying a huge majority - these other examples involved unrepresentative military governments or other styles of dicatorships (e.g. communist).

for the record, Marcos was freely elected into office... things soured, but he was again elected into office.

He was neither a "unrepresentative military government" nor a "communist".

He was, however, a "dictator"... an elected one who developed into that role after democracy voted him in initially... same, same as square-head... there's more than a few direct similarities between the two.

OK - perhaps you're correct right-winger, let's have an appointed 'Democracy' of people or 'stars' with pedigree...hear, hear...pass the Pimms old boy!

[kurtgruen]

Yes. This is so surreal. A bunch of rich people sitting in the mud listening to protest style music and wailing in support of installing a military government.

I don't know where the idea came from that it is elitist and a bunch of rich people in the PAD? I wouldn't call the Unions supporting this movement "a bunch of rich people". They are just working people, trying to earn a living, while having their rights protected. The only people, whom I know personally, that went to the rally, are definitely far from rich. Aside from one restaurant owner, I know, that went to the demonstration, who owns a medium size restaurant (not a noodle stand, but not the Riverside either), all the others I know are all poor working people.

Granted, it is a small sample of people who went, but common...lets talk about Union support for a minute. I have been a Union member for all my adult life. Most Union brothers and sisters are much easier painted with the "Socialist Horde" brush, than being called a bunch of rich people.

The PAD is supported from all walks of society, I think. Probably mostly by educated people, would be my guess.

Now I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know what the outcome will be, if the PAD gets it's wish and the Thaksin/Samak government falls, but seeing all the corruption charges in the courts against both Thaksin (who still seems to be pulling a lot of Samaks strings) and also against the new PPP government and its allies, who have been accused (and I believe rightly so)of vote buying and their party executive being involved in vote buying (which under the new constitution should disolve their party), I can only see things getting better, not worse, if this corrupt government falls.

A lot of people in this forum seem to paint the PAD as the enemy of the poor and I dont' see it that way at all. I've seen former PM Thaskin and his TRT (now PP Party) as the enemy of the poor, because they threw the poor just enough crumbs, so they didn't think they would revolt. A grossly underfunded 30 Baht scheme... a money lending scheme in which a lot of the poor have now lost their homes and land. (Telling them they can borrow money against their home or land for three years with no interest and no payments and that after three years it will all come due...most of the poor and uneducated didn't even understand what would happen to them and the rest of them where too poor to have a choice)

Sorry, but I still have faith in the goodness of people. I believe that things can get better with a different government. Now granted, I may be wrong, but there is a good chance that things will get better.

So many people coming out to demonstrate and risking their life for change, is a great thing, I think. If this government falls as a result of this, it will show that people do have power.

Anyways, it's about Thailand and Thai People and their wishes. May they get what they wish for :-)

[h90]

PAD take away official documents senior official

The People's Alliance for Democracy seized all the documents involving hiring, procurement and purchase of government projects kept inside the Government, PM's Office Permanent Secretary Chulayuth Hiranyawasit said Monday.

He added that the officials from his agency went into the Government House to bring some documents out so that they can continue working. They found that those documents had been taken by the PAD.

The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30082200

----------------------------------------------------

How can PAD just so blatantly get away with this? I'm not a fan of PPP, but am becoming even less of a fan of PAD (though I cheered them on in my own way in 2006). Their being able to get away with so much with so little punishment means to me that they feel protected by someone very very very high up. Maybe this is obvious to everyone else, as I have been known to be a little dense at times. I'm all for a good act of civil disobedience and non-destructive protest, but the PAD has taken things to ridiculous levels and I wonder why it has been condoned the way it has, so far....

Aanother nail in PAD's coffin.

Hopefully somebody will get fed up with this and allow the police to do their Job instead of keeping them hamstrung because of overblown accusations of police brutality on Friday.

People need to be made aware that things have changed alot since 1992. For crowd control there are a lot more tools that the police can use that are not lethal and keeps injuries to a minimum.

Run off all the PAD on the outside of the goverment house compound secure the gates cut the utilities

and only allow people out and not let anything or anybody inside.

That will be the nail in other coffins, if there are clear informations about corruption in this documents.

IF it is so, can you legally throw around accusations with illegally obtained documents? The only way finally to ever uncover the ongoing government scams.

Anyway, up to now it's still just talk from PM's Office Permanent Secretary Chulayuth Hiranyawasit, probably involved himself in a scam or two already. Nothing but mudslinging without proof so far, let s see what else they come forward with on this. NBT will be all over it like Oprah on a glazed ham.

in case the PAD loose....."you give us pardon....we don't speak about the documents" in the simple form...but a lot variations possible.....

legal--illegal....we are in Thailand, at the moment it is even legal to stay there at the government house.

[h90]

From the Bangkokpost

Among the true believers

CHADAMAS CHINMANEEVONG

Samak Sundaravej is never at a loss for words. ''PAD? They are just a bunch of gangsters, a street mob,'' says the fiery prime minister.

But walk among the thousands of people who pledge allegiance to the PAD and one sees a more nuanced picture, with middle-aged office workers cheering alongside elderly housewives, while wealthy socialites chat with singers and actors.

Why have these people come to sleep on the streets, endure dust and rain, fierce winds and poor sanitation under the PAD banner? Why are they willing to risk life and limb in an idealistic, but possibly futile attempt to overthrow an elected government?

When rank-and-file members listen to PAD leaders' briefings on how to cope with tear gas or pressure from the plastic shields of riot police, what are they thinking?

A 56-year-old motorcycle garage owner, who gave his name as Pongsakorn, said he was ready to die and spill blood for the country.

''This would be honour for my family. If the solution is violence, I believe that people here are ready,'' he said seriously. ''Today, bad guys gain encouragement because good people sit around. So, we must help together.''

Mr Pongsakorn journeyed from Chanthaburi with his friends. They have slept in tents on the sidewalk for three days. All watched ASTV, PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul's TV station, for months before coming to Bangkok last week.

Another PAD sympathiser, a female retiree, said plainly that she felt she was fighting for the future of Thailand.

''I am here because I am fighting for the country, not for Khun Sondhi or Khun Chamlong [srimuang] like many people said,'' she says, her Gucci sunglasses askew as she runs along with the crowd. ''It's too bad there are so few students today. I think idealism is missing among today's younger generation.''

Truly representative of the Thai population. I don't think anyone could have highlighted the elitist nature of the PADisters better. Many thanks.

Yes. This is so surreal. A bunch of rich people sitting in the mud listening to protest style music and wailing in support of installing a military government.

They labor unions are a bunch of rich people

[RadioCityMike]

Yes. This is so surreal. A bunch of rich people sitting in the mud listening to protest style music and wailing in support of installing a military government.

I don't know where the idea came from that it is elitist and a bunch of rich people in the PAD? I wouldn't call the Unions supporting this movement "a bunch of rich people". They are just working people, trying to earn a living, while having their rights protected. The only people, whom I know personally, that went to the rally, are definitely far from rich. Aside from one restaurant owner, I know, that went to the demonstration, who owns a medium size restaurant (not a noodle stand, but not the Riverside either), all the others I know are all poor working people.

Granted, it is a small sample of people who went, but common...lets talk about Union support for a minute. I have been a Union member for all my adult life. Most Union brothers and sisters are much easier painted with the "Socialist Horde" brush, than being called a bunch of rich people.

The PAD is supported from all walks of society, I think. Probably mostly by educated people, would be my guess.

Now I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know what the outcome will be, if the PAD gets it's wish and the Thaksin/Samak government falls, but seeing all the corruption charges in the courts against both Thaksin (who still seems to be pulling a lot of Samaks strings) and also against the new PPP government and its allies, who have been accused (and I believe rightly so)of vote buying and their party executive being involved in vote buying (which under the new constitution should disolve their party), I can only see things getting better, not worse, if this corrupt government falls.

A lot of people in this forum seem to paint the PAD as the enemy of the poor and I dont' see it that way at all. I've seen former PM Thaskin and his TRT (now PP Party) as the enemy of the poor, because they threw the poor just enough crumbs, so they didn't think they would revolt. A grossly underfunded 30 Baht scheme... a money lending scheme in which a lot of the poor have now lost their homes and land. (Telling them they can borrow money against their home or land for three years with no interest and no payments and that after three years it will all come due...most of the poor and uneducated didn't even understand what would happen to them and the rest of them where too poor to have a choice)

Sorry, but I still have faith in the goodness of people. I believe that things can get better with a different government. Now granted, I may be wrong, but there is a good chance that things will get better.

So many people coming out to demonstrate and risking their life for change, is a great thing, I think. If this government falls as a result of this, it will show that people do have power.

Anyways, it's about Thailand and Thai People and their wishes. May they get what they wish for :-)

I think it is difficult to deny that the Isan and poor areas of the country see TRT/PPP as their champion. PAD seems to draw their support from Bangkok and other more affluent areas. It is understandable that this appears to be part of the rich and middle classes trying to stop or slow the flow of welfare and populist government policies. There may also be factions of PAD that feel like they did not receive their share of previous corruption so they hope to dissolve the present government in the hopes they will benefit from future corruption. In any case, I think it would be far better to work within the present government framework and make every attempt to root out corruption and get better leaders elected. PAD has shown they have the power to effect change. They should use that power to make the government and the country better and not to install a military appointed government. Like you, I also wish the best for the country.

[onethailand]

Nothing to do with you being a newbie.

The Taksin's have VERY expensive tastes...this is just some spending money for them to get through the tough times. Also, I'm not from England, but I was wondering if there would be some pressure from the "powers that be" over there for him to get the heck out of the beloved institution of football. (English members please enlighten me and share your thoughts) I could be wrong, but in the US, I don't think that people who jump bail are allowed to own professional sports teams.

1. Was, not would be.

2. Were allowed, not are allowed.

"spending money for them to get through the tough times" = the money they got from selling the team to the Dubai people.

Did I miss something?

Abu Dhabi. Not Dubai.

Welcome to Thaivisa.

[geriatrickid]

I wouldn't call the Unions supporting this movement "a bunch of rich people". They are just working people, trying to earn a living, while having their rights protected.

May I suggest you consider past history where unions are often corrupted and manipulated to act in a manner that supports certain groups? Need some examples? How about the Mafia's control of unions in Las Vegas to ensure control of the Mafia's financial interests? The Teamsters union once lost a fellow named Jimmy Hoffa. How about the use of unions to achieve factions of the Labour party's agenda in the UK. It's one of the reasons people got fed up and voted for Maggie Thatcher. How about the International Seafarers Union in Canada with its past? I sincerely doubt that the unions involved in these protests put these non-union related actions to a free vote by the union members. Just as some union leaders have been in the pocket of criminals or business interests in other countries, I believe that is the case here. Being a big union leader in Thailand doesn't remove one from the sphere of influence peddling and corruption. I think it insteads makes for a lucrative money making opportunity. Perhaps that is why some of the ethical international unions are keeping their distance from their union brothers and sisters in Thailand. I also doubt you will see these international unions that have fought for democracy and transparency to come out with support for anyone espousing the denial of such concepts.

[kurtgruen]

Just another quick comment about the Union support of the PAD....

I've walked picket lines and I've also organized a factory in the past. (HPI Beverage LTD Coquitlam, BC) Being in a union in Thailand is having the minimum standard of living everyone should have. These people fought hard for their rights in the past (it is very scary starting a union in this country) and now they are supporting PAD, who a lot of you call Rich and Elitists.

In my eyes, you really don't make any sense, calling the PAD Elitist. So what, if there are a few rich people in the crowd, supporting PAD. Buddha was a rich prince, before he became Buddha. Just because a few of them have money, doesn't mean they don't care for their country and for ALL the people of Thailand.

These people are all risking their lives. Back in the 1992 Demonstrations, Samak was on the Government side, when the government slaughtered demonstators. Yes, the government has practiced restraint so far, I agree, but nobody knew that, when they first took over government house. I believe that most people who where there demonstrating during the first couple of days, went there knowing, that they might die or get seriously hurt doing so. They have my respect!

Those who wanted to go demonstrate, but didn't, because their whole family depends on them being alive and being the breadwinner for their family, have my respect, too. Not everyone who wanted to be there, ended up there, but the PAD has won over the hearts of many people, I think. So far, I only see the PAD fighting against corruption, the best way they know how.

Sorry, I don't believe that Khun Sondhi and the other PAD leaders are just doing this for money or power. Most people don't risk their lives like this in demonstrations for money or power. I choose to believe that they care about Thailand and it's people.

[Johpa]

Corruption is king at nearly every level of society here.

How true at many levels and be thankful they seldom teach propositional logic in the schools anymore.

[jbowman1993]

not unlike the PAD, this thread has also lost the plot...

[Moonrakers]

Yes. This is so surreal. A bunch of rich people sitting in the mud listening to protest style music and wailing in support of installing a military government.

I don't know where the idea came from that it is elitist and a bunch of rich people in the PAD? I wouldn't call the Unions supporting this movement "a bunch of rich people". They are just working people, trying to earn a living, while having their rights protected. The only people, whom I know personally, that went to the rally, are definitely far from rich. Aside from one restaurant owner, I know, that went to the demonstration, who owns a medium size restaurant (not a noodle stand, but not the Riverside either), all the others I know are all poor working people.

Granted, it is a small sample of people who went, but common...lets talk about Union support for a minute. I have been a Union member for all my adult life. Most Union brothers and sisters are much easier painted with the "Socialist Horde" brush, than being called a bunch of rich people.

The PAD is supported from all walks of society, I think. Probably mostly by educated people, would be my guess.

Now I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know what the outcome will be, if the PAD gets it's wish and the Thaksin/Samak government falls, but seeing all the corruption charges in the courts against both Thaksin (who still seems to be pulling a lot of Samaks strings) and also against the new PPP government and its allies, who have been accused (and I believe rightly so)of vote buying and their party executive being involved in vote buying (which under the new constitution should disolve their party), I can only see things getting better, not worse, if this corrupt government falls.

A lot of people in this forum seem to paint the PAD as the enemy of the poor and I dont' see it that way at all. I've seen former PM Thaskin and his TRT (now PP Party) as the enemy of the poor, because they threw the poor just enough crumbs, so they didn't think they would revolt. A grossly underfunded 30 Baht scheme... a money lending scheme in which a lot of the poor have now lost their homes and land. (Telling them they can borrow money against their home or land for three years with no interest and no payments and that after three years it will all come due...most of the poor and uneducated didn't even understand what would happen to them and the rest of them where too poor to have a choice)

Sorry, but I still have faith in the goodness of people. I believe that things can get better with a different government. Now granted, I may be wrong, but there is a good chance that things will get better.

So many people coming out to demonstrate and risking their life for change, is a great thing, I think. If this government falls as a result of this, it will show that people do have power.

Anyways, it's about Thailand and Thai People and their wishes. May they get what they wish for :-)

Good post mate.

My misses, despite being far for rich also wants to join the PAD rally, the only things stopping her is myself being to concerned for her safety, and her concern for our daughter.

People talking about Samaks/Thakins caring for the poor and how the PAD, democrats or whoever's care for the poor BORE me. You hit the nail on the head with regards to the money lending schemes, and maybe somebody could be kind enough to dig out the reports showing that Thaksin's cronies are the ones purchasing homes and land from the indebited farmers at a discount price.

Yet those very same farmers are still in support of Thaks/TRT/PPP/Samak for lending that money (Debt) to them in the first place, which indicates the extent that these people have being abused and taken advantage of.

I hope that the PPP/TRT/Thaksin/Samak and all associated with that Den should be kicked out and never be allowed near politics again.

But who should take over???..... Anybody???..... Does anybody have any idea about who should take over if/when the PPP is overthrown? And in what for should the new party be in, Democratic just for the sake of democracy because it works in the West? Well that is where the system breaks down in Thailand, it is almost a case of "Better the devil you know"

Some bright spark out there must have the answer, and I am not that Bright spark. And for me at least the PAD are putting forward suggestions, but why oh why has the governmant/Samak not countered these suggestions from the PAD with a reasonable objection and counter suggestions instead of spouting crap about them being democratically elected blah blah whilst attempting to do things such as change the constitution without referendum? And HOW ON EARTH is Samak wanting to change the constitution (Without referundum) to only allow demonstrations to hold rallies with prior permission from the government democratic? . Such a policy is bordeline communist.

I think that Sam either does not give a shit about the constitution, or he just does not understand the principle of having a constitution.

It is unfortunte that Sam does not understand one concept of leadership either, in that no matter what happens, and no matter what others may do and what ever may go wrong. If something does go wrong then it is ALWAYS the fault of the leader.

[RadioCityMike]

I hope this can be resolved soon. As it stands now, the PAD leaders and supporters are still electable. I fear that if things continue to deteriorate, PAD will receive much of the blame and no one associated with PAD will have enough support to get elected. It certainly would not be a very healthy democracy if such a powerful group wastes all of their political clout on a failed attempt to get a military appointed government. If PAD is successful in getting a military appointed government. then I guess the Thai people will need to take that up with the next group of protesters.

Replaced "we" with "the Thai people"

Edited September 1, 2008 by RadioCityMike

[DP25]

These people are all risking their lives. Back in the 1992 Demonstrations, Samak was on the Government side, when the government slaughtered demonstators. Yes, the government has practiced restraint so far, I agree, but nobody knew that, when they first took over government house. I believe that most people who where there demonstrating during the first couple of days, went there knowing, that they might die or get seriously hurt doing so. They have my respect!

I think the only reason Samak showing restraint is do to the cameras everywhere. If this were before the days of cellphone cameras, the internet, and instant global news channels, they would have been have smashed with no regard for casualties.

[Moonrakers]

I hope this can be resolved soon. As it stands now, the PAD leaders and supporters are still electable. I fear that if things continue to deteriorate, PAD will receive much of the blame and no one associated with PAD will have enough support to get elected. It certainly would not be a very healthy democracy if such a powerful group wastes all of their political clout on a failed attempt to get a military appointed government. If PAD is successful in getting a military appointed government. then I guess we will need to take that up with the next group of protesters.

Mike, you are another poster getting confused with the fact that the PAD is not a political party.

However your text that I have highlighted sadly is very true.

[basjke]

PAD take away official documents senior official

The People's Alliance for Democracy seized all the documents involving hiring, procurement and purchase of government projects kept inside the Government, PM's Office Permanent Secretary Chulayuth Hiranyawasit said Monday.

This might be a gods gift for some people in the current and past goverment if those documents never show up again.Could be someone had the bright idea to keep that door unlocked considering the circumstances.

[PaddyThai]

I wonder is this one of the most vewed and replied to posts on TV.

[thaigene2]

Yes I also thought the Union thing uniting with the enemy-pro-facist PAD was also so striking..

Then I recalled the Teamsters, Jimmy Hoffa and the other gangster involvement in the development of unions in the US and it all became MUCH clearer - Khow Jai? Kapische?

Edited September 1, 2008 by thaigene2

[h90]

Yes I also thought the Union thing uniting with the enemy-pro-facist PAD was also so striking..

Then I recalled the Teamsters, Jimmy Hoffa and the other gangster involvement in the development of unions in the US and it all became MUCH clearer - Khow Jai? Kapische?

learn some history.....

[Tony Clifton]

DAAD are marching towards Makawan bridge, escorted by police in front.

[thaigene2]

Corruption is king at nearly every level of society here.

How true at many levels and be thankful they seldom teach propositional logic in the schools anymore.

How true that is. By the way has anyone seen the classic film on DVD/VDO (in English) Wizard of Oz for sale here? I just love that song..."We're off to see the Wizard, the wonderful wizard of Oz...because, because, because, because, Becuase !! BECAUSE of the wonderful things he does.." But I haven't been able to find it though - I've heard it may be available at Fortune Town - no luck so far. I'm determined to show it to my family - sure you might understand. Anyway, one can keep looking - just like Dorothy.. (also the Grinch that stole xmas would be good..)

Edited September 1, 2008 by thaigene2

[Nampeung]

I have been OOA so haven't had time to read all of this massive thread but just wanted to say to those out there criticising the PAD that it must mean an awful lot that utility providers, rail and air providers and all the others are supporting what I see as a just cause for the future of this country.

Kudos also for restraint on behalf of the police and military - altho not quite sure who is holding that part together

[RadioCityMike]

I hope this can be resolved soon. As it stands now, the PAD leaders and supporters are still electable. I fear that if things continue to deteriorate, PAD will receive much of the blame and no one associated with PAD will have enough support to get elected. It certainly would not be a very healthy democracy if such a powerful group wastes all of their political clout on a failed attempt to get a military appointed government. If PAD is successful in getting a military appointed government. then I guess we will need to take that up with the next group of protesters.

Mike, you are another poster getting confused with the fact that the PAD is not a political party.

However your text that I have highlighted sadly is very true.

Sorry that I did not explain myself better. When you are running for elected office, your background is carefully reviewed. Some people will consider where you were born, who your parents are, what schools or universities that you have attended. I am sure that any protest group that you were associated with would be considered. PAD is a large group. I am sure some of them must have political ambitions.

Changed "implications" to "ambitions"

Edited September 1, 2008 by RadioCityMike

[tropo]

Referendum on PAD interests Justice Minister

(BangkokPost.com) - Justice Minister and People Power party (PPP) deputy leader Sompong Amornwiwat said on Monday that holding a public referendum on the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD)’s seizure of Government House is an interesting option because the government also wants to know how the public think about the situation.

If 40 million out of 60 million Thais vote in support of the anti-government group’s action, the government would have to do something, Mr Sompong said.

It's incredible that these people don't even know the population of their own country, and make that fact public.

Out of 65.5 million Thais, only about 45 - 47 million would be of voting age.

[onethailand]

DAAD are marching towards Makawan bridge, escorted by police in front.

Tony, is that on TV?

[thaigene2]

Yes. This is so surreal. A bunch of rich people sitting in the mud listening to protest style music and wailing in support of installing a military government.

I don't know where the idea came from that it is elitist and a bunch of rich people in the PAD? I wouldn't call the Unions supporting this movement "a bunch of rich people". They are just working people, trying to earn a living, while having their rights protected. The only people, whom I know personally, that went to the rally, are definitely far from rich. Aside from one restaurant owner, I know, that went to the demonstration, who owns a medium size restaurant (not a noodle stand, but not the Riverside either), all the others I know are all poor working people.

Granted, it is a small sample of people who went, but common...lets talk about Union support for a minute. I have been a Union member for all my adult life. Most Union brothers and sisters are much easier painted with the "Socialist Horde" brush, than being called a bunch of rich people.

The PAD is supported from all walks of society, I think. Probably mostly by educated people, would be my guess.

Now I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know what the outcome will be, if the PAD gets it's wish and the Thaksin/Samak government falls, but seeing all the corruption charges in the courts against both Thaksin (who still seems to be pulling a lot of Samaks strings) and also against the new PPP government and its allies, who have been accused (and I believe rightly so)of vote buying and their party executive being involved in vote buying (which under the new constitution should disolve their party), I can only see things getting better, not worse, if this corrupt government falls.

A lot of people in this forum seem to paint the PAD as the enemy of the poor and I dont' see it that way at all. I've seen former PM Thaskin and his TRT (now PP Party) as the enemy of the poor, because they threw the poor just enough crumbs, so they didn't think they would revolt. A grossly underfunded 30 Baht scheme... a money lending scheme in which a lot of the poor have now lost their homes and land. (Telling them they can borrow money against their home or land for three years with no interest and no payments and that after three years it will all come due...most of the poor and uneducated didn't even understand what would happen to them and the rest of them where too poor to have a choice)

Sorry, but I still have faith in the goodness of people. I believe that things can get better with a different government. Now granted, I may be wrong, but there is a good chance that things will get better.

So many people coming out to demonstrate and risking their life for change, is a great thing, I think. If this government falls as a result of this, it will show that people do have power.

Anyways, it's about Thailand and Thai People and their wishes. May they get what they wish for :-)

I think it is difficult to deny that the Isan and poor areas of the country see TRT/PPP as their champion. PAD seems to draw their support from Bangkok and other more affluent areas. It is understandable that this appears to be part of the rich and middle classes trying to stop or slow the flow of welfare and populist government policies. There may also be factions of PAD that feel like they did not receive their share of previous corruption so they hope to dissolve the present government in the hopes they will benefit from future corruption. In any case, I think it would be far better to work within the present government framework and make every attempt to root out corruption and get better leaders elected. PAD has shown they have the power to effect change. They should use that power to make the government and the country better and not to install a military appointed government. Like you, I also wish the best for the country.

But they won't since their leaders aren't at all interested in some kind of consultative people power - they are only interested in what you alluded to earlier. An an end to one-person-one-vote. Welcome to facism mein freund..Zeig Heil!! But rest assured you will still be able to shop at Paragon and get there for 2 bucks in an under-paid taxi and arrive in Bangkok in an ender-fared train - WHY ARE THE UNIONS ON THE SIDE OF FASCIST PAD???

[RadioCityMike]

Yes. This is so surreal. A bunch of rich people sitting in the mud listening to protest style music and wailing in support of installing a military government.

I don't know where the idea came from that it is elitist and a bunch of rich people in the PAD? I wouldn't call the Unions supporting this movement "a bunch of rich people". They are just working people, trying to earn a living, while having their rights protected. The only people, whom I know personally, that went to the rally, are definitely far from rich. Aside from one restaurant owner, I know, that went to the demonstration, who owns a medium size restaurant (not a noodle stand, but not the Riverside either), all the others I know are all poor working people.

Granted, it is a small sample of people who went, but common...lets talk about Union support for a minute. I have been a Union member for all my adult life. Most Union brothers and sisters are much easier painted with the "Socialist Horde" brush, than being called a bunch of rich people.

The PAD is supported from all walks of society, I think. Probably mostly by educated people, would be my guess.

Now I don't have a crystal ball, so I don't know what the outcome will be, if the PAD gets it's wish and the Thaksin/Samak government falls, but seeing all the corruption charges in the courts against both Thaksin (who still seems to be pulling a lot of Samaks strings) and also against the new PPP government and its allies, who have been accused (and I believe rightly so)of vote buying and their party executive being involved in vote buying (which under the new constitution should disolve their party), I can only see things getting better, not worse, if this corrupt government falls.

A lot of people in this forum seem to paint the PAD as the enemy of the poor and I dont' see it that way at all. I've seen former PM Thaskin and his TRT (now PP Party) as the enemy of the poor, because they threw the poor just enough crumbs, so they didn't think they would revolt. A grossly underfunded 30 Baht scheme... a money lending scheme in which a lot of the poor have now lost their homes and land. (Telling them they can borrow money against their home or land for three years with no interest and no payments and that after three years it will all come due...most of the poor and uneducated didn't even understand what would happen to them and the rest of them where too poor to have a choice)

Sorry, but I still have faith in the goodness of people. I believe that things can get better with a different government. Now granted, I may be wrong, but there is a good chance that things will get better.

So many people coming out to demonstrate and risking their life for change, is a great thing, I think. If this government falls as a result of this, it will show that people do have power.

Anyways, it's about Thailand and Thai People and their wishes. May they get what they wish for :-)

I think it is difficult to deny that the Isan and poor areas of the country see TRT/PPP as their champion. PAD seems to draw their support from Bangkok and other more affluent areas. It is understandable that this appears to be part of the rich and middle classes trying to stop or slow the flow of welfare and populist government policies. There may also be factions of PAD that feel like they did not receive their share of previous corruption so they hope to dissolve the present government in the hopes they will benefit from future corruption. In any case, I think it would be far better to work within the present government framework and make every attempt to root out corruption and get better leaders elected. PAD has shown they have the power to effect change. They should use that power to make the government and the country better and not to install a military appointed government. Like you, I also wish the best for the country.

But they won't since their leaders aren't at all interested in some kind of consultative people power - they are only interested in what you alluded to earlier. An an end to one-person-one-vote. Welcome to facism mein freund..Zeig Heil!! But rest assured you will still be able to shop at Paragon and get there for 2 bucks in an under-paid taxi and arrive in Bangkok in an ender-fared train - WHY ARE THE UNIONS ON THE SIDE OF FASCIST PAD???

Whoa. Easy does it. Take a breath, sit down, relax. I think the most they can get is a new election. In that event, the government will probably be more liberal, not less.

[onethailand]

TNN showing video live, though they don't seem to be at the center of the action. NBT only has reports by phone at present. Everybody is grabbing motorcycle helmets and most people have some sort of stick in hand.

Edited September 1, 2008 by onethailand

[kurtgruen]

Not sure if anyone has adressed this yet, but when they are talking about the DAAD coming up with a 1000 people or so to counter protest against the PAD, I'm sure that most of you realize that these so called DAAD supporters are in fact paid protesters, who get trucked in to make it look like somebody would actually fight for the current government. The people who drive the trucks get paid and so do all the DAAD protesters.

This is not the case at the PAD rally. As far as I know, all the PAD protesters are legit and are not being paid to be there.

The PAD is gaining a lot of support here in the North, which used to be a real Thaksin stronghold. Many of the locals, who once loved Thaksin, now talk Pro PAD. A lot of them never liked Samak to start with.

So when I hear about the PAD loosing public support, because of this past week, it certainly is not happening like that here. Our little town is full of PAD supporters and Samak haters. (to be fair, not everyone in our town, but the numbers are growing all the time.)

Be interesting to see what will happen with the treason charges tomorrow. I think they will get thrown out. If anyone should be charged with Treason, it should be Samak, for trying to change the constitution without a referendum, just so his crooked party can survive.

Anyways, I'm off to bed. It was sure nice to read some intelligent posts for a change, though.

Cheers

Your Local 31 Teamster and supporter of the PAD

P.S. and yes, I supported the Hoffa/Zimmerman slate, too. lol