Id requirement in Thailand

[udon]

Again, you Doubting Thomas, why not contact Suan Phlu and get it straight from the horses mouth.

AFAIK, it's not the Immi cops enforcing this law, it's the street plods, trying to scam us.

I don't know anyone who has been given an on the spot receipt for the amount handed over, wheter it be 200 or 2000bt.

A yank mate went to SP and was told that street Plod is causing embarrassment to the Immi cops for enforcing this law, Immi's policy is live and let live unless the foreign person has done something to come to their notice.

[udon]

From the Asia Bugle 17/11/04 www.baronbonk.com

Talking to a Bangkok Taxi driver the other night he was complaining about the police. It seems that taxis are now regularly stopped by police and they find it easier, and quicker, to pay a couple of hundred Baht and be on their way. In addition the Old Bill stopping taxis carrying a farang will ask to see the farangs passport. Do not have one and a 2,000 Baht fine is demanded: or a trip to the cop shop. Similarly more and more farangs I talk to are being targeted for littering fines: whether they have or not seems irrelevant. The option is pay the fine, or go to the station. On the whole the Peelers involved do not want you to go to the station: they want the money from you. So calling their bluff normally works. But if you are not carrying your passport, or are in a hurry, do you want to take the risk that your bluff will be called? The main thing to do though is prepare yourself by making certain you do not pull out a full wallet but a few scrawny 100 Baht notes. Then say this is all I have! Of course the reason this is happening is because the Plod are not getting their cut from the bars. The Chairman seems to think that the people currently living off bribes are going to take a pay cut: dream on: they will just find another racket! And the way this is going the city of the angels will soon be known as the shakedown city.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Despite being told that "it is the law", I have never seen anyone produce a copy of the law that states a foreigner must carry his or her passport at all times. Has anyone on the board actually seen this law in black and white? If so, I for one would be interested to know the name of the law and the relevant provision. I have spoken to several Thai lawyers who all say the same thing - there is no such law.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is a Ministerial Requirement ( Interior Minister ) Not a law.

[udon]

It is a Ministerial Requirement ( Interior Minister ) Not a law.

Ummm........ So, what is the difererence if a fine is involved?

I've yet to hear of anyone calling Plod's bluff and going to see Plod's boss and getting a rec't.

[lopburi3]

Despite being told that "it is the law", I have never seen anyone produce a copy of the law that states a foreigner must carry his or her passport at all times. Has anyone on the board actually seen this law in black and white? If so, I for one would be interested to know the name of the law and the relevant provision. I have spoken to several Thai lawyers who all say the same thing - there is no such law.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is a Ministerial Requirement ( Interior Minister ) Not a law.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe the law has and is photo ID required as for any Thai citizen over the age of 15. Requests prior to 9-11 were probably not authorized but as most believe a way to make money. In the post 9-11 period police have taken official attitude that a passport is required and have so stated. As with most things it matters a whole lot more how laws are enforced than what the laws may be. Now that police have apparently been told to check passports, I carry. But I would not be paranoid about it and would leave with hotel or Embassy when need be. There is really no good reason to make life harder for yourself or the police who are doing their jobs. It may even save someone's life if they can get more pro active with this new policy.

[PeaceBlondie]

It is a Ministerial Requirement ( Interior Minister ) Not a law.

Ummm........ So, what is the difererence if a fine is involved?

I've yet to hear of anyone calling Plod's bluff and going to see Plod's boss and getting a rec't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ubon, you've made two good points. Even if it's a ministerial requirement, and not a law, it should be printed or gazzeted, yes? And nobody can find a copy of the printed or gazzeted requirement, yes?

Also, your point is that in most cases, the farang is usually in trouble already for breaking a law. I don't mean the phony charge of littering or the initial problem of not having a passport, but maybe drunk and disorderly, being in a bar fight, arguing over payment to a prostitute, etc. Then they can 'throw the book at you' for whatever charges they wish, and they surely need positive ID. Your passport is the most positive ID. I carry the mini photocopy in my wallet, along with current visa and entry stamp, but I've never been asked. Never been stopped, even though I break trafffic laws about five times every day. But I don't get drunk or stoned, don't get in fights, spend most of my time as an ajarn, and always pay my bills.

If Bangkok's local cops are pulling people out of taxis simple because they don't have their passports, it's time to start publishing detailed accounts in the travel forums and tell people to visit Mexico City instead. The heat, pollution, and corruption levels are similar.

[samran]

Having worked for the Thai goverment, I know for a fact that laws take many years to come into being, from inception, through the drafting, vetting and eventually passing though the parliament.

This is the same in most democracies and Thailand is no different. If it is a ministerial order, then it is as good as a law. For the sake of efficency, ministers anywhere in the world are able to issue orders to change rules which are essentially administrative. (Eg, to change a parking find doesn't need parliament to approve it)

In my experience, even under Thai-Pumpkin-Thai (think about it..) and Dear Leader Thaksin, ministerial decisions made under the former Democrat government are still binding unless ammended.

[Whitey]

the US Embassy, upon request, will give you a certified copy of your passport and entry stamps if you are turning in an old passport to apply for a new one or even having any admendments made to it. I know because they did it for me when I asked.

Any two-bit beat cop who disputes it and tries to do something will prolly have himself called into a bigger office.

[Bobcat]

Indeed, it may be a ministerial requirement or regulation. Like laws, ministerial regulations in Thailand are in written form and issued by the relevant Ministry from time t time. I am still curious - has anyone seen this ministerial regulation? Of course, I am well aware of the fact that this may be irrelevant if you're singled out by the police - but I still would like to see the requlation or requirement. I do not believe anyone on this board will be able to produce it.

[sua yai]

A couple of years ago, two Tourist Police walked into the bar where I was enjoying my first beer of the day.

I've known them for a while and they were really apologetic, explaining that main immigration in Bangkok had asked them to check on the status of all farangs who'd been living in town for a while.

After the usual questions - "how long have you been in Thailand?" "4 yrs"

"What do you do here?

I play golf and drink beer.

Subject of passport. "Do I have it with me?"

"No, but I can go home and produce it for you in 3 mins. Would you like me to do that?"

"Yes".

So, I did and there were no problems. Everytrhing was in order and after more profuse apologies from them, they departed.

I still say hello to them when I see them. Never had trouble again.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A couple of years ago, two Tourist Police walked into the bar where I was enjoying my first beer of the day.

I've known them for a while and they were really apologetic, explaining that main immigration in Bangkok  had asked them to check on the status of all farangs who'd been living in town for a while.

After the usual questions - "how long have you been in Thailand?" "4 yrs"

"What do you do here?

I play golf and drink beer.

Subject of passport. "Do I have it with me?"

"No, but I can go home and produce it for you in 3 mins. Would you like me to do that?"

"Yes".

So, I did and there were no problems. Everytrhing was in order and after more profuse apologies from them, they departed.

I still say hello to them when I see them. Never had trouble again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

3 Minutes ... jeez ... do you live in the bar ?

[Bigmike]

Having worked for the Thai goverment, I know for a fact that laws take many years to come into being, from inception, through the drafting, vetting and eventually passing though the parliament.

This is the same in most democracies and Thailand is no different. If it is a ministerial order, then it is as good as a law. For the sake of efficency, ministers anywhere in the world are able to issue orders to change rules which are essentially administrative. (Eg, to change a parking find doesn't need parliament to approve it)

In my experience, even under Thai-Pumpkin-Thai (think about it..) and Dear Leader Thaksin, ministerial decisions made under the former Democrat government are still binding unless ammended.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

samaran.

Here in Australia no law that is passed in Parliament is law until it is gazetted, that means that it is published.

Bigmike.

[Axel]

This discussion is getting a bit too academic. Let's say it is correct that no written law exists that requires foreigners to carry a passport in lieu of an Thai ID-card, whch is obtainable to Thais only. Let's further say it is correct no rule is valid unless gazetted.

Now in practise: You are approached 1:00 a.m. by two fine officers in brown who ask you in perfect English "Hey you, passport!"

Now how do you convince them of your basic democratic rights of having no need to carry one since the relevant rules have not been published in the relevant gazette? I for one might have problems to find the right wording in Thai. May be English would help, like "Hey me, no need!" But then may be just showing a passport would make life easier.

Just a thought.

[samran]

Having worked for the Thai goverment, I know for a fact that laws take many years to come into being, from inception, through the drafting, vetting and eventually passing though the parliament.

This is the same in most democracies and Thailand is no different. If it is a ministerial order, then it is as good as a law. For the sake of efficency, ministers anywhere in the world are able to issue orders to change rules which are essentially administrative. (Eg, to change a parking find doesn't need parliament to approve it)

In my experience, even under Thai-Pumpkin-Thai (think about it..) and Dear Leader Thaksin, ministerial decisions made under the former Democrat government are still binding unless ammended.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

samaran.

Here in Australia no law that is passed in Parliament is law until it is gazetted, that means that it is published.

Bigmike.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bigmike, it is the same in Thailand. What we are talking about is a ministerial regulation. This is a different kettle of fish, and can be issued at anytime, if the minister has the power to under existing legislation to do so.

An example of a ministerial regulation (not about ID though) can be seen here http://www.dbd.go.th/eng/MR_section17.htm

You should be able to see from this ministerial order that a minister has the power to set rules and regulations pertaining to many areas, all of which do not need continual approval by parliament. To do so, would make the bureacracy move even slower.

[Bigmike]

samran I can see were you are coming from but in Australia a Federal Government Minister cannot pass a law on his own, it must go before Parliament. That is what Government legislation is all about. The whole topic of the thread was just a simple question but as some of the members suggested the law was passed by the Thai Government that foreigners must carry there Passports as a means of ID.

Bigmike.